I'm not trying to cause trouble here. I promise. I would just like to take a look - Biblically - at this subject. If we are to take the warnings of the Bible seriously, we must know the consequence we are being warned of. I know there are different interpretations, but I wanted to briefly give my side of the story.
I often hear that there is no way that you can be saved and then not be saved. I hear from the Once Saved Always Saved crowd that the Bible mentions nowhere that it's possible to lose your salvation. I've debated this subject with some in other blogs.
I thought I'd start the dialogue - if anyone wanted to defend their position.
I strongly believe that salvation IS conditional, and I believe that my position can be defended against the strongest agruments against it.
Now I'm going to level some of my strongest arguments againsts Once Saved Always Saved.
If you want to have a discussion on the subject - you don't have to pick apart every argument I put forth (although you can if you wish).
I'll not go through this in any sort of topical order. I'll just present some scriptures that seem to indicate salvation can be forfeited....
First
Matt 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Jesus is telling his disciples that, who happen to be in the grace of God as they follow Christ, that if they refuse to forgive others, God would not forgive them.
If you aren't forgiven, you aren't under grace.
It's quite simple really - they were under grace and Jesus warns them of a situation which would leave them in a state where they would not be under grace.
Matt 18:23-35
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
The above parable illustrates Jesus point in Matthew. We are forgiven of so much. An incredible amount of sin has been forgiven, that we had no hope of paying the debt for. By Jesus Christ - our sins are forgiven. But if we turn on another and will not forgive, we will relinquish the forgiveness we have received.
If you take this parable to mean anything else - I'd be interested to hear your interpretation. Keep in mind, the forgiveness of the debt was reversed. If the forgiveness of your debt is reversed, the payment of it will not simply be troubles and trials on earth (all go through that) - it will be a different thing altogether.
****Paul stated (to Christians in his letter to the Romans) a warning against yielding to a life of sin...
Rom 6:12-16
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
If we yield to sin. If we stop following Christ (even if we believe in Him, even if we told him we are sorry for our sin) and yield to sin. We are lost. We are the servants of sin. You are either the follower of the Lord or the follower of sin. Jesus said "Ye cannot serve two masters" - if you are following Christ - you have placed yourself in the grace of God. If you desert that - you are in line for eternal damnation.
Next - the writer of Hebrews gives a warning to ........CHRISTIANS. Not to sinners, but Christians. It should be intrinsically obvious that he is...
Heb 3:12-14
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
First, he calls them "brethren" - Then in verse 12 he tells them "take heed......lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the Living God"
* I would love to see someone depart from something they've never been attached to, but I've never seen it yet. I have never departed from Hawaii, because I've never been to Hawaii. These folks can't DEPART from the Living God, if they were never involved with the Living God.
In verse 14 he claims that we are made partakers of Christ "IF" we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast to the end! IF is not a long word, but it is the one that jumps out at me. If it said "because" instead of "if" - it would more or less solidify the O.S.A.S. point, but the fact is that it rest on the individual to continue in their confidence in Christ. If you don't - you are no longer in the condition that meets the requirements for His grace.
next........
2 Tim 2:11-13
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
This is in a personal letter to Timothy. Paul quotes a famous (in that time and region) saying. He says that (v 12) if we (the 'we' : at least including Paul and Timothy) deny him - he will deny us.
That's pretty plain and simple to me. If you deny the Lord, you will be denied.
The next verse (often used by the advocates of OSAS as they ignore the previous verse) doesn't state that Jesus will accept you no matter what. It says he cannot deny himself. He will do what He's promised or warned no matter what. Our faithfulness or unfaithfulness will not affect his at all.
Verse 13 cannot mean that no matter what we are saved. If it did it would be a direct contradiction to the previous verse and be nothing but confusion.
I think Jesus made it clear in John 15 that we can abide (or remain) in him or we may not remain in him....
15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. How can you expect to be a Christian while not remaining in Christ. And if it were impossible NOT to remain in Christ, why does he even exhort us to "abide" in Him?
And lastly.....
tell me A, B, or C.....how do I describe these people mentioned in 2 Peter....
2 Pet 2:19-21
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
A - sinners who were never saved and yet.......had one "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" who had to "once again" be "entangled therein""?
or are they
B - Currently Christians who's "latter end is worse than their first" - and would have been better off "not to have known the way of righteousness" who are described as a "sow returning to her own wallowing in the mire?
C - One time Christians who have returned to their former state of sinfulness and have left their faith in Christ for a life of sinful pleasure and a deathly consequence?
I choose C. I would like to know how either of the other answers can even be sensible.
I strongly believe against the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved. I don't bring it up to start an argument (though I love Biblical debate) but to cause us to not brush the warnings of God's Word aside as not eternally relevant.
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