Pastor Tim
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||November 21, 2007 at 5:51pm|email it|1033 reads
 

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Lara Leger
November 21, 2007 at 6:12pm

Mmmhmmm...my pastor just preached on the exact same thing this past Sunday, even putting the word "Apologetics" on the overhead, with the definition.  Too weird! 

The strange thing is that, back a few months ago, I was talking to this old "friend" on facebook, and  his brother is into studying different religions; actually took a university course of such.  And he went and said how Jesus didn't want to be worshipped, and He only came to earth to set an example.  So you can just imagine all the scriptures flying through my head!  I started spouting off scriptures to him, right, left and centre...then when I was done, I started upstairs for lunch, and I heard God say, "What are you doing?  I didn't call you to defend the faith, Lara.  I called you to tell people the good things I have done!"  Then He brought to my memory that story in the Gospels, about that blind guy who was healed by Jesus, and was brought before the Pharisees and Priests, and they kept getting in his face, and demanding to know more, and throwing comments out about Jesus, putting words into the guy's mouth.  All he said was (Lara memory paraphrase version-lol) "All this stuff you are saying, I know nothing of.  What I do know is that I was blind, and now I see."  So I went back to the computer, and I repented, and told the guy I had been prideful, and then I just told him the things God had done for me such as healed me of my "clinical" depression, restored my relationship with my dad, and made me no longer dependent upon relationships (I was a junkie)...and he came back with a soft answer...and it was done.  So we are suppose to know how to "defend" our faith, yes.  But there are situations where debating is fruitless and frustrating.  God told me not to do it; only to tell people my experience...but I know what you are saying is true...so I am utterly confused...lol. 

Pastor Tim
November 21, 2007 at 6:30pm
Lara,

You make a great point! Sometimes it is even inapprpariate for us to offer a defense on certain ocassions. Sometimes we just need to just reach out and love that person. Other times we simply offer a listening ear. Thus it is impertaive that we be lead by the Spirit. Each situation is handled differently.
Gene
November 21, 2007 at 7:16pm
PT, great blog (as usual).

Lara, you cut me to the quick!

We have the responsibility to defend the faith.  The words in Peter are absolutely clear on that.  but, what faith is it?  Are we trying to defend doctrines and principles?  Or are we trying to defend our decision to be a disciple of Jesus and follow his teachings - the principle of which is to love one another as he has shown us?

If we launch into tirades to "defend" we are being "offensive."  True faith does not need a defense.  Rather we need to be able to show our love and compassion as Christ has taught us - and explain why we do that.  In our lives and testimony we show our "defense."  Yet to do so, requires us to study God's Word and know what its teachings are.  Funny how you can't have one without the other. . . .
Pastor Tim
November 21, 2007 at 7:43pm
I like what you said Gene. "If we launch into tirades to "defend" we are being "offensive."

One of the key points of the passage in I Peter is to first set apart Christ as Lord in our hearts. Offering a defense is essentailly helping someone eliminate the objections that prevent him or her from coming to faith in Christ. Our primary purpose is to convert them to Jesus not an ideology. Doctrine is very important, but converting them to certain creeds is not our essential duty. It is introdcuing them to a loving Savior who will forgive their sins. 
Eric
November 21, 2007 at 8:11pm

απολογία is mentioned eight times?  You only listed seven ;)

I think I disagree with Lane's quote.  I can think of two arenas that are greater influences of a person's worldview than the university:  (1) television, and (2) the family. 

Additionally, I don't think Lane's suggestion is very practical, since secular universities are quite insular -- they are not receptive to Christians at all; in fact, Ben Stein is putting out a movie this February how Christians (well, those that subscribe to Intelligent Design) are being discriminated.  Reform in Christian universities?  Great!  But this minority number of universities will do little to change American culture.

Regarding Intelligent Design some more, the ID movement might be on a decline for the next ten years, if it revives at all.  The Dover, PA trial struck quite a serious blow to the movement, never mind how it was a poor decision, that's what the public saw, that's what the ID supporters saw, and now they're afraid to do the same thing in another city for fear of acruing millions of dollars in damages.  The PBS show aired last week, "Judgment Day" really did a lot of damage in the public eye, despite it having no real teeth.  The progress I saw in the last few years were set back quite a bit.  I have more hope for Creationism.  But maybe that's just my fickle feelings talking....

And at any rate, the Creationist movement is a grassroots effort, starting from mothers, fathers, and college kids at secular universities raised in a Christian home, empowered with apologetics tools.  I wouldn't place our hope in the universities, though, although they undoubtably will help to a degree.

It's interesting you mention specializing.  I love apologetics, but I seem to have focused on the creation/evolution debate particularly.  No PhD, though :(

Lara, I wish I could star your comment!!!

Eric
November 21, 2007 at 8:18pm

Also, -- and perhaps this blows out my whole last comment -- I recognize the extreme importance of Christians acquiring advanced degrees in the sciences:  geology, paleontology, microbiology, genetics.  Creationists need to explore God's creation more, and a lot of the creationist fields are really lacking (bariminology, catastrophisism, cosmology, etc), begging for more data.  The RATE project was a phenominal success, but even that project left open too many new questions, and more projects like it need to be done.

More Christians need advanced science degrees to assist others in apologetics.

hopefienddave
November 21, 2007 at 9:49pm
Thanks once again pastor Tim;

Apologetics seems to be coming up all the time.  Personally I have to watch that pride thing 'cause if I aint careful winning an argument can be more important that compassion.
Pastor Tim
November 21, 2007 at 10:20pm
Eric,

I undertsand your point, but I would disagree. For instance, let's look at television. (I am using what I wrote on another blog) Ravi Zacharias illuminates for us the idea that a philosophy comes to us in three levels. Level one is theory. This level deals with the foundation of one’s philosophy at the theoretical level.  For instance, in the movies the writers and producers of the movie attempt to communicate a philosophy or worldview. Level one is the level of theory. This is the level of the academy. This is what shapes the worldview of a lot of the movers and shakers in Hollywood.

However, in order to advance such a theory requires that it be communicated in understandable ways, which
brings us to the second level which is the arts. According to Zacharias the second level “does not feel the constraint of reason or come under the binding strictures of argument. It finds its refuge in the imagination and feeling.” The arts then become the persuader that attempts to sway people to adopt the philosophy that is being communicated. It illustrates for the audience the philosophy being communicated. Consequently, it is imperative that we must rid ourselves of the idea that movies are simply for entertainment.  They are often if not always made to convince viewers to a way of thinking or believing. 
 

To convince is exactly what level three is all about. The third level is practical application. People now apply the theory (level one) to daily life, resulting in the new found theory governing how they view the world.

Reagrding the ID movement, I will have to look into what you said. You have a much better grasp of the current happening in that movement.

Dave, I would agree. Apolgetics is not really arguing for the Christian faith as it is answering people's questions and being ready to offer a defense for the hope that we have.

I really like what you said about winning the argument. We can win an argument and at the same time loose the person. However, we must keep in mind that people are much more important.

Also, we are to speak the truth in love. Apologetics is helping people remove the obstacles so they can accept Christ. If we defend the faith in the wrong Spirit it may add another obstacle, which is not our intent. You are exactly right. Compassion as well as humility should be the driving force.

hopefienddave
November 22, 2007 at 2:01am
Yup sometimes I just have to pray that I can respond in love.  I hope you and yours have a good Thanksgiving.  I may be swingin' by Club Gobi just for old time sakes
Evangelist Keith Wilson
November 22, 2007 at 4:44am

Well written blog fillled with truth!

Pastor Tim
November 22, 2007 at 4:49am
Dave and Keith, thanks guys and may you both have a happy Thanksgiving.
Pastor Tim
November 22, 2007 at 4:59am
Thanks Eric. I added the 8th Scripture verse - I forgot Phil. 1:17.
Brent
November 22, 2007 at 4:12pm

Pastor Tim, Happy Thanksgiving to you.  Interesting blog and comments.  I would say that knowing the defense of our faith is such a good thing.  For one thing, we need to know, really konw what and why we believe so we can be ready to take every thought captive and know if we are hearing from God or not. 

We need to be ready to share the hope that is in us.  We shoudl be ready to answer the people that challenge us to explain why we believe.  Here is where we need to understand that the precepts of the faith are understood by the Holy Spirit revealing that truth.  We can't hope to get the non-christians to understand that which is only Spiritually understood.  Sometimes I forget this when I discuss matters of faith with those that are non-christians.

I don't agree that we need to give up on the University.  I think we should strive to make an impact in the public square in the university, government, all levels of education, and our churches as well.  We all know that they are not going to welcome our ideas, but we are not responsible for convincing them to believe, but we are responsible for being obedient and sharing the truth.

Thanks for your excellent blog and I hope you have a fantastic Thanksgiving Weekend.  Keep warm up in windy Chicago! 

In the Grip of His Grace, your brother in Christ, Brent 

Pastor Tim
November 24, 2007 at 4:13am
Arlene, I am glad that it ministered to you.

Brent, I totally agree that we need to be ready to tell people about the hope that we have in Jesus.

Regarding Thanksgiving, we had a wondeful time. I just ate too much :-)
Sandie
December 02, 2007 at 11:34pm
Thanks I needed that, God has been dealing with me to step it up a notch... When I was reading your message I started thinking how I would approach someone questioning my faith.  All I could hear Jesus/Holy Spirit saying is share your experience, hopes and truths and he would give me the rest... I get it, he wants me to be ready when called upon, better start studying more no telling what He has in store!  Have a great week and don't forget to laugh : )
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