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| Does the Bible or Saviour Teach Us to Lie? |
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8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Does the Bible or Saviour Teach Us to Lie?
Is it right to lie, especially to children? If they are lied to about Santa Claus/St. Nick, Easter bunnies, tooth faries, etc., how are they supposed to ever trust, really trust and believe in an unseen GOD? Does the Bible or the Saviour's behavior teach us to lie, especially to children?
The verse I enclosed, which is ONE OF MANY in the Bible that speaks of liars, was spoken BY THE SAVIOUR. That is why I chose this scripture over the others.
I am not speaking condemnation over any one. I know you love your children and grandchildren. Most of us never meant any harm in playing along. I encourage you to think about it. It really is a lie and your children and grandchildren deserve honesty. |
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| To add a comment to "Does the Bible or Saviour Teach Us to Lie?" |
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| November 29, 2007 |
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Someone else wrote about this subject and I have to admit I, my self had trouble with the fact I had told my children about there being a Santa and all. But, again, I remember how great it was for me and my sisters and how, after we discoved there was none we continued to make them think we still did. It's a family thing, I really think. Not wrong, yet, kind of hanging on the fence. I've even gone so far as to tell them I was sorry for the desecption. But, they say, they would not have it any other way for theirs. I always read them from the "Night Before Christmas" when they were small. But, in the same turn they enjoyed my readind from the special Bible I bought them one Christmas about the "Real" meainig of the day. It was actually jesus's "Conception" which most don't even know 'till this day. But it is the time our Lord came to commune with us in what he promissed he would not let us do ourselves whaen he said,"Let us make man in "OUR" image.
To lie and not accept the Father as our God and his son our Lord and savior is to "Take the Lord's name in vain" as most certainly have not learned today after over 2006 years (perhaps, 2010+) So let us be happy and rejoise as we can still hear his wonderfull name on this precious Holiday! God bless!! P.S. Remember, to believe, is to "TRUST" not believe as in the "tuth fairy" |
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| November 29, 2007 |
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Good question.
The way I see it, the bible teaches us to be brutally honest, first with ourselves, and then with everyone else. Lies are of the devil, even the little white ones.
I grew up with a dad that got extremely angry at almost everything. From as far back as I can remember, I was taught by my mother to keep things a secret from dad. Now don't get me wrong, I loved my mother greatly, and I know her heart was in the right place. But it taught me to lie. It also hindered me from ever being able to go to my dad for advice. Ultimately, this was a major hindrance for me to be able to see God as my heavenly father, I was as much in fear of him as I was my earthly dad.
I never really had a chance to reconcile my relationship with dad. He passed away only months after I became born again and accepted the love of God in my heart. But now I know the truth about the love of Fathers.
I know this isn't exactly on topic. But lies plant seeds. Truth sets us free and builds trust.
Transparency is the key. The devil cannot hold us in bondage for that which we are willing to openly admit.
Tell yourself the truth, then pass that truth onto your children. It will do wonders for your long-term relationship with them. |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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| Golden2100, thank you for taking the time to read my blog and THANK YOU for your comment. I also did the Santa thing with my children and never gave it serious thought--what I was really doing. Later, it dawned on me that I thought it was an "innocent" little lie when in fact it was not. It was just a lie. December 25 is designated as the celebration of the Saviour's birth and then the focus is on the lie and all the hoopla surrounding it. The Saviour (the birthday boy) is left out. Why should the designated day even be shared, especially involving a lie, of all things. Ask most children about Christmas and they quickly tell you about Santa, not the Saviour. Why have to explain both? If you want to give your child a gift, any time of the year, give it to them, tell them you love them and that you are giving them a gift, not Santa, the easter bunny, etc. They love their children and they just don't want their children to feel "left out"--so they continue with the lies. You and I know that, but many people really have not thought about it. I know you've read my other Christmas blogs but for the benefit of those who have not, please read my Christmas blogs, part 1 and 2. Thanks, Golden2100, for your comment! |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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| Michael, THANK YOU for your comment in the entire comment including "But it taught me to lie. It also hindered me from ever being able to go to my dad for advice. Ultimately, this was a major hindrance for me to be able to see God as my heavenly father, I was as much in fear of him as I was my earthly dad. I never really had a chance to reconcile my relationship with dad. He passed away only months after I became born again and accepted the love of God in my heart. But now I know the truth about the love of Fathers. I know this isn't exactly on topic. But lies plant seeds. Truth sets us free and builds trust. Transparency is the key. The devil cannot hold us in bondage for that which we are willing to openly admit. Tell yourself the truth, then pass that truth onto your children. It will do wonders for your long-term relationship with them." Your experience illustrates exactly what can happen with lies, even if we think the lie is innocent and not hurting anyone. It ultimately does in one way or another. I am sorry you experienced this but I APPRECIATE you taking the time to share with us and your honesty. I agree with you completely! The cause and effect can be so huge and I think you were exactly on topic. THANKS! |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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| I don't have children, so I have never had to make this decision. I would think though, that there would be a way to let them know that Santa is fictitious, but still allow them to have the fun of Christmas morning. I wouldn't want to lie to them, basically because how will they trust that Jesus is real when all these other things are not? This is a great blog. Thanks for sharing it. |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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| Thank you, Deb! Your observation, " basically because how will they trust that Jesus is real when all these other things are not? " is exactly what I'm saying. Thanks for taking the time to read the blog and for your comment! |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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The Bible does speak of a lier not being able to stand before him, and every lier will have its part in the lake of fire. Thus, I would say "Let every man be a lier, but let his word be true." It is not good to lie under no circumstances.
May Yahweh Forever Bless You, and May Grace Shine Upon You, and Bring You Peace.
Jacqueline Bartley |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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| Jackie, THANK YOU for the BLESSING! That means a lot to me! I appreciate your taking the time to read my blog and to leave your comment. May Yahweh BLESS you, too! |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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Yeah I am guilty. I lied... but now as a Christian I see it as WRONG.
You know My parents told me they wanted me to eventually believe in Jesus something unseen...
But now that I think about it that probably forced me to think Jesus was a lie too for 33 hard lived years.
Deep |
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| November 30, 2007 |
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| Becky, Thank you for taking the time to read this blog and to leave a star and comment. I appreciate you very much! I must say, you have one GREAT testimony and since you gave me permission to share it, I will leave this link. I encourage everyone to look at Becky's testimony. She's very open and honest and shows the Amazing Grace of God through her testimony! Click here: B5: Stubborn ole Mule - My Testimony as of September 27, 2007 |
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| December 01, 2007 |
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I still have trouble with "Easter". It does not appear in the real text. The word is "Passover." Yet, most, 9if not all the so-called "Pastors" will tell you happy Easter. That's one of the biggest lies our Father hates. Eating of swine on that days is not too swift either. the dirtiest animal on God's green earth. how did a sex orgy called Easter by the Pagan's become involved with our Lord. ask yourself that. while your at it. Are you going to celebrate "Easter" next Spring. or the true Holiday, "Passover" which appears much latter. Not by the "Jewish" calendar though!!
Christmas is the day our Lord was conceived by the way (TRUTH) but most think he was "born" that day. I will write a blog proving it. But like all the others I have wrote on these subjects. i would guess it gets no fanfare. only the silliest stuff does. forgive my non-patients tonight. But, there are times when one can really get ones dander up!! God bless!! Ronnie! |
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| December 01, 2007 |
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I'm going to say something just to make us think. Before I get started, let me be quite clear. It is wrong to lie.
However, let's suppose it's World War II, you are in a Japanese prison camp, and have been forced to choose between allowing the commandant to shoot fellow soldiers or telling him the truth about which one stole some bread.
Far out? No, Rahab the prostitute also had a similar circumstance. She had to choose between lying and allowing the two Israelite spies to be captured and killed. She chose to lie, and nowhere is she criticized for it. Instead, she is praised for her faith, and this incident is cited as an example.
Confused? What's the answer?
I don't have all the answers to this dilemma. However, one thing is for sure: LEGALISM will not provide it! Legalism in this case would tell us that there are only two kinds of choice: good and evil. However, that is not real life. Real life gives us plenty of choices between two perfectly good things. Whichever one we choose, we have not done any evil.
The hard part comes when life deals us a choice between two evils. In such cases, we are often forced to choose the lesser of two evils. There is sometimes no other choice available. That was Rahab's dilemma and she is praised for having the faith to make the choice that she did.
How would you have chosen? Your answer may tell you how much you are affected by legalistic thinking. |
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| December 01, 2007 |
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| Ronnie, As always, your comment is appreciated. I think it would be GREAT to read your blog about Passover and Easter, when you get it done. I know what you speak of, not denying the Saviour died and rose, but the objection to pagan celebrations which have taken over and left the Saviour/Passover Lamb out of it and replacing HIM with a rabbit. I ask those who never thought about it, just how does a rabbit fit into it or Santa Claus either. The Saviour did and gave enough without needing the assistance of Santa Claus or a Rabbit. And--both are stealing the trust of children. Then, it makes it hard for them to believe in the unseen Saviour, since the santa, easter bunny lies eventually come out--they can't help but wonder if this Saviour is but yet another santa and easter bunny type lie. I am not trying to be harsh with anyone, but it is a lie and it does end up disappointing children. Please be sure to let me know when you get your blog done. No rush, just let me know whenever. Thanks again for your comment! |
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| December 01, 2007 |
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| Grant, I do appreciate your opening statement that it is wrong to lie. And I think I would be right that you would agree that santa and the easter bunny lies are not legalistic or right. Stealing the trust of children through a deliberate lie about santa and easter bunny is not even in the class of choices between two perfectly good things. Thank you so much for reading the blog and expressing your opinion. I like blogs that do help us think and comments, too. I see what you are saying about the WWII and Rahab illustrations. I also agree with your statement, " Legalism in this case would tell us that there are only two kinds of choice: good and evil. However, that is not real life. Real life gives us plenty of choices between two perfectly good things. Whichever one we choose, we have not done any evil." It will be interesting to hear other comments about your questions. They are thought provoking and I do appreciate your comment! |
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| December 02, 2007 |
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| Ragamuffin, What an absolutely amazing "testimony"!!! I am soooo glad you were obedient to the voice and leading of the Holy Spirit! It paid off too, your son is secure he can trust you. Your son is strong and bold already in expressing his belief in the Saviour and did not have to sift through a lot of well, santa/St. Nick wasn't true, easter bunny wasn't true, and the tooth fairy wasn't true, well I wonder if this is the truth! Such a wonderful, wonderful thing for you to share. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting this on my blog. |
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| December 02, 2007 |
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When I was spanked by my dad he'd say it was because I'd lied to him. That was usually the reason he gave; but, since I'd done something wrong (not take out the trash, sass my mother, or something like that) I was so afraid of being spanked I'd deny I 'd actually done the wrong. Of course that led to the belt. I just kept repeating these lies and could never overcome it. I still think dad was overdoing it; but, what has helped me forgive was when the Holy Spirit came into my life I was radically changed from being a liar for the fun of it to someone with a very sensitive conscience concerning the truth. Much of the stuff God left me to fight has always seemed so much more important it becomes apparent there is a connection. I said that because The commandment is to not bear false witness against one's associates. Even so, I still can't bear false witness for a friend. God sent a lying spirit into the mouths of His prophets. Other examples were given above of righteous lying. God help us all! ---James |
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| December 03, 2007 |
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| Reformer, Thank you for your comment. I can identify with your comment, "I was so afraid of being spanked I'd deny I 'd actually done the wrong." I think most of us can relate to that. Also, your comment, "The commandment is to not bear false witness against one's associates. Even so, I still can't bear false witness for a friend." is a great way to put it. And of course your comment, "examples were given above of righteous lying. God help us all!", is very perceptive. Even though people sometimes consider righteous lying is to keep from hurting someone else, it's usually to cover up something that could have been avoided in the first place and the lie actually is a cover-up of that. But, as we know the real truth usually comes out in the end and the hurt is even worse. I don't know of many (any) modern day instances of Rahab type decisions that can justify a lie over the truth. The santa/st.nick, easter bunny, tooth fairy lies are certainly not in any category to me except unnecessary lie by CHOICE and it does end up affecting children in a lasting way. Anyone else got a perspective on any of this? Thanks, Reformer, for taking time to leave a great comment! |
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| December 03, 2007 |
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Good Afternoon All,
Easter, Christmas . . . I was born in the 7th Day Sabbath (I will not make this long). We never celebrated Christmas or any Pegan (worldly) holidays in our house. However, I did go to a public school, and during those times I was exposed to the holidays. As a child, it never bothered me to celebrate or not celebrate those holidays I guess because its basicly a learned behavior, and also I could not find the truth in them (i.e, the Bunny and Easter on Saint Nick and Christmas). That has always been my main concern with understanding them. I never discouraged gift giving as we celebrate Prium. What bothers me though is that he asks us to celebrate his death which is Passover. However, we in the world celebrates his birth which is known to us as Christmas. Obidence is better than a great sacrifice.
Yah Bless
Jackie |
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| December 03, 2007 |
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| Jackie, Thanks for your comment. You make some very interesting points. Yes, I believe HE is the Passover Lamb. My objection with Easter over Passover (along with the reasons you already stated) is that Easter is not mentioned in Bible and customs (Fertility symbolism--rabbits, eggs, and chickens) and lies about the easter bunny bringing gifts to the children. Even if people want to say they are celebrating the day he AROSE (and aren't we all grateful that HE DID), but bring the easter bunny lie into it which decieves children and again makes the Saviour look pale to the children compared to the wonderful easter bunny. If people want to hunt eggs with their children why not pick another day completely unrelated to the Saviour's days of supposed celebration in HIS honor. Then tell the children (not a lie about a bunny) but that you have a new game to play that day that's like hide and seek only you hide items and they find them. I also agree with your reference to, "What bothers me though is that he asks us to celebrate his death which is Passover". Thank you for your view and comment! |
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| December 07, 2007 |
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WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO TELL THE TRUTH?
Proverbs 12:19 . . . Truth stands the test of time; lies are soon exposed.
Ephesians 4:25 . . . Put away all falsehood and “tell your neighbor the truth” because we belong to each other.
WHAT DOES GOD THINK ABOUT LYING? HOW SHOULD WE FEEL ABOUT LYING?
Proverbs 6:17-19 . . . There are six things the Lord hates-no, seven . . . haughty eyes, a lying tongue.
Proverbs 12:22 . . . The Lord hates those who don’t keep their word, but he delights in those who do.
Romans 1:18 . . . God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.
God is truth, so he must hate lies and lying. He cannot tolerate them because they violate his personhood.
Psalm 119:163 . . . I hate and abhor all falsehood.
Proverbs 13:5 . . . Those who are godly hate lies.
Colossians 3:9 . . . Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old evil nature and all its wicked deeds.
We should hate lies because they are part of the old sinful nature we had before we were Christians.
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| December 14, 2007 |
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| Ma Kelly, Thank you for all the Scripture backing the teaching in Scripture about telling lies. Santa is a LIE and why replace the SAVIOUR, the BIRTHDAY we are supposed to be celebrating (even though the birthdate was NOT December 25)--it is the day we designated to CELEBRATE HIS BIRTH, not Saint Nick (celebrate Saint Nick's birthday on his birthday--PLEASE don't use the SAVIOUR to honor someone else, real or fictional!). A lie is a lie and the children do find out the truth. Children can have joy and fun WITHOUT a LIE or without getting their priorities confused about who they are honoring. Also, parents won't have to get so deeply in debt buying for Santa, St. Nick, Easter bunny, etc.! If a person wants to give gifts to someone why not just get it whenever and give it to the person and tell them, "I wanted to give you something that I wanted you to have, because I love you (or like you or whatever)." Thank you, Ma Kelly, for taking the time to write down the SCRIPTURE and to leave your star and comment! |
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| December 14, 2007 |
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It's really something else, yet no surprise on how Satan works on us. We are not perfect, and he knows that better than any but God. So, it's easier to be week that way. Rahab, was not a prostitute or "harlot" as even, sadly, Dr Smith writes in his dictionary of the Bible.
It is things like this that the "Kenites" had so much to do to bare false witness in the Bible about so much truths. (Kenites, son's of Cain) I celebrate "Christmas" as the time the Holy Spirit came to dwell with man. no better celebration could be at this time. A child in the womb of Mary when needed for for so long. The greatest gift of all is given us this 25th of December. He is our Lord. for me, there is no other. Fantasy is easy to know as just that. But the lies that prevail because of ignorance are so much worst. There are so much more lieing to worry about.
The ordnance of the "Sabbath" was changed with that babe. For he is our "Sabbath" our rest. (see Hebrews Chap 4) This is the day the "Sabbath" became more than just one day of rest. He IS our rest. Merry Christmas!! God bless!! |
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| December 14, 2007 |
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| By the way. For general information. Our Lord was not replaced by a rabbit. That would be nice compared to the "swine" they eat at a time a lamb would be more appropriate. The dirtiest animal on the face of world. Now, do you think this just "happened"??? Why do all the so-called "educated" "Pastors" have "Easter" raffles for the nice "Easter pig" for your table. The shame in this world is way far gone!! |
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| December 14, 2007 |
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| Golden, thanks for your comments. Your comment, "But the lies that prevail because of ignorance are so much worst.", is so true. Many people do not even realize that's what they are doing. Their parents and grandparents continued the tradition of men so it became "the thing to do" and seems so right. I did the same thing with my children before I KNEW the difference. It just seems to be a little lie so the children can have fun but it can have consequences that last. It also makes it harder for children to know if the truth is being told about a SAVIOUR that they can't see and they weigh their life experience about the Santa, St. Nick, Easter bunny, and tooth fairy lies and can't help but wonder when they'll learn the Saviour was "made up for fun" or not. Even as adults, most people do not like to be lied to--much less an innocent child that depends on believing what their parents or grandparents teach them about things. It can shake their very foundation, in my opinion. Thank you for taking time to leave your comments, Golden2100. Oh, I also agree with your statement, "Our Lord was not replaced by a rabbit" but this certainly is what happens at the time people say they are thinking about the Saviour dying for them. What has a rabbit (lie) got to do with it people??? I don't recall a rabbit dying on the cross for me or even being there when the Saviour died or was resurrected. You don't need a symbol to show honor and the respect due the SAVIOUR. |
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| December 15, 2007 |
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| I think the blog that Beverly wrote is absolutely great! Quite a bit of research and thought went into this blog. It's very easy to read and really brings out some interesting points that I had not thought of in this way. Click on this link to Beverly's blog! |
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| January 06, 2008 |
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Beverly's blog does not work???
In 1978... I received the Holy Spirit of Truth and Love... and thus my desires changed... I choose to walk in the Spirit of Truth and Love. Satan is the father of lies... and thus I choose not to lie... or give it power over me... I wrestle against the temptation if it arises. I daily choose to receive the power of the Holy Spirit to live through me... I ask for Father's love... truth... wisdom, His desires and the like to be my motivation. I choose to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.... to seek out His wisdom and power to overcome sin. When one asks for such... Father it seems to be, orchestrates circumstances in one's life to empower one to walk in such. With that said may I offer:
It seems to be shortly I may be asked to pretend ... a form of lying? I was grieved by such a possibility... and thus have sought the Spirit of the Lord diligently regarding this. Before I offer what I believe I received in reply may I offer examples of the circumstances which may take place to make this pretending a necessity.
I have a dear friend who has Alzheimer's... For those unaware... Alzheimer's is a very cruel disease. The brain slowly dies..... all short term memory leaves... one can forget a conversation they just had and may repeat it over and over... they begin to live in the past more and more frequently.... at later stages, they forget who you are... or relate to you as someone you are not.... or through an event which took place long ago. Sometimes such a one can hallucinate, they can become confused and paranoid and make false accusations ... they forget words and their meaning... their entire personality can change as the brain dies. Someone who was always kind can become mean... for example... or vice versa.... the real them disappears gradually. Eventually, as the brain dies... such a one may forget what a fork is... or what food is and stop eating, and if they are fed... they can die... because they choked to death... forgetting how to swallow. When this begins to take place... those who love and care for them, must learn to relate to them in a new, ever more loving way.... and sometimes let go of their own needs in the moment. Now, if I may continue by offering some examples of how one who cares for them must lie or pretend: say such a one is hallucinating... they may see a cow in their room and become agitated... because the part of their brain which can reason is now dead... one cannot reason with them. To attempt to do so causes them great emotional pain and adds to their confusion and fears. So... professionals have determined the best way to relate to them in such a moment is to pretend... one might act like they see the cow and say 'Cow... what are you doing in here... your should not be in the house... get out of here!' and go through the motions of shooing away the cow until the one with Alzheimer's is at peace again. OR... one with Alzheimer's might think they are young again... and are confused because in their mind they must go to work and can't find their keys... so in such a moment... the one who finds them in such a state must say something like... 'Today's Saturday... you don't have to go to work today.' and direct their attention elsewhere OR they may think a dead relative is alive... or their grown children are babes... and are stressed out because they cannot find them... so the one attending them in the moment must come up with some creative way to deal with this... such as changing the topic... and if that does not work say something like 'the children are with your mom at the store, they'll be here soon.' OR they may relive a memory with you... as if you remember too. You bring them great joy in their moment... by pretending you remember... or were a part of it. Within 5 minutes the conversation will be forgotten... and their mind will go to another memory.... or moment in time.... until the day comes when they can no longer remember how to speak. Professionals say... the most loving thing to do is to help them create moment of joy in their now... for shortly... even those will be gone. When my friend began to study the effects of Alzheimer's with me... she asked me not to abandon her in her time of need ... to make sure she is cared for the best we can under the circumstances. Being a retired nurse... she understands what is coming, more than most... she has told Father she is ready to come home, she is in great physical pain too, due to other illnesses. I have asked that He heal her if it is not time for her to come home... and to heal those with this dreadful disease.. and to be with their caregivers as they seek new, creative ways to express their love until HE does. To help them ... not to be separated from HIS unconditional love... as they 'pretend or lie' for the sake of the one in need. Perhaps you will join me.... With that said.. may I offer as food for thought? While seeking HIM as to my desire not to lie... I was reminded... NOTHING can separate us from the love of God! Jesus died for the sin nature... in His eyes no one sin is greater than another... and ALL transgressions we ever commit are forgiven and forgotten... we died with Christ and are raised anew... and our old nature is now hid in Christ through God. The pleasure I once received from sin is gone... for HIS nature lives through me now and His desires are becoming my own through our union. Neither His unconditional love... nor our salvation can be earned... nor destroyed. It is a free gift of grace... We are to live under grace and offer it... through love. His truth is we are to walk in the spirit of love and judge not lest we be judged (judge ourselves in the judging for through Christ the curse of judgment has been removed)... we are not to put ourselves back under the law.... to put ourselves under the law again... cause US to condemn ourselves.... or another. His love and truth is to be our motivator... we are to walk after the spirit... and not after the desires of the flesh... we are not to lean to our own understanding... but to acknowledge HIM in all HIS ways... and as we do HE WILL direct our paths. bren |
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| January 06, 2008 |
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HolySpiritWithin, THANK YOU for sharing this with us. I can see what you are saying. It's a tough situation and very stressful to try to offer comfort and encouragement under the circumstances.
. Your statement, " When my friend began to study the effects of Alzheimer's with me... she asked me not to abandon her in her time of need ... to make sure she is cared for the best we can under the circumstances. Being a retired nurse... she understands what is coming, more than most... she has told Father she is ready to come home, she is in great physical pain too, due to other illnesses. I have asked that He heal her if it is not time for her to come home... and to heal those with this dreadful disease.. and to be with their caregivers as they seek new, creative ways to express their love until HE does. To help them ... not to be separated from HIS unconditional love... as they 'pretend or lie' for the sake of the one in need. Perhaps you will join me...." really helps me realize that you've researched this disease and the effects it does have on people. So, yes, I join you in asking the Saviour to guide you and I would be in agreement with your friend's and your prayer about everything in your sentence above. May you both be under the shelter of HIS wings! Thank you for sharing this very personal experience and may God BLESS you and your friend.
I would be interested to know other opinions about this dilemma.
Personally, I think it is not telling a lie when you simply do not argue with the person.
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