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| DOING FOR God - or God doing/living through us? |
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Is there a difference in DOING FOR God and surrender TO God, in order that He may express His divine nature and love through us to others on a day to day basis? I am reading a book by Kent & Davidene Humphreys called, Show and then Tell.
I took the liberty to modify a few diagrams from the book.
(pages 71 & 73)
I used to believe my life consisted of many activities and segments that make up the whole of my service to God. I would agonize over seeking the will of God regarding each of these and try and DO God's will to the best of my ability. This is what the Humphreys call living "segregated lives." Can you spot the one main detail missing in this diagram below?
The main detail missing above is God! God's purpose does not entertain the idea of Him being "indirectly inferred" in our living. We all know that God is omniscient, all powerful and wise. He really needs no man's help in these matters of life; however He has chosen us that He might draw us to Himself and bring us into the process and priviledge of seeing His purpose accomplished as He lives His life out through our daily living.
Our DOING FOR God falls so short of fulfilling His purpose and will. Falling short is missing the mark, which is sin. Can you see from the diagram below that by living an integrated life making God our priority and focus, provides Him a direct flow of His life (fellership) flowing through us to others?
Consider these verses:
2:13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.
1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.
4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves;
2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that `life' which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, `the faith' which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. |
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| To add a comment to "DOING FOR God - or God doing/living through us?" |
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| December 02, 2007 |
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| Yes, our focus on HIM first can and will affect all these other areas! |
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| December 03, 2007 |
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| Amen! "I do nothing that I do not first see My Father doing..." Action proceeds from intimacy and transformation into His likeness. |
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| March 14, 2008 |
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| Hey Charlie, how are you? We as christians are guilty of "doing" all the right actions ,going to church and so forth and really do not KNOW what is on hiis heart , just yesterday i asked Him what was his concern, and he said "Daughter my church does not know me" I am doing a study at my bible study on Psalm 91, and you know the first line says HE WHO dwells,it is conditional, just like in rev, it says to HIM WHO overcomes, there is a benift package to ALL that the Lord has for us, but if we do not get into that secret dwelling place of KNOWING HIM we will never know His will and His purposes, the church MUST stop playing church and be the Bride, and be united under the chuppah (canopy)(secret place) enter into that personal relationship with there groom. Blessings Charlie, Michele |
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| March 14, 2008 |
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Hey Charlie, Your title, hits the nail right on the head. It is exactly what I’ve been trying to write about lately (DOING FOR God - or God doing/living through us?). So thanks for this! Now it’s been my experience, that the number of people who promote the above statement as their calling card (what they are all about), do hardly anything. One of their number one verses (or it is their number one verse), is Gal. 2:20 just like you mention. ~ “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that `life' which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, `the faith' which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me (Galatians 2:20 ASV).” These people however, don’t really seem to believe it. Why? Because if they are really no longer living… then there goes away the inactivity. If they really, really believe that it is Christ now doing the living, instead of them… they would be doing something (imo). I just can’t imagine Jesus laying around, drinking wine all day and rarely going out on the frontlines against all the evil. If He really is living instead of them, Jesus would probably be so active, that it would make their heads swim. Instead of keeping and improving their personal property… He would be focused on others and possibly giving it away. But as soon as I share this with the person who proclaims this as their primary doctrine, they throw back this argument. “You don’t want to have a lot of wood hay and stubble, to be burned do you? You want to make sure the things that you are doing are Spirit lead. From this they do nothing but wait. Wait for that special something from God… and now we come around the mountain again and we are right back to me asking, “so since Jesus is now doing the living through your mortal body instead of you… He is doing most-of the-time nothing? ~ What sign is He waiting for, how much worse does it have to get for Him to leap into action? Again, I can understand unbelieving people doing hardly anything, but Jesus? If He is the driver of the vehicle (1 Cor.6:19,20), I think He would be going somewhere, not setting in the driveway with the emergency brake on. Now am I saying we shouldn’t believe Gal.2:20? NO!, we really, really need to believe it and then walk... not sit. ~ Does, “go into all the world mean wait?” |
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| March 14, 2008 |
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Thank you Michele for your comment. As usual, you have gotten me to thinkin. I like the idea of dwelling UNDER the canopy of our "secret place" with God. I also am wondering if that is what "abiding in Me" is about? Just hangin out and getting to know the Lord and His heart.
There is another precious canopy or covering (small tabernacle) mentioned in both the Old and New Testament, David's tabernacle at his house (Zion). Guess what was DWELLING under that canopy? The ark of the Lord! What a wonderful picture and example for us to consider. It is no small thing that the man who was after God's own heart, was the only Israelite to go get the ark and have it dwell at his personal dwelling (home) on Mt. Zion - not to be confused with Mt. Moriah.
I also enjoyed thinking about the bride united with her hubby under such chuppah. How intimate! |
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| March 14, 2008 |
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Thanks bro R for your comment, also our simple bro Paul :). I can't count the number of times I have determined to simplify my life. At the very least, every new years :). We moved out in the country for that very reason; simplify our lives. Yet the stuff in our storage building keeps outgrowing it's walls! May the Lord continue to simplify all of us inwardly and outwardly!
With that being said, I will comment further. I think that outwardly doing FOR God and God DOING in us (Phil. 2:13) may look the same. I believe it all boils down to this: divine revelation. Even Gal. 2:20 can be lived out on many levels. It all depends on what God reveals and how His Spirit applies it our lives. It is by no means a ONE time revelation and application, but a growing and deepening process. I dare say it is an eternal revelation that will continue to unfold and germinate itself far beyond this earthly life. We now have the life of God via His Spirit dwelling in us. Is that not eternal life?
If our focus is doing FOR God, we may get caught up work and performance and miss out on the intimate relationship God longs for in, with and thru us. If our motivation is out of our relationship and love for God, it will overflow to others on a daily basis as we walk out this adventurous life in fellership with God and others will see aspects of God's nature being lived out in us.
I hope I didn't complicate the issue. It's really quite simple <wink> (but not so easy). |
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| March 15, 2008 |
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Hey Charlie, That’s another gripe I have when we process what Gal.2:20 says. People will say, “it’s His Life that lives through my life.” But what are we a cat? Just how many lives do we have? Who’s life is it anyways? If I was crucified with Christ (as the verse says), didn’t that do away with my life? If so, who’s life is the Life that I now have (1 Jn.5:12)? If we want our words to really line up with His words, shouldn’t we be saying, “it’s His Life that is now my Life?” This also accomplishes Rom.12:1 (I think)... and agrees with 1 Cor. 6:19,20. What should we be saying? |
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| March 15, 2008 |
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Hey Charlie, Since I put the quarter in the slot can I keep on talking? Here is something else that’s even larger than what I choose to comment on the first time. You said, “if our focus is doing FOR God, we may get caught up in works and performance and miss out on the intimate relationship that God longs to have with us.” Not so! I ask you to please consider this. While we do anything against a known evil (anything we want), and we believe Gal.2:20, then we know it is God, who is the One doing it and we can no longer do it, if we believe this verse. ~ And while we believe Him doing it, will we suffer in our depth of relationship with Him? No!, it actually increases our relationship with Him. Why? Because on the frontlines against any evil (say abortion clinic for example), we have a greater dependence on God, than when we were comfortably staying in our house, waiting for that special revelation and inspiration from God. I challenge you (and anybody else), please!, stand against an known evil (in your community), and see if God stops you like He did Paul going to where he wanted to go. And if God doesn’t stop you and it is an evil (like the abortion clinic), you will find your relationship with God does not suffer... it actually increases. The relationships that do suffer? Those are the ones with your brothers and sisters who think they know that they have to wait for special revelations from God to do anything. You will know different but when you tell them they will argue with you, and that will cause relationships to suffer, but it won‘t be with God. Try it and prove God wrong. People who say these kinds of things to me, are playing into the devils hands (imho). Where in the New Testament does it show Jesus and the disciples not working. They are waiting until they got special revelations (after Acts 2 of course)? I know Paul was prevented to go where he wanted to go, but he was wanting to go. But to say that he sat on his hands until he got a new revelation is far fetched. He mentions revelations but he doesn’t say, “not until I got a revelation did I go.” Yet most believers are saying this in my opinion or they are settling for hitting one person at a time, while avoiding a known evil and the need for numbers to go stand against it. It’s more comfortable to help Grandma across the street than it is to stop abortion at the door of the place that will kill them, so that somebody can be that Grandmother. my 2 cents |
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| March 15, 2008 |
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Robert, I don't know if I can articulate what is in me, and how I live my life daily in fellership with God. But I can say with certainity, that I am NOT saying we have to wait for revelation before we do anything. {I did spend some time in that stage, and you are right, that is not what God expects of us.} What I am saying is that as we make our focus and goal each day to live in communion (I choose the word fellership) with God in spirit (which is a growing and stretching process), we will come to know God's heart and His priorities through our intimate relationship with Him.. As this transformation process continues, it will be made evident in our lives by the way we live and interact with others.
I believe this is the example Jesus lived and taught His disciples. Jesus did not go out and take on the evil, oppressive Roman Gov't, nor did He take any political position. Render to Caesar..not overthrow Caesar. But the more important thing is "render to God." That is where religion (Judiasim) had totally missed it. They had their priorities wrong. Eventually becasuse Jesus did not fit the mold or image of their God, and Messiah, they had that evil Roman Gov't they despised crucify the hope of Israel.
One more quarter in the slot -- Jesus went about doing good, most of the time on a one-on-one basis. When He fed the multitudes, they came to Him and wanted to make Him king. He rejected that. Jesus didn't come and recruit an army. He chose 12 men, one of which He KNEW was the betrayer! At one point, (John 6) many of disciples followed Him no more, yet He didn't run after them, He let them go and poured out the Father's heart to those who were hungry to learn of Him.
I think it is a big mistake to underestimate what God can and wants to do with one or just a few who are hungry for just knowing God and His heart. The "sermon on the mount" goes against all that seems rational to the natural man. It begins with "poor in spirit." HUNGERING and thirsting after righteousness, it begins with hunger, not DOING. It's all about the heart first. God satisfies the hunger with Himself, and His righteousness which is expressed in His nature begins to manifest itself through our relationship with Him and others.
There are many "gifts" given to men in the body of Christ. All are not arms, hands or the more useful and obvious members. Some are little toes or some internal organ that cannot be outwardly seen, but vital to the body. You may be called to shut down abortion clinics. If so, God will provide and sustain.
We all must walk in the calling in which we were called. In whatever that calling is, we are ALL called to hate the sin, but love the sinner. I don't believe man is capable of that apart from God and an intimate relationship via God's Spirit in us. |
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| March 15, 2008 |
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R, you wrote 2 comments back to back and I failed to respond to your first regarding our being crucified, and how many lives we have. If we have God's life, that means we have been born again, born of the Spirit and we have received God's Spirit in our spirit. You brought up I Cor. 6:19-20, a few verses above that, v. 17 it says, "...he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit."
That says to me that our spirit and God's spirit are now one. That is true regarding our born again life. What happened to our original life in our body (where sin dwells)? We have a spirit life now, but I believe we still have the old life, OLD MAN living in our human body and dictating his needs and wants also. From God's point of view, that old man is dead.
The struggle and goal of the Christian life is to live by God's life and we do that by the power of God's Spirit in us "reckoning" the old life as dead. Why? Cuz God has said it is. But this is the struggle Paul speaks of in Rom. 6. God, knowing the end from the beginning, sees the old man dead. So why do we Christians still struggle? We are called to live by faith, believe things unseen on the basis of God's assessment even if it goes against our "feelings" or "understanding." That's called faith and faith demands a relationship. Faith comes by HEARING, how can we hear without having a relationship with the One speaking? How can we trust what someone says without a relationship and proven experiences of that Person's faithfulness? How can we please God without faith? This is the divine life cycle we must live.
If we only have ONE life now, what are we called to deny? Why take up OUR cross? I don't know about you bro, but I wrestle with the old man every day. SELF is seated and empowered in the life of the old man.
The only time I have victory is when I am walking by the Spirit and the life of the Spirit nullifies the life of the old man. It is a daily, moment by moment process and growth. Paul said he dies daily (I Cor. 15:31). We are growing unto/into maturity in Christ. We were "wired" to live for self, God has installed a "wireless hub" in us that empowers us to live by His life now. I don't believe He removed the wired circuit.
One final point: we do not gain victory by will power. We cannot over power or unplug the old man. Jesus won the victory not by His will power, but by surrender, "...not MY will, but Thine be done." God assures us the victory cuz He knows the powerful effect His Son's death and resurrection has over the old man. We are still learning daily the reality of that. That is why we must have that intimate relationship daily. We receive His "wireless" signal as we draw close to His heart each moment of the day. God has linked us up now with the same wireless hub power that raised Jesus from the dead (Rom. 8:11). God's Spirit is our link to living, relating to Him and others on a day to day basis, thus making null and void the life of the old man. |
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| March 18, 2008 |
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Hey Charlie, I hope you’ll understand I don’t have the time to address everything. I find it interesting though, so thanks. Here is the question I think you need to ask, “are you (Charlie), defending the majority of believers who don’t do much?” Answer: yes, you are defending them and it has worked. You have convinced them. Question 2: Who... would want the majority to do nothing against known evil - God or His enemies? Answer: His enemies. And that is happening, in this country and around the world. Now I’d like to address this one thing that you said. Charlie said, “Jesus did not go out and take on the evil, oppressive Roman Gov't, nor did He take any political position. Render to Caesar, not overthrow Caesar. But the more important thing is "render to God.” Charlie your beginning premise is wrong here (to me). Why? Because we both know that from scripture Jesus came as the savior to the Jews only (He came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel only - spoken by Jesus), He did not come to correct all the evil with all people, He came to them specifically, so that they could either receive Him or fully reject Him. That was the mission he was on. Jesus had one main thing to do and He did it perfectly. But now? It’s up to us, we can take our pick against known evils. Be careful how we build on the foundation? Sure. But lets be defending godliness against evil, at the risk of it being wood hay or stubble. My final question: since the majority don’t do anything, should we try to motivate them, or should they wait for a sign from Heaven? Said Jesus in His story, “occupy until I come,” not - lay around and drink wine while evil murders children. R... |
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