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| Purpose Driven |
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   8:24 For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth? 8:25 But if we hope for that which we see not, `then' do we with patience wait for it.
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| To add a comment to "Purpose Driven" |
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| December 16, 2007 |
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| We are all certainly entitled to our opinions but I must say regardless of any underlying motives, incorrect doctrine, or any other problem I may have missed, the book led me 2 Jesus and I have been saved because of it. It explained Christianity in a beautiful way in which I was not taught. I am on my second time reading it and am still enjoying it. God uses all people 2 do his work and sometimes his choices are unclear. |
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| December 16, 2007 |
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i have not read the whole thing, but i am curious to know what is incorrect doctrine in the book. |
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| December 16, 2007 |
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| I did not find any incorrect doctrine. I am totally in love with the book! I was just a little confused about the comment of Rick Warren needing Jesus Christ. WE ALL DO! However I interpreted the comment to mean their was something wrong with him and if so the book. This may be, I don't know? The book was given to me by my sister. She is not a bealiever but thinks I need to decide where I am going in my life. She had no idea what she was giving me. I decided to read it and it changed my life! Where I needed to go was home! Rick Warren explained the relationship of us and God in a way that I could not only intellectualize but internalize. After reading his book I began my search. With the help of a few angels I made it to VBF, and the miracles have not stopped. Christ lives inside of me and it is the most glorious feeling I have ever known. Sometimes I just start crying for no reason because of the pure joy he radiates inside me. So yeah Rick Warren needs Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ needs Rick Warren as well as the rest of us! Praise Jesus! |
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| December 16, 2007 |
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| Im not against Rick Warren but against his teachings..... As we know satan can appear as a angel of ight and decieve manny |
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| December 16, 2007 |
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| Hey ThePinkPanther you should try being more positive and understand that everyone no matter what has there own opinions, but I was once told by a person who made me think twice about what I posted, so you should do the same my friend. You may have facts right or have facts wrong, but there are plenty of other ways of expressing your feelings towards this man Rick Warren. |
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| December 16, 2007 |
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All of this may be true, what do I know? I am a drug addict that has been struggling with the emptiness and despair that goes along with a life with out Jesus. I tried 12 step alone 4 10 years and never have I found the peace I know today. My faith is a journey growing and changing as I learn the lessons God puts before me. I try to be open minded as possible. I didn't get the same message u are sharing and maybe that's because I'm young but I don't really think age matters after all Jesus was 33 when he died. Rick Warren's book opened a door for me that no one else could. Satan does not lead people to God but sinners often do.I do not follow Rick Warren I follow JESUS~ I have been saved and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Jesus's love is undeniable. So thank you Rick Warren for if nothing else you introduced me to Christ. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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I dont know much about Rick warren, i have not read his books or even know what he looks like so i cannot be a good judge about this mans doctrine or his Church. But the Bible says in 2nd Timothy 4:2-3 Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires.
Now i do not say this to judge preachers or churches around america but i say all this to pose a question. Are we adhering to sound doctrine?
The truth is this, Christ died for our sins, we must repent and beleive.
Many will come to Christ and confess that they did many things in the Name of the lord and Christ will say "depart from me for i never knew you"
There is a danger in preachers who do not preach a complete Gospel, They may lead many astray and those may actually believe they are going to heaven when they are sadly not. I am not coming out against any specific preacher but we as Christians MUST compare what our preachers preach to what the Bible says.
The Bible = the ultimate standard |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Ok if this mans teachings are, so bad forget them, because God / Jesus state it very cleary do not judge others for he is the judge of us all, so if if Rick Warren is false to you then, so be it, but do not sit here be such a negative person on this web site Pink, your opinions are taken into consideration along with many others, but just, because you know what you are talking about doesn't mean to sit there and type out judgemental statements, because you know thats all I will say. If I dislike what you say lol, doesn't mean to go to God and Pray for every last statement you made I have my peace with God. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Jesus warned us that “false Christs and false prophets” will come and will attempt to deceive even God’s elect (Matthew 24:23-27; see also 2 Peter 3:3 and Jude 17-18). To best guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers - know the truth. To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who is, “rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15), and who makes a careful study of the Bible, can identify false doctrine. For example, a believer who has read the activities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matthew 3:16-17 will immediately question any doctrine that denies the Trinity. Therefore, “step one” is to study the Bible and judge all teaching by what the scripture says.
Jesus said “a tree is known by his fruit” (Matthew 12:33). When looking for “fruit,” here are three specific tests to apply to any teacher to determine the accuracy of his or her teaching:
1) What does this teacher say about Jesus? In Matthew 16:15, Jesus asks, “Whom say ye that I am?” Peter answers, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,” and for this answer Peter is called “blessed.” In 2 John 9, we read, “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” In other words, Jesus Christ and His work of redemption is of utmost importance; beware anyone who denies that Jesus is equal with God, who downplays Jesus’ substitutionary death, or who rejects Jesus’ humanity. First John 2:22 says, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”
2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). As nice as they sound, the statements “God loves you,” “God wants us to feed the hungry,” and “God wants you to be wealthy” are NOT the complete message of the gospel. As Paul warns in Galatians 1:7, “There be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.” No one, not even a great preacher, has the right to change the message that God gave us. “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).
3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers, Jude 11 says, “They have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses).
For further study, review those books of the Bible that were written specifically to combat false teaching within the church: Galatians, 2 Peter, 2 John, and Jude. It is often difficult to spot a false teacher / false prophet. That is what a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” is all about. Satan and his demons masquerade as “angels of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14), and his ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). Only by being thoroughly familiar with the truth will we be able to recognize a counterfeit. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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| One last comment on this subject 4rm me because I think this has turned into a battle of ego! I am a new believer, I am happier than I have ever been and have passed that on to not only my family but many others. This little war over Rick Warren is ugly and if I hadn't already truly experienced the miracle of Christ I would walk away and never look back. Rick Warren wrote a book or 2 of which I read and enjoyed. I live in Bakersfield not Orange County. My Church is Valley Bible Fellowship Not Saddle Back Church. I own a bible and read it daily. Ron Veheti is our Senior Pastor but not our God as Rick Warren is not a God. All human beings fall short of the glory of God but at least some are trying to help and minister to those who don't know him. I know Jesus because he lives inside me. Rick warren simply says we were each born 4 a purpose and that purpose is to glorify God with the talents he has given us. Controversy is inevitable especially if you are passionate about something. How about other authors? Anyone have any suggestions on some other books worth reading? |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Amen sister. If you Google Pastor Ron, you will find plenty of naysayers about him as well. PDL was the first Christian book I read and it lead me to get involved at VBF, which I highly doubt was the enemy's plan, lol. If you have the Holy Spirit, you are going to recognize false teachings yourself. PDL a has been criticized as "new-agey", whatever! If it crosses into mainstream and gets those who are unsaved to take even a glimpse at Christ, then that is fantastic. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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| Wow, go away for a while and come back to this? Just remember anyone can Misinterpret and it seems to me the bottom line is that this is all "this" is about. We all are only human! Truthfully even the quotes of things that are persay "wrong" can end up being a simple misinterpretation. It sounds to me that most everyone is just looking at the common sense of things or the "street smart" aspect of it all and pink is looking at the "book smart" aspect of it all. Again, like said before many times, this man is not our God and what we should be following is the book of God. My heart goes out to our sister in Christ that had one simple question and ended up in a battle. I am glad to hear you have already experienced the love of Jesus before this fiasco and therefore did not fear and run the other way. May God continue to bless your life. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Is it not an awesom gift that God has given us the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us? I am so glad that daily God's living word is revealed to me. I think that what Pink is saying is just being taken wrong. The Bible tells us to study and show ourselves approved. Pink, is only revealing what he has studied. The Holy Spirit reveals to us what we need to know. I will say that because God loves us so much that He will use aything to lead us closer to Him. I have read books, and met people, and experienced things that maybe were not all philosophically correct in ther presentation but God is a big God and His Holy Spirit leads us int what He wants revealed to us. It is good to share thigs out of love. I think that tat is all that is being done here. I know of four people that read that book and had given their lives over to Jesus. Even if the doctrine is not all correct they repented of their sins and gave their life over to Jesus. For that I rejoice!!!
May all of you be blessed! |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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I am trained in philosophy, apologetics, and theology. I am often concerned about popular speakers and authors in Christianity who make mistakes that upset the Christian perspective. But quite frankly nothing I'm seeing in Warren's works (that I've read) are terribly objectionable (from those thoughts that are clear to me anyway). Even taking the following "contrast," I find almost nothing that contradicts the "Scriptural doctrine." Look at the two columns again and ask yourself Couldn't both be true?
Church Growth Movement doctrine | Scriptural doctrine | God is in the big things | God is in the still small voice I think God is "in" everything (including the "big things - Eph. 4:6) and is also that still, small voice in our hearts. | Seeks to answer 'what's in it for me'? | To follow Christ, deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him This confuses self-interest with selfishness. Seeking purpose and meaning to our own lives may be in our self-interest, but it's not selfishness - which is what this doctrinal admonition is against. | Avoids doctrines that offend
| Rebuke, exhort, instruct according to scripture. I avoid certain things because it isn't prudent in my witness (i.e., I don't typically mention in my evangelism "Oh, by the way, homosexuality is wrong."). Perhaps we need more detail here to make a final ruling. | Avoid being associated with absolutes that the world sees as foolish | God saves through the foolishness of the message preached My previous comment above applies here. | Open the door to the masses | Few will enter the narrow gate Can't both be the case that when we open the door to the masses that only a few enter? | Fashion the church so the world can accept the message | Woe when the world speaks well of you The Bible sanctions us to tailor the Gospel message so as to make it palatable to hearers (there are four gospels after all aimed at different audiences): "I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some" (1 Cor 9:22. What the Bible forbids is altering the Gospel for the sake of its hearers (i.e., saying that Jesus was a white guy, or that he was rich, or that he was a pluralist, etc...) | Leadership is based on business CEO model | You will not be as the gentiles in leadership Again, both of these are true. Handle some church matters like a n ethical business but don't be a secular humanist like many gentiles are. | Create change by stirring up dissatisfaction and create irritation This might be a trumped up charge. | The Lord hates those who sow discord among the brethren | Visualize and create reality Don't confuse visualizing a goal with New Age visualization. A painter "visualizes" his piece, is he now a New Age guru? | Trust in God | Seek to build a large church I'm still trying to see the problem here. The world of evangelism is quite a large church potential and it's the Great Commission. | Seek God's kingdom and righteousness | Lift your banner high | Humble yourself before God and He will lift you up. Not self-contradictory. | Begin by launching Unclear | You begin by dying to self | God is seen in the community by making a big scene or a great noise | God is found in the still small voice Did Joshua and those marching around Jericho hear about this? The Old Testament (and some New Testament) is filled with examples of God's external influence. | The end justifies the means Unclear with respect to Warren. | To obey is better than sacrifice | Success is measured by numbers, buildings and programs
| Faithfulness belongs to man but the outcome is determined by God God's success can be found in great numbers or in the few. I was saved by a Billy Graham crusade - quite a large worlwide phenomenon, but Graham is faithful nonetheles ... and successful! |
I think we need to make sure we target those that truly do compromise the gospel. From what I can gather, I don't see any good reason to think Warren is a non-Christian. What I do find is that he does soften his evangelism in the public eye when put under the microscope, but that's a negligible offense. Have you seen Joel Osteen lately? Now there's a target for you . . . |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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| this pink needs to read the word a little more carefully whenhe is speaking about judgement. the word says when you judge make a righteous or right judgement. we are to hold all our brothers and sisters accountable when it comes to the word of god. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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I think everyone needs to take a step back and take a look at the whole picture here. I've never joined in on these but am havin a good time reading opinions. I am glad there is a forum for us as a church to be able to discuss matters whether small or large. I love that God made everyone so different! I don't know how you all will take this but I think anyone has the right to give their opinion or fact on any subject they feel led to give. I believe as Christian brothers and sisters we should hear each other out without shutting up. I did read some of the book and my small group completed the bible study on video w/workbook a few years back and I enjoyed it, but don't remember too much about it so am not going to challenge any facts or anyone's opinions. But I will say this, if at anytime I am led by the Holy Spirit to say anything about any subject I hope I can come direct with it to my church family without being judged or shot down for giving it. I agree w/ Sterling and love the way it was put.
So with much love Mr Panther I will say......be nicer on how you word your thoughts and they would be greater received. If you go straight to attack mode the only thing your gonna get is attacked!
Oh and PS everyone.... don't take anything personal, when your relationship is strong in the Lord you will know that it's not worth getting your feathers ruffled, it's just gonna go in one eye and right out the other. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Pink: You could have been received a lot better had you not been so self-righteous and arrogant about it. If you came to people in humility and presented your "facts" in a humble spirit maybe you would have been taken a little more seriously Real Mature Christians know that and it doesn't take years of being on Earth to know that, it takes real spiritual maturity. You really do not sound like one who is interested in edifying people you only sound like some bitter guy who dwells in strife to be honest. And likes to be seen as "more mature" than everyone else age doesn't mean anything when it comes to spiritual immaturity you can be 100 and a Christian for 99 years of those and still be a little baby Christian.....
You can add your opinion all day long and YES, you are very welcomed to state your opinion but it is just that and even if you are right which I don't think you are. God is big though and He will Romans 8:28 everything anyway right or wrong.
But please (everyone) we should try to speak from a loving spirit that cares for others and not our own ego. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Yep I seen Joel Osteen. He is not like his father who was an word faith pastor. If you compromise the savation message then nothings else matters.
Stacy.... you can find specks from everybody . But the big question here is "can someones teaching can be tested by the scriptures to see if it is true. Teachers in heaven will be more judge by God for their teaching. Ask Pastors Ron, Jim , Doug about if their teachings be tested by scripture...
Angela..I lived under the willow creek teachings at Central for 6 years i couldnt beileve my eyes the way they were teaching the word.....My spiritual gift is decernment. I knew this movement way long ago. I just want to warn people about this false teaching which gives people false sense of hope, gives people a different gospell, a different way to salvation. If the purpose drivin life is the way to salvation then why dont you use the book of mormon, the koran, the new world translation.
In the last days people will turn away from the faith to hear what itching ears want to hear". Theres more people that are attending churches theese days, but why do we see more immoral people theese days?
Phil |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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Amy its not my oppinion or anyones oppionion it what the Bible says. I tried to warn people but each person had to decide in their heart . Not all roads lead to heaven.
Why do we all aggree that the word faith movement is false. Why do we all agree that mormonism is a cult and their message is false. but when something like this comes into Churches why we turn a deaf ear and not test this new teaching by the Bible to see if it holds up against scripture. Im NOT judging Rick Warren..im judging what Rick Warren teaches. Rick warren used to be a Southern Baptist. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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| That has nothing to do with the way you presented your information. |
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| December 17, 2007 |
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| I didn't say you were judging Rick |
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| December 18, 2007 |
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What I find funny is that she posted scripture. There is only a picture of the book. I don't know Rick Warren, I do not have a degree in theology (Much respect to S. L. Guthrie), I can hardly remember where I put my keys. But I do know that this post has gotten WAAAAAAAY off topic. Please get back on topic, which are the scriptures at hand. This was not a post asking you thoughts on Rick Warren. The best way to get rid of a troll is not to feed it. (FYI: troll is not a derogatory name to anyone here, it is what the forums call a user who hops into a thread and starts talking off topic. Feeding a troll refers to those who actually respond.) A person off topic should be ignored. Pink: Do not reply to me about my post in this thread. Use Private Message. I know you well enough to know you have much to say. |
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| December 18, 2007 |
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EXACTLY! The picture of the book got put in my blog because I am not quite sure what I am doing and where to put these things but I'm learning. However I did like the book and have put up a couple of other "pictures" of books that some of you might not like. however their are millions of books in print that millions are reading you take what you want and leave the rest. Rick Warren's book being compared to the Holy bible? You gotta be kidding me! Ha! But that was kinda fun, I don't get to do alot of discussing most of the time and its nice to hear other peoples hearts. |
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| December 27, 2007 |
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LOL J
Thanks for ending the Madness!
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