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| Question - If witchcraft and sorcery are evil, why is this series being read in Christian homes? I was under the impression that witchcraft was demonic and should be feared (in the sense that we should flee from it b/c we know it is not of God). Since the Harry Potter series seems to be accepted by many Christians across the country, maybe I'm missing something about these books. Aren't we opening up our minds and the minds of our children to a world they should not be apart of? Thanks in advance for your comments and I hope I didn't offend any of my friends with this question, but I'm truly concerned and confused. |
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| Julie,
I too am puzzled a bit. Christians far more spiritually mature than myself allow their children to read Harry Potter. Ours have not. Although I don't speak too loudly, they have been exposed to The Chronicles of Narnia and Fellowship of the Ring books. (not the movies) ~mike |
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| Hi Julie,
Excellent question! I agree with you, and I've also been bothered by christians who quickly brush off objections to HP, such as you expressed.
The main argument I've heard from serious christians as to why they might tolerate, or even embrace, Harry Potter is that they think it's great literature. I've even heard it called an "instant classic" which is a contradiction in terms (classics by definition are old--at least 50 years but usually much older--and have proven their worth over time). I read the first HP volume shortly after it came out, just so I would have an idea what everyone was talking about. The writing style was witty and funny, the characters well-drawn and memorable, and the plot kept one's attention up to the last page.
BUT, are those the most important features? Of course not. The two main reasons I could never recommend HP books are: (1) the entire context is one of a very real-seeming world where normal kids participate in evil practices as though they were "normal" (even though they are indeed wicked and not normal), (2) the character of Harry Potter himself is a bad example, especially his pattern of winning the day by breaking rules.
I grew up (in the '60s and '70s) reading a lot of books with themes of magic and witchcraft. These were considered ordinary children's literature. I loved such books, especially those involving King Arthur and Merlin the magician.
However, I wish an adult had been aware of what I was reading and had warned me about the bad effects of reading such things. Whatever a person reads becomes part of their imagination. I would imagine magical things happening--many psychologists call this a normal childhood phase. But what magical thinking encourages is an immature lust for secret power and immediate gratification. It reinforces qualities that are OPPOSITE to the godly ones of faith, resisting temptation, humility, obedience, patience, and so on.
The main passage of Scripture that all christians should be aware of in evaluating HP is:
Deuteronomy 18:9-14 "When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so."
We could interview individuals who are now christians and once were involved in the occult or witchcraft, and ask them their opinion based on experience. I can tell you what they say, because I have talked to several such people. DON'T EVER DABBLE WITH ANY OF IT, NOT AN OUIJA BOARD, NOT AN ASTROLOGICAL CHART, NOT ANY OF IT.
I think we also would do well to extend our perspective further and remember that there are additional sins that are just as bad as sorcery. In the words of the prophet Samuel to the evil King Saul:
1 Sam. 15:23 "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee...."
For more than just my opinion, here are two good links on HP:
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/harrypotter.html
http://www.arcapologetics.org/book%20reviews/book10.htm
Julie, I would encourage you not to be influenced by christians who lack discernment, logic, knowledge of the Lord and His will, courage, self-control, conviction, the leading of the Holy Spirit, or whatever you want to call it, in their indulgence in Harry Potter. I've no doubt your conviction is from the Lord--follow Him in it!
In His love,
~Lynn, a.k.a. cascadeofwater
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Sue |
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February 26, 2007 at 6:08pm |
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| Julie,
Nice blog my fellow alto worshipper of the Most High God! I totally agree with you, I have been dumbfounded about this one myself. My kids absolutely are not allowed to read these books. However, I have learned in my Christian walked that it is not wise to try and impose my convictions on other people. (Except for the sinners that are under my roof :) The best we can do is pray that His people would be wise with what they allow in their lives. I think of the children's song I brought up in another blog. "Oh be careful little eyes what you see (or is that read?)
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject.
Sue |
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| Julie,
How funny you blog about this subject! Just recently we stopped allowing Janie to read HP books for these very reasons. I have never been a fan of HP at all. She brought one home from the school library one day and I was none too pleased about it. Tom felt they were just stories and that it wouldn't be that big of a deal to allow her to read them. She was on book 3 and I had to put a stop to it due to a strong conviction from the Lord. Tom and I sat down and talked and I told him how I felt. He was in complete agreement with the things I brought up about witchcraft and sorcery and felt bad that he hadn't seen it in that light before. It is so easy to think that certain things aren't that big of a deal. A wise friend once told me to ask myself this question before watching anything, reading anything, and listening to anything..... Would I be watching, reading, or listening to this if Jesus were sitting right next to me in the room? Funny thing is, He is always sitting in the room with us, we just don't SEE Him. That question impacts me every, single day now.
In Him,
Mary :-) |
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| OOPS! I blogged this under Tom's profile. Sorry..... He was already signed in and I forgot. |
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| Julie, I just starred your blog. I too am puzzled by the attention to the HP books. But I do concur with what Mike wrote!
Blessings,
Laura |
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Julie |
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February 27, 2007 at 8:04am |
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| Thanks for your responses. It's nice to know I'm not alone. Another question - As stated above in Deut (also in Gal.) witchcraft and sorcery are forbidden...so are Christians under a false sense of security that these books don't have a negative effect b/c they are fiction? Do Christians watch shows like Charmed b/c it is also ficticious? Isn't this a way that Satan lowers our guard on areas that we would typically be wary against? I just envision our kids coming into contact with real people that participate in these kinds of practices, and instead of fleeing from them, they will be intrigued.
I too have read the Chronicles of Narnia, and the difference I see is the witchcraft was clearing being performed by the evil characters, not the good ones, therefore it associates it with being wrong. But that being said, is it wrong too?
Also, I understand what Sue was saying about trying to impose our convictions on people, but aren't there things that we must speak up against? Then if people don't agree, we can't judge them or condemn them, but pray that God will open their eyes or change our views b/c we are in error. |
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| Such are some of the hard decisions we have to make in our walk through this fallen world. I have read the Book of Mormon and the Quran. Does that mean I have opened myself up to some new avenue for sin to enter into my life? Maybe. On the other hand, when I take cabs around DC, I can talk to a lot of the drivers about their beliefs and they open up to mine. My kids were interested in the Harry Potter books as long as they were "forbidden". Then, when I said read them, one of them did and lost interest very fast because it wasn't scripturally based (she was nine at the time). We even went and rented one of the movies to watch. We got bored half way through it and turned it off. I only share this because, I really think it boils down to the motive of your heart. Why is someone reading the books, seeing the movies, etc?
My wife (Christian book store owner) challenged a customer in her store one day. He was an avid Harry Potter fan. She made a deal with him. She would read the Harry Potter series if he would read the New Testament. They both did. He is saved now. Small price to pay, IMHO. Once again, it boils down to the motive of the heart. |
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| Lisa and I like to walk our kids through life, offering a play-by-play commentary on every aspect of it. We feel that there are some things worth "sheltering" our kids from, while there are other things that are worth walking them through. We felt that pop-literature like the HP books were one of the things we'd like to allow exposure to rather than forbid so that we could weigh in on it. We took the same route with Lord of the Rings, and Narnia, well it's a CS Lewis gospel-allegory classic! Of course we wanted them to see it.
The result has been that they have "been there, done that"; the intrigue of the forbidden has been swallowed up by a yawn, and they no more believe that HP is real or relevant than they believe that the easter bunny is real or relevant. They do however believe that Jesus is!
At the end of the day, each parent has to ask God for wisdom as stewards over the children that we've been entrusted to raise. All our kids will be exposed to the full brunt of life eventually, so we feel it's safer for them to have measured exposure over time with us at the parenting-helm than to have them find out things from other sources later without our input.
But again, that's just us, and we would never condemn any parent for forbidding HP. You make the call!
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Sue |
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February 27, 2007 at 2:46pm |
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| Mark's comment kinda adds to what I was trying to say. That different people are in different situations and have different reasons for doing/not doing certain things. I specifically know this from having a non-believing husband. There are many things that I allow my kids to do as a compromise to Tommy. If it were just me, it would be a different situation. And I wouldn't want anyone judging me over these things. Final thought.....Different people have different circumstances, judge not lest ye be judge :) In the Love of Christ, Sue |
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| Mark n Lisa's approach is valid. And very time-intensive. Many other parents, unwilling or unable to devote the necessary time, say "Go ahead," and then leave their kids to navigate a landscape of worldly, confusing messages and images by themselves. Once kids have been exposed you can't simply hit rewind. Laura and I just feel we can't be too careful. ~mike |
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| Mike,
Your last comment is oh, sooooo valid. I think Mark and I agree, for the most part, on how to approach these things with our own kids, but your point brings in the rest of society who doesn't have the same foundation as those kids raised in a biblical worldview home.
As a quick side note, when we were married and started to raise kids, we moved into the most remote part of Maryland I could find and still be able to work in DC...well, that isn't quite true, we owned a Christian bookstore and we live close to it...but there was some logic for where we landed in our house. There was no cable tv in that part of Maryland yet, we were removed from many of the challenges of life that are so easy to fall into. Sure, we have to drive 35 miles to WalMart, but most of the time, we don't. I give you all of this only for the background of what I will tell you next...One day when my daughter was 9, I took her into DC to work with me. She was excited and distracted everybody for the full morning. We went out to lunch at a local Boston Market with some of the folks from the office. On the walk back she looked at this thing on the curb of the sidewalk and asked me what it was. Everybody laughed at her, but I knew she was serious. She had no clue what a parking meter was. That is when I realized I can keep them sheltered for a while, but if they are going to be able to make a difference in this generation for our Lord, then they need the exposure to have wisdom.
My daughter, now 11, loves to read. She looked at a Harry Potter book, started reading it, and said it made no sense to her why it was so popular. I asked her what she would say to someone today based on this thread. Her response sounded a lot like Mitzi's.
Back to my point here...Mike, you make a very valid point that this approach is time consumnig and not practical to this society and generation today. The best approach we can teach openly, I think, is what Lynn has shown...stay away from it all. It doesn't build one up in Christ - to use some jargon. Then, if needed, God will provide wisdom in a case by case basis. |
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| Harry Potter has no place in a Christian home...not because of what is written but because why...it is a book that in all way highlights witchcraft and sorcery. There were demonic elements in Narnia and Lord as well but what is the difference? Intent. Tommy Ray Odell writes Christian novels using gnomes, elves, and dragons...but they are thematically obvious in their intent. Stephen Lawhead is another excellent Christian author.
Why then do Christians still watch Harry Potter: because unfortunately American Christianity is about as corrupt as another old religious system that I can think of...we don't preach the cross bears a price and we stay away from preaching the truth concerning the devil and his power.
Satan operates on an authority basis in our lives. If we give him the authority by denying God's word to oppress us, whether we believe it or not, he takes free reign...and until we make it right...he continues...
Our senses are the windows to our soul and whatever we allow our senses to perceive will take root. If we listen to sexual music, we will deal with sexual problems. If we subject ourselves to demonic entertainment... |
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| May I respectfully disagree with my webyouthpastor friend? This is difficult because I really like many of the things he's written.
I guess what troubles me the most about that latest post and ones like it is that we seem to be giving the devil a little too much authority and power. He’s slick, sure. But he’s no match for the cross, or any home where the cross of Christ is esteemed.
Paul teaches in Colossians that the death and resurrection of Christ “disarmed” the unseen powers of evil (sometimes called “authorities, principalities, and powers"). And in doing this, Jesus “made a public spectacle” of these powers, "triumphing over them by the cross.” The force of Paul’s use of the word “disarm” depicts for us an image of an enemy soldier completely stripped of all his weapons, wandering in helpless vulnerability.
Fellow Believers, please know: The work of Christ has sufficiently exposed the deception of Satan as he works through the structures of existence—in the realm of the seen and unseen—and that certainly includes the works of fiction.
Having read the Potter books, my kids are no more dissuaded by the fertile imagination of one authors’ pen than they are convinced that the devil is a guy in a red suit with a goatee and a pitchfork. We choose to believe in the power of the cross, much more powerful than “sexual music” and imaginary wizards.
I think Potter does have a place in the Christian home… to demonstrate the power of Christ and His cross over any authority, power, or principality (at the most), and over fictitious characters (at the very least).
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Sue |
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February 27, 2007 at 9:34pm |
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| I must say, that I have never read the books. |
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| I'm a 17 year old kid who has read all the HP books. Why? One reason is that there aren't as many great Christian authors. There's Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye, but eventually, they can get old. Another reason? Because I was curious. Did it change the way I viewed God or witchcraft or about anything? No.
Another reason why I don't mind reading HP books is because of the Bible. Balaam. Remember him? God used Balaam, a non-Israelite prophet, the type of the people who the Israelites were commanded to avoid to bless them. I'm not saying that the HP books are good. They can be used for good. I'm not a scholar, and I haven't spent time searching how the HP books are good, but I believe that God will use everything, even witchcraft and soccery (i dunno if i spelled that right) for His glory as he did in Numbers. |
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| My kids love Star Wars. They don't think they can wield Force powers. We watch the Wizard of Oz. They don't think they can click their heels and wish themselves somewhere else. Cinderella's fairy godmother doesn't inspire them to explore witchcraft.
I was an active fantasy and science fiction reader as a child - the Hobbit is directly responsible for creating a love of reading in me at 10 - and (gasp) I played Dungeons and Dragons. These things, HP included, don't blur the line between the real and the imaginary, which is where problems are most likely to occur. We don't watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer or the Witches of Eastwick, for example, which are both based in our reality.
Like anything else, however, if it would cause you to stumble... stay away from it. Discernment and the leading of the Holy Spirit are certainly in order. Treat it sensibly with your children so that you don't create an idol of something and give it power that it doesn't have on its own.
I think this article does a rather thorough and balanced treatment of the subject.
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| Mark,
Strong words, to actually say HP has a place in the Christian home. I won't say HP has no place, but I wouldn't go to the other extreme either. Parents use many things to teach their kids. What is important isn't what we use to teach our kids, or even how. It is the heart we have been given by God (and by the grace of God) to reach out to our kids for God. Amen? ~mike |
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| Mark, we are always allowed to disagree...the whole point of "as iron sharpens iron..." is that the two never leave the same...both sides are effected by the confrontation...so with me at least don't ever hesitate to disagree.
In reference to your comment, I agree with your use of sripture to claim that Christ has power over all but add these to your philosophy and tell me what you think
Pro 23:6-8 Do not eat the bread of him who has an evil eye, nor desire his dainty foods; 7 for as he thinks in his heart, so is he; Eat and drink, he says to you, but his heart is not with you. 8 Your bit which you have eaten, you shall vomit up, and spoil your pleasant words.
Mat 6:21-24 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye. Therefore if your eye is sound, your whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if your eye is evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No one can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 proving what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 4:27 neither give place to the Devil.
Anyone who has read my stuff at any point should be able to detect as I have said many times that there is very little we cannot do...again all things are lawful but not profitable. Why then would I take such a stance against Harry Potter?
For each scripture above, there are 10s more. I have been involved in a deliverance ministry for 6+ years...not to seem whacky...called Cleansing Stream...it would suprise you how many Christians are being bound by things they refuse to seperate from because of what they like doing.
I state without apology that for many of the cases I have been involved with, it has been because of what they are watching and listening to...nothing more. You cannot listen to sexual music and not expect some form of arrousal...if you dissagree where is the line...are you telling me you can watch porn and not do the same...
One cannot but agree with that...it must be then when one subects himself to any thematic element, not because of his weak mind, he will be effected in some way.
The fact is while we claim all of these freedoms and powers we have over darkness, we are not to say b/c Christ is in me, I can mess with things of the world. His power is not perfected by our testing it, it is perfected by our weakness in situations He has placed us in...
If you were sent to Haiti (as I have been) you will no doubt be in the middle of voodoo but you through Christ regardless of their chanting will have all authourity over it. However if the same person goes b/c he chooses to experience a voodoo ritual, regardless he has subjected himself and has given place to the enemy.
We are to be seperate...in entertainment as well. I am an entertainer and there are many venues I have been asked to play but b/c of what there in volved in I have had to look at another chance to get big and walk away.
I am also a fantasy dude...and I will agree that we cannot also get involved in witchhunts and turn every series like starwars, cinderella, and so on into the devil's trying to steal our mortal souls. Where then do we draw the line? Blatan witchcraft is very powerful...even with believers who don't understand its full impact.
Mark, do you feel that placing porn mags in your home will also demonstrate the power of Christ over sin?
I occassionaly have to eat crow, I have found it tastes like chicken and for me to say what one can or cannot do is wrong but I also feel the responsibility to state what one should or should not do. And I recognize that not all are effected by what they watch, but many are and that cannot be ignored.
I don't stay away from praying for the sick b/c many don't get healed, I pray b/c many do...same here.
Michael, the scripture is not refering to you stumbling, it's about others stumbling...and if a person who has dabbled in any form of witchcraft sees those books will he stumble???
Itchychris...bro the mentality of I want to do this and I can't find it in the church so I will use whatever I can find...will get you in trouble in this walk. Part of being a Christian is being seperated from the things of this world. I have listened to many frustrated Christian musicians over the years rationalize there decision to go secular by saying they need to play and the bars let them play. Wrong answer. If we are looking into this world for fulfillment, we will be getting ourselves in trouble. That is not to say we cannot enjoy stuff...but if we have to make excuses why we do it...watch out. I watch NASCAR b/c...just b/c.
So to all, I restate that at the end of the day, we will all do what we feel is right concerning matters that we don't feel Biblical clarity in. Would I question the level of faith of a brother if I walked in his home and there were Harry Potter books...not for a moment...I have friends who are into them. But I have seen too much in my walk that I cannot ignore... |
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| Porn and Potter? Apples and oranges. Snow White and gang violence? Again, an unrealistic comparison, kind of like, well, fact and fiction.
And what about Snow White? Take a hardline on Potter and carry it to its logical end -- the result: All believers should purge their homes of many of the Disney cartoons as well, lest they find themselves demon possessed.
BTW: Mike Hickman offers a well-balanced post and his link is worth the click. My other Mike friend raises a good point too. I hope none of us misses the main point however, and that's the power of the Cross over pop-fiction and the mighty influence of the Holy Spirit to give us the wisdom we need to raise our precious children.
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| Ahh...not porn and potter, but porn and witchcraft I am speaking of. And by the way, I do carefully censor what Disney cartoons my children watch. And the reference to porn is simply an analogy...no way would I say a person who watches Harry Potter's movies is in anyway similar to a person who is trapped in pornography...mark, I am not that off course...as I said, crow tastes like chicken. My point is simply where do we draw the line. Apples and oranges as far as sin, I completely agree...This is more of a conviction stance...and it is obvious we are on opposing sides of the fence...but then I enjoy a good bar-b-que with my neighbors and they are on the other side of the fence too. Looks like we're neighbors...cheesy but no need for offense...
Mike's point was well-balanced, I do agree...
And I agree that the Cross is more powerful than anything this world can understand. However, I will revert to the statement that we are not supposed to test the power of the cross by approaching boundaries that we are or are not sure exist.
So to him who has faith it is not sin (concerning matters of conviction where the Bible is not specific of course).
You seem to be a solid mature Christian who actually uses the organ between the ears...I as well may partake of certain behaviors and activities that for others, especially young or wounded believers, I would advise to stay away from. This is more of my stance.
Like I said, if I walked into your house (which I would enjoy the opportunity to meet other believers) and saw the Harry Potter books/movies, I would not think any judgmental thing...but if you called me at 1am about the constant nightmares your child was having one of the first pieces of advice would be to purge your home from any and all materials that could be involved with witchcraft.
You cannot tell me I am wrong b/c I have done it too often and it has been successful. The enemy will take whatever door he can...and people are very mistaken when it comes to knowing their own strengths. |
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| Well said! I like the way you've distinguished between personal convictions and essentials. And I agree that people ought not overestimate their own strength. For without Christ we can do nothing. Thank you for this post brother! |
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| And thank you Julie for inciting a hearty spiritual thinkfest! Weighing weighty issues is an exercise that's great for spiritual health. As fellow seekers on a journey, other perspectives give us opportunities to hear angles we may have missed. And this gives us the opportunity to either change our minds about previously held convictions or at least really think through the things we believe. Blessings! |
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| Mark, I am amazed at the number of people who have no clue of why they believe what they believe...
Julie, I think this is heck of a blog...as stated by Mark.
We need to be able to bump heads...growth always comes through conflict when all sides are responsible in their approaches |
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Julie |
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February 28, 2007 at 10:10am |
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| I really appreciate everyone that weighed in. I've stayed quiet struggling to express how I feel without coming across as "judging" someone else that doesn't agree with me. I guess I get confused with that statement. We need to stand up for our convictions and express them to others who may not agree. I just don't want people to get upset with me, but on the other hand, I must speak up if I feel the Lord leading me. It is then up to them to do with it what they will. Lynn and webyouthpa really expressed how I feel about this issue very well. My sister and I constantly had nightmares when we moved into a new house when I was young, and it wasn't until my mother prayed over every room for deliverance that they ceased completely, so I understand what webyouthpa is talking about and maybe that is why I am so guarded when it comes to these types of things.
And Mark, although I may not agree with you on this particular issue, I do respect what you said about not sheltering our children too much and guiding them while we can through life. Coming from a strict Christian home in which I rebelled, I do not want to be overcontrolling with my daughter.
May we always look to God first for guidance and then our fellow believers.
The thought I would leave everyone with regarding this blog is this ..Are the hours spent reading these books that have the characters participating in acts that are forbidden to Christians worth it? |
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| Julie: One of the things I love about you and the people at Calvary is that our unity doesn't require uniformity. On any given Sunday I look out at a great group of people who are all kind of feeling their way through life and we all are kind of struggling to figure it all out.
Your last paragraph sounds like a new blog entry... on best practices time management for believers! I realized how important this topic is last Sunday when I talked about our need to create space in our lives to meditate in the Scriptures. As I was talking, I could almost hear people thinking, "But Mark, how? Tell me where I can find time in my busy schedule!" I wish I had prepared some how-to's to go with those ought-to's. So maybe this Sunday we'll tackle that.
Godspeed sister. Go Colts!
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| I would agree...except for the colts part |
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| I believe that magic, in any form is of the devil! The Bible clearly tells us to stay away from anything remotely close to this. People are so into doing what feels good, they will lie, even in the name of the Lord! This is so sad. Magic, fortune telling, Ouija Boards, seances, Daily Horoscopes, Yoga, Judo, Fortune Cookies, Water Divination, ect are all in this class along with many more. The devils playground is a dangerous place to play! My husband is doing a series on this very subject on Yahoo 360. Here is the link...
http://360.yahoo.com/agape_giver
May the Lord bless you all.... |
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| A good, Christian alternative to these books, is a series by Donita K. Paul
http://www.dragonkeeper.us/
Check them out...they are very good
Zach |
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| To be honest, I thought the Harry Potter series was harmless at first. I don't have children and I thought it was a harmless fantasy like Cinderella. I was watching TBN one day (John Hagee was the host) and he had an excerpt from an interview of the author of the Harry Potter series. She's a self proclaimed witch and was quoted as saying "...Christians are weak and stupid". As soon as I found out that this lady was in fact a witch by her own admission and she felt believers were weak and stupid it openend my eyes. Some Christians were like me and didn't know how this subtle introduction to the occult isn't good for children. Blessings, thebrokenvessel |
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| Another awesome sci-fi author is stephen lawhead, he is relatively unheard of in america (english) but is a sold out Christian who puts the current well known Christian authors to shame. Check him out, you have to special order his books but I recommed beginning with his dragon trilogies, then check out his celtic trilogies...then you will also be hooked...space junkies check out his empyrion trilogy. It is amazing and the thematic elements are unmistakable...with no cheese. |
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| Ted Dekker is another good one |
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| Just to add...As a brand new Christian some years ago, HP was just being introduced to our children. My boys wanted to read, but they were too young to read the vocabulary (grade level was too high). So like any caring mother, I began to read it to them. Each night I would read a half a chapter. When I got to about chapter 3-4 on the 1st book, I stopped reading it to the boys. I told them something didn't "feel right" about the books. I decided to read it all my self first (hind sight is a terrible thing) and get back with them on it. I was VERY disturbed about the content in the book. I told my boys a few days later, that I had read it and it was not of God (duh). They never asked to read it again, never asked to see the movie or anything associated with HP.
My favorite movie when I was a child was Mary Poppins. Recently a movie called Nanny McPhee came out on DVD. I watched it and LOVED it. It was like a modern day Mary Poppins! I (once again) showed the movie to my kids (now preteen and teen). My youngest got up after about 15 minutes of the movie and said "I can't watch this". I said "Why?" He said "It's witchcraft". Before I could respond and defend this movie, conviction came over me. What do you say to that? He's right. So, I just said "Okay, I'm sorry." He was very non-judgemental toward me, but said "Mom, you always say 'it's either black or white, of God or of the enemy...no gray areas'..." I hate when my kids REALLY are listening.
FYI I am also pretty cautious about what my kids view on line or on TV. My prayer is that they would have an acute awareness for themselves on what is "profitable" for them...not just "permissible". Reality is not what they do in and around my presence, but what they do when no one is around....self-control. The other lesson (for me) is to carefully evaluate the things that were present in my past and so easily accepted (Mary Poppins) against the Word. Not growing up in a Christian home...everything was permissible. Also, Wizard of Oz was my 2nd fav. movie...lol
Just wanted to share this humbling lesson my kids taught me.
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| yuk we should stay away from all that belong to the evil one. |
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| Julie;
I am so thankful someone mentioned this. The second I heard about Harry Potter God stirred up His Holy Spirit in me with "Warning Signs". I knew it was not of God instantly. Since God blessed me with discernment in these regards I always pray that He will bless me with discernment in all regards to the things of this world. That is why I just boxed up and am getting rid of all my 'Worldly' DVD's (if you can remember my blog)... If we desire what God desires I fully believe that He will bless us with a discerning Spirit.
For all Christian Parents I pray that they truly seek out the Lord to determine and discern what is good for them and their children. I know that we cannot shelter them from the world, but we can certainly use this example to show them God's desires for us.
Blessings
Kelly |
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| I am curious why we follow the thought processes that state we are not to shelter our children...I realize some children will rebel...that is what children do...but if they are sheltered to some extent, their choices for rebelling are also limited...my children are very young so I do not speak as one who has understanding...but help me make the right choices...
I was not sheltered at all...and it has cost dearly |
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| we should tell our kids to stay away from that which is ungodly and teach them to fight a spiritual war what is god is great what is evil will take you to hell |
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| I am often accused of sheltering my boys. If now allowing windows to NOT be opened to the enemy is sheltering, then YES I do that (except when I don't allow the Holy Spirit to guide me as in the response I wrote above). But bringing reasoning and truth and explanation to our children about "Why" some type of media is not permitted must have Biblical backing. It kinda goes back to something WYP (Pat) said in another blog...we sometimes have no idea why we believe what we believe (paraphrased). We need to show our kids why we are filtering certain programs. Not that we "owe" them an explanation, but we need to teach them how to search the Instruction Manual on Life (the Word) for guidance.
Also, I am reminded of the song (Made Me Glad):
You are my shield
My strength, my portion
Deliverer
My shelter, strong tower
My very present help in time of need
If that's what the Lord is to us as our Parent
Shouldn't we take lead from Him?
3 For you have been my refuge,
a strong tower against the foe.
4 I long to dwell in your tent forever
and take refuge in the shelter of your wings.
Selah
5 For you have heard my vows, O God;
you have given me the heritage of those who fear your name.
Psalms 61:3-5
Sounds like instruction to me.
Love to all
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Sue |
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March 01, 2007 at 8:53am |
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| How about there is no place for HP in MY Christian home. Or I think HP has a place in MY Christian home. Whichever you think is best for you and your family. Ultimately this is a decision each family has to make for themselves. |
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| Well said Angie...and...how are you? I don't want my kids to be ignorant to the fact that there are bad things out there...but I cannot rationalize that a 17 year old is cognitively ready to make those decisions...not alone a 13 - 14 year old |
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| Hi Julie, you question is both relevant and pertinent. Many pastors and ministers are asking similar questions. One of the best books to answer the 'why' part of your question is 'The Emerging Church: Vintage Christianity For New Generations' by Dan Kimball. To give you an example, here is an excerpt...
Sexual, pluralistic, pop Christianity is in vogue
When famous musicians receive awards on television, we hear them over and over publicly giving enthusiastic thanks to God or Jesus for their success, even though their music, image, and lyrics may be in contradiction to the Bible. There is no hypocrisy here. It is simply their personal viewpoint of God and Jesus. They feel there is no problem with the contraction because to them, there isn't one.
An article in the San Jose Mercury News bore the headline, "Mixed Messages: Britney Spears' Naughty Image Belies Her Christian Values." The article reported Britney Spears' public claim to be a "born again Bible-belt Baptist." She even sang "Jesus Loves Me" at the audition that landed her a recording contract. Yet "she is a confusing postmodern mix of spiritualaity and teasing schoolgirl sexuality." We also see this troubling combination displayed in artists like Destiny's Child or Jessica Simpson, young women who are vocal about their Christian beliefs but send hypersexual messages through their appearance and lyrics. Beliefs blatantly contradict actions, and from a postmodern viewpoint, no harm is done.
So you see, it is a common issue that is not going to go away. Many people no longer see it as being wrong. It's a growing problem, and it isn't going to go away.
As Christians, as ministers, as lovers of souls, it is our responsibility to begin learning as much about these people and their issues so that we can begin to reach them for Christ, in a way that is evident in their daily lives.
You can also learn more from these websites:
http://www.EmergentVillage.com
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/february/11.35.html
You can also search for relevant terms:
Emergent Church
Postmodern Christianity |
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| People fill altar calls around America trying to find the will of God for their lives...yet the outspoken verses are over looked.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification, for you to abstain from fornication,
1Th 4:4 each one of you to know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor
1Th 4:5 (not in the passion of lust, even as the nations who do not know God),
1Th 4:6 not to go beyond and defraud his brother in this matter (because the Lord is the avenger concerning all these, as we also have forewarned you and testified).
1Th 4:7 For God has not called us to uncleanness, but in sanctification.
I hope we as the church get to the place where we do not look to this world to teach us what is ok concerning life applications...but, as Jonathan stated, it will always be a plague...
We are to be separated to God in all things plain and simple
There is an old saying "He is too heavenly minded to be any earthly good" Well, Jesus was heavenly minded...was He earthly good? |
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Cathy |
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March 02, 2007 at 12:46pm |
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| I really enjoy the Harry Potter books. I can't wait for the next one. I love Star Wars too!!! I loved playing Dungeons and Dragons....Oh and how I love Jesus !!!!! |
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| Cathy,
I will pray for you.
JUST KIDDING!!!!
(but still, the comment above does seem to slightly trivialize some of the struggles and convictions shared in this blog - although that's just my reading, others may see it differently...)
~peace & love in the one who rules our hearts, mike |
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| Cathy, are you trying to put a wrench in the gears of this blog??? Ha Ha. I know you love Jesus...this goes back to conviction...and we may share different approaches than you...I do not watch HP, I love Star Wars...I stay clear of dungeons and dragons but I love certain books that include them. I am sure that makes no sense but I go back to my original statement in motivation behind the work
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| I have read the Potter books, they have very little to do with real witchcraft. The books are fiction, and are known to be such and presented as such. What is truly disgusting is all the fictional materials that children are being subjected to in the biology classroom that are presented as factual.
The appeal of the Potter books are the characters, story, and humor. The magic is not really explored very deeply, and, in many ways, the magic is rediculous and not logically consistant. It is definitely not a primer for changing a well instructed and loved Christian child into a pagan. If you do your job, these books should pose no threat to your child.
If you want to keep Harry Potter out, you should also exclude Superman, and Star Wars too and a whole lot else, the only difference is that Potter calls it "wizardry and witchcraft." If it was called "prayer and fasting" and used angels to carry out the "spells/prayers" by the power of "God/magic" and took place on the planet "Gorgotron" far, far, away, Christian parents would be praising it. If such powers did exist, I do not think that the powers of themselves would necessarily be evil, but they don't so its moot. Real witchcraft is very different.
I personally choose very carefully what things I'm going to use my authority to exclude from my childrens' lives. God has ordained that we should be subject to temptations. It does no goood to completely shield children, it is also impossible, all those kids I knew growing up, only grew to resent their parents. Seeing or reading Harry Potter is no more sinful than reading or watching any work of fiction.
I wouldn't forbid the books (I would talk about them) but I don't think I would recommend them to my kids either...We homeschool so I have good control. |
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| Someone brought up the issue of sheltering our children...I think it is a good thing...each of us (and our children) will have a calling, a purpose, and it is our honor and duty to help them find it. I shelter my kids a lot, and as they are ready to confront the vices of the world, my wife and I introduce them in ways that glorify the Lord. I am not a master at this and I stumble through it most of the time. However, I will say that my kids have a keen sense of God in their day-to-day lives...certainly a lot more than I had at their age. Would I expose each of them to Harry Potter or the viles of witchcraft? Absolutely not. However, I will, when appropriate, bring them wisdom from the Bible as well as "wisdom" from the world so they can see the difference. IMHO, while kids are in the home, we should throw the TV away, inculcate the place with only things that glorify God, and provide them with an environment where they can only grow in the Lord...but most of us are not willing to make that kind of sacrifice... |
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| Some interesting reading on thoughts from others...
http://doableevangelism.com/2007/03/04/can-christians-be-friends-with-witches/ |
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| Voice in DC, I like your thoughts and intentions a lot. We seek to take the same approach in fact. If I could brainwash my kids in the Truth, I WOULD!! Why not, could it hurt? But since I can't, I love them continuously and give them 100 reasons to remain close to God for every 1 reason that comes along to stray. And the more I allow them exposure to reasons to stray, the harder my job becomes. But as they grow older, they are invariably and increasingly exposed to the world, and I will not spreed that process if I can help it!
The way I see it, I am shoring up the foundation upon which the rest of their lives will be built! ~mike |
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| Yep. Easily said, hard to do, and wondering every step of the way if that foundation is strong enough to hold them. I suppose in reality, the foundation has already been laid, we just teach them to build on that foundation properly so that in times of testing it stands as silver and gold and not as straw and wood...in either case escaping the fire, but one in much better shape than the other. |
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| The Harry Potter books are a re-telling of the Christ story, written by a Christian mother who has been gifted by God with an exceptional gift. Reading the books has brought a lot of people to Jesus, self-included.
There is a long tradition of Christian writers disguising the story of Christ in fantasy. JRR Tolkein's Lord of the Rings, and CS Lewis's Narnia tales are the biggest examples. |
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| Wow, I've never heard that before. Has anyone else? ~mike |
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| I have heard quite the opposite...
It is the greatest boost of magic, witchcraft, sorcery, and witches since the Middle Ages... Harry Potter is just cleverly disguised textbooks on witchcraft. The author (J. K. Rowling) of these books is a self-proclaimed witch and is not ashamed of what she is promoting.
http://biblia.com/wit/potter.htm
If you were led to the Lord through this movie...great...but that doesn't mean that God is approving of the movie...it just proves that God loves you. S&I if you have | |
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