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Jess, I have never heard that phrase before until now!
But to me anybody who argues with the word and denies the word will always lose! |
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Thanks Keith, I think the point the speaker was making is we can argue with non believers all we want, but doing so doesn't get them to accept Jesus, even if we "win" the argument. |
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| I think what gets me is the choice of words, being a soul-winner as I am " Argument" is not in the conversation, We shouldn't argue at all, Just state the fact and be on are way! I guess you had to be there to undrstand it in its fullest! |
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I totally understand, Keith. I think most of evangelism is presenting the Gospel to people in a loving way that respects them and their time. God will do the rest. If I make an argument out of it, I'm really not all that loving. I think reasoned philisophical debate (another meaning of the term argument), is sometimes helpful in presenting the Gospel, but people tend accept or reject what they hear based on how they are treated. |
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| Jess, I had never heard this either. Love your point about people responding according to how they were treated. |
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Or put another way..."nobody has ever been argued into heaven"
At least, that's the way I've heard it phrased. I think that's the same thing. And true! Seems to me demonstrations of love in action are more potent than any argument. ~mike |
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| I have not heard that before either - Jess or Mike's version. But I too think it is a great point. Seems to me that unbelievers are attracted to Christ because of the "fruit on the tree" of the person that is witnessing to them. In other words, if I am talking to a person about the love of Christ but do not have evidence of that in my life - my words are ineffective. If I speak to someone about our needs being met according to His riches in glory but do not have evidence of my needs being met - my words are again ineffective. |
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Thanks all =D You can't argue with love, or any of the fruit of the Spirit. I wonder if that's what Paul meant by "against such things there is no law."? |
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| It says in the Bible somewhere (First or Second Timothy?) about "avoiding foolish arguments and dissensions". I love to argue--so that's a hard thing for me to obey. |
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Glenn |
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January 31, 2008 at 10:36am |
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Mike commented "Seems to me demonstrations of love in action are more potent than any argument." I could not agree more here. We need to let them see our love by our actions, and share what God has done in our life along the way.
My boys participate in a program called REACH each summer. They spend a week making home repairs in poor communities and each lunch hour during the week they have a Bible study time and invite the new friend they are serving to join in. That in my mind is great evangelism.
peace |
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| Glen............love it ! (reach) |
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Glenn |
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January 31, 2008 at 10:47am |
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| Its a great organization. The kids, and young adults pay about 350 out of their own pockets to sleep on a classroom floor at a local school and work 8-10hr days for a week and share Jesus with the people they serve. What's not to love! My boys can't wait to go back each year. Actually my youngest does service projects in our home church to earn the money to go and do service projects for poor people in various communities around the country. |
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We can talk about our SAVIOR until we're blue (or in my case pink) in the face to a non-believer but if the words are not backed up by actions, then we are wasting our time.
I never argue the merits of my SAVIOR. I don't have to. What I do have to do is model his behavior as best I can.
i.e Telling of the fish and bread to a homeless person is one thing, but if you back it up with offering food to this person, that is GOD in action. Jesus is coming through loud and clear. We may not get a reaction back from that person at that particular moment, however we have left a mark on that person's mind by our ACTIONS...
CHRIST comes to all of us, but are we willing to open that door to let him in? |
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Suzette |
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January 31, 2008 at 11:09am |
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| Perhaps I'm late in commenting to this phrase, please forgive me. I happen to be very interested in apologetics - the defending of the Christian faith. Sounds like the phrase may have been pertaining to a meeting where a debate was taking place, and the christian lost the argument. I'm a believer in relationship evangelism. It was my relationships with people who were following Jesus which caused me to even listen to anything they had to say. However, I've been in a college classroom with a sociology professor who spoke of all sorts of world religions matter of factly, sometimes even with wonder. When he spoke of Christ, he was very insulting. Two other christians and myself did find the need to argue with him from time to time for the sake of the others who had to hear him. Sometimes arguing is fine, it's the motive of your heart which needs to be in check. And remember what Paul wrote in 2 Cor 5:11, "Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men..." You'll have to read the context of the whole chapter. An argument may be needed to persuade someone. |
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JessIAm |
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January 31, 2008 at 11:15am |
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Thanks Suzette, I agree that arguments may be needed on occasion. It shouldn't be the main way people communicate, because 9 times out of 10, arguing doesn't show love. I think we agree on that, too. |
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Glenn |
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January 31, 2008 at 11:17am |
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Suzette, Agreed, there is a time to argue, or defend what you believe and why, but I think the point is the argument is not what will bring a person to really know Jesus. Ultimately the Holy Spirit does the bringing to Christ, and of course he can use our arguments as well as our example of living in Jesus. We are to be ready to explain the hope that is in our heart in season and out.
peace |
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I'm in agreement with all the show the love and give your personal testimony.
People will mostly want to know what God can do (or has done) for them.
He saves sinners to save other sinners, so that they will no longer be a siinner. |
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| This is totally off topic. I really like the shading around people's names for each of the blog responses. |
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Glenn |
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January 31, 2008 at 2:55pm |
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| yeah, when did that start? And is your's blue because it is your blog? |
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| Maybe? Let's argue over whether it's appropriate ;) |
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Glenn |
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January 31, 2008 at 2:59pm |
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| I don't think it is blue because you are blue, but because you are the author of your blog. Voice in DC was also blue. I can't imagine you are both blue at the same time. Besides you never seem blue in your writing ; ) back at you. |
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Glenn |
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January 31, 2008 at 3:00pm |
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| besides how could we think you are blue with that smile. |
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| Ha! Well, I'm blue on the inside, sometimes.... |
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| Hmmm......well, I did throw in the towel....does that count? lol I am brainless right now. I dunno what else to say....nothing intelligent and deep anyways. |
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Rick |
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January 31, 2008 at 5:34pm |
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| Great topic, Jess. Personally, I think arguing just hinders the Holy Spirit from working on the person's heart. I used to frequent a forum that posted questions regarding religion and spirituality. It was also well attended by atheists and agnostics who were very vocal in their opinions and criticism of Christianity. After a time, I could no longer stomach going there - not because of the unbelievers but because of the believers and the way they engaged atheists in such unloving and vitriolic ways. There are very few instances where that kind of confrontation is appropriate in evangelism, if ever. |
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Gene |
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February 01, 2008 at 5:06pm |
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| I LIKE that, Jess. I've heard a version of that before. It's good to remember that all we can do is be faithful to "defend" the faith - it's not an offensive battle. The Spirit fights THAT fight for us. |
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Hello Keith from your 5-string picking friend,
I agree arguing (as we know it) does the body of Christ no favors.
GSBP |
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Here is the star I meant to add
GSBP |
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Kicken discussion; My EGO loves to win the arguement. ( of course EGO stands for edging God out). I think we are to love each other and to love others into the Kingdom. Our King didn't even argue with Pilot while he was being sentenced to the cross. You gotta love a lord of action my friends.
Blessings,
David |
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JessIAm |
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February 02, 2008 at 10:01am |
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| I like that about EGO dave. Another one I've heard is -ISM stands for I, Self, Me. I notice I argue most when I feel the most dogmatic. DogmatISM isn't such a Godly thing, in my opinion. |
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JessIAm |
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February 04, 2008 at 8:23am |
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| I agree jairah20, a arguing with people is pretty tiring! God can deal with people in ways I can't even approach. |
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An 'argument' should not be viewed as a 'fight' or 'war of words'. Its like a court case. When I read the writings of Paul, it reminds me of a court 'argument'. When two or more people discuss about their own faith, it will still be argument. It need not be a fight over faith. There are instances when arguments have won and people have turned to Christ. |
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Howdy Ragland,
I agree there can be differences over the term "argument." I've presented my faith to people without arguing with them in any sense. They seem much more open to hearing what I have to say when I'm not trying to convince them of anything. I think that let's God do more work in their hearts. He's the one who convinces them anyway. |
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Howdy Jess, Long time no see. It was nice to visit your blog page and discuss after a very long time. Have a blessed day, Ragland |
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