"Perhaps the best way to resolve the issue of assurance is to turn it into a non-issue by making God's will preeminent in our life."

It takes many years before we make God's will pre-eminent in our life. Many are the wasted years when we followed our own will, our own desire, our own reasoning & imagination.

Good post. 

Mike, I also have struggled with this concept but recently have thought of it more in relational terms.  If my life is about being as close to God as possible, being the best friend of God's I can be----then its a nonissue.

Cheryl:  It's located in Ephesians 2:8-9. 

I find this topic fascinating for the responses I've heard over the years.  so many of the responses are mere theory, with no practical implications; for instance, the classic phrase "Once saved, always saved."  It sounds great and takes into account God's power but it doesn't call for our response, which all of Scripture does.  

There is obviously verses supporting both sides and because of this it only makes sense that both sides are true.  We are often sure about our Biblical beliefs because we have Scripture to back it up, and on this issue it is very easy to argue from either vantage point with a very adequate defense.  Our struggle lies in the fact that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than ours.  To understand how it works, He must reveal it.

It is my belief that we can't lose our salvation and God doesn't ever take it back; however, Scripture makes it clear that it is our choice, along with examples of those who or can walk away from the faith (Ps. 125, Alexander & Hymaneus, in one of the epistles talking specifically to Christians it mentions how our actions can lead to the same fate as Satan himself.  If our theology doesn't change our actions and promote living for God then we ought to throw that theology away.  It's better to believe the truth which may be harder to accept because of it's implications on our lives, but it's better than letting Satan use the same trick he used in the garden by twisting god's words to make Adam and Eve believe they were okay. 

The truth is where their is no obedience there is no faith, and faith is what justifies us.  You can't have faith without obedience.  I think of how I couldn't sleep on Christmas Eve as a child because I couldn't wait to see what Santa brought me.  I would listen to see if I could hear him, it was a lot of fun.  My belief in Santa motivated expectant actions, and faith in God will always bring about relational closeness with Him and others.  

I John 5:13 was quoted up a bit, and it sounds dogmatic, but to truly understand it you need to read chapter 4 and 5.  John says we know the salvation we have because of how we behave basically, and the way we behave if it pleases god comes from God's grace.  It all works together, you can't have one without the other.  Arguments for or against each side are true but only partially always to the exclusion of many passages.

Paul said of himself toward the latter part of his life, the he had the hope of salvation and it wasn't something that he had already attained.  Everywhere we see the word saved it seems our culture assumes it means eternal life, but the word saved simply means healed.  Salvation is aprocess that we classify into 3 different parts: justification, sanctification and glorification because of our theology, but the word simply means healed.  It seems to me that as we accept God's offer of grace and healing we are saved little by little, and right on into eternal life if that is our practice in this life. 

I'll be quiet on this note, my belief is that our man-made formulated doctrines have done irreparable damage to the narrow, graceful way of Christ, and it should all be thought about and viewed discerningly, but not used as I springboard for our decisions, not these man-made doctrines (eternal security or you can lose it).  The Bible can easily dismantle both arguments.

Hopefully hepful not offensive, but helpful.    

Amen Paul!! Literally a day doesn't go by that thoughts of the eternal don't cross my mind in some way or another....I hope we all have this hope somewhere near the surface of our consciousness!

Thank you Jay. There is much common ground between all believers on the topic of salvation, but somehow we often manage to isolate and emphasize the narrow regions of disagreement! lol - we sinners!

I had to read your John Murray quote ten times, and your resposne to it five times.  Deep words.

I think there are two kinds of "assurances of salvation" where before reading I only knew of one.  The one I'm familiar with (and spoke of when we talk in person) is God's perspective:  those that God predestined WILL never lose their salvation.  The one you are concerned with is man's perspective:  how do I really know I'm one of God's?

Now that I think more, I recall a lecture by R.C. Sproul that drew a 2x2 matrix on the chalkboard:  Across the top:  Saved and Unsaved; down the left side:  believe are saved and believe are not saved.  That produces four possibilities:

(1) You believe you are saved and you are actually saved.
(2) You believe you are not saved and are actually not saved.

The first two are pretty easy, cut and dry.

(3) You believe you are not saved but are actually saved.

This one is harder, but still somewhat easy to work with.

(4) You believe you are saved but are actually not saved.

This is what all Christians are worried about.  Jesus said there would be many that said "Lord, Lord" but he did not know them. 

I hope I gave you something useful to think about, Mike.  From God's perspective, our status does not change.  From our perspective, we cannot really see that status and know for sure.  Hebrews (and John Murray) tell us what the best evidence of that status is:  obedience. 

P.S.  Calvinists on "perseverance of the saints" deal with God's perspective, not man's. 

P.P.S.  Wow, a lot of comments!  I haven't read them yet.

I just read some of the comments.  It's very interesting.  Mike's blog title seems to question this doctrine:

* Those that God saves He will never un-save.

Clumsy wording, but that is the Calvinist position.  It's a matter of eschatology.  Many people here will disagree with that.  But here's the funny part:  Mike's actual blog didn't even address that!  Mike's blog is on man's perspective.  Many of the commenters, however, are focusing on the eschatology and not on the life-application that Mike wrote about!

I'd just like to say this:  in this blog, it doesn't matter if the statement above is true or false.  What matters is whether we are obeying God or not.  If you're not, do it.  If you still aren't, then you are probably not saved.  I can't imagine a Christian here that would disagree with this!

"What matters is whether we are obeying God or not."

Exactly, Eric! The blog was deliberately written to take the steam out of the arguments over "once saved always save" - to me that's a completely moot issue if you are obeying God. I teach my children obedience, not vague doctrines about earning/keeping salvation. If we are obeying, it's all good!

And yes, from your first of two posts, I fully agree w/this statement: "the best evidence of that status is:  obedience."

I love C.S. Lewis.    Mike you said, "Perhaps the best way to resolve the issue of assurance is to turn it into a non-issue by making God's will preeminent in our life. "

So, if Jesus was to come back today.... can you say with assurance... I know I'm gonna be included among the number?

 

I believe there will be no room in heaven for complacency, apathy and cockiness... we ought not take our Lord for granted.

Pastor Aminata

I missed this one during the week I was sick.  Glad someone bumped it so I could read it.  Great stuff Mike.  Our obedience most definitely does have a direct correlation to our faith and how we view our faith.