I've heard much commentary in the news this week about Barack Obama's speech, responding to the controversy ignited by his former pastor's publicized comments. I had not, however, listened to the speech in its entirety until just a few minutes ago, and his words deeply resonated with my own personal passion and conviction concerning racism.
I post it here, not as a political endorsement or any kind of political statement, but rather as an honest and intelligent commentary on racism that we as individuals and we as Americans will benefit to hear.
The final words of the 37:39 minute video turn to Obama's other political concerns and issues, but the first 30 minutes are an impassioned and intelligent address that I invite you to hear with me:
Kathy, I had not intended to listen either but did. I second that comment, "his words deeply resonated with my own personal passion and conviction concerning racism."
What I liked about the speech was that even though it may of hurt him with the black voters, that he looked at both sides of the coin. He addressed the situations that both cultures go through when it comes to race. I thought that was not only gutsy, but appropriate of him to do. No other speaker that I've ever heard has ever done that. It meant alot to me.
I have never voted Democrat...Slipped and wasted a vote on Perot once.... but if the Holy Spirt tells me Obama can deliver on this one. I might have to reconsider my firm Republican ways.
My heart hurts, when I hear of how my earthly daddy hates the fact he has a mixed grandson and refuses to even talk to the man my sister chose. My heart hurts when I go to my daughter's basket ball games in Moore County, NC in the year 2006 only to find the stands are this... black, white, and mixed... Why are we so ignorant still didn't MLK and Rosa... pay enough consequences?
Oh Lord Please BLESS THIS COUNTRY WITH THE 2008 vote.
I just watched this with my daughter... and I had Holy Spirit goosebumps... I guess my Spirit is telling me to get rid of what I was taught about GOD and politics and listen to the Candidates Spirit before I vote. BTW... where can I change my voter registration I just moved next to Rich almost a year ago. I can't space out this election when I hear Love of all races. Wish I heard a little more about Pro Life issues but as a second victim of "the Great Lies" of Pro Choice... I need to look for real change... I need to hear more about his views on the war... I am a soldiers wife you know.
Thanks, Mike! He definitely has my vote as best communicator, most likeable, and probably most intelligent. I still have some concerns with every candidate and will continue to watch and listen for the next several months!
Thanks, Jerry!
Loren, I agree. He showed an understanding of both sides of the racial issue, and discussed it with integrity and conviction.
Becky, we in the South are far behind on the racism issue, especially the older generations who grew up during segregation. And the sad part is that they often have no idea they are racist. As for politics, there are those who believe to be Christian is to be a particular party. I passionately disagree. Christianity is not about political parties. I am registered Independent so I can vote for whichever candidate I feel God leading me to vote for. I'm certainly not advocating that choice for you, but should you ever want to change affiliations from any party to another, I think you can call your county's Board of Elections for how to go about it. BTW, I'm with you on the war thing!
I certainly think he has fooled a lot of people. We all want a good society that many of the people can't see the forest through the trees. He had belonged, and still does to my knowledge to a hate church. His Pastor certainly teaches pure hate for the whites of this country. He threw his own grandmother "under the bus' as a "typical wighty.' So if you dig deep he is a pure lier in my book. He was on Fox one day and said he never heard his Pastor say these things. A couple days later he's admitting them. Most white people I know have nothing against blacks. I would never vote for a David Duke. I would also never vote for a Barack Obama. I don't truly think we have a candidate this election. No one can become President in this country and not be of evil intentions. Thin about it!!
Do you know that my daughter said that in her highschool last year... The teenagers saw a NOOSE hanging from the gym when they went in for their morning SPIRIT Assembly...
Who teaches this HATE of GODS CHILDREN... no matter what color they are even PURPLE wildcat lovers like me...
the teachers are the PARENTS of the kids.. that keep it alive and healthy in the south...
I cringe and pray every time I see a confederate flag...because of what it stood for, and the blood that was spilt and the HATE it still breeds....
May the South RISE AGAIN... but with the LOVE OF JESUS who died for all "gangsta's or wannabes"...With that LOVE may we teach our bible thumping Parents how to REALLY love their Children instead of ruining their lives with HATE...
Hey Golden... You are a Yankee... the south struggles with racism like no other....I didn't know that Church people sometimes meant RACISM till I moved here... I am not going to make any decisions about my vote in 2008 until November.
If He is the Evil one that the end times talk about....it will be us Believers who really walk with the Lord... we will all make the right decision that we can live with...
But Hey look at it this way.... if Obama is the ANTI CHRIST then to me and my pains I see in
Partial abortions, abortions Men (who are supposed to be the HEAD of the family) KILLING their wives and UNBORN babies Children who run away just to be teenage prostitutes. And yes that includes young BOYS GAY Pride Adoptions by the Homosexual .. Homos who might be a Christian.... Drug dealers who sell Meth as Pop rocks on playgrounds Adultorers Suicidal thoughts and attempts Sex abusers Wife/Child beaters and the list goes on and on and ON
GOD HATES sin But LOVES the sinner
That is why HE SAVED ME!
HALLELUJAH JESUS HAS RISEN
Bring it on Satan, you were getting your butt kicked almost 2008 years ago after he was Crucified on that Cross and He carried my SINS....
and now I am free...
Cause if Obama is the anti Christ...then bring it on. I am a Child of GOD and I CANT wait to be in Heaven...
Because through Grace and LOVE... GOD loved the sinner so much
and Jesus Carried ALL my sins.. and Satan was Defeated, and if He taught a half bread Black man to speak well.... then Bring it ON evil one...
US CHRISTIANS...we know the end of the story
don't tell me we are not living in END times right now
AMEN Kathy...Way to Stir up the POT for Easter! Lord CHANGE ME and my thoughts to always have my eyes fixed upon you! With every breath I take may you always let me Praise and worship you.
Love it is the Key to the Kingdom
we all need to ask God what is holding us back in our lives and ask Him to free us from it so we can
"Most white people I know have nothing against blacks. " Golden, I wish this were true. It may very well be true in Massachusetts. I will say though that the younger generations are getting it!
Dennis, I agree that "Being a good speaker does not make a person competent" for the presidency. It is a plus, but there are many more important issues. I, however, am personally offended by the statement you made prior to this one. I understand that politics can bring out the worst in us, but this statement crosses a line I'm going to tell myself you didn't mean. I will continue to "consider" all three candidates with an open heart and mind, until God gives me a clear answer.
As Golden pointed out, there are no perfect candidates, just as none of us is perfect, but I have seen nothing to convince me that any of the three viable candidates is inherently bad. More liberal than many Christians would prefer, yes. Inexperienced to deal with such serious international issues, yes. Apt to make political promises they can't uphold, definitely. So we pray. We pray with fervor. We seek the Lord's guidance, because He and only He knows the true hearts and souls of the three candidates. He alone knows how they would lead our country.
Becky, as many have noted, the media has been slow in the South, so that word is not completely out that the Civil War has ended. It saddens me too, and I am doing I know to do in my small corner of the world. That and prayer can make a difference.
Amen Kathy, I stand with you in agreement in your above statement. Peace and love to you....... Teaching is one thing, teaching in love is another, {just to be blunt} a division is not of God!~
Kathy, thanks for posting this. As I noted in my blog on the same subject, this was a good speech.
There are two things to consider in the comments posted here. First, was the rhetoric indeed good for America? I think, undoubtedly, yes! As such, this is a speech that has the potential to be used as a reference for many years to come. On that note, I applaud the man.
The second issue is one of presidential candidacy. On this second issue, I think Kathy made it very clear she wasn't making an endorsement. The three candidates that are remaining are all of very similar positioning. Only one has any experience per se (McCain) and doesn't have too many special interests that support him. The other two are junior in their leadership, tend to play their "specialty" cards every now and then (race or gender) and seem to have a lot of special interests. Obama is the only one who claims to be born again. McCain is the only one who says forthright that he is NOT born again. My point here is that we have a very hard decision to make this year. When it comes to a biblical worldview, none of the candidates even come close. This requires us to look at the issues that are really important that the president has the ability to do anything about, and try to make a decision. Since the media doesn't help in this process, it is extremely difficult.
In summary, I ask that everyone look at this from these two perspectives. This was indeed a great speech and one that is worth listening to without a political agenda. Let it soak in and let it resonate with your soul. Whether this man is qualified to be president, while a very important question, is an entirely different subject.
(As an aside, Dennis, it is a matter of respect to your readers and those who originally made the comments to let everybody know where you borrow words from. As I was reading your one comments, I stumbled across a reference to "Cory" and realized these were not your comments, but some you copied and pasted from somewhere else. When I see things like this (uncredited dialog) on my post, I delete the comments because they could be a copyright infringement and I don't want to take the chance.)
I really think some people want a change for the better in this world that they can't reason correctly. It's a shame that one of these people may be our next President. We are still living in Babylon. (confusion)
The frustration is understandable...the language and names are not. How does that convince someone to your side of a discussion? I personally am not voting for either candidate and ppl have their right to say yes or no to a candidate...I have to let the Holy Spirit be the Holy Spirit and after I have been lovingly voiced, I must let God be God......
Trying to control something is disastrous and abusive.
Dennis, I just read the entire speech again. Please give me an example of a lie within the speech so I can address specifics.
I know people, including Cory (I listened to the link), have shown how his examples from his books don't quite line up. Let's get past those since editors quite often make the stories sound better for the book. Let's assume the man when he is giving his speech is telling those stories as they happened. Set aside those anecdotal stories and provide an example.
BTW, my entire comment wasn't directed at you. Only the final parenthetical. The comment was to be part of the dialog. The issue of being born again? While we can't judge one another's salvation, that is certainly an area we want to know about one another. I, personally, seek leadership that has a biblical worldview. So, my first desire is to know if they have Jesus within them to change them and guide them. The only candidate who will say that he indeed does have that light to shine on his path is Obama. Now, the next step is to see how he responds to that light. If we assume that he has been being refined in the fire daily (as all Christians are), then we should see some sort of growth happening - perhaps a greater sensitivity to those things around him that do not glorify God. While not the only thing to consider for a leader of our great county, I wanted to state why to me it is the basis of any leadership decision I make. We know that McCain and Clinton have no desire to be born again. Bear in mind that neither did Lincoln before he was elected. My point here is that it isn't a prerequisite of a good president. It is only an indicator of a willingness to be transformed into God's image. God can and does use all of us.
You noted that "the preacher gets a break". I don't read that. As a matter of fact, Obama comes right out and says his preacher was wrong, divisive, and not representative of the way he (Obama) thinks Americans want to be. I think that is pretty bold. He doesn't defend him. He doesn't stand up and say "he has a right to say these things". No, he says those things were wrong. I don't see him skirting the issue at all..."As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all."
Cheryl, thank you. May we never lose sight of the unity we have as brothers and sisters in Christ!
Dennis, you are passionate! I deleted your very long post, which was apparently the transcript of the "blog talk radio/conservative voice" link you posted, so the readers can go there to hear it. Your opinions are welcome in this forum.
Gene, I'm always happy to see you come in! Thank you for joining us!
Golden, I would agree with you that the masses are losing their ability to think critically. A problem we can blame largely on the education system, though it would be hard to find where "the buck stops." But that's for another blog! :)
Voice, you are a Voice of Reason. As usual, you have communicated clearly and brought up some very good points. Thank you for entering the dialogue here!
As we debate issues, may be share with each other respectfully and with language that will not offend God, each other, or those who are observing our witness.
Thanks Kathy, is that the HOLY SPIRIT in you stirring up the pot..
oh how you and the LORD, bless my soul, bless the lord and BLESS you sista chickadee
My heart has been broken since I have moved to NC, oh how I wish I could just click my BLOOD RED COVERED dancing shoes, and go back to Kansas.
Yes toto (Lara Ledger) I do not think I am in Kansas any more says becky the redneck soldier loving dorthy girl.......
LOVE it is the reason for the season... the Reason for CHRISTmas, and the reason for the GOLDEN ticket you find in that EASTER basket Tomorrow morning at Dawn. Cause Jesus died for all, not just a select few.
The South will rise again.... on the resurection day. Kathy I wish you lived close to Rich, Mullet, Evangelist, Pastor Tim, and most of all Pastor Rodney and myself. MY church in Apex... Calvary Chapel looks and sounds so much like heaven I wish I could be there every minute like I can here on MYCHURCH.
Love to all people who speak.....let it SMELL, LOOK, SPEAK of the Lord on High!
Love it is the golden key to ...... Heaven... Thanks Jesus.
I have two best friends, one in New York state and one in North Carolina. My best friend in North Carolina is very dark. I'm lighter than a cracker with a suntan. We loved to go fishing together and I could not believe the looks we got at times. My friend (an electrician) told me that he and a white colleague were on the job at a rich white person's home one day, when he overheard the owner tell his partner to "hurry up and get that n__ out of here." I was shocked! You are right. Stupid, ignorant racism is all around us and it stinks.
This presidential race is scary. I see no one qualified for which to vote. As I read in my Bible, as a Christian, it is my duty to "quicken" the coming of Christ. (And Yes, I do believe we are in the end times.) But I'm also afraid for that quickening. How many people will we not reach? How many will be lost? The Bible talks of 1/3 of the people will be saved. That is a low amount.
Please read the scriptures and pray digently. God will guide your hearts and minds for what His Will desires. In the meantime, tell EVERYBODY God's Good News!
I am new to MyChurch and until now I was so excited about joining this "Christian" website. After reading the blogs posted I would say that I am very disappointed. As Christians we are supposed to let the LIGHT shine from within us even when it comes to an issue as politics. The Light of Jesus Christ should be shining through. I'm thankful that Kathy brought this issue to the forefront on this website. I knew the issue of race would eventually be discussed openly in this presidential election and I pray that this isn't the end of the discussion.
For so many people racism is so taboo that it isn't acknowledged or even openly discussed. I am a Texan, born and raised, a Southern Belle to the Core. I didn't realize how deep racial tension was until I left for college and I became "aware" of my "Blackness." When I returned to Texas I began to look at people differently and even question their motives. I knew this was a result of the "pro-blackness" that was being filtered thorugh my class lessons. It's important to understand that racism isn't one directional. We all can be influenced by it if we buy into the prejudices, stereotypes, and racial propaganda. But as Christians we have to rise up and be transformed by the RENWING OF OUR MINDS.
I've heard Jeremiah Wright preach while I was in college. And me being a sinner saved by His grace I know that I cannot judge that man no more than I can judge my own actions. The Bible speaks about judging others, so as we engage in this political debate let us all seek to sharpen one another in our Faith and not conform to the norms of the world.
Kathy, your a sweet lady. But, if you think mention of this guys name and speech was not going to start some fire. I think you know now. I know there is a good deal of hate for blacks in the south. In fact there is hate for every race in the world. I am french and have sean hate for the french, Irish, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Polish, get the picture? In short, it's pure ignorance and there are many ignorant in this world. But, I'm not going to vote for a man who hates whites to even it up. I don't like his communist views. Because somewhere behind it is hate for Christians also. I don't care how much of a Christians he claims to be. I fought the Communist in Vietnam and held small children in my arms that were from Catholic orphanages dieing. Some just wouldn't give in to Communist thinking. I have spilt my blood, sweat and many a tear for my country and the right for you and all to believe what they wish. But, I did not fight to see evil take over the country I love. I'm sorry if some can't understand this. But, none know the taste of freedom like those who have fought for it. Ask any soldier, Marine, Airman, etc of today's military what they think of hate speeches and those who love the haters. I don't mean to disrespect your way of thinking. But PLEASE listen to reason. there are many of us out here who have given way too much to listen to this kind of tripe. God bless!!
Dennis, as I said before, your views are welcome here. However much of what you have posted is copied and pasted from other websites, not your own expressions. We all have millions of websites we can go to, but blogs are best used for personal interaction. I hope you will post for the readers just the links to these sites, so they can go to them if they so choose. I will give you time to do this, but then I will delete your copied posts, as they are in the way of the real dialogue here. Please share all you want in your own words. Thanks, Dennis. Respectfully requested.
Ooops forgot their platform... do blogs run out of space Kathy? I am still trying to discern who to vote for.... Pray for me... I will pray all of October... there are no weeds in October.... pull and pray... pull a weed and pray... oh well just have to lift bulbs for the winter
I love you too and I LOVE MY SOLDIER WHO FOUGHT FOR THE DEMS AND OTHERS WHO HATE WAR..... DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT LOVING THIS COUNTRY AND GOD BLESS AMERICA FOR THE FREEDOM FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE FREEDOM AND SPEAK THEIR VOICE...
and if you question my love for Jesus on this day PLEASE message me...
KATHY is just asking EVERYONE to search their heart and pray.... that's all
Grant, unfortunately, having lived in the South all my life, I have witnessed many such stories. Thank you for sharing your own personal one! It brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat, and I pray I will never be able to hear such a story without feeling pain.
MT, prayer is indeed our most important responsibility for this election. If God's people will call unto Him for help, He will guide the results of this election. It is not a prayer that any particular candidate will become our next president, but that God will choose who that will be. We can see so very little. He knows all. Thank you for commenting!
Jacqueline, let me first say Welcome to MyChurch! Then secondly, I am so sorry that the discussion on this blog is one of the first you have seen. You will find the members of MyChurch to be 99% loving and caring, but there are many who have deep cuts in life and we will see them here manifested in various ways. I strongly agree with you that it is time we as a nation reach a new level of racial communication. It is time to move beyond a shared politeness to sincerely hearing and embracing each other as brothers and sisters. Please don't judge MyChurch by the comments on this blog. I pray and believe God will use even the kind of discourse you have seen here, to bring us all to a more real understanding and to bring us to work for change. Thank you for sharing your very important story here!!
What Obama said of his white grandmother, we could say of our parents. Even though we grew up in the midst of racism and separate facilities, my husband and I both knew it was wrong and broke with our parents mindset and political party. We vote from a biblical viewpoint: pro-life issues and constitutional courts are important to us. Since we have known many self-proclaimed Christians who did not have those views, we prayerfully vote on the issues rather than whether or not someone says they are Christian. (Obviously, it would be a plus to have a candidate who obviously seeks to know and do God's will.)
With that in mind I have this question for Voice: where/when did Obama say he was born-again; and where/when did McCain say he wasn't? My husband follows political speeches closely and he can't remember either of them specifically addressing the "born-again" issue.
Kathy, I second your above post about the members of MyChurch. I have been in Ministry for 23 years and Have a vast array of experience ranging from A to Z! I also watched the members on this site before I began posting to see if it compiled with God's word....and my evaluation resonated a profound Yes, MyChurch does comply with the word of God and the majority of members do as well. I have been in Public Speaking as part of my profession for 15 years and the above dialogue by a few does not represent the majority and grossly abuses the system and love fostered in this MyChurch family. I Personally would like to apologize to you for the discussion, NEVER should a dialogue blaze out of control...I am impressed with your responses and loving professionalism as you serve your Savior.
Pastor Tim, amen, and thank you! The blog you linked to is a great one, and I join you in recommending it, with one personal note: Sometimes when I read a blog it is evident that the intended audience is someone else, and I realize that if it becomes bombarded with comments from outside that audience that may be a deterrent to its intended readership. For example, for several years there was a very popular Christian radio program for youth. (The host's name escapes me at the moment - someone help me!) Teenagers from across the country could call in and ask questions, and the host would speak with them in their language. The rule of the show was that no calls would be accepted from adults. Adults could listen, but they could not call in, because that would detract from the effectiveness and attention to the target audience. On this particular blog, I added a star but no comment. Pastor Tim, you are a wise man of God!
LOL Golden! If you have read many of my blogs you know I am not afraid of controversy! I believe if we can remain respectful of each others' differing opinions, there is much to be gained from discussing the tough issues. I will admit to you though that I didn't expect this simple post to ignite such a fire! I guess politics in an election year will always leave open that possibility! You are so right that prejudice exists in many forms all over the world, against all different races and people groups. A sad commentary on humanity. I appreciate your comments and your service to our country, and I can respect you as brother in Christ without agreeing with you on every issue. Someone very wise once said, "In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; and in all things love."
Becky, yes, I will be praying with you for that discernment, and trusting that God will choose our next leader. Is this a prayer we can all pray together? :)
"Kathy U are perpetrating a LIAR. I find that beyond apprehension. I Love my Country. I Love Jesus. This man hates his country and the truth needs to be told.You are what is part of the problem in this copuntry and in Christiandom ifv you are indeed a beliver. I proved my point here and I want nothing to do with people like you. Bye. You are a disgrace" Dennis, may I never stop growing in wisdom and understanding, and may I always seek only God's perfect will above my own. Peace, my brother.
Jay, you are a wise woman!! Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts here!
Cheryl, thanks for chiming in about MyChurch! It's a wonderful site, but made up of 100,000+ imperfect humans!
Walk away for a day and I see a lot of new postings.
Kathy, back to your original point of the speech...I have listened to many who have tried to pick it apart...they all seem to go after elements that tie back to his books which I haven't read. I still believe it is a powerful speech.
Regarding his qualificiations for president...one of the biggest holes in his resume is the lack of experience. There are a lot of other elements to consider - voting record is 100% liberal, for example, but the biggest, thing, IMHO, is that he has very limited experience. Same can be said for Clinton.
Jay, I will send the links (regarding the candidates' statements on salvation) to you in a PM, but here they are for everyone...
The Lord will bring into power whom He has already chosen for the up coming times of troubles, why do you worry and fear about what has not even happened yet, instead, pray
Rom 13:1-7 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
1Ti 2:1-3 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Great post, Voice! As I stated above, I still have concerns about all three candidates and continue to watch and listen. I agree with you that inexperience is a big concern with Obama, as well as the Iraq War, and the fact that he has been in the public eye so little for us to get to know a lot about him. Thus he is somewhat of a wildcard - could be the change we need, could be a national (international) disaster. (To some degree this could be said about all the candidates, as we cannot see into the future, although the others have been in the public eye longer.) I have equally important concerns about Clinton and McCain, and I definitely consider Obama a very viable candidate. I am impressed with his intelligence, communication skills, general likeability, and apparent sincerity. As you have stated, this is an election for which the wise voters will have to sort through the issues and identify which issues are most important to them. This is a thinking election, except for those who will always vote for their own party no matter what, a line I am personally happy to see blurring a bit in this one! Thanks for adding the 3 testimony links here!
Thank you, Gary for your reminder. Fervent prayer should be our main concentration for the upcoming election. Not prayer that any particular candidate will win the election, but prayer that God Himself will choose the best person to lead our country. Thank you for commenting!
LOL Becky! One never knows the many uses of a blog post! I teach Spanish.
Dennis, I have deleted your 5 longests posts, all of which were copied from other websites, but I left your other 11. You are still welcome to return and post links should you so choose. Thanks.
I figured this blog post would stir up some feelings with some people. I haven't had a chance to read all the comments just skimmed...
In general, I'm disappointed with the Conservative reaction to Obama. I am in no means supporting the man, but I think some people need to be more objective in their review of certain people and ideas. Always comparing with Scripture to make sure that we are in line with what God would have us say and do.
What I would challenge people to do is to focus on Obama's words and not those of his former pastor. We need to separate the despicable nature of the Black Liberation Theology from the points that Obama is trying to make regarding the nature of race relations in this country. What I found inspiring about the speech is that Obama addressed the concerns and pain that the white culture has gone through. I truly believe that this may have opened up a door to further discourse. But we'll have to see. The early results aren't that encouraging.
Interesting. Just read something Dennis had posted earlier about balloon mortgages. Having been in the industry for 12 years I have a viewpoint on this. I don't have a problem with the government stepping in to help people get out of these types of mortgages. In many circumstances, unscrupulous lenders led people to this type of product without informing them of the potential consequences later down the line. Yes, people should have done their homework. But the unfortunate fact is that many do (and did) not.
Thanks, Loren. I agree. Objectivity is a trait we as a population seem to be losing. Goes back to not being able to analyze information or think critically. We are raising a generation that is very opinionated, believes whatever anyone believes is the truth for them, and has no clue how to synthesize information. There are exceptions, of course, but I've been teaching since 1984, and I'm seeing a steady loss of higher thinking skills as the years progress. The American education system - another blog . . . :)
Kathy, I just want to say I totally agree with Loren's second paragraph...seeking out the truth by comparing what we hear to the scriptures. This is so difficult to do in a sound-bite society...it ends up being much like taking your favorite verse and hanging your entire theology on it. That is ok some of the times, but not ok most of the time...overall it isn't a good practice. As you mentioned in an earlier comment, we need to pray that God will have the person He wants lead us...I would offer a slight modification to your thought for your consideration...let's pray that God prepares our hearts for the next leader He will provide. I agree with you that the new leader will be "nontraditional" in the sense that they won't follow traditional party lines...I think that will be good for the country since the parties are so powerful (they can dictate which states are allowed to vote for a candidate - Jefferson just turned over in his grave!).
For anyone who chooses only to identify with the media or political rhetoric, you are depriving yourself of your own opinion.
More than anything else, I think that we need to remember that passion is not a mark of right or wrong. Many passionate speakers (and writers and - dare I say bloggers) have existed on both sides of a position. Our greatest leaders for good and the most fearsome evil dictatorships have passionate people at the top.
If we are talking about a presidential candidate, what is important is what the person is that person's ability to lead us in a positive direction. Now, what you and I (and the plethora of other commenters) think are "positive" directions may differ, but that's what makes this country so wonderful. The opportunities to express that. And the chance to change our minds. I am not the same person I was when I was 18 or 35. I have grown and my views on many things have changed over the years as I've gotten the chance to learn more about those ideas.
I'm not supporting one person or the other in this comment. What I AM saying is that Obama chose to distance himself from a perspective that was both volatile and corrosive but he chose to not separate himself from the man who presided at his wedding and baptised his children. I'd say that is differentiating between sin and sinner.
My comment has nothing to do with other candidates or whether or not Obama is the right person for the presidency. I think he acted appropriately in clearly stating that what the Rev Jeremiah Wright said in that video was wrong. He acted responsibly.
Isn't that what we should be asking one another to do?
Kathy... oh so that is the language you speak in sometimes... i thought i was hearing tongues or something..... oh Kathy keep on blogging... I can't wait to hear the blog about the education system PLEASE.
Yes objectivity is lost and all we can do is pray for this country. THAT is our rights as people who live in this great country.
yep daddy gene told you this was going to be a long blog.
In a way, we are the PROBLEM, in that we were the last bastion of Christian beliefs, but have allowed the world values to have dominion over our morals and beliefs. It is as prophesied by John, it is just getting closer to the return of the Lord. As the seconds count down, it will only get worse.
Gary, I'd modify what you said only slightly. We're not the problem as long as we speak our minds and vote our conscience. If we waste THAT, then we are the problem.
Wyatt.. I am a retired army wife and I can truly respect what you are saying... it is a touch decision we have to face... I am not saying necessarily what I vote for, I am saying what is in my heart, and in the speech he spoke of racism on both sides... and the south is STILL in the civil war. oh the stories my kids tell me, scare me.
If I finally break my vote and vote dem and both of them end up destroying this country or being the anti christ then bring it on. I am JUST TRULY READY TO GO HOME TO MY LORD....
doesn't the bible talk about great confusion and deciet. We are just trying to get people to search their hearts. Particularly the guy I wanted to vote for is no longer there Huckabee... oh well maybe 2012.
search and search and search my heart..who am i ....what can i live with...oh the confusion. is it getting hot in here?
I am waiting also to see who McCain will choose to be his VP. He is too liberal for me. I definitly am not comfortable with what Barak or Clinton brings to the table.
As to the anti-christ being Barak, if not mistaken, Jews will have to accept who-ever the anti-christ is, as being their savior. And I don't see Barak fitting that bill.
Here is something to chew on also, I just got this notice in:
From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, President, Grassfire.org Alliance
What you and I do NOW is more important
for border security than the presidential elections.
See below. --Steve
3/25/2008
Dear Gary,
Our research team just got off the phone with one of our key contacts in Rep. Duncan Hunter's office and learned more disturbing news about the border fence.
According to our contact, the fence-gutting provision that was put into the omnibus spending bill just before Christmas also causes the Department of Homeland Security's authority on constructing new border fencing to expire at the end of this year.
In essence, the sun sets on the border fence on December 31 of this year! In fact, our contact tells us the bill language could be interpreted as a prohibition against any fence construction after December 31 of this year.
Here's the exact provision from H.R. 2764:
"In carrying out this section, the Secretary of Homeland
Security shall --
"(i) identify the 370 miles, or other mileage determined by
the Secretary, whose authority to determine other mileage
shall expire on December 31, 2008, along the southwest
border where fencing would be most practical and
effective..."
Think about what this means...
The next President -- whether it be Obama or Clinton or
McCain -- will have no clear legal authority to build any
of the border fence at all...
We will have a pro-amnesty president who not only
doesn't want to build the double-layer fence, he or
she legally does not have to!
As a result, this fall’s elections could prove less important for border security than what you and I do right now to restore the Secure Fence Act.
+ + Tell Congress to Restore The Secure Fence Act!
Thanks, Voice. You said "I agree with you that the new leader will be "nontraditional" in the sense that they won't follow traditional party lines...I think that will be good for the country since the parties are so powerful . . ." In my comment I was talking about the voters blurring the party lines in the election, as many have changed to Independent, and many others are thinking of crossing party lines when they vote. I would agree, however, that should McCain win the presidency, the party line will be blurred from the presidency as well. Hillary, I don't see it! (Obama, I can only guess at this point.) I completely agree that such a blurring would be good for the country, as our party system has become far to polarized and divisive.
Excellent comments, Gene, and yes, it seems there was more to come out of this blog than I expected! You said, "For anyone who chooses only to identify with the media or political rhetoric, you are depriving yourself of your own opinion." Amen, Amen! And "More than anything else, I think that we need to remember that passion is not a mark of right or wrong." Excellent point, and I totally agree! A person can be just as passionate about a wrong opinion as he/she can about a right one (and I'm sure I've fit into both categories at times)! I also appreciated your comments about being open to changing our minds as we learn and mature. I too hold very different opinions from those I held at 18 and 35!
Becky, you can get a preview from my Let's Not Put Prayer Back in Our Schools blog (and all the comments there). Then you may decide you don't want me to write another one! :)
I love you Kathy as I love Wyatt and Pastor Tim...there is just too much I hold near to my heart. and as a book said to me once... Is you have way too sensitive of a heart Becky/Kathy....
The Lord told me to listen to him and I have too many passion on this post. I will have to go read Kathy's post on her link.
You teach me so much oh great teacher who teaches spanish.
"I will NOT vote for either of the Democratic candidates . . ." Wyatt, I respect your consistency. You are a strong Republican voice, and I would be shocked if you took any other position. You and I may not agree politically, but you can be counted on to stand firmly for what you believe, and I respect that!
Gary, I agree that the moral compass of our nation is broken. I would add that it is not even functioning well within the Christian community, as we fight and name-call over differing opinions and lose sight of which issues are essential to the faith and to the well-being of our society. We, Christians and non-Christians alike, have become an arrogant (and largely ignorant) people. I did not interpret the border provision the same way your friend Steve did. From what he wrote in his letter to you, I don't see any mention in the provision of the president at all. What am I missing? I did see Hillary's Bosnia gaffe. I would like to hear her address this. Perhaps a legitimate mistake. Has she made any attempt to correct what she said? Although sadly I don't consider her a believable person, I do consider her too intelligent to have blatantly lied about something so public. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt on this one, until she's had a chance to respond.
Pastor Tim, good question, and one that concerns me as well.
ps. I feel the same way you do at this point in time about my vote... Obama... is stiring up America and telling them to reach in their hearts and love all races... McCain will keep us safe... Hillary...well I love women to much to talk about her here. Not that I am gay... I just seek for that biblical mentor to look to and Kathy you are one of them.
Good point Gary... the only thing I worry about is our borders and how easy it is for a terrorist. Let me tell you where my hubby used to work in the ARMY the public has not a clue what they are really doing in Iraq or Afganistan.
Kathy, this is a great video.. I'm so glad you posted it. You always bring to light the heart of the matter.
Remember, this is your post and your discussion that you are moderating. I encourage you to report any commenters that continue to slander and show disrespect for your (and anyone else's) viewpoints. And of course, the 'delete' button is there for a reason. :)
Becky, thank you for all your encouragement! I write as I am inspired to write (and as time allows), so I don't know when there'll be another education blog, but I suspect there will be one sometime!
Gene and Gary, yes, I heard Hillary's response to the Bosnia issue just minutes after I posted my last comment. Not very impressive . . . "I made a mistake" doesn't really explain very much . . . except that apparently there is nothing to explain.
Thanks, Cheryl! Blog response is unpredictable, isn't it! (That's part of the fun!)
NC is now taking its turn on the campaign trails. With the rare phenomenon that our democratic primary will actually count this time, we are getting regular visits from Obama and Clinton, and tomorrow Bill will be in Salisbury. Yesterday George Clooney and Renee Zelweger were here promoting their new movie (Leatherheads) which was partially filmed here. He has a tough act to follow! :) I have not yet been enticed into the frenzied crowds!
Kathy, you must have "misunderstood the candidate's(Hilary's) response." She didn't admit to making a mistake, she "mis-spoke" her remembrance of the event.
Doesn't that sound so much better than saying she lied?
Wow! Speechless! This speech was well written and carried out. However, this does not change my mind to the point of wanting to vote for Obama. He made a very clear case for all sides. In a sense he preached a message America needed to hear. But... I have to disagree with so many other things he has said and claims to believe. I am not pro-choice. I am pro-life. Babies aren't a preference but a gift from God. Chosing to take their life b/c they're an in convience, not wanted no matter how they were conceived, is murder.
I'm seriously having a hard time this year. I've been told I just need to choose the lesser of evils. But here's the thing... "it's never right to do wrong in order to do right." With every choice there's a consequence. As a Christian, we are to live according to the Word of God. We are to walk and live according to God's Word. How can I vote for things God clearly rebukes and calls sin just because that candidate isn't "as bad" or "as corrupt" as the others. I've always been told a "NO VOTE" is a vote for the one who wins. This is a real issue for me this year. Help me pray saints. I know we'll never all agree on everything, or so I've been told, but as Christians saying we're striving to be more like Christ, how can we vote for someone who's views are just out right wrong?
I'm praying for you guys. Thanks for doing the same for me. :)
i think that he needs to step aside and let hillary go for the presidenticy. he finally put the american flags behide him to try to show that he cares about the american people. i've noticed that before this with the his minister that no american flag was with him at meeting where he was speeching at. then the comments by rev. wright, then suddenly he puts the flag behind him. how can we vote for someone that don't salute the flag. he turns his back on the flag. but how can we trust him after what he said just last week. but i have faith that GOD will put the person that is best to be the PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.
Thank you, KdtW, for your comments! I am praying with you!
Rayray, thank you for commenting! I join you in faith that God will put the best person in as president, if we are praying for that. I found your first comment interesting, that you think Obama should step down and give the nomination to Hillary. I'm sure any Hillary supporter would say the same, just as any Obama supporter would say that she needs to step down, but the reality is that he is in the lead at the moment, so why would he consider conceding the race?
Della, it is always such a pleasure to hear from you! You are so objective and kind!
I think most of us would agree there is no perfect candidate. Never has been. Never will. Why? Because candidates are all human! I don't see this as a bleak election, but I do see it as an a very important one, due to the current world unrest and our place in it. As I have said in earlier blogs, I hope the Christian community will be able to look beyond their pet issues of abortion, homosexuality, etc. and choose the man/woman who will best be able to address the international issues of the day and protect us as a nation.
In our lifetimes we have been sheltered by a strong national defense and a security that God has chosen us to always be a free country. We are deceiving ourselves on this, and we need a leader that can handle such big issues to preserve the freedoms we so take for granted. From a human point of view, we can see positive and negative qualities in every candidate if we are lokking with our minds open. I am praying. When I say I haven't yet chosen my candidate, I am being perfectly honest. I am watching, listening, and praying for both personal discernment, and for God Himself to choose our next leader.
There is no escaping all the ignorance. Here's some of what I heard a few minutes ago as I got my hair cut:
"What do you think about the president elections?"
"You know, that foreign one, what's his name . . .?"
"Obama?"
"Yeah, Obama. Well, people think he's a black man, but he's not even black, and he's not American. He's Indonesian or something, and he's Buddhist or something. They have a picture of him in a turban."
May none of us be so ignorant as to believe everything we hear, from the media, from our co-workers, from our spouse, from our pastor . . . May we engage our brains and our knees more than our mouths! I was surprised they didn't throw his middle name into that conversation!
lol Gene! That's the place to catch up on all the news!
Hey, for all you Huckabee fans, I ran across this video of his reaction to Rev. Wright and to Obama's speech. I like what he had to say. Got 8 minutes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFLOu8fjxU
<May we engage our brains and our knees more than our mouths!>
Kathy, this is ever so true. Knowledge is ever so important. We need to read and learn, not just to the main radio stations, tv channels, and newspapers. We need to look at all the media, and compare it to what God's Word says, and to God's law that is written upon our hearts.
5:21 prove all things; hold fast that which is good;
As was said on an earlier post, let God prepare our hearts to what comes to us. We may not like what's happening, but it's predicted in the Bible. God has a plan, and His plan may not be understandable to us. God uses all people. Remember, if is wasn't for Judas' betrayal, our Saviour may not have fulfilled God's plan.
We need to arm ourselves with The Armor of God and "whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel." Ephesians 6:19
MT, thank you for your comments. I too am confident that if God's people are praying in one accord for this election, God will orchestrate what is best.
The Lord wants us to pray, but He will do as He pleases.
Too many times, Christians get discouraged in their walk, because He did not answer their prayers as they expected. It is not a contest, who can pray harder for the Lord's will to be done. If I pray harder than you, will the Lord let the Republicans win? NO! He will do as He as planned.
We ( I ) need to pray that I can focus on what His will is, so that I can be in accord to what His plans are. Other wise, I will be running into a VERY hard wall.
See what happens when I walk away, I get an hours worth of reading to do. You said it all for me here:
When I say I haven't yet chosen my candidate, I am being perfectly honest. I am watching, listening, and praying for both personal discernment, and for God Himself to choose our next leader.
and then you go on to say
May we engage our brains and our knees more than our mouths!
Whoa...did I need to hear this today! Amen MT4God... it was predetermined. Out of our control, we just need to pray for those who don't know Jesus to hurry up and do so. God has always chose our elected leaders and he always will.
Thanks, Gary and Becky. Without getting into the Calvinism/Arminianism debate, I agree with you that our prayer should be for God's will, not for any particular party or candidate. Our disappointments come when we try to tell God what or who is best. May this be our prayer: "Not my will (my party, my candidate), Lord, but Thy will be done."
There is so much propaganda about all the candidates, being passed around under the guise of fact, that it is not easy to know what to believe. I just found a fantastic and unbiased site for examining all the candidates on all the issues, with direct quotes given if requested. Highly recommended:
Here ye, Here ye, just so you all know, I'm changing my profile name to Dennis_oldHowe so there won;t be confusion with some of my younger, passionate MyCurchers! You can say what you want, he does give a good speach. I probably won't vote for him, but he's gotten my kids involved and passionate about this election, that in it'f self is a reason to at least respect the man.
Dennis, I also have noticed that Obama stirs a lot of political interest within the younger generations where there was little before. As for the name change, you don't qualify for old, and I have never confused you with any other Dennis here, but I understand the change! I would suggest dropping the "old" in favor of Dennis the wise or Dennis the great! :)
Bernie, it seem to me the flag issue is one that has been blown out of proportion via email/internet. There have been multiple stories of not wearing a flag pin, not saluting the flag, not pledging allegiance, possibly all feeding the "He's really a Muslim" mentality. Take a look at his own response on YouTube (just a few seconds long), and the Snopes report, which seems to explain this all started from one photograph, which pertained, not to the Pledge of Allegiance, but to merely standing at attention for the National Anthem (without his hand over his heart). Sometimes I do the same. Not as any statement at all. Either way I am patriotic and at attention. Please take a look at these two responses, and tell me what you think. Are there other sources I've missed and need to look at more carefully? Thank you for adding this issue to our discussion. It's an important one!
Thanks, Pastor Tim. I'm not familiar with the author of this article, but the article is definitely written from a strong bias, as you pointed out. I found the video interesting (and it's only a few minutes long). I am definitely no fan of Rev. Wright, but I must say in this video it was the Fox News "interviewer" who was the villain. A professional interviewer wants to hear what the guest has to say, and allows him to speak. This interviewer had a very obvious agenda and only wanted to hear himself speak, using Rev. Wright as a prop and attempting to humiliate him. Of course this will provoke anger from the one who has been invited to supposedly share his views. (Just watching his unprofessionalism provoked my own anger!) I think any unbiased description of Black Liberation Theology will probably have to have been written prior to Obama's speech, at least for a while. I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on this issue.
I know you are very busy, Pastor Tim, but you might be just the one to write a good blog explaining Black Liberation Theology, with your past reading and experience . . . :)
You know, I am late to this discussion, but I think there's a bigger issue at stake here - and something that is NEVER going to be solved with all this discussion.
In the time since this blog was posted and I am writing this, 14 days have gone by. It is estimated that 150 THOUSAND people die each day. Most of those people are going to hell.
That's over 2 million souls leaving the world in the time we went back and forth on who is going to support the war on terror, who wants abortion and who doesn't.
Is terrorism terrible? Yes. Is racism? Abortion? Yes, all these things are terrible and against God and should not be stood for. But how much worse is letting someone die without sharing the Gospel with them?
In the time since this blog was posted within the warm, welcoming confines of mychurch - where we're all (for the most part) saved believers - how many UNSAVED people did each of you talk to? How many heard the Gospel from you?
People, we are not of this world. Politics are going to continue on, filled with deceitful and wicked people, and also those that are not. While we do need to 'vote our conscience', debates and discussions about things of this world aren't going to SAVE anyone.
If it is God's will that one of these candidates wins the election and either 'helps' or 'hurts' our country, it will happen. That's God's will. I'm not saying this in a predeterministic manner, but sometimes God uses BAD people to achieve His greater goal.
Don't believe me? Read the Old Testament sometimes - or the geneology of Jesus.
As far as politics and the Chistian response: Regardless of who they are, what changes they will make in the short-term, what negatives or positives occur...history is leading toward God's final plan for this world and the coming of the New Heaven and New Earth.
I love mychurch for the fellowship and new insights on the Gospel, but if we're truly dedicated to the Great Commission, we need to step outside of this place from time to time and reach the lost for the Lord.
Thank you, Growing in Faith, for putting our discussion in perspective.
Becky said it also: "we just need to pray for those who don't know Jesus to hurry up and do so."
But I like you "pro-active" suggestion... We need to get off the computer (or at least make our way to forums and social groups that aren't all Christian) and talk to people about God's glory. I've had this deepening desire to reach more people for Christ. And I really associate myself with the Group 1 Crew song "Forgive Me" when they sing..."I only fear that I don’t have enough time left To tell the world that there’s no time left."
So everyone, what are you (and me too) doing to further the Kingdom of God?
Great to see such good discussion regarding this issue. I tend to agree with Dennis' opinions on Obama. Kathy - I was absolutely stunned when you said, "I hope the Christian community will be able to look beyond their pet issues of abortion, homosexuality, etc. and choose the man/woman who will best be able to address the international issues of the day and protect us as a nation." These "pet" issues are the foundations of our faith! Obama may claim to be a Christian, but his actions and words, from the overflow of his heart, reflect otherwise. Am I judging? No. I have examined my own heart before holding him accountable for his comments. He stated in an interview (forgive that I don't know the exact one) that even though his mother didn't know Jesus, she was in heaven because she was a good, moral woman. That is the world speaking, not the WORD. He also stated in a speech that he would teach his daughters the moral thing to do regarding premarital sex, but if they made a mistake he didn't want them to be "punished with a baby." He cherry-picks scripture to support his views and dismisses other parts of the Word. Who cares what his stand is on international issues of the day if his stand isn't on God's Word? The same goes for the other candidates as well. May God help us discern His will for our country.
Those sins would have resulted with me in Hell, if it was not for the gift of grace and salvation from Christ's death on the cross.
I will repeat my point that NO WORLD leader is going to line up exactly with a Christian's beliefs...because they are leaders of this world.
We Christians are not of this world. Any '100%' Christian candidate would never be elected in this world because our views are contrary to what this world hold dear and valuable.
Only recently did it mean that Republicans were anti abortion, anti homosexual marriage and pro guns and pro death penalty, and that Democrats were by and large for those things.
Because certain aspects of the Republican focus lined up with evangelical Christian thought, those Republicans wanted to line up with us and push that as the main differentiator. They're riding a horse that means votes...as are democrats.
But remember, they are leaders of THIS WORLD. This FLAWED creation. If you are expecting them to serve Christ or serve Christianity in their leadership, then you're in for a disappointment.
22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22:22 And when they heard it, they marvelled, and left him, and went away.
15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
God will help us discern His will for this country...but keep in mind that it might not be to have things go 'well' for the USA...if it is part of His PLAN, it will happen.
I am a child of GOD (that is 1st), then I am black, 58, mother, grandmother, wife, sister, etc... But first of all I AM A CHILD OF GOD.... My ethnicity, age, gender, political affiliations, etc does not matter to him....
In this short lifespan I have seen things happen in the world and country that I never dreamth would happen. I can remember my father telling me why I could not sit in the front of the bus (still after Rosa Parks made her mark). I can still remember my mother saying "yes mam" to the lady she cleaned up for and I could not understand why when my mother was a lot older than she was???? I can remember racial slurs said to me and my siblings from white kids and could not understand why????
2006
I can still remember the day I was not given a hard earned well deserved job because I am BLACK....
2008 I can still feel the anger at not getting a much deserved raise because I am old and black...
I was raised to respect everyone, no matter color, gender, ethnicity. By the grace of GOD I have learned to LOVE my brothers and sisters who do not have the same feelings. RACISM is alive and well in the United States of America. It has been remolded into such subtle terms that a lot of people do not recognize it anymore, but it is still there.
If blacks had been given the opportunities after slavery was lifted to raise their families like whites or even close to having the chance to earn decent wages, lives in decent housing, given the opportunity to go to schools with EVERYONE ELSE, treated humanely, maybe we would not have the problems concerning racism in America today (then again maybe not).
What I am trying to say is:
We cannot change what has happened in the past, but we can change what will transpire in the future. Let GOD guide you in your decisions about this election year and let God guide you in the candidate that you pick. DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR OR SEE FROM THE MEDIA, do not believe everything you hear from other people. Seek the truth out for yourself and let the holy spirit guide you in your decision.
I pray that in the short life that I have left I can see my grandchildren looked upon as EQUALS and not leftovers from the racism of the past....
Please keep in your minds this statement from mstovall2003.
"DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR OR SEE FROM THE MEDIA, do not believe everything you hear from other people. Seek the truth out for yourself and let the Holy Spirit guide you in your decision."
We all have experienced racism... I can go on to say how I qualified for a university scholarship, but was denied because I wasn't black. I am underpaid in my profession because I'm female. And when I cleaned the house of another, I said "yes, mam", "no, mam", "I'll do what you say, mam". I have stories of not being accepted/invited because I was from an Irish farming family, or I didn't "come from money", or because I couldn't afford the designer jeans, etc. etc... As a child, we're weren't even accepted into our family church because I was from a divorced family. EVERYONE has experienced racism.
Racism stops with each one of us individually! We have to put in our mind that we will not treat each other in ways that are demeaning...that we will accept all no matter "whatever"! And most important, we need to examine our own hearts and listen to the laws that God has written upon our hearts. The Holy Spirit is our guide and our counselor! And peace starts with me!!!
This is a great blog! The many varied responses are very interesting, I prefer the ones that are spoken in love and grace. I personally think either of the Democratic Candidates would make a terrific President and look forward to the election in November. Thanks for being a brave soul Kathy, keep up the good work.
Pastor Tim, all interesting links, and I recommend your black theology posts to anyone who wishes to increase his/her understanding. (Just click on Pastor Tim's picture, and pull up his blog.)
Growing and MT, we are in agreement that sharing Christ with others is more important than discussing politics. We can probably also agree that there is value is discussing tough issues with our Christian brothers and sisters, even when no unanimous conclusion will be reached. It stretches our minds and helps us to see perspectives other than our own. Thank you both for sharing your thoughts!
Lindsey, thank you for sharing your perspective. It was not my intention to stun you. I agree with you that the two mentioned issues are foundational to the current evangelical culture, although, as Growing said, not to the faith itself (See John 3:16 and/or the Apostle's Creed for faith foundations). My point though was that they are not the most important issues to be considered in the upcoming presidential election. I understand and respect your different perspective and suspect we are not as far apart as you might have perceived.
Amen, mstovall! It does not matter to me who anyone here votes for, but I hope we will all vote intelligently, separating truth from all the media hype and internet fiction, and as you stated, earnestly seek the Holy Spirit's guidance!
I know most of you are probably taking a political break between the primaries and the November elections. Not so in NC, as ours primaries are coming up May 6. I still am uncertain about my presidential vote. I have been confounded the last couple of days, however, with the new deveopments between Obama and Rev. Wright. Well, mostly the Rev. Wright part. Can someone explain to me what he was thinking when he went on this last ranting spree? Does he not want Obama to be elected? Does anyone else perceive that he is Obama's largest stumbling block, and that he seems to want to make it worse and worse? Is he so comsumed with his own 15 minutes of fame that he can't see the damage he has done to Obama's campaign? I was surprised and pleased when Obama publicly separated himself from him yesterday (in NC). Does anyone have a better understanding of all this?
Hi Kathy! I can only offer what I think he may be thinking but here goes: Wright's apostleship is in black liberation theology. His latest comments have come because he's decided that although he is "retired" from the pulpit, he isn't retired from his message. And, now that he has the national stage, he can get his message out to more people simply by agreeing to be interviewed.
I don't think Wright cares if Obama is elected or not. That isn't his calling - its spreading his message. he may prefer Obama to the rest (like certain people on MyChurch prefer Thompson to the rest) simply because Obama is closest to his way of thinking but he's not out campaigning.
Here's what I see as Obama's biggest stumbling block now. Either A) Obama attended the church all these years and never "got it" when Rev Wright was preaching or B) he was attending the church as a political/social statement and never really intending to take the message to heart, or C) he once thought as Wright did and somehow has switched his way of thinking for some reason (maybe political expedience?). Any of those choices do not bode well for the campaign if true.
None of that changes Obama's message. But it shows taht there are some flaws in the white knights armor after all.
I thought I would stop back by here and see if anything has been discussed. I too am like you and still praying for my decision, and yes in NC with the primaries coming up everything is being bombarded with political adds. I know you don't watch TV but there are a lot of adds by Obama, and I am really surprised that I haven't seen that many for Hillary, but maybe I am watching the wrong channels.
I was perplexed by Obama's former pastor as well, and I think Gene summed it up quite nicely. My daughter had talked about some of the same things Gene discussed because of her high school Conversations in Diversity class which is closely watching and debating this developement. I too question Pastor Wrights motives, but I guess the only one who would really know is God. Like someone else said earlier on this blog or another blog about minority movements, there was quite a difference between what Martin Luther King's ideals he tried to get accross to the country and I think (please correct me if I am wrong, I didn't follow this man) what ideals Malcom X was trying to communicate.
Yes this is a very interesting election this year. Thanks Kathy for this discussion and for handling all comments so elequently and unbiased.
Gene, your thoughts are much in line with my own. It seems apparent that Rev. Wright is seizing his moment of national attention for his own self-promotion without concern for what he might be doing to Obama's campaign. And despite Obama's complete renunciation of Rev. Wright this week ("When I say I find these comments appalling, I mean it. It contradicts everything I am about and who I am"), I share your concerns about how to interpret all this from the Obama perspective.
Another interesting reaction to Rev. Wright's recent statements came from John McCain: "I am of the belief that Senator Obama does not reflect the extremist statements." That's am impressive statement about his probable main competitor for the presidency, which says something good about both McCain and Obama. If Obama exhibited any of the extremist views we see in Rev. Wright, I'm sure both the Clinton and McCain campaigns would be all over it. Nonetheless, there are unanswered questions . . .
5 days to the primary, and I don't yet know which party's ballot I'm taking!
Cathy, me too! I didn't post this blog as a political blog. I just really liked this speech! I would have posted it no matter who made it.
Hi Becky! I was typing while you were posting your comment. Thanks for checking in again. You and I had better make up our minds soon! :) It has been funny, hasn't it? NC never matters in the primaries, and we are not used to all this attention. Salisbury has had regular visits - Hillary last week, Bill earlier, I'm not sure if Obama has stopped exactly in Salisbury, but he's been nearby. I haven't gone to any of the rallies. Just listening and reading . . .
On a side note - I thought you might enjoy an article from Der Spiegel - the top newspaper in Germany. It was written about a month ago but things are not really different now than they were then. The title and lead-in sums it up:
American voters are a contradictory bunch: They say they want social welfare, but don't want to pay for it. They claim they are left-leaning, but vote for center-right candidates. Only candidates who can appeal to both sides stand a chance.
(click on the title to open the whole article in a new window) There are a couple of interesting articles there - including one that says that Obama doesn't stand a chance in the final outcome due to his conflicting views and refusal to accept historical election results. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,549103,00.html
One thing for sure - it will be something to remember!
Oh Kathy, sadly I am going to have to admit that I am such a slacker that I have not re-registered to vote due to a change of address. So I will not get to vote in the primary, even though I too do not know which party I will be voting for yet.
Thanks for the reminder I need to either get the card in the mail, or I will have to drive an hour to Vass NC to vote come November. By then gas might be $10 a gallon, while stamps will have only increased a couple of cents.... HA
Interesting reading, Gene! It's always interesting to see what the rest of the world has to say about our issues! I think we do tend to contradict ourselves in our voting. I don't know if most are indecisive or waffling, but I can relate to the indecisiveness!
Becky, at least you have a few months to continue deciding! But you need to go buy your stash of forever stamps now! asap! tomorrow morning! :)
After reading the interactions of this dialogue, I have a better idea of what is in the hearts of the people on My Church and their views on politics, Christianity and racism.
I still say God alone knows what is in the heart of anyone. May He (God) The Creator of the entire universe, put whom He wishes in the (White House). After all, He (God) told us how to go about doing things. His will is that we individually seek (Him) first in all things. His children know His voice and will follow him and vote accordingly. Then and only then His Kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven.
Thank you for commenting, Marcia! Reading through controversial comments is indeed a good way to see into people's hearts, good and bad! Be blessed, friend!
Michael Medved recently interviewed David Freddoso, author of “The Case Against Barack Obama: The Unlikely Rise and Unexamined Agenda of the Media's Favorite Candidate.”
Michael Medved: What’s the most important thing people don’t know about Barack Obama?
David Freddoso: The carefully-crafted media image of Senator Obama as a reformer is a great lie. There is, in fact, nothing in his career to point to him as someone who bridges partisan divides for the sack of positive change. This is quite clear from his record in how he’s dealt with the machine politics of Chicago, how he’s essentially served as an enabler of some extremely corrupt politicians in that city, how he has championed the same old systemic corrupt arrangements that have existed in Washington, and existed in Springfield, and in Chicago, including the various forms of corporate welfare, the special advantages that certain lobbyists seek. Senator Obama has been right in the center of that for his entire career. There is so many cases of it. The pattern is completely unmistakable and I lay them all out in “The Case Against Barack Obama.”
Medved: What is surprising to me is you talk about Barack Obama’s deep and extremely sleazy involvement with the worst of the machine politicians and yet some of the reformers, some of the leading reformers—people like former congressman and federal Judge Abner Mikva who are known as reformers—kind of adopted him. Why?
Freddoso: Well, they took a liking to him. Part of it has to do with the ties that he had in High Park, and in fact they talked Emil Jones, the state Senate president, into adopting him. There is one piece of campaign finance legislation that had been written by and proposed by someone else that ended up given to Obama basically because of a conversation that occurred between Mickva and Jones who is the state Senate president in Illinois. So you can see, nonetheless, that when reformers run an election in Chicago, Senator Obama tends to endorse the other guy, he doesn’t endorse the reformers. This was clearest, as I point out in the first chapter, in a race that was very high profile that took place in 2006. So this is also a very recent phenomenon; this isn’t something from his distant past.
Medved: What about the idea of Obama as a far left candidate rather than a unifier? When did he start this conversation about him being a man of the center, somebody who is going to bring everyone together? When did he cease his identity as being somebody who is on the edge?
Freddoso: Well, you know another one of his biographers, David Mendell, refers to Obama’s charming lack of specificity. So this is something people in Chicago have noticed for quite a while—that he is able to talk about issues as though he’s taking everybody’s side. And people want to listen to him. They kind of want to believe and, as Obama himself says in “The Audacity of Hope,” he becomes something of a blank screen onto which everyone projects their own views and they all want to see him and think he agrees with them. Or, even if he doesn’t agree with them, he would be open to hearing their point of view.
In fact, when you look at Obama’s legislative record he’s really not terribly ideologically open minded. He tends to take a position that is at the far left and stick to it even when members of his own party, even when other liberals aren’t willing to follow him there. I mean one famous example that everyone knows about from this campaign is when he talked about meeting without pre-condition with world leaders of terrorists states. That was something that even his supporters like Tom Daschle couldn’t get behind, and of course Hillary Clinton didn’t agree with that, but also Joe Biden—people with a little more experience in foreign policy weren’t willing to follow him there.
Another terrific example of that, which I think is maybe the most dramatic of his career, was when he was the only Illinois senator in 2001 to speak against a bill that would have protected premature babies from being left to die after they’ve survived abortions. That was one of the very few times that Senator Obama took a really hard position that could hurt him politically and he did it for the sake of a very, very, very extreme abortion agenda that even such abortion advocates as Barbara Boxer were unable to support when the same bill came in front of her in the Unites State Senate. She gave a speech saying “I hope this [the Born Alive Infant Protection Act] passes unanimously”—and she voted for it and it did pass unanimously. So, Senator Obama definitely has an ideological, a rigid ideological view of just about every issue that you can think of.
PERAPGA, you really have a long name! Do you hold all these titles in a church? You are a busy man!
You have copied a post between a conservative talk show host and a conservative reporter (neither of which I had heard of before your post) who do not like the Democrats' candidate. No surprise. I wonder if you have had time to watch or read some unbiased material as well, like the debate Friday night, or the Saddleback interviews, which are still available on YouTube. I suspect your mind is made up, and there's nothing wrong with that, but some of the alarmist propaganda being passed around about Obama is playing on our vulnerability. If McCain is the best man for the Office, may he win the election, and likewise for Obama, and may we not fall for or perpetuate lies about either candidate.
Hi Gary! I can't speak for "we," but my opinion that this is the best speech I've ever heard on racism has not changed, and especially now that Obama is President of the United States, I predict this speech will be immortalized and honored for decades and maybe centuries.
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I have two best friends, one in New York state and one in North Carolina. My best friend in North Carolina is very dark. I'm lighter than a cracker with a suntan. We loved to go fishing together and I could not believe the looks we got at times. My friend (an electrician) told me that he and a white colleague were on the job at a rich white person's home one day, when he overheard the owner tell his partner to "hurry up and get that n__ out of here." I was shocked! You are right. Stupid, ignorant racism is all around us and it stinks.
