Greek is one of those trickie things.  Luckily I have some people who share with me their wise readings of the Greek.  After posting this, over at my blog, someone with greek knowledge pointed out that "in Matthew 28 Jesus tells us to make disciples and then goes on to identify how we make disciples ... by baptizing and teaching."

Curious why that's the case?  I was.  You can get a little lesson in the Greek grammer for that verse here.

It's always good to learn new things. 

     The subject of water baptism has long been called a great issue and no doubt has been made such by many church leaders of the past and present.  In looking at it, I think you need to first consider its importance, or the necessity of being baptized.

     Christian water baptism was instituted by Jesus Christ.  If it is not important in the plan of God, why did Jesus command it in Matthew 28:19?  And why did Peter follow up by saying, "Be baptized every one of you," and by commanding the Gentiles to be baptized (Acts 2:38; 10:48)?  I think we need to remember two points about the importance of water baptism.  First, whatever Christ definitely established and ordained cannot be unimportant, whether we understand its significance or not.  Second, Christ and the apostles showed the importance of baptism by observing it.  Jesus walked many miles to be baptized, though He was without sin, saying, "For thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness" (Matthew 3:13-16.)

     It is true that water itself does not contain any saving virtue, but God has chosen to include it in His plan of salvation.  Peter explained, "Baptism doth also now save us (not putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 3:21).  According to Luke 7:30, "the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized."

     According to the Scriptures, the proper mode of baptism is immersion.  "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water" (Matthew 3:16).  "And they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him" (Acts 8:38).  "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Romans 6:4).  A corpse is not buried by placing it on top of the ground and sprinkling a little soil on it, but by covering it completely.

     According to the World Book Encyclopedia, "At first all baptism was by complete immersion" (vol. 1, p. 651).  And the Catholic Encyclopedia states, "In the early centuries, all were baptized by immersion in streams, pools, and baptisteries" (vol.2, p.263).  Immersion was not felt to be convenient after the Catholic Church instituted infant baptism; thus the mode was changed to sprinkling.  (See Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th ed., vol.3, pp. 365-66.)

     Repentance identifies us with the death of Christ, and baptism identifies us with His burial.  Coming forth from the watery grave of baptism and receiving new life in the Holy Spirit identifies us with his resurrection. 

     Jesus commanded His disciples to "teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).  This is one of the reasons I do not believe infants should be considered candidates for water baptism.  Jesus commanded us to teach, and infants do not have the mental capacity for that type of instruction.  Also, Jesus did not command his disciples to use the words 'in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost' as a formula, but He commanded them to baptize in "the name."  The word name is used here in the singular, and it is the focal point of the baptismal command.  The titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost describe who Jesus is and His relationship to humanity.  Jesus is the supreme, saving name described here.  "Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). (Also, Paul wrote, "Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him" (Colossians 3:17).  Water baptism is done in both word and deed.  We cannot afford to overlook this command to the church.     

     Jesus is the name in which the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are revealed.  The angel of the Lord instructed Joseph, "She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).  Jesus said, "I come in my Father's name," and "The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,...the Father will send in my name" (John 5:43; 14:26).  So, by baptizing in the name of Jesus, we honor the Godhead.  "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9).

     Luke 24:45-47 records that just before His ascension, Jesus opened the disciples' understanding.  It was necessary that their understanding be opened, and many today need this same operation to understand the Scriptures.  Then Jesus said to him, "Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day."  The disciples had their understanding opened so that they could grasp the vast importance of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.  Verse 47 describes the commission that Jesus then gave:  "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations [Jews and Gentiles], beginning at Jerusalem."

     Peter was one of that number to whom Jesus had spoken and whose understanding had been opened.  After having listened to these instructions, a few days later he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to preach on the Day of Pentecost.  The hearts of the hearers were pierced and, feeling condemned, they cried out to Peter and the other apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"  (Acts 2:37).  Peter did not hesitate but boldly answered, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38).  "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized, and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls" (Acts 2:41).

     Some say that Peter told them to be baptized in Jesus' name because they were Jews and this baptism was to make them acknowledge Jesus Christ.  But several years later when Peter was at the house of Cornelius, he commanded him and his household, who were Gentiles, to be baptized in the name of the Lord" (Acts 10:48).  (Most translations actually say, "In the name of Jesus Christ.")  If Peter was wrong on the Day of Pentecost, he surely had ample time to be corrected before he went to the house of Cornelius.  There are many other Scriptures that verify Jesus' name baptism as well.

     The church is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Eph. 2:20).  The apostles not only preached baptism by total immersion in water in Jesus' name, but they practiced it.  Nowhere can we find that they baptized using the words "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."  Instead, we find them baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.  In baptizing in Jesus' name, they fulfilled the command of the Lord in Matthew 28:19.

     Paul said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8).  I think this should be a solemn warning to us and we should take heed.

     I also think that some attention should be focused on the fact that all of the following Scripture verses in the King James version of the Bible refer to baptism for the 'remission' of sin and not for the 'forgiveness' of sin, HUGE difference - (Mt. 26:28; Mr. 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38 and Rom. 3:5).  It's the newer versions that have replaced the word remission with forgiveness.

Grace to you, In Jesus' Name ~ Linda  <><

You have some interesting thoughts here.  Baptism is definitely ordained by God.  Jesus himself said to do it.  But, was it the Catholic church that instituted infant baptism?  I don't think so.  The first I have read about the debate of infant baptism was in the 3rd century (I have read of infant baptism before this just not a debate of it until this point).  At this point there was just the church.  It wasn't until it divided in about 1000 AD that there became the Orthodox and Catholic churches.  To have a debate about infant baptism it had to be going on.  We know it was happening in the early church post the 1st century church.  So, this isn't a Catholic institution.

Is immersion required for baptism?  I don't think so and I blogged about why last week.  You can get that here. There are a lot of reasons for saying it isn't required and that alone is a hotly debated issue in itself.  The debate on immersion goes back before there was the major division in the church at about 1000 AD.  So, again, this isn't a Catholic thing.

I think you Encyclopedia Britanica is a bit off on this.  If you look at the link in the paragraph above you will see evidence of non-immersion baptism going back to the 1st century church.

I realize this is a hotly debated issue.  I challenge anyone with an opinion on this to read and thoughtfully consider the other points on this.  If you are someone who is against infant baptism what does the other side say and why?  If you are for infant baptism what does the other side say and why?  What are the cultural aspects here?  What does scripture say?  Can you get someone to help you read the greek itself?

Check out http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?word=Baptism&search.x=33&search.y=17&search=Lookup&action=Lookup where you can see differing views and get an intro into them.  For example there is the lutheran and baptist views.  They are well thought out and give some detail about the language, the culture, etc.  Worth a read.  But, these are just two views.  The Catholic is slightly different.  The Orthodox is slightly different.

Hi Matt,

From what I've studied about baptism, total immersion in water is a must.  I say this because in identifying ourselves with Christ, we follow his example.  The Scripture says that Jesus went down into the water and came up out of the water.  That does not sound like sprinkling to me. Jesus always did everything to please the Father and I think we should too.  Also, in Romans 6:4 and Col. 2:12 the Scriptures make reference to being buried with him.  To be buried by something you have to be completely covered by it.  In water baptism we identify with Christ's death, burial and resurrection as I said in my earlier comment.  By repenting we die to our old sinful nature and turn from it (death).  Then we go down into the waters of baptism (burial).  Finally we come up out of the waters of baptism a new creature in Christ (resurrection)  Hallelujah!!!  That is just so exciting to me.

I made the statement that the Catholic Church instituted infant baptism because that it what I read.  I do not know that with any certainty.  I do know, however, that many religious traditions do come from Catholicism because it had such a huge influence back then and many of those traditions and observances even remain in many orthodox christian churches today.  I don't find any accounts of infants being baptized by sprinkling or any other method in the Bible.  All Bible accounts of baptism seem to indicate the presence of much water, i.e. rivers, etc. And please don't blame me for what the Encyclopaedia Brittanica prints. What I stated in my previous comment is from research they did about baptism being instituted by the Catholic Church, not me.  I much rather believe what the Scripture says.:)

I did say that a candidate for baptism needs to be taught before they are baptized.  This will surprise you, I'm sure, but I got it from the exact place you did and that you referenced in your other blog regarding infant baptism, Matthew 28:20 which says, " teach them to obey everything I have commanded you".  Baptism was a command in Jesus' Great Commission and he prefaced that command by saying 'teach them' [to obey everything].  It just makes good common sense if you think about it.  "Repent and be baptized....another command (Acts 2:38); He that believeth and is baptized (Mark 16:6).  An infant, or even a very small child for that matter would never have the true understanding of repentance or turning from their sins.  They don't know what sin is yet.  An infant would not have the capability to believe, it's just not in them at that age and they don't have, as I said before, the mental faculties to be able to be taught and truly understand the teaching about Jesus and baptism.  I hope this helps you see where I am coming from.

Peace ~ Linda   <><   

Hi Linda,

You make some good comments about baptism and immersion.  Those verses about being being burried with Christ give a lot to think about.  But, the part with Jesus coming up out of the water is something that doesn't sit right with me.  Take a look at the NAS version of Matthew 3:16 where it says, "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,"  You can find more details on the text here.  This is one place where we have to be care of the translations and transliterations out there.  Going back to the Greek I don't see it hinting at immersion.  The text shows more like "my mom pulled me up out of the bath tub."

Scripture also uses other terms for baptism.  Take for example Ephesians 5:26 where it says, "so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,".  The term here is one of washing.  There are other examples like this.  There is a lot more to it than we are covering here. 

Again, I am not against immersion.  Just making a case that it's not required.

You are right that we don't find cases of infants being baptized in the bible.  In many cases there isn't much detail given on the baptisms.  And, there is nothing saying to exclude infants.

As for the badies of water the baptisms were in you are right that they happened often at bodies of water.  This gives me a few thoughts.  First, they didn't have access to water like we do today.  It was a hot item.  Easy access was at lakes and rivers.  Second, it doesn't say how they were being baptized in these places.  Were they immersed?  Where they standing in the water and having it poured on them?  There basically isn't a description of how they did it in the bible.  Third, there are picture in the 1st century Christian catacombs that depict baptism as a person standing in a body of water with wather being poured on them with a sea shell or cup.  This is where the sea shell symbolism used in some church baptisms comes from.  This is a regular theme and Jesus baptism is even depicted this way in the art.  Fourth, they have found a 1st centruy church baptismal font that is to small for a person to be immersed in.  There is a lot more to it than these things and great cases are made on both sides.  I am just pointing out that there is a lot to this.

For teaching before baptism Matthew 28:19-20 doesn't hold up.  I used to think it did.  And, again I was remided by a friend of mine named Joe who can read the Greek what that verse is all about.  That verse basically says, "in Matthew 28 Jesus tells us to make disciples and then goes on to identify how we make disciples ... by baptizing and teaching."  You can read the grammer break down here. 

Why don't you think an infant has the capability to believe?  They do have the capability to be taugh.  It's not as quickly or easily as you and I but they can definitely be taught and raised as disciples.  Infants can believe.  And, It's not just about belief but faith (a very different thing).  I think infants know more about faith than anyone today.  They have to have amazing faith in the position they are in.  I really wonder what is going on in their heads.  They were just formed in the womb by God and now they are in the world.  Truely amazing.  John the baptist leaped for joy in the womb when Jesus came near.  What do infants believe and have faith in?  What do they loose as they grow up in this sinful world?

Did I miss anything?  I think I responded to your stuff.  In any case I am off to bed.  It's sleepie time.

You make a lot of good points. I just hope you consider the other side, too.  There is a lot more to this baptism thing than most people bring out.  And the arguments on both side are fairly strong and interesting. 

Linda,

Looking at this again I realized that didn't write about your Acts 2:38 or Mark 16:16 passages.  I did some digging on them out of curiosity.  In Acts 2:38 in the more literal NAS translation it says, 'Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."' We need to be careful how we read this.  The common use of the Greek word 'and' used here is also.  Sometimes it is translated then but that is a rare case and in none of the translations that I can find does this get translated to then or another word giving an order to things.  We could read that as, Repent and also be baptized".

Mark 16:16 is another case.  The whole reading is, "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."  This is again using that greek work kai for and.  In none of the translations (meaning the translators look at this didn't see it) do they show order in these words.  It is literally an 'and also' language.

Yes, I am one of those crazy people who likes word studdies.  In all these debates that happen I just want to seek the truth.  I'm not worried about winning for any denominational side.  I am just concerned with finding the truth and deep studdies seem to shed a lot of light on things. 

Linda - thank you for raising these points.  They have gotten me to do some digging in lexicons and multiple translations to try and see what is going on in these verses.  It was fun and enlightening.

- Matt 

Hi Matt,

First, I'd just like to say that this conversation with you has been just delightful.  In Proverbs 27:17 it says that, "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."  I once read a commentary on this verse of Scripture that explained that that intimates both the pleasure and the advantage of conversation.  Wise and profitable discourse sharpens men's wits.  Those who have knowledge may, by conversing, have something added to them.  I feel like that is what's happened here and I'm thankful for that because you can run into a lot of argumentive spiritual bullies out there; so thanks for being a spiritual gentleman who presents himself as such in the manner by which you speak.  It's really nice. It's just like the Scripture at the bottom of this comment section says, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. 1 Thess. 5:11   You stated that you are not worried about winning for any denominational side, but that you just want to seek truth and I applaud you for that. Afterall, the Scripture says that there is but "One faith, one Lord and one baptism, one God and Father of all," and this should be our concern, seeking the one who can lead us into ALL TRUTH!

I just have a few questions and comments for you.  Why doesn't the part with Jesus coming up out of the water sit right with you?  You said the text shows more like "my mom pulled me up out of the bathtub."  I can even appreciate that, as long as while you were in the bathtub you were completely covered or buried by the water! lol :)  I've just got to stick with the whole burial thing, Matt, and that can only be accomplished if one is submerged completely under the water.  How do we show the burial part of the "death, burial and resurrection" of our Lord, if we haven't been through the complete burial process?

I also believe that where the Scripture talks about having been cleansed by the washing of water with the word; it is not referring to actual baptism in water, but rather to the type of 'cleansing affect' that reading and studying the word of God can have on a person.  If you read the word of God prayerfully, and consistently, it will, no doubt, make you want to 'clean up your act' so to speak. It will unquestionably transform you and renew your mind, but it doesn't baptize you the way Jesus was referring to in his Great Commission command.

Again, in your comments you referred to the places where there was water for baptism; rivers and such and did people actually go down into the water or did the baptizer just pour water over them? My thinking is still, of course, the same on this.  To achieve the 'burial' result you have to be covered, so yes, I think they were immersed.  As far as the 1st century artists depicting baptisms as a person standing in water with someone pouring water from a cup or a seashell; to me that's all it is is a depiction.  All kinds of ideas can be shown through artwork, but does it make them true?  Who really knows.  Many artists in the Renaissance period depicted Jesus as having long, flowing blond hair and piercing blue eyes - true?  I think not.  Jesus, first off was a Jew, so it was pretty likely that he had dark eyes and hair; and the Bible tells us plainly that it is a 'shame' for a man to have long hair, so I doubt that Jesus did.  Drawings are simply artists' conceptions and have no scriptural authorization.

The other thing I wanted to ask you is how do you know that infants have the capability of being taught?  I'm not getting that.  Thanks for your time and comments.  Very interesting stuff!  Bye for now...

Linda <><  

Linda,

I, too, love conversation like this.  It sharpens my mind and gives me a lot to think about.

One thing you will typically find about me is that I love tracability.  Stuff always needs to be traced to soemthing.  It's the engineer in me.  When it comes to immersion you can find more detail on my thoughts here.  This looks a little at the art, archeology, and extrabiblical 1st century documents that do talk about and display baptism in a non-immersion way.  I challenge you (and please do cause I would love to see it) find something art, archeology, and extrabiblical that shows immersion from the 1st century church.

Why doesn't immersion sit right with me?  It's not immersion that doesn't sit right with me.  That is a powerful thing, no doubt.  It's having it as a requirement.  If it were required why would the teaching of the Apostles as recorded in the Didache even describe pouring 3 times on the head as an option?  I am one of those firm believers that God doesn't require immersion to make it happen.  It's not about how covered in water we are but about the word combined with water and God acting in the whole thing.  I recently herd someone say that baptism is 1% us and 99% God and I happen to agree.

So, the question I have is where does it say immersion in the bible?  Where does it say that?  I don't read anything.  There are verses people read into and try to point that out but it isn't explicit and the language used is very open and non-descriptive.  It really can't be used to justify immersion.  I think that's part of the beauty God did here.  He told us it was the water and the word.  That is was God acting through baptism.  And, beyond that He didn't ritualize it with extreme detail.  He left it open to variation (as long as what he dictated is there).  He left it open to cultural differences.

You may also be interested in this blog post.  It talks about the early church and infant baptism.

You don't think infants are capable of being taught?  I think they are some of the best learners.  Everyone they meet is a teacher to them.  They learn to walk and talk.  They hang on to all that is going on around them.  Are they capable of being taught?  I don't doubt it. The question is how fast we expect them to learn. How fast should we expect them to learn?

I do look at passages like Romans 6:4 that talk about burrial and see how someone can see immersion.  But, then the logictition (is that a word?) comes out in me.  It says we were burried with him through baptism.  It doesn't say that baptism requires being burried or immersed so to speak. As a subject the sentence does not describe the means of baptism.

Personally, I would prefer that the bible specified.  It would have ended a lot of debate, help how the public looks at the church, and help us work together more.  But, if this were squashed the devil would have found something else.

Good thoughts.
- Matt 

Hey Matt,

I know you said you were a 'word guy', so I've got some more info. for you that's pretty amazing.  I did a little more digging myself and came up with some really good stuff, (I think so anyway :)) 

The form or mode of water baptism is undeniably immersion.  The very term  baptize has for its root the Greek word baptizo, which means "to dip, plunge, submerge, immerse."  All scriptural incidents of baptism support this position.  Let's look at these three for instance: "John also was baptizing in Aenon...because there was much water there" (John 3:23).  When Jesus was baptized by John, again, as I stated before, He "went up straightway out of the water" (Matthew 3:16).  And the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip "went down both into the water,...and he baptized him" (Acts 8:38).

The Bible gives us specific instructions of deep spiritual significance for the proper administration of water baptism, and God means for everyone to comply with them, (He wants us to be buried with him in baptism).  I believe the apostles knew the exact meaning of all the teachings of Jesus concerning baptism and carried them out explicitly.  I believe, like the apostles, His Body needs to carry out those teachings today as well. 

As far as infant baptism; again, I still stand on the fact that babies cannot be taught, they cannot comprehend repentance, which is a command required for being baptized and the Bible says, "Train up a child in the way that they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it".  I think when a child is of a certain age you can reason with them and then they are able to comprehend the need for being born again (born of the water and of the Spirit).  Until that age of reason and understanding, it simply is not possible.  Even many adults have a hard time understanding spiritual things, how much more so a little baby.  You are correct in that there is no reference to infant baptism in the Scriptures, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was or wasn't carried out.  My personal opinion is that it was reserved for children at an age of reasoning and adults. 

Lets's keep on digging...this is great!  Love in the matchless Name of Jesus ~ Linda <><

Linda,

Nice call on the word baptizo.  That is a word that has been of particular interest to me through all of this.  It is a derivative word of bapto and one of the foundational uses we have of the word is from Nicander about cooking.

The first definition of the word is "to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge".  This is the context it is used in Nicander recipie.  But, there is mroe to it than this definition.  It also means "to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe".  Here you also see submerging as part of the definition.  But, we see washing and making clean with water as another option here.  To bathe does not mean to submerge.  Lets go to how this washing is used in context of scripture.  In places like Luke 11:38 the word baptizo is translated wash as in "And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner."  Or in places like Mark 7:4 where the word is translated cleanse or wash and is again talking about cleaning up.  So, what kind of washing or cleaning is this?  Washing up for meals certainly wasn't about immersion.  Water for these people wasn't as easy to come by as it is today.  There just wasn't enough water.  There is also a detailed example of Jesus doing the premeal washing before the last supper.  There was no immersion there.

See why the issue with the words and there are denominational differences?  This gets complicated quickly.  Even when we dig into the words and how they are used. 

Now, the up and down part of the text.  This really is one of those things scholars argue about.  Is it Jesus coming out of the water after beig submerged?  Or, is it Jesus coming up out of the water onto dry land?  Both would involve going up and coming out of the water.  Man, I wish there was more detail given sometimes.

If the Apostles knew the exact meaning why would the Didache (which is an early church work documenting their teachings) even state as a method pouring 3 times on the head?

And, then we come back to the repentance thing.  It does say "Repent and be baptized" in a number of places, no doubt.  But, does it say "Repent then be baptized"?  No.  Where is there something in the bible that specifies an order of repenting and then being baptized?  If it doesn't, which I assert is the case, than a child doesn't have to be willingly repentant or understand repentance to take part in a baptism. So, please show me where it sas repent then be baptized.

I am enjoying this conversation.  Are you enjoying studying the scriptures as much as I am in this?

- Matt 

Hey, Matt

Just another quick question - The Scripture says, Those who believe and are baptized shall be saved.  To believe is a pretty tall order:

1 a : to have a firm religious faith b : to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2 : to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>
3 : to hold an opinion : THINK <I believe so>
transitive verb
1 a : to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>
2 : to hold as an opinion : SUPPOSE <I believe it will rain soon>
- be·liev·er noun

You really think an infant baby can formulate an idea?  I have a really, really hard time with that.  I don't think a baby qualifies as a believer.  More food for thought....

Peace ~ Linda  <><

If I may...

Consider this passage:

The picture of faith being presented here is the opposite of what we're used to thinking. We tend to think "When a person is old enough he can hear the gospel, process the information and then make a decision for Christ." These verses say that one must receive the kingdom "like a child," and at least some of the children that Jesus was receiving (and thus holding up as examples of faith) were infants.

There are at least a few other verses of relevance to this topic of infant baptism and faith. Matt has already talked about some of them; I may chime in again later when I'm able. 

The Luke verse is a good call on the belief thing.

Lets take a look at the Mark 16:16 verse which is the ones that talks about the belief and be baptized stuff.

This is an interesting verse to me. First, as I said before, this talks about belief and baptism.  It doesn't say anything about an order like belief before baptism.  Second, it says that those who believe and are baptized are saved.  But, those that don't believe aren't.  What about those that believe and are not baptized?  You will find in other places in scripture it says that those who simply have faith will be saved.  That logic fits with this statement.

What about infants?  Can the believe?  Are they capable?  This also brings up people who are borm mentally handicapped.  Are they capable?  There are those who are still infants mentally when they are older than me.  Or people who live in parts of the world where they never get the Gospel message.  What about them?  This is a much bigger topic than infants.

The verses escape me at the moment but the bible does address this.  Personally, a good and faithful God would handle this in a good way.  He is capable of knowing if they really didn't have the opportunity.  He is capable of looking in their lives and hearts and making the right call.

And, is it belief in God that we are saved by?  Don't even satanists believe in God?  The bible is quite clear on this.  It's faith not just belief.  Faith is what made Abraham righteous.  The bible says we are saved by faith.  And, as jam137 points out Jesus said we should have faith like a child.  Just something to chew on.