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| A Question for Catholics |
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Somebody with a Catholic background help me out here. I am asking this in all sincerity. Yesterday at the store, we had a run on rosaries. Several people came in to buy them who are going into DC. Their hope is that the Pope will bless their rosary.
Can someone educate me on why this is important to the person walking out their Catholic faith? |
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Cathy |
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April 17, 2008 at 7:03am |
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| I just want to know if the pope can bless the Caps tonight! |
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Cheryl |
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April 17, 2008 at 7:06am |
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I have studied the Catholic Faith in a diversity of religions course I taught at church and the Catholic faith believes if the Pope will grant a blessing on the rosary then ones prayers will be more effective and heard by God. They believe if the Pope kisses them then they are saved and will spend eternity in heaven.
Great question, I look forward to following this blog as we have many who are Catholic on this site, I too look forward to hearing from those in this faith. |
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| Based on what happened in the last game, they need more than the Pope's blessing! |
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| I too look forward to the responses. My knowledge of the Catholic Faith is limited and I would love to learn more regarding the Catholic beliefs. |
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Cathy |
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April 17, 2008 at 7:10am |
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| I hope the pope will pucker up and kiss Alex Ovechkin !! |
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Wow Cheryl, can that really be?
Malleus, where are you to clear up this confusion! |
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| We need the magic again. Cathy, where is that video you posted that showed the Alex power? Maybe we need to have the Pope review it for us... |
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| man, I wish he'd bless my roseries too, the frost just about killed em this week. I wonder if he can bless my azalia bushes too? Somebody let me know please. Thanks God bless y'all. |
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Mike, MD is probably sleeping in...he is on the left coast, you know...
MP, you have to be related to Gilda Radner. |
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Cheryl |
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April 17, 2008 at 7:40am |
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| Mullet...ROFL!!!!! |
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Yawn.Actually Voice I was asleep, but my Mom called me to tell me to get up and watch the papal mass on television (and she's not even Catholic!) The reason that the papal blessing of the rosary is important since it is also accomopanied by a plenary indulgence. |
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| MD, thanks. Get some breakfast and come back and explain what you just said...I am sure it makes sense to you, but you lost me... |
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An before you ask a plenary indulgence is s the full or partial remission of temporal punishment due for sins which have already been forgiven. The indulgence is granted by the church after the sinner has confessed and received absolution. The belief is that indulgences draw on the storehouse of merit acquired by Jesus' sacrifice. It replaced a lot of the more severe penances of the early Church.Though I think one would be better servd by the old penances. Plenary indulgences are always conditional. In other word you have to do something in order to "activate" it (in this case pray the rosary). Just please tell me they were nice rosaries and not the cheap plastic ones...lol
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| MD, rest assured, we decided a long time ago that we would only carry the really nice ones. I think they average about $50 each...some are much more expensive. The stones are beautiful and some have nice cases, too. |
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I thank you and the Church thanks you. Hope the answer helped. |
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I wonder if itt would apply to this? http://www.virtualrosary.org/ Though bringing a laptop to Mass would be quite gauche.... |
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Cheryl |
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April 17, 2008 at 8:33am |
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Malleus, wait...don't go! what about my comment...is this still a belief or a practiced belief?
| | | Cheryl |  | April 17, 2008 at 9:06am | |
| I have studied the Catholic Faith in a diversity of religions course I taught at church and the Catholic faith believes if the Pope will grant a blessing on the rosary then ones prayers will be more effective and heard by God. They believe if the Pope kisses them then they are saved and will spend eternity in heaven.
Great question, I look forward to following this blog as we have many who are Catholic on this site, I too look forward to hearing from those in this faith. |
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I almost laughed when I read Cheryl's first response. When you gave your course on the Catholic faith I hope that you taught your class what Catholics really believe. I'm pretty sure that the Church doesn't say that if the Pope kisses your Rosary that you are automatically saved because of it. I do hope that you were joking. Getting something blessed is not only a Catholic thing. I've seen Protestant ministers on TV sending out blessed cloths if you give so much money to their ministry. The Rosary is a prayer or a meditation on the life of Christ. If you would like more information about how to pray the Rosary I invite you to check out RosaryArmy.com. The Rosary is actually quite Scriptural. • The Glorious Mysteries • The Joyful Mysteries • The Luminous Mysteries • The Sorrowful Mysteries God Bless.
- Joshua P.s. Cheryl, I do hope that you know I was just giving you a hard time. I've heard a lot of non-Catholic Christians teach things about the Catholic faith that simply are untrue or they purposely misrepresent the Catholic faith. This is why I really like this post, because instead of assuming she knows what Catholics believe, voice_in_dc asked the question. I love sharing my faith and if a person has a genuine question then I am more than happy to explain what it is we believe and more importantly why we believe. You see the problem is that Catholic Christians get attacked with questions by our protestant brothers and sisters who assume they already know what Catholics believe (and usually they don't really). So if you honestly have a question about the Catholic faith don't be afraid to ask, but please do it charitably; throwing more questions on top of questions before we are able to respond, is why so many Catholic Christians come off as defensive. A charitable dialogue is the way to go! I hope this helps : ) |
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Joshua, in Cheryl's defense, I suspect she was teaching a class at her church from some prepared curriculum which is why she was interested, too. I do agree with you that there are a lot of bad teachings out there when it comes to any denominational structure. Since the RCC has a lot of structure and a lot of heritage, even Catholics don't know how to defend their faith. I only say that because some that I have asked have no clue why they do certain things. This only adds to the disconnects that happen in the church.
Thanks for sharing the links. I will check them out. |
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| BTW, (tongue in cheek), does the RCC believe there is such a thing as a non-Catholic Christian? |
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Joshua, just read through the links. They aren't too helpful for a nonCatholic. If indeed a person remembers each of the scriptures cited while they are praying the rosary, then it is truly a powerful prayer. However, one thing jumps out at me...the closing prayer...why is it that a person saying this does not believe they can approach Christ directly with their prayers?
Copied from one of the web links given above:
Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Oh Holy, Oh Clement, Oh Sweet Virgin Mary, pray for us, Oh Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen. |
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Cheryl |
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April 17, 2008 at 9:32am |
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| Joshua, thanks for the response brother, I was teaching on many faiths and the diversity and understanding of many common denominators in them. I also have many family member who are Catholic here in Oklahoma. It maybe a geographical belief more than anything; however, the statement was conveyed as a truth in the Catholic belief. Also, I love it and agree with you whole heartily, this type of dissertation is the only type I feel that honor's God, conflict is not peace in blogging and discussions. Thank you for your wisdom! |
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| Dennis, the article you post focuses on who it was that was sent to the Gentiles. I think all are in agreement that Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Where the RCC belief comes in is that the entire Church - including Gentile and Jew - would rest upon the Rock He called Peter. That is my very limited understanding. |
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Cathy |
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April 17, 2008 at 9:46am |
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| So what about the Caps? |
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voice_in_d..., I totally agree with you that sadly not enough Catholics know their faith as much as they should. I know many Protestant and so-called non-Denominationalist (which I used to attend) who really do not know their faith that well. For instance I work with a couple ladies who are of the Brethren faith and one talks constantly about the rapture. I asked her if she is Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-trib, or doese she believe something else and she didn't know. My wife was also a member of the Brethren Church and I used to attend their youth group and they said that the Rapture will be just like the Lefe Behind Series! Wow! Is this what Scripture says? The concept of Pre-trib rapturism didn't even become popular until arount the 1800's by a guy by the name of Darby. To answer your second question: Generally speaking, anyone who is a baptized Christian is a member of the catholic Church. To answer your third question about the Rosary and having a devotion to the woman chosen by God to give birth to our Lord: Martin Luther had a devotion to Mary and there are many Christians who do. We do pray directly to Christ. Do you ask others on earth to pray for you? Why don't you just go directly to Christ? When we die are we separated from the Body of Christ? Christ, as the head of the body not only hears the prayers of the faithful here on earth, but also the prayers of those in Heaven. The Rosary is not only a reflection on the Life of Christ, but also has devotional prayers to our Blessed Mother who is not against Christ as so many Christians tend to put her. Cheryl, Understood corrected : ) I pray that your family members will learn the Why's of their faith, and more importanly, if they do not have a relationship with our Lord then I pray that he opens their hearts. And I ask Mary to pray for all those who do not know her Son ; ) Dennis, Who runs this website that you linked to? I'm just curious. I'll take a look at the information you have posted in the link, but I don't have time to research and comment every claim made on the link you gave. God Bless. |
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Malleus, wait...don't go! what about my comment...is this still a belief or a practiced belief? Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to finish some reading before my class at 11 AM. It is still (as Voice's depleted rosary stock demonstrates) a practiced belief. |
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Elena |
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April 17, 2008 at 10:29am |
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| I used to be catholic. To put in lamest terms, the pope signifies the highest authority here on earth after God, Jesus and Spirit. To have a rosary, stamp or anything blessed by him, it's not only priceless but it signifies God's blessings over you and yours. |
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Thanks for the response Joshua. You asked "Do you ask others on earth to pray for you? Why don't you just go directly to Christ?" I sure do ask others to join in prayer with me. However, I don't ask my grandmother who died several years ago to offer intercessory prayer for me. To me, the prayer implies some power that Mary has to intercede and get Jesus' attention that we don't have. It is confusing.
Your statement about Christians being against Mary is interesting "who is not against Christ as so many Christians tend to put her" Can you give me an example of what you mean? |
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MD, I think Cheryl was talking about the "kisses from the pope" statement.
Elena, I think I "get it" when it comes to the positional authority of the Pope. I think I would prefer he simply bless me instead of blessing some possession of mine. |
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I just want everyone to know that I appreciate the dialog here. I am just sitting back learning....
Thanks! |
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Elena |
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April 17, 2008 at 10:49am |
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I hear ya...sad to say I participated in that sort of thing once upon a time and it didn't make much since back them either - but hey to each their own! All we can do is pray for Catholics and hope that one day they realize that the only way to God is through His Son Jesus Christ. 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me. That it is by faith not of works that we go into heaven....
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I have many Catholic acquaintances that call Jesus Lord and are confident of their salvation through grace by faith. It is all the jargon we use (like I just did) as well as what Catholics use that makes it hard for all of us in the Church to communicate with one another.
There are indeed some details of the RCC that I do not understand. MD has been very helpful in helping me to understand what I don't understand (if that makes sense). I also have a significant appreciation for the traditions of the RCC. I think that evangelical protestants have thrown off so much of their tradition they, sometimes, don't even know who they are - an identity crisis in the Body - and it is shameful, IMHO. |
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| I do believe that saints in heaven can offer intercessory prayers on our behalf. I believe that John saw this during his writing of Revelation. I do believe that the Bible teaches that saints watch us here on earth ("behold, seeing that we have such a cloud of witnesses)....We can and should go boldly before the throne of grace....as the Bible also teaches. But any help that we can secure on our behalf from those here on earth or those who have already passed on is just a plus in my book. |
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| Excellent point Loren. Thanks... |
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| Also - to Eliza. We need to make the distinction between works attained salvation and salvation retained by works. I believe that Catholics (and Cade/Mal can clarify) believe that salvation is by faith in Christ alone. But that to retain that salvation that works must follow. And not necessarily good deeds, but obedience to God and His commands. This gets back to the discussion of "Does true faith produce works?"....in the discussion it needs to be clarified what indeed "works" are in relation to salvation and attaining or retaining salvation. |
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Elena, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6). Amen! That it is by faith not of works that we go into heaven? Is this what the Bible says? I agree with what John 14:6 is saying, but I think you have a misunderstanding of what Catholics mean by good works. Take a look at James 2:24, which happens to be the only place where the words "faith alone" can be found in the New Testament. "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24). St. Paul says, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12). Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think you are confusing works of the lawgood works. St. Paul also says in Galatians, "We ourselves . . .who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified" (Galatians 2:15–16). Faith is so important. (Rom 3:28, John 3:16, 1 John 4:15), bus so is forgiving the sins of others (Matt 6:14-15); caring for one’s family (1 Tim 5:8); feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned (Matt 25:31-46); keeping the Commandments (Matt 19:17 and 1 John 2:3-4); loving our brothers (1 John 2:10); denying ourselves and picking up our crosses daily (Luke 9:23); doing the will of the Father (Matt 7:21); eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the Son of Man (John 6:51-58); giving a return for the talents the Master has given us (Matt 25:14-30); being baptized (John 3:3-5, 1 Ptr 3:20-21); confessing our sins (1 John 1:9)...all by the grace of God. These are just a few of examples of what Catholics mean by good works. But again, without faith all the good works in the word are useless. Hope this helps you understand the Catholic understanding of Faith and Works a little better. voice_in_d..., I'd gladly ask your grandmother to pray for me. : ) I guess I can't really give you an example of when a person has put Mary against Christ. I might have been exaggerating the fact that many people, when they hear the name Mary (in context to the Virgin who gave birth to our Lord) cringe. I do however believe that Christ does hear his mother's prayers as well as the prayers of the saints in Heaven. I'm thinking that I read in the book of Revelation that the prayers of the saints are taken up to the heavenly alter or that our prayers are taken up to the alter by heavenly saints or something like that. I'll skim through Revelations when I get home. God Bless. |
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| LorenDP, You did a much better job of articulating what I was trying to say : ) You must have posted while I was typing. God Bless. |
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Joshua, Loren hit the scripture from Revelation about the saints interceding for us.
Clearly our salvation is a balance of faith and works. Faith that Christ paid the price so we have been redeemed from the curse of the law, and works through the taking up of our cross daily. Once again, I contend that we all believe many of the same things. We simply use our own little jargon and get caught up in our words. Clearly what we want is a personal relationship with Christ. One that is vibrant and where "He knows us". Relationships take a lot of work. I certainly don't intend on being one where He says "be gone, for I never knew you". To do so requires a walking out of our salvation daily, leaning on Him, trusting that His mercy endureth forever, and knowing that we are not alone. Selah. |
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Cheryl |
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April 17, 2008 at 12:43pm |
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Excellent point Loren!
Yes, I was mentioning the 'kisses by the Pope as a means of Salvation' is that still practiced?
Voice, great dialogue, I stand with your statement above. |
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Holly |
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April 17, 2008 at 8:06pm |
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I just happened upon this blog, and I am sad to see this subject going on again. I won't be popular when I say that the Bible is very, very very clear that works does NOT have to do with salvation. So many times the Bible says outright that salvation has nothing to do with our works, as in Ephesians 2:8 and 9-- For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that NOT of YOURSELVES; it is a GIFT of God; NOT of WORKS, lest any man should boast. (Capitals for clarity, not that I am yelling.) Yes, the Bible makes it clear that as Christians we will do good works out of a heart that is changed by God. The Bible does say that faith without works is dead in James 2:17. James 2:18 says, "Show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works." I don't have a problem understanding how these two passages work together. Works have nothing to do with salvation, but if we are truly saved, we are changed, and cannot help but want to please Him. If you have no desire to do anything for Him, then you are probably not saved. Works cannot be part of salvation, or all of the verses that say "not of works" would be lies. I don't mean to be disagreeable, but this is such an important issue! I just have to comment when I see it. |
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Odd. You state that you are sad to see this subject going again, but you go out of your way to state your opinion. And I do think works is an important way to perfect one's salvation experience. But don't take my word for it, read the Gospels:
19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
10:21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
18:22 And when Jesus heard it, he said unto him, One thing thou lackest yet: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. The passage crosses three very different Gospel writers. Must be pretty important, huh? |
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Kathy |
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April 18, 2008 at 4:20am |
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| Excellent discussion, Voice! It is so refreshing to see Christian brothers and sisters discussing their different beliefs and practices without attacks and accusations! |
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MD & Holly, there are somethings that we will discuss until we are all worshiping at the throne. I think it is good to have the dialog. As I have stated several times here, I do believe that we don't understand each other (in many cases) because we don't hear the words that we use. Even Nicodemus had a problem with the words used...must I enter into my mother's womb again? Jargon. Even an issue in the time our Lord walked on the earth.
Don't get me wrong, there are distinct differences (or there would have never been a reformation). We might solve those differences, but people far greater than me have tried and failed. Perhaps the best course of action is to learn where we agree, understand where we disagree, and be determined to walk together. I may only be one finger in the Body, but without the opposing thumb, I am very limited in what I contribute to the Body. |
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| "They call Peter their first pope when it is clear he had not been to Rome."
Where do you think he was martyred at? Hoboken?
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| Also, note that in his first epistle, Peter tells his readers that he is writing from "Babylon" (1 Pet. 5:13), which was a first-century code word for the city of pagan Rome. |
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Cheryl |
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April 18, 2008 at 10:56am |
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| In love and wisdom I also agree with Kathy's statement about the dialog functioning in a way that does not attack or accuse. As anyone knows, strong statements can hurt, and seem judgemental and abusive. Operating throught the Fruit of the Spirit glorifies God, fostering that love as we convey our understanding and interpretation of God's Word is exciting! |
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Speaking of Questions for Catholics, does anyone know what happened to our friend ali? I've messaged her a couple of times in the past to see how she is doing and haven't heard back from her. I hope that she is okay... Wow Dennis are you filled with hate! Did you come up with all that stuff on your own or did you Google, Copy, then Paste? Sorry for my sarcasm, but you come off as someone who has been brought up in a stark anti-Catholic home. What denomination are you again? Just curious. I'd love to hear where it is you think we (by we, I mean Christians) got the Bible. It couldn't have been councils of the Catholic Cult Church who declared which books are inspired Scripture and which are not. Enlighten me please (start by going to G-O-O-G -- I digress). I still love ya man and Rock-on Randy Stonehill!
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| Oh! I just thought of another question for Dennis. What is your view of the Greek Orthodox Church? Are they just another cult and not Christian either? Do you have a problem with our Greek Orthodox brothers and sisters too? or just Catholics? I have friends who are of the Orthodox tradition and I have a lot of respect for the Orthodox faith. Just something that came to mind and thought I'd ask. God Bless. |
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| I think the whole point in the Bible references, malleus,, were to say that as Christians saved by Him we need to BE acting like Christ, that is, do good works to SHOW your faith, not RECEIVE fatith through them. Because An Atheist could be one of the best people on the planet, going out of his or her way to help people, but still can't get to Heaven. |
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| without believing in Christ, that is. |
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Holly |
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April 18, 2008 at 3:47pm |
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Malleus,
One more thing and then I promise I am done.
I'm going to quote more of this passage so that we can get it in context...
Mark 10:15 and on... Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.... And when he was gone forth in to the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked Him, Good Master, what shall I do, that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto Him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. [Jesus goes on to say how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God] And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
This whole thing began with Jesus saying that we have to receive the kingdom of God as a little child. When the rich man came to Him, asking Him how to have eternal life, Jesus knew what was in his heart. He started naming the commandments knowing that this man thought he could work his way to heaven. In essence, He was baiting him. (Obviously Jesus knows that we are not capable of keeping all the commandments perfectly.) The man replied that all of these he had observed from his youth. (Of course he hadn't really) Anyway, Jesus knew just what to say next to get His point across. He told him to give away all that he had, knowing full well what was in his heart. Jesus was basically saying that we cannot be perfect. We cannot work our way to heaven. His disciples realized this and asked, "Who then can be saved?" As if to say, no one can! And Jesus answers, "With men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
This was not a case of Jesus saying, "sell all that you have and give to the poor and be saved." If that were the case, then surely everyone on here would be lost. Jesus was trying to make a point to the rich man that he was thinking all wrong about how to get to heaven, and he really loved his riches more than God. He began by saying we need to become like little children and accept Him by faith.
Malleus, the Bible never once says to do works and that will help to save you. It does say clearly that works do not save you. It actually uses those words. You can't marry the two thoughts of "works do not save you" and "works help to save you." They do not go together. I challenge you to do an open-minded study on this subject,and find all the places in the Word where it says that works have nothing to do with salvation. It is such a freeing thought that I can do nothing to save myself, but Christ did it all as a free gift for me! It makes me want to live for Him even more, since He gave His all for me. It is my joy and honor to live for Him! |
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I am sorry Holly, but I disagree with you. You state that "Jesus was basically saying that we cannot be perfect." Yet, that is not what Christ himself states. He says, If thou wouldest be perfect.... So was Christ a liar? Or did he mean what he said? I prefer to think the latter and not the former. He was. Should people give of themselves to others? Help those in need. And in this sense "be like Christ" . You don't think that we can do that? It makes our salvation manifest. |
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As Catholics we believe that works are evidence of true faith, but that is not the only role they play. Works also play a role in our final justification. If we take Paul’s statements about Abraham being justified by faith in Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3–4 and put them together with James’s statement about Abraham being justified by his work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21, Catholics may rightly conclude that salvation is a process with many points of justification along the path to heaven.
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| I don’t see that the pursuit of holiness in any way takes our trust away from Christ and puts it in ourselves. It seems to me that Hebrews makes it very clear that without holiness "no one will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14). Why would the author say this? Because God is holy and, if we’re going to live with God forever, we too must be holy. So our entire life should be a pursuit of the holiness that Christ gained for us by his death on the cross. God desires to put this holiness within us, or as Hebrews 12:10 says, "that we may share his holiness." That is the ultimate rationale behind the Catholic view of salvation: to share in the holiness of God. Nothing less will save us! |
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And finally a papal joke:
The Pope vs. Moishe
About a century or two ago, the Pope challenged the Jewish community of Rome to a debate.
The Jews looked around for a champion who could defend their faith, but no one wanted to volunteer. It was too risky. So they finally picked an old man named Moishe who spent his life sweeping up after people to represent them. Being old and poor, he had less to lose, so he agreed. He asked only for one addition to the rules of debate. Not being used to saying very much, he asked that neither side be allowed to talk. The Pope agreed.The day of the great debate came. Moishe and the Pope sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Moishe looked back at him and raised one finger. The Pope waved his fingers in a circle around his head. Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat. The Pope pulled out a wafer and a glass of wine. Moishe pulled out an apple. The Pope stood up and said, "I give up. This man is too good. The Jews win."
An hour later, the cardinals were all around the Pope asking him what happened. The Pope said, "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger, to remind me that there was still one God common to both our religions. Then I waved my finger around me to show him, that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground, showing that God was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and the wafer to show that God absolves us from our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?"
Meanwhile, the Jewish community had crowded around Moishe, amazed that this old, almost feeble-minded man had done what all their scholars had insisted was impossible. "What happened?" they asked.
"Well," said Moishe, "first he said to me that the Jews had three days to get out of here. I told him that not one of us was leaving. Then he told me that this whole city would be cleared of Jews. I let him know that we were staying right here."
"And then?" asked a woman.
"I don't know," said Moishe. "He took out his lunch and I took out mine." |
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And there MD is the crux of this discussion....language.... |
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Kathy |
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April 19, 2008 at 2:57am |
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| lol - funny joke, Malleus, and as Dennis says, there's something to be learned from it! |
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Grant |
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April 19, 2008 at 5:43am |
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Hey dude! Did you know that there are also Protestant rosaries? There are Anglican Rosaries and even Lutheran Rosaries. Take a look at http://www.cathedralrosaries.com/ for example. First time I heard of this was a Quaker friend of mine said he used a Protestant rosary as a prayer bead. So what are prayer beads then? It is simply a bunch of knots on a necklace that remind us of things to pray about. It might be the 7 points in the so-called Lord's Prayer, or a personal list of things and people to pray for each day. There are big knots and small knots. Some prayer beads used flowers or jewelry instead of knots, but the idea is essentially the same. No, you don't have to do hail Mary's so many times between knots, but you can certainly be creative and use truly biblical ideas or even your own. |
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Grant, yes, I have heard of the prayer beads...not sure I would call them Rosaries, though, since the Catholic Rosary has a specific meaning attached to it...still, there is a lot of similarity, isn't there?
MD, thanks for your discussions here brother. I have to totally agree with Dennis' and Kathy's comment.
I am glad others see this discussion as valuable, too. We all have to walk together through this thing we call history, so it only makes sense to try to understand where we all find our foundations. Part of the joy of the walk is the different things we discover along the way... |
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| Well the Catholic rosary is not specifically tied to Marian devotion, but like the Protestant prayer beads above are a great aid in prayer. I myself have several rosaries, but quite frequently use them to say the Jesus Prayer or the Psalms. |
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