Pastor Elam
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||April 21, 2008 at 4:20pm|email it|278 reads
 

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Trukki
April 21, 2008 at 8:49pm
Very insightful, I look forward to more. Thanks,Brian
Grant
April 21, 2008 at 9:19pm
14:23 And before the LORD your God, in the place which he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herd and flock; that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 14:24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to bring the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 14:25 then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses, 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Now, when discussing a topic, it is important to consider all the principles involved. Israel actually had three distinct tithes. In the festival tithe, the example is to turn it into money. This principle can apply to any tithe, so to say that it only applies to agricultural produce is too narrow. Besides, Israel was an agricultural society whose "currency" was often produce. We become like Pharisees when we try to find loopholes in a law, rather than principles.

Certainly, Israel's tithe was on the net (after expenses) and not on the gross. What the tax department defines as tax deductible is unjust and discriminates against the poor. OT tithing laws defined ANY cost in incurring an income as "deductible" so to speak. So a wage earner could (in principle) deduct clothing and transport costs to and from work, etc. from a tithe.

Now the real question is whether or not Israel's tithe applies to the Church. To claim that Jesus did not tithe is to make an argument from silence. The NT is silent on that topic. However, there is NO NT command for Christians to tithe. Jesus did tell a Pharisee under the OT law, that HE ought to tithe (Mat 23:23), but neither he nor the disciples made any such command for the Church.

MoneyThe closest thing to any tithing instruction for the Church is in Hebrews 7 and that is rather vague. It certainly does drop a rather big hint that the tithing law is now changed to the priesthood of Jesus Christ, but it stops right there. The NT is not about laws or legalistic approaches to life, but about principles and love. Certainly, if the Christian Church is not well supported financially, the Gospel message, the most important news on the planet, will be hindered, and certainly materialistic Christians are the first to want an excuse not to tithe.

Jennifer
April 21, 2008 at 9:41pm
Okay, I have a question for yall. My husband and I argue about this concept. He says that we don't have to tithe if we don't have the money. I say we should tithe before anything else comes out because if you bless job for the ability to work, he will continue to bless you to be able to work. So, was he right all this time?
Pastor Elam
April 21, 2008 at 10:12pm
Interesting View,
But I stand on the corner and preach the gospel and it didn't cost
anything but time. The Apostles went everywhere and preached
the Gospel to all of the known world then,They did without microphones
P.A systems and T.B.N. Today a couple that has been having hard
times and the Husband has been sick and unable to work The ministry
 paid their light bill so it would not be cut off, we also helped her find a better
paying job though resources we set up though a christian network.My
Wife and I give sometimes 400-600 a month I don't need an excuse not
to tithe. Tithing is not a Christian doctrine, Giving is and I love to give I just
think it is wrong to tell people that if they don't pay 10% they will be cursed.
I also don't like it when the tithe is used to fund the lifestyles of materialistic
preachers. I also think you need to read verse 24 slower. 

And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to bring the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 14:25 then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses, 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

It would be easier to carry the price of a sheep (Converted into money) and then when they got
to the place the Lord choose to buy another sheep ,oxen or offering to give unto the lord.some
people traveled for days or miles So God allowed this type of exchange policy if you will.
Pastor Elam
April 21, 2008 at 10:29pm
Jennifer,

I support giving as a freewill-offering and a faith response

from the heart motivated by love and the Holy Spirit. However, I am

equally convinced that preaching a mandatory ten percent (so-called tithe) of

gross income, regardless of circumstances, is unscriptural and causes more harm

than good to the body of Christ. Many churches teach that tithing is mandatory and Christians must give ten per cent of their gross income to the church. Others teach that principles of New Covenant giving do not include a compulsory giving of ten per cent of gross income. Those who teach tithing often scorn those who disagree with them as either not believing the Bible or else not being mature Christians.  Positions of leadership such as pastor, deacon, and Sunday School teacher are often denied to those who do not teach tithing, even though they may be well-qualified and excel as soul-winners. I am not telling you not to give or tithe If you have it to give and don't I believe that is a sin. but if you are stuggling between
feeding you family and keeping you lights on feed your family and keep your lights on God will not curse you foe being a respnsible person. God does not need your money The ministry does and I only hope it's need and not greed. sorry I have
to keep it real.

Grant
April 21, 2008 at 10:52pm
MoolahI quite agree with Elam. The most effective tool for evangelism is not TBN's empty headed fluff or expensive air time for even a good quality preacher of the Bible, but personal evangelism. However, we must note that Paul also said that those who preach the Gospel may legitimately live from the Gospel. I certainly would not give a dime to those who preach rubbish which they falsely claim is the Gospel.

Tithing from the first tenth of our gross is not required in the Bible ANYWHERE. In fact, even in the OT it was the 10th animal that was tithed, not the first, if you want a principle on the thing. However, NOWHERE is it even mandated in the NT. It certainly is a valuable principle for supporting those who preach, whether or not we choose an exact percentage is not mandated, however.
Pastor Elam
April 22, 2008 at 5:36am
11:7 Did I commit a sin in abasing myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God's gospel without cost to you? 11:8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you. 11:9 And when I was with you and was in want, I did not burden any one, for my needs were supplied by the brethren who came from Macedo'nia. So I refrained and will refrain from burdening you in any way. 11:10As the truth of Christ is in me, this boast of mine shall not be silenced in the regions of Acha'ia. 11:11 And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 11:12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

I understand what Paul was saying about those who preach the gospel should live from
the gospel. I don't think Paul knew that Men would become greedy and only preach for
the money and about the money so they can live in better than average houses. Drive
better than average cars.Wear better than average clothes. In the scripture above Paul
did it for nothing. History tells us that he made tents(That a Job). Besides We are all
ministers of reconciliation the gospel has never been assigned to a special class or
group of professional preachers. No we are all responsible for spreading the good news
God did not ordain special classes of preachers, Man did that.

Evangelist Keith Wilson
April 22, 2008 at 10:29am
Pastor I agree with this stance as well!
Jerry
April 22, 2008 at 12:48pm

Pastor and Evangelist,

I have just never felt in my heart a reason to teach this where I pastor. I cannot say I am highly educated in the scripture because I am not. This matter requires our diligent study and examination. So many have the mindset that they must pay tithes to belong to a church. They stay away from the church because they do not have money to give. Where does this mindset come from?

Pastor Elam
April 22, 2008 at 1:50pm

Jerry,
Did you know that some Pastors now have everybody that pay tithes to stand
This is a guilt trip on everybody who is not standing. Then he prays for the ones
standing that God would bless them for being obedient to his commandment to
tithe.Some people are poor or out of work and to have to go to a fellowship and
be made to fill bad about not being able to give is enough to make folks stay
home.I have seen it with my own eyes. that is a twisting of the arm tactic if I
have ever seen one.

blessedmary
April 24, 2008 at 10:01am
Tithing is not the issue here .  It's the misuse of tithes in the churches.  Many christians do not study the bible, but easily accept things being done in the churches. The Spirit of God will let you know when something is not right. You see many  Christians are not being led by the Spirit  of but  are still operating by their  (5 ) senses. This is called a carnal person. When you have confessed Jesus as Lord over your life buts still operating by the natural man which is flesh. I for one am not easily strayed by what man says. I'm going to operate by what the bible says and
trust God and wait for an answer. Amen 
Be Blessed
Blessedmary
nicelady2b
May 07, 2008 at 7:21am
Grace and Peace Bro and sisters in Christ:

As long as I have been saved, this was always a topic of discussion in the Body of Christ. Whatever our views are or whatever we believe most of us always have scriptures to back it up. What saddens me the most is, because we have drawn or come to a decision based on what we've found in scriptures, we've now shut or closed our minds to anything else that does not agree to what we believe. We put our selves in a position were we are pushing what we believe is correct on to another. Some say tithing is not scriptural, some say it is, based on the individuals own study and research. What I'm saying is, always keep an open mind, and continue to be vigilant by the leading of the Holy Spirit in searching the scriptures for the truth: and when the Lord reveals to you the correct principal, which was not what you believe, I pray that you will come forth and admit that, what you thought was correct was incorrect, and then share what was revealed to you by the Spirit of God. I just pray that whatever we believe we will keep an open mind and continue to press on in finding the truth.

My church believes and teaches the principal of tithing and giving: so I tithes. and not only that, this is where the Lord sent me to fellowship and worship. Because I know without a shadow of a doubt that this is where i belong, I will obey those that has the rule and authority over me.

I personally tithes because in addition to what I was taught, tithing helps me financially. When I tithes every thing works out financially, when i dont nothing works. I have the testimonies to tell!

tithing to me is a training tool, its a disciplinary tool that helps me to learn the principles of giving. Not only that, i am also learning that its not about the money, (God dont need our money) its about totally trusting and relying on God. My desire is to give more than a tenth, I want to give 100% of my increase, am i there yet no, but i will be. In addition to my tithe I also give offerings too. I Love to give to the Lord out of my needs: and not out of my abundance! Make your tithing and giving cost you something: Let your tithing or giving be a sacrifice only unto the Lord. You will be truly Blessed!

P.S - not all Pastors that believes in tithe is taking the money. Not all is buying cars, big houses, fancy clothes etc.. and even if you know of such a one, pray for them and ask God to touch there heart and lead them to true and a heart felt repentance. The true men and women of God, that were called by God, will be taken care of by God. Its bad enough that the world is already attacking the church when it comes to money, but for us to do so too on a public platform, makes us no different from the world. Its even worse!
Pastor Elam
May 08, 2008 at 1:24pm
nicelady2b wrote,
Its bad enough that the world is already attacking the church when it comes to money, but for us to do so too on a public platform, makes us no different from the world. Its even worse!

I thank you for your comments and for the heart you have towards Men and Women of God.

I must also say that we have a more sure word of prophecy That is the word of God which tells us
as Christians how to handle things that are wrong when it comes to church issues and things
that makes the entire body of Christ look bad.

Things that are being done in the churches today are not being done in secret but in the open
for all the world to see but then when it is time to rebuke we want that done in secret so that
the world does not see our dirty laundry. If men of God are not ashamed to do things in the open
then they should be rebuked in the open, That goes for me or anyone who calls themselves a
child of God.The world is watching and we need to let them know that the Church has order and
a structure and discipline when things are wrong. If we don't show that then mankind will continue
to look down on the Church of Jesus Christ as a big Joke with people who have no respect or
reverence for the God they serve.

As far as tithing goes I am not saying it is a sin if you choose to continue to pay them. I was
giving information to dispel the lie that if you don't pay them you are cursed, If it is working for you then by all means don't let me stop you from getting your blessing. I just know to many people who paid tithes faithfully, religiously and died broke and living in poverty. To the point
where we had to stop the funeral to take up and offering because she paid her tithes but didn't
buy an insurance policy. This mind set comes from people who teach things so they can get
you're money. ( I will use the bible to prove my point)
2:1 But there were false prophets among the people, as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly put forward wrong teachings for your destruction, even turning away from the Lord who gave himself for them; whose destruction will come quickly, and they themselves will be the cause of it. 2:2 And a great number will go with them in their evil ways, through whom the true way will have a bad name. 2:3 And in their desire for profit they will come to you with words of deceit, like traders doing business in souls: whose punishment has been ready for a long time and their destruction is watching for them.

The bible says this would be going on. What is a True man or Woman of God to do? Again the
bible answers the Question
58:1 Make a loud cry, do not be quiet, let your voice be sounding like a horn, and make clear to my people their evil doings, and to the family of Jacob their sins.

That is an Old Testament scripture and the New Testament reads:
4:1 I give you orders, before God and Christ Jesus, who will be the judge of the living and the dead, and by his revelation and his kingdom; 4:2 Be preaching the word at all times, in every place; make protests, say sharp words, give comfort, with long waiting and teaching; 4:3 For the time will come when they will not take the true teaching; but, moved by their desires, they will get for themselves a great number of teachers for the pleasure of hearing them; 4:4 And shutting their ears to what is true, will be turned away to belief in foolish stories. 4:5 But be self-controlled in all things, do without comfort, go on preaching the good news, completing the work which has been given you to do.

Finally Jesus was lead BY THE SPIRIT into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil when he
was at his weakest is when the devil attacked. Jesus did not go into spiritual warfare, he did
not set the atmosphere with a song, He did not call forth the praise dancers or the anointed
step team. Jesus said" IT IS WRITTEN" he went to the word of God to defeat the enemy of God
and it is the only thing that will work today. All this new stuff that just came up in the last10-15
years is nothing more than everybody else is doing it and if you are going to be main stream in
ministry you had better do what everybody else is doing.You would almost think we invented
something new, But Satan was Lucifer and he was the praise and worship leader in heaven. He
knows what will move God he has been in that position before. So he don't mind you praising
God as long as the praise is not real or is something he knows God will not except.

I have no problem with admitting if I am wrong about anything, I have studied the matter and I see
why Our people are so messed up because of a lack of knowledge. I believe the word says we
are to worship the Lord In SPIRIT and IN TRUTH be blessed!!!
MarJay HizWay
June 10, 2008 at 4:33am
Praise the Lord Pastor Elam...You are right on the money (smile) with this tithing issue.  Continue to teach the TRUTH!

Sister Margie
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