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| Evangelicals in crisis |
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Christine Wicker has a new book out on the current crisis in the evangelical church. It is called The Fall of the Evangelical Nation. I haven't read it yet, but I will. It makes some very bold statements which, if true, show us that our mission field is right here in our back yards. You can read more about it by clicking here or read Helen Mildenhall's interview with her by clicking here. (Those of you who follow my blog know I read Helen's blog regularly and encourage you to do so, as well.) I was amazed at Christine's answer to Helen's question "Are you an evangelical?" If that answer doesn't make you think, you are missing the whole point of the topic.
Once again, my point is that we have a mission field right here within our church walls. I am interested to know what others think - especially those who are pastors.
A couple of things Christine states:
1. The most devout, hard working and generous members of the biggest evangelical churches in the country are the most dissatisfied and ready to bolt. These aren’t my findings. They’re Willow Creek’s. And the finding holds across congregations. And they could leave. Every day their spiritual options increase, partly because of the Internet.
Willow Creek plans to help these Christians do more self-study and take more responsibility for their own growth in hopes of keeping them involved. But can you grow mature spirituality with the so-called Bible-based literalism that such churches employ? Studies of spiritual, moral and ethical growth say no. So what’s Willow Creek going to do?
The first thing they’ve done is to make a stunning move. Willow Creek is facing the problem head on and in public.
These leaders are smart men with a lot at stake. Because they use a business model to grow their church and maintain it, they aren’t nearly as opposed to innovation as more traditional churches might be.
2. Young people leave evangelical ranks in such huge numbers when they become adults that being saved has become little more than another teenage phase. (Unless, of course, the Southern Baptists are right about “once saved, always saved,” and then they’ll go to heaven no matter what they do or come to believe later, while everyone else goes to hell.)
There’s reason to believe that fewer of these young people are going to return when they marry and have children than in the past, but even if they do return, they’ll come back 10 to 20 years later than they did in previous generations because they’re marrying and having children so much later. That’s 10-20 years of volunteers and offerings that the evangelical church will have to limp along without. |
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| My brother, what she says is true. It is not that people don't beleive in God and want to go to church, but people by in large do not see it as relevant to their lives. This is a huge disconnect. We the church have failed to teach people the How to's and the whys. If you will notice our people get very little Christian education. Most churches have elimnated Sunday School, Bible Studies, they meet once a week on a Sunday Morning and have a duet, sermonette, and a cigarette and go home. I am not going to take over your blog here, but we as evangelicals have failed to communicate the reality of the gospel while we have done well in communicating the gospel. |
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Dan |
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May 05, 2008 at 1:10am |
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My wife went ti a womens coference a couple of weeks ago and brought home a book titled "Dear Church, Letters from a disillusioned generation" by Sarah Cunningham. It addresses these same issues. I have not read the complete book yet but it would be a interesting read for anyone who is struggling in their local church.
Dan Williams
Rom 8:1 Therefore, Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus |
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| I'll respond more as I think about this, but, at first glance I would question her ability to look objectively. She, in her won explanation, is talking about how to make the faith OK for people who are nominal in thier faith. Not really what the Church Fathers had in mind, let alone how I understand scripture to reflect the Christian life. And what in the world, probably a proper Freudian slip,does she mean in saying a Bible based model doesn't work? Did I msread her, or is she just really off the wall? |
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Kathy |
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May 05, 2008 at 8:04am |
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With the disclaimer that I cannot fully critique what I have not read, I will say that the statements you have lifted here seem quite accurate to my observations and readings. The evangelical church does seem to be in trouble, and losing relevancy for the younger generations. Our youth are leaving the church earlier and, as the author states, are less likely to return. Why? Two reasons I think.
First, they are being baby-sat and entertained in the church as children and youth, and are getting little of substance to prepare them for the questions that are sure to come during their teen years. And second, I believe much of it is due to the fundamentalist movement whose rigid interpretation of Scripture is easily dismissed by those who question and think critically. See more of my thoughts on this here: God Didn't Write the Bible.
Interesting post, Voice! |
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Hey Voice, thanks for posting this. This past Sunday, as a So. Baptist, I mentioned the doctrine of 'Once saved always Saved,' and how it has received a lot of abuses. But really, it's a poor title for the doctrine it teaches, a much more accurate title would be 'Perseverance of the Saints.'
That goes to say that when a person is truly born-again by the life-transforming power of the Holy Spirit, that person cannot lose their salvation. God is the one who justifies, they no longer face any condemnation (Rom 8:1).
You know, it's totally true that evangelicals are losing their young to the world. The studies of Barna and Lifeway show that we're losing 80-88% of our young ones by the second year of college. We've been doing a study with our youth's parents that addressess this issue. There's a pastor who I think has really nailed the problem on the head. His name is Vodie Baucham, and he's written a book entitled Family Driven Faith.
The main points of the book he is communicating to parents is that the Discipleship of children belongs primarily in the home, and not the church (Deut 6:4-9). God commands us as parents to disciple our children in the home, and we as American parents are not doing this. Instead we leave it up to the ministers at church who only have two-four hrs a week, while the kids are in a secular, humanistic training camp 40 hrs a week that denies the very existence of God, and teaches our kids to embrace worldly, licentious philosophies that undermine key Biblical truths!
And we expect our chldren to come out adhereing to a life of faith? You've got to be crazy! How much does God tell us to talk with our children about the things of God/faith? All day, every day, when you rise up in the morning, walking along the path, when you lie down at night, writing it on the doorposts of your home, making your home a constant visible reminder that we are set apart people, not of this world.
I think if parents begin to take the Bible seriously, start having devotions and family worship every day, and making the child's (and the parent's) no. 1 goal in the life to be a faithful follower of Jesus Christ (and not a worldly success),then we might not lose so many of our young people. But it's got to start in the family! God ordained and designed the famiily to be the primary unit to evangelize and disciple the faith to the nations. And now we see why God comanded His people to be fruitful and reproduce, so that God fearing peoples would fill the earth and be raising their kids with the awareness of God's wonderful truths. |
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Just to add my 2 bits......
I love Pastor Chris' comments. Children need to be trained in the ways of the Lord, in the home, full time. The Christian parents of this nation surrender their children to government schools starting at age 5 (right?) and secular humanist discipleship begins, 8 (or so) hours a day, 5 days a week, throughout the rest of their childhood, into young adulthood. In two-parent working families (the majority, right?), mom and dad usually come home in the evening too exhausted to teach/instruct anything and are also too busy playing catch up with cleaning and chores to really spend any time instructing, having family worship/devotion, Christian discipleship, etc.
My brothers and I went to govt (public) schools, and all three of us completely lost our faith by the time we were teens. The kids we hung out with lost theirs as well....only a few of us have come back. Neither of my brothers has, unfortunately. This is the problem as I see it, and have lived it. |
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| Great discussion! I especially appreciate Pastor Chris' comments about parental responsibility. If God is relevant to our children the church/Bride will also be relevant to our children. For us, our church family is a safe harbor and an extension of what we have at home. Relationship -- with God, our family, and our fellow believers -- is what makes it relevant to us. |
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awesome discussion! Who says u cant teach an ole dog new tricks?
all kidding aside, i also like what Pastor Chris said and Mike.
I know from past I was made to go to church, my parents went becasue they wanted us to go.
It wasnt very pleasant as i recall. dad was alwasy angry as it was his only day off.
mom was tired from teaching all week and needed to do school work.
My oldest brother went to college and studyed Religion, he works for the state and hasnt been back to church since. My other brother did as my parents did and no longer goes to church.
( nor do either practice any kind belief in thier life)
ME I stayed for many years, confussed, lost and had no direction.
I am grateful I found my way back! Did I find in time for my kids, no......
My point is I see families who practice it in the home, not only in church, usually have children who are still in church and have a God centered life.
I know there is Hope for my sons, as I live it, today. My one son isnt a reg at church but he at least goes here and there.
So I do belive it is the parents responsibility. |
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Glenn |
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May 05, 2008 at 12:58pm |
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Hey voice thanks for bringing up this subject. I think that a lot of Evangelical churches are searching for something that will help them not only keep their young in the fold, but bring in those who have been raised in the public schools. I know that our church is making an effort to appeal to young adults in their twenties. I think there is a general desire to reach that age group and those young people who are starting to drift from the fold and become relavent in their lives. I often wonder if changing the format and delivery is the real answer.
It seems to me the Word is the only way to reach a heart. God will bless the use of His Word as it is lived out in our lives. If our actions both in our families, in our church family and in our community at large shine with God's love and His Word then people around us will see Him in our lives. This is the only real answer to the problem.
I do agree with Pastor Chris and Mike above, that teaching our families and reaching our young people is first a foremost the parent's responsibility.
Thanks again Voice for bringing up these issues.
peace |
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Wow, I go away for a day and come back to many comments. Thanks to all who commented, and I hope more will join. While I totally agree that discipleship begins in the family, let's face it, over 50% of our youth come from broken homes and when you throw in those who have both parents working, I suspect the number is up over 85%...maybe 88%...ummm...that is the percentage of youth who are leaving the church. So, yes, I agree that is a significant issue.
However, that isn't the crux of the issue here. The issue here is beyond the teen years into the 20 somethings and 30 somethings. I haven't read Christine's book yet, but based on what I have read on Helen's blog, the concern comes from the church not growing with the people (my words, not hers).
Let me put my twist on it...I think the 50 somethings who started many of the evangelical churches are still hanging on to them. Their leadership styles (nothing about the doctrine) have become irrelevant to the 20 and 30 somethings. So the younger generation feels like they need to move on. How many 50 year olds who have been leading a church can step aside and say they are not capable to lead it any more? Very few, if any at all. Therein, IMHO, lies the challenge with the evangelical churches as a whole. They have come of age and without leadership change, they will die.
Will that happen to all of them? Certainly not. Will it happen to most? Let's hope not.
Final point I will add right now is what Kathy brought up. People need to be taught to be critical thinkers and not just followers. If we don't teach then to think critically, then they will follow any doctrine set before them as long as it is charismatically presented. |
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Glenn |
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May 06, 2008 at 7:27am |
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"If we don't teach then to think critically, then they will follow any doctrine set before them as long as it is charismatically presented."
I agree with your comment above. Without people who think critically and take a stand on what the Spirit is speaking to them most people will follow like sheep. We need people who are listening to the Holy Spirit, and filtering the directions of their leaders through the Word and the Spirit if we want to continue to be relavent in a hurting world. |
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| There is a definite changing of the guard and with that there needs to be a paradiem shift. We can't keep doing things like we always have done them especially if they are not working. The tension is what will work?, and what is Biblical yet still relevant? |
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| BT, even another way of looking at it...even the things that have been working, it is time to build on them and add to that foundation. I have long thought the next move we see wil be cross-generational impacting every generation alive. |
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| yes sir, and we need to go to a 24 hour ministry |
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Theres a great thread going on here. Many things look to be changing in the church. A lot of it may be the Lord preparing his bride ( we can hope). But a lot of this has been happening for quiet a long time. John 13:34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35" By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
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| ...changing us from glory to glory... |
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| Hey Brother! I just finished reading the blog. Hummm….. interesting.. Couple thoughts. It appears that the organized evangelical church is taking a little bit more of a smack than they should. There are many things that need correction in the local church and Willow Creek is taking honorable steps to repair some of those breakdowns.I completely agree with the motive change. We should not have church for the sake of numbers but for HIS name sake. If we gravitate toward that motive, most of our ministries will flow from there and be more productive. The real problem. Family Breakdown. I have seen so many Pastors and Youth Pastors take on criticism for the evangelical degradation. I believe much is not warranted.I have seen Parents/Guardians drop off their youngsters at the Christian schools and youth groups and just expect that “everything is gonna be alright.” As parents and grandparents of children we have got to partner with those who are in ministry. The HOME family values have shifted in the last 10 greatly. It appears to be an insurmountable job to just repair what once was at home in the evangelical living rooms. Here are some solutions that I believe with fix much of the problems we are experience. It’s simple and to the point. Family dinners together at least 4 to 5 times a week.Family bible studies and devotions.Bedtime prayers. Parents, get involved in Jr. Church and youth group activities. (not just soccer, school band and karate) With ALL that said: The main focus must be as I stated earlier, pure motivation. Honor God and pure love for our family. If we make all those suggestions our main goal, we’ve only enhanced religion instead of relationship. Let’s role up our sleeves and be responsible at church and home. Pastor Shawn |
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Thanks Pastor Shawn. I appreciate the insight. I have to totally agree with you on the item of Pastors and Youth Pastors taking a lot of the criticism not being warranted. It does all start with us parents and it IS our responsibility to raise our kids to know the Lord....not just know OF Him, but to truly KNOW Him.
Thanks for your comments. |
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