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| Are We Predestined? |
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8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Even though we have ‘free will’ are we still predestined to follow the path God has set before us? We make choices with what the Lord sets before us. Sometimes our choices may not be His choices, yet many times He uses our choices for His benefit. Does that mean we are following His predestined path for us? |
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| To add a comment to "Are We Predestined?" |
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| May 08, 2008 |
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First you have to understand what is meant by "predestinate" in this passage. Somewhat summarized and somewhat quoted from a commentary on this passage at Biblegateway.com: "God had us designed for his glory and happiness. But evil took hold of us and the whole human race deserved destruction, but God determined to recover us. He predestinated that we should be conformed to the image of his Son. In this life we are in part renewed and walk in his steps." Predestined from prae which means before + destinare which means to determine. So Predestinate means to determine beforehand. Determine from de + terminare/terminus means to limit, to decide by authoritive decision; to direct, to affect, or influence strongly. So God's predestination for us is to be renewed and to walk in his Son's steps. He has decided to limit us and direct or influence us to be renewed and to follow him. But that doesn't mean that everyone whom he called is justified and will be glorified. It's a two way street. We have to respond back to him. Therefore, we have a choice to follow his predestined path or not to be renewed. Choice from kausjan to examine, kiusan to choose means an act or an alternative. He uses our choices to influence us. So, no that does not mean we are following his predestined path. If everyone were following his predestined path, then ALL would be renewed and glorified. |
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| May 08, 2008 |
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This is an age old question. And discussion is what I was interested in.
Thanks MT for contributing. |
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| May 08, 2008 |
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Hey, no problem. I know there are groups that believe that we have no choice, and that the life we live was determined and we can not make a change to it. I believe that is incorrect by the meaning of predestined. Anyone can predestinate. You need to know what's being predestined. What hung me up on this scripture passage is: "For those whom he foreknew". "For those" makes me think that there are some he did not know beforehand. What? |
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| May 08, 2008 |
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Hi Gretchen! Wow, what a great question! (Sorry I didn't read MT4God's answer, but she's probably right...she's really smart!) Other than her...most people want to look at that question as an either/or. We either have free will OR God established our path already and we have no choice. I believe it's actually a little of both. Of course, I hate to be wrong about anything, so I maximize my chances of being right by agreeing with ALL the answers! No, just kidding. From God's perspective, it's all written out in advance. He isn't trapped inside this time capsule like we are. He sees our future perfectly and knows what will happen. Furthermore, he works things out inside time in ways we can't even fathom (Rom 8:28). That's God's perspective! From OUR perspective, everything is a matter of choice. Or most things at least. And we can choose to follow God. When we choose not to, we must take responsibility for our choice and face the consequences. If we had no choice, could we really be punished and God be called fair and righteous? There are plenty of bible verses that support both free will and predestination. This seems like the best way to validate all of scripture while at the same time answering your question honestly. Hope I accomplished that at least. Perhaps a pastor or theologian would like to come in and fill in the gaps? |
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| May 08, 2008 |
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Reference Dictionary: Knowledge or awareness of something before its existence or occurrence;
This is something I have been in discussion with for years. We have an all-knowing God who knows even the hairs on our head. Does he also know the wrong choices we will make? And does it matter that we make wrong choices, if that is part of his pre-plan too?
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| May 09, 2008 |
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I was raised in Calvinism and am now a Methodist. I have always loved great discussion on topics such as this.
Easton's Bible Dictionary - Predestination
This word is properly used only with reference to God's plan or purpose of salvation. The Greek word rendered "predestinate" is found only in these six passages, Acts 4:28 ; Romans 8:29 Romans 8:30 ; 1 Corinthians 2:7 ; Ephesians 1:5 Ephesians 1:11 ; and in all of them it has the same meaning. They teach that the eternal, sovereign, immutable, and unconditional decree or "determinate purpose" of God governs all events.
This doctrine of predestination or election is beset with many difficulties. It belongs to the "secret things" of God. But if we take the revealed word of God as our guide, we must accept this doctrine with all its mysteriousness, and settle all our questionings in the humble, devout acknowledgment, "Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight."
These dictionary topics are from
M.G. Easton M.A., D.D., Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Third Edition,
published by Thomas Nelson, 1897. Public Domain, copy freely.
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| May 09, 2008 |
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| The Bible certainly does use the word predestined. The issue is what does that mean. God told the Israelites to choose. He also reminds us that he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved. I think that alone tells us that there is free choice, and that salvation is not only an instant, but also an incomplete process until the end. We can get all fired detailed about it, arguing about wheels within wheels of inuendo if we want. I prefer a less complicated faith. God knows what he is doing. I don't. |
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| May 16, 2008 |
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| I'm glad he knows... Glad he is there! |
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| May 16, 2008 |
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| I tend to think our destiny is planned out ... but may not go as planned because he has given us the choice to make decisions for ourselves. Otherwise we would be a 'cookie cutter' society. I feel he also uses our choices to mold us back into the direction he wants us to go ... where we are destined to go ... while still choosing Him. |
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| August 08, 2009 |
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| For me, the beginning of the passage "whom He foreknew" is the key. Since God does not operate in a timeline like we do; He is able to know the beginning and the end and probably much more we do not understand. He knows those who make a choice to follow Him from the beginning. He PREDESTINES a WAY for all who believe to grow into the fullness of Christ. Thus, all things work for good for those who love God and are called to His purposes. |
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| August 09, 2009 |
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| Doug ... I believe that also. He knows what decision we are going to make before we do. And He will use that decision for His benefit. |
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| October 24, 2009 |
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I think that Doug and Gretchen are on the right track here. I tend to look at it more from the angle of "interference." First, we must look beyond this scripture to encompass the message of Christ... which was for the purpose of bringing "eternal life," or more properly translated, "life to the full" to ALL of creation. Jesus prayed "Your kingdom come ON EARTH..." This passage, if anything, justifies the priesthood of all believers. It outlines Paul's view of how each person in creation is called by God to a purpose. So, that for me answers the "those whom he foreknew" question... the answer is he foreknew "all" ...all of his creation... not just a few elect, etc. So, in my mind, the rest of the passage outlines how God (operating outside of our space and time) is aware of all possible contingencies and has pre-determined (that it is possible for) "all" to be called, justified, and glorified. I don't see, however, anywhere where that justifies a hard-liner theology that would dictate that somehow because some few elect are called, they cannot resist God, nor do they have any choice... Paul does not once say that we are unwilling slaves to the oppressive will of God. If Jesus came to bring freedom, then a belief of "elect servitude" does not fit very well. Paul does say that when we (choose to) lay our lives at the feet of our King as slaves, that he will choose rather to make us partners... friends... To my knowledge, friends and partners have choices... can help determine the decisions and directions...etc. |
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