Truth is powerful. Love needs to be there aplenty too. I don't know your local congregation but I see the patterns that you describe. There is a huge amount of hypocrisy in the Church and some of that takes the form that you describe: pay up, be obedient, and shut up. I've experienced it in other parts of Christ's body that wouldn't describe themselves as "churches". If you speak out, you get blasted.

(Kristine, I do not know you, and I sense the love out of which you reply to Paul but your criticism of him strongly endorses his third point.)

I gather that on your side of "the pond", it's far more common for unquestioning obedience to be expected in christian groups. The leaders have been chosen (by whatever means) and must therefore be obeyed. No, that's not what God expects and that's the attitude that led to the Holocaust. "I was just following orders" is not a valid excuse. We need to question orders at times, even if it puts us in conflict with the powers that be and their supporters. Our integrity must remain intact.

What you describe is a typical, human situation. Political behaviour. You also acknowledge sin on your part too. The world is a mess.

Good job we're not just responsible to these human institutions. But try and treat them as family, they're probably hurting as much as you.

Kw,
  Thank you for your encouragement.  In fact, I know very well how deprived man can be because I know myself.  I will honor your right to speak your mind but I don't think it is as bad as you make it out to be.  I think it can be fixed.  And I have seen the Lord in our church and others like Kristine and I said above.

I understand "we wrestle not against flesh and blood", that the devil has a scheme to keep us in-fighting, and to keep us from going out and making disciples..

I must warn you about listening to your "inner voice".  The Bible warns that "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it?" Jer. 17:9.  And I tell you, God knows it.  He sees our hearts for what they really are.  No, all we need is our Savior, Jesus the Christ, and His Holy Spirit who will lead us into all truth.

So here is the answer.  We must force ourselves to speak to each other in love.  We must get back into the Bible so we know when someone is trying to serve us a "mixed drink of words".  And we must pray continually to keep our hearts tender toward the Lord.  And we must never, never, never give up.  Fight the fights that need fighting.

Paul Mimeault

That depends on whether it's been renewed or not. God has given (or at least offered) us a good heart; why use the stone one?

"Who has known the mind of the Lord so that he can teach him?" However, we have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor 2:16

Good Morning Dad,

Very well put!  In my opinion of course.  When someone joins a church they are looking for a family.  And what do you do in a family?  If you communicate, life is much better in the household, in the contrary, no communication brings havic, chaos, and often times someone gets hurt.  When one person in the family is hurt, the whole family feels it.  I think the same holds true for a church body and I think that you did exactly what the Lord would have wanted you to do and that is, talk to your leadership about it.  I do have a concern that I would like to point out though.  Why is it that when you brought this problem to your leadership before hand, they did nothing.  BUT now that this blog has been posted and they are scared that it will harm the church body, they are willing to do something about it?  Does it go along with your 3 point, "Keep your mouth shut"?  Are they only trying to deal with the problem now that it is public and they don't want people thinking "wrong" thoughts about their church?  This worries me.  If they are genuine in their actions then God will reveal that to you, if they are not, on the other hand, God will reveal that as well.  Let's just hope they really see a problem, and are trying to fix it.

If I went to the store and bought something for someone with their money and brought back their change, and they told me that the change was wrong.  How would I correct my error if I didn't know how to count?

I will continue to pray for you and for the church.  Don't give up Dad, and don't let people bring you down either.  Your voice is their for a reason!

Love you Dad,
Jenni

It should be obvious to readers that there are underlying issues here that I have not gone into detail about.  I believe to do so would be gossip and because of that belief I will not do so.

Please understand that I am not saying all churches or all people in leadership are operating this way.  I don't believe this is hopeless, or unfixable.  I simply mean to communicate that this is how I have felt for many years.  I have come across this kind of attitude in leadership in churches I have attended during the course of my christian life.

You know, it may be that people in churches want so much to be a success that failure is not acceptable.  This would be great if we weren't so flawed, or if the Bible was changed in drastic ways.  But we are flawed, and it is those flaws that pulled at God's heart so He made a way for all of us to be forgiven our sins.  It is that very story that the "church" ought to be living out.  It is the joy of that "good news", or gospel, lived out in us (flaws and all) that will make the world look at us and notice something different, something better, something desirable.

Jen,
  Thank you for your encouragement.  I need to say that I was referring to the churches I have come in contact with over my 35 years of christian life.  Honestly, I don't know if this blog or my conversations with leadership has had that effect or if the Holy Spirit has convicted to cause the desire to talk about some issues (I'd rather believe the latter), or if there has been a change. 

But it makes no difference because I am just supplying to the church what I am made to supply (as I believe my actions here to be righteous, Lord help me). 

And you know what Jen?  It doesn't matter if they change after hearing the truth the first time or the millionth time because God's grace is enough to carry me, them, and anyone else who has to deal with this or any part of it or any consequence of it.

It's my responsability to be who I'm supposed to be, say what I'm supposed to say, and do what I'm supposed to do.  These things may not be easy or pleasant, but that God wants me to deal with this is certain.

Paul Mimeault (Dad)

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3 “D” coming with manna from Heaven
Welcome, Rmartel.
You last visited: Today at 12:00 AM

#1 07-19-2005, 12:20 AM
Rmartel
Registered Jr. Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 236

3 “D” coming with manna from Heaven

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Fresh Revelations is coming cmmencing of July 17 2005 all over the world along with the 3 “D” as I have heard from my Brother Jesus. This goes along and is supported by Jer. CH.1 verse 10 Read it please.
Since 1948 the last wave of the Jesus by his Holy Spirit his people have been living off of this.
Now their is a wave coming along with the 3″D’ DISASTER, DESTRUCTION AND DEVASTATION , His people that he calls by name will receive this fresh manna which is MEANING AND PURPOSE IN THEIR LIVES. This is life to them! No weapon formed shall prosper as you receive this new HIDDEN MANNA. This will stand forever.His revelation that is meaning to each of his children personal life. Jer,ch.29 v11.
He had put this off since Aug 2001 but now is the time.
Believe what he tells you in your heart. Did you not accept him in your heart?
Blessed are those who have ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is speaking.
Rmartel Brother of Jesus.

Hey Paul.  I think you nailed the hammer on why alot of people do not attend church.  These rules of getting along in church seems to be "reality" to some people.  My husband being one of those.  He unfortunately tends to speak his mind, which gets him in trouble with others.  He also has difficulty in following directions or as you put it "do as he is told."  And since we are a family of five with a one source income, it is sometimes difficult to contribute financially to the church.

Having live the first six years of my life in a rural village outside of Macau, China, I see alot of similarities between a village and church.  A village is made up of many families, struggling for survival.  They help others wherever they can, whether finacially or physically.  They encourage one another.  They protect each other from harm.  They gather regularly for fellowship.  I remember all these in our village.  My family gave financially to help build a school.  Other villagers who were not able to contribute finacially, worked on their free time building the walls.  My neighbor protected me from a stray dog.  Another neighbor saved my sister from drowning.  We had a gathering every so often.  I remember gathering around a small TV set to watch a Chinese soap.

After growing up with tons of aunts, uncles, cousins, and a large number of family members, it is difficult for me to live in Bakersfield with my closest relative being over an hour away.  Our church as become a second family to me.  My home group and others in our church is such an encouragment me.  They help protect me and keep me from drowing.  They provide a friendship that is beyond description.  I love everyone of them and try my best to give them what they give me. 

We must remember that the church is not about what we get out of it, but what we can give.  Don't allow people's judgement of you to affect your heart.  We all judge.  We don't mean to.  It just happens because we are just human.  Forgiveness is the key.  Your three rules only apply if you allow it to happen.  If you forget about it . . . did it really happen?  We must remember that the church is not about what we get out of it, but what we give wherever it may be.  Also, as I have told my husband, if you what to know what is going on with your family, meet reguarly with them and don't just talk to them, listen as well.

Rmartel,
  Dude, you need to read the new testament.  Jesus must increase and I must decrease.  I am not saying that the church is not useful, or that it cannot change or that there is no good that comes from it.  On the contrary.  I am fighting for the church because I see our potential.  I'm still in it, and I believe the Lord God is still in and fighting for the church;  I will fight too.  I will agree that all is not great with the USA.  It can be again if God's people here will get back into the Word.

Mimi and Connie,
  Yes, of course we shouldn't only "get" from church.  We go to give (the action of loving).  Just for a moment though, let's consider what people need.

People need to be loved.  So one would expect to get loved by the church.
People need to be respected.  So one would reasonably expect to get respected.
People need to be noticed.  No one wants to be ignored.
People need to be a part of something other than themselves.  So we must make room to give this to the people.

Can you think of any others?  I can.

Yes, there is a lot of "getting" in church, just like in society.  The "perfect" christian may be able to only give and never expect or receive anything for it, but I don't know any of those.  Even Jesus, while "enduring the cross and despising the shame", was looking forward to the "glory that was set before Him".  Not that He did it for the glory, but it motivated Him, it kept Him focused on something other than Himself.  Yes, my glory will be when my Father says "well done my good and faithful servant".  But let's not be unrealistic.  Because of need, there is a lot of "getting" in church.

Paul Mimeault

Hey Paul, I've been wanting to get back to you on this subject, but life has been hectic as you can imagine. 

I think the important thing to remember is that attitude is important in getting along with anyone.  How you present yourself reflects how others presents themselves toward you.  If we go to church with a good attitude, people are more likely to respond positively to us.  

If you want love . . .love others.

If you want respect . . . show others respect. 

If you want attention . . . make yourself known.

If you want to be apart of something . . . join in.

Yes, there are other needs people have, but you get out of life what you put in. It isn't right, but that's the way it is.  Life is not fair and never has been.  We never get what we want out of life . . . life . . . well, just happens.  And it always happens for a reason.  We need to remember is that there was only one perfect person and we all know who that is.  We can't please everyone, but we can all try our best to please God.  And if we have a good attitude, it is easier to give.

My husbands uncle sent me this email the other day.  It pretty much summarizes a "good" attitude.

>>> Jim is the kind of guy you love to hate. He is always in a good mood and always has something positive to say. When someone would ask him how he was doing, he would reply, 'If I were any better, I
would be twins!'

He was a natural motivator.

If an employee was having a bad day, Jim was there telling the employee how to look on the positive side of the situation.

Seeing this style really made me curious, so one day I went up and asked him, 'I don't get it!

You can't be a positive person all of the time. How do you do it?'

He replied, 'Each morning I wake up and say to myself, you have two choices today. You can choose to be in a good mood or ... you can choose to be in a bad mood

I choose to be in a good mood.'

Each time something bad happens, I can choose to be a victim or...I can choose to learn from it. I choose to learn from it.

Every time someone comes to me complaining, I can choose to accept their complaining or... I can point out the positive side of life. I choose the positive side of life.

 'Yeah, right, it's not that easy,' I protested.

 'Yes, it is,' he said. 'Life is all about choices. When you cut away all  the junk, every situation is a choice.. You choose how you react to situations. You choose how people affect your mood. You choose to be in a good mood or bad mood. The bottom line: It's your choice how you live your life.'

I reflected on what he said. Soon hereafter, I left the Tower Industry to start my own business. We lost touch, but I often thought about him when I made a choice about life instead of reacting to it.

Several years later, I heard that he was involved in a serious accident, falling some 60 feet from a communications tower.

After 18 hours of surgery and weeks of intensive care, he was released from the hospital with rods placed in his back.

I saw him about six months after the accident.

When I asked him how he was, he replied, 'If I were any better, I'd be twins...Wanna see my scars?'

I declined to see his wounds, but I did ask him what had gone through his mind as the accident took place.

'The first thing that went through my mind was the well-being of my soon-to-be born daughter,' he replied. 'Then, as I lay on the ground, I remembered that I had two choices: I could choose to live
or...I could choose to die. I chose to live.'

'Weren't you scared? Did you lose consciousness?' I asked

He continued, '..the paramedics were great. They kept telling me I was going to be fine. But when they
wheeled me into the ER and I saw the expressions on the faces of the doctors and nurses, I got really scared. In their eyes, I read 'he's a dead man'. I knew I needed to take action.'

'What did you do?' I asked.

'Well, there was a big burly nurse shouting questions  at me,' said Jim. 'She asked if I was allergic to anything 'Yes, I replied.! ' The doctors and nurses stopped working as they waited for my reply. I
took a deep breath and yelled, 'Gravity'.'

 Over their laughter, I told them, 'I am choosing to live. Operate on me as if I am alive, not dead.'

He lived, thanks to the skill of his doctors, but also because of his amazing attitude... I learned from him that every day we have the choice to live fully.

Attitude, after all, is everything .

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.'
 Matthew 6:34.

 After all today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.