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| Love the sinner, but what do you do about the sin? |
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| In reading tonight I ran across a concept I hadn't heard before. I saw the reference to RIC Churches. This turned out to be Reconciliation in Christ Churches, or rather turned out to be churches who were welcoming in people of alternate lifestyles, in particular gay, lesbian, and transgendered people. Anyone who's read much of my stuff knows that I have a burden for people with these backgrounds, but I also have very, very strong feelings about the sinful nature of continuing in these lifestyles. I guess what I'm wondering again has to do with how to minister to people, who are involved in sinful lifestyles, and yet give them room to both grow and fail. I myself have struggled over the years with pornography, so in many ways I include myself when I consider those who struggle with their sexuality. I also have had much contact with people in these lifestyles, so I'm not unaware of their varied personal nature. So, to use an old phrase, how do you "love the sinner, and hate the sin"? To start out the conversation, I think that when we get lazy about sin we start down a slippery slope of justifying any area of sin. We must strongly stand against all sin, but how do we stand, and yet love? |
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You know sometimes when we are sharing with people we have to be careful we don't try to control the way they think or feel about an issue. Scripture says that concerning the seed neither the sower or the one who waters is important. It is God that causes the seed to grow. As a Christian I have discovered that leadership has nothing to do with control but a whole lot to do with serving. Serve them In The Name Of Jesus and demonstrate with your life what is true and just. Place them in Gods hands while you pray and He will make the seed grow. In our evangelism class I discoved it is not my responsiblity to save them. Jesus does a fine job with that. I am there to help show the way.
God Bless |
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Amen Anthony,
Serving is to be like Christ, isn't that the starting point for all of life? |
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Sandra |
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June 05, 2008 at 5:22pm |
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| Yeah, and just when we think we're beginning to get the hang of this servant role-model thing...bam! Being like Jesus is tough, and I tend to fall way short. I suppose it makes me realize how GREAT and AWESOME He is! Anyhow, serving is vital. It is a beginning. We've got to start somewhere, right? To think that someday we will be transformed to be like Jesus. WOW! |
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I agree, folks.
I long related to the 'love the sinner, but hate the sin" maxim. It always seemed to make common sense. And, if not exactly Biblical, it seemed to fit. But, I've laid this one down at the cross, for precisely the reason(s) alluded to by all three of you.
And, I think that to be faithful stewards and Christ followers -- to be the salt and the light Jesus asks us to be of this world -- we need to keep ourselves self-accountable and not so much other-accountable. Most days, it is all I can do to confess my own sins -- knowable, and unknowable -- and ask for forgiveness, and move forward.
Even if we had the "Great Rule Book" and a perfectly objective scorer on this Earth -- which we do not -- I would not be comfortable carrying the burden of others' sin. And to me, that is precisely what "hating the sin" in others implies. I could be wrong. But that's how it looks from here.
There are some actions which are obviously sinful -- to the detriment of self and/or others -- actions which have no discernably honest "justification". But, I would turn the slippery slope argument around -- at what point do I (or some designated referee) cease judging?
Forget sexuality-based issues for one minute. Consider, say, the environment. Is driving a car when you could walk or ride a bike a sin? Is using conventional rather than "green" household cleaning products a sin? Is smoking a sin? Burning leaves? How about stewardship of one's body -- is eating Bratwurst a sin? Drinking beer? Eating Pizza? Twinkies? In the food for thought department, do we look at brocolli or tofu (blechhhh) as penace? There are lifestyle questions -- a couple owning a 5 bedroom 4,000 sq. ft. home in a community where even 1% of school-age children are homeless. Is owning a Porsche Carerra a sin? If so -- I want to sin and be loved! Go ahead, hate my sin -- I can handle it! (By the way, this IS a hypothetical, at least in my case).
Slippery-slope-wise, where does the accounting chore end? Does my Brother tithe? Does he clothe the naked, feed the hungry, house the homeless? Do my Sisters in Charlottesville eschew stylish clothes and settle for two clean everyday outfits, perhaps one special "Sunday" dress, like my Sisters in Tegucugalpa? (And here, I am comparing US upper middle with Honduran upper middle).
Shifting gears -- as if to hammer home the point -- what about the richest and most blessed nation in the world being capable but unwilling to take care of business? Forget moral and ethical and religious dilemmas. God has blessed us with everything we need to take care of everyone's needs -- I know of no single problem that cannot be overcome -- except for our sinful nature.
And in this mess, I am supposed to ponder whether I have been called to love everybody -- including queers -- but hate the "sin". Brother, I don't have enough time in the day to hate everybody's sin and account for it.
Thank God he does not ask me to.
Those are just my thoughts -- I apologize for rambling on.
Peace to all!
--eric
BTW, those kids look sweet. My three are all growed up. Take good care! |
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Enjoyed reading Eric's (long) comment as much as your blog Dennis. Great discussion!
As for me, just a question, and probably an easy one. Do we see any examples of Jesus simultaneously loving a sinner yet "hating" (intentionally distancing himself from) their sin? I suspect not. I think Jesus loved the sinner, period. (Of course he hated sin, but he didn't blast it in those he reached out to -- yeah he said go and sin no more, but he didn't appear to call out individual sins, as if judging behavior.) Just some thoughts. God bless you Dennis! |
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Mike, Dennis, etal.
Aside from the occasional exhortation "go and sin no more" I am unaware of Jesus' concern for "hating" sin. He focused on God's love, and grace, and called upon his followers to do likewise.
Martin Luther -- both saint and sinner -- had much to say about sin. Sometimes -- especially out of context -- what he said appears to be shocking. In a letter to Melanchthon -- a fellow Reformer -- he wrote: "Be a sinner and sin boldly..." which, when taken out of context, frames "Justification by Grace" alone (and not through good works) as a shaky proposition.
"If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly, for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. This life is not the dwelling place of righteousness, but, as Peter says, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. It is enough that by the riches of God’s glory we have come to know the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner."
It is not that we are called by Christ to hate sin. No, we are called to love our neighbor. There is no asterisk after his command. "* only some neighbors", "* only neighbors like me", "* only good neighbors", "* only righteous neighbors", "* only penitent neighbors" never appear as qualifiers.
Again, Luther:
"We receive Christ not only as a gift by faith, but also as an example of love toward our neighbor, whom we are to serve as Christ serves us. Faith brings and gives Christ to you with all his possessions. Love gives you to your neighbor with all your possessions. These two things constitute a true and complete Christian life; then follow suffering and persecution for such faith and love, and out of these grows hope and patience.”
Lest you think this is a lifelong Lutheran cramming some theology down your throat, I quote Luther here simply because I think he gave a great deal of thought to sin, sinners, and God's grace. Sadly, many Lutheran congregations don't get the "unconditional" aspect of love which Jesus teaches and I believe Luther spoke to. Perhaps it is time for a new -- or renewed --Reformation of the church. One that cuts to the chase and deals with the essentials of discipleship and our calling in this world -- to love.
Let go. Let God work through you. Let the love of Christ shine through your life. Claim what is God around you as being from him and of him. Raise up what is good. Pray that his Spirit dwell in your heart and lead you. God is awesome. God is huge. Thank God, we don't have to be God. Forget "Lord Me".
***
As an aside, we (my wife Nancy and I) are gathering together a group of thirteen (okay, twelve would have been a nice round number, but when the Spirit sends you a baker's dozen, go with the flow) on a medical mission to Tegucigalpa, Honduras and the surrounding area. This is my fourth adventure in four years (Dr. Nancy has been doing this longer, not to mention trips to India and Togo). Each trip is different. We go prepared -- but, it is important to note that we go without an agenda. We literally pack up a half-ton of medicines and supplies, t-shirts, socks, underwear, slacks, Purel and extra toilet paper -- and put ourselves in the hands of our (non-Lutheran) brothers and sisters in Christ and work alongside them. We travel in a beat-up big yellow "Blue Bird" schoolbus, from inner-city barrio to rural village, and go see the people. It's stepping out of the boat, for sure, though I'd admit that it is not walking on water -- though, take my word for it, I have seen real live miracles...
Anyway, I say this to invite you all who read this to pray for us, and for our Honduran hosts, and for all the Honduran people. For us, that we stay healthy and safe, or course; that our newbies on this trip empty themselves and get filled by the Spirit; that we listen, and receive. For our Honduran hosts, that they are strong and able to do "double duty" for our week with them, as our hosts and as the spiritual and humanitarian leaders of their community; that they have what they need; that they discern well our itinerary, where the needs exceed our time and resources, that we do the greatest good; that they, too, stay safe and well. And for the Hondurans, mostly; the mothers and children who need care, and hope, and signs of God's love for them; for the men, that they have hope, and recommit to the care of their families and their communities, despite hardship; for the gang members, that they find an alternative answer to a life of desperation on the streets, and rediscover Christ as the one who truly cares for them.
Peace to all!
--eric |
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| I went to a conference about this whole issue in San Diego last fall. It was very interesting to hear the testimonies of the speakers. All of them were either involved in a homosexual relationship in the past or had one or more family members involved in a relationship. One person who spoke was Anne Heche's mom. (The movie star associated with Ellen Degeneres.) They have a website, www.lovewonout.com
Great resources, books, information, conference dates... once you attend a conference and get a better understanding, homosexuality will weigh on your heart as a cry for help more than a burden.
In Him, Amanda |
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