Doc:, yes righteousnes, this is what we have been called to. So many people fall victim to the "love" teaching, which is a false doctrine because it calls for speaking nothing against sin.

We are to love one another, but this does not mean to be a wishy-washy love. Sometimes love hurts, and sometimes to truly love someone, calls for a stiff rebuke.

Can some one explain what the churches have to do to get tax exempt status, I have heard stories, but don't have any facts. My understanding is: to get tax exempt status, they have to pretty much bend over and let the government tell them what is allowed????? 

Malleus, I don't beleive I used the word condem, I said rebuke. If a brother/sister is in sin, we are to address this sin, not ignore it. If the brother/sister refuses to listen, then we are to bring it before the church, if this person still refuses to repent, then we are to turn our backs on this person and turn him/her over to the enemy.

This sound so cruel, and heartless to many, it is definitly not PC, but it works. I was once on the receiving end of this. When I was younger, I was living in sin, shacking up with a girl.

When I was told that this was not right, I refused to listen. The pastor of the church we were going to came over and spoke with us, and told us that while we were shaking up, we would NOT be welcomed back, and to stay away.   WOW!!!!  This made me so mad!!!

And it pretty much went down hill from there. The enemy got a hold of me, and I twisted and turned in the waves of sin. Eventually we broke up, and slowly I started listening to the Lord again.  I am so thankful to the Lord that we did not have any children out of this.

This was 13 yrs ago.... wow how time flies. Have been married now for 12 yrs, and have a wonderful 11 yr old now.

SO>>  I am so thankful for an obedient preacher, that refused to be PC, and rebuked me!! 

 1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Cor. 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 

We must call sin, what it is.... sin!

Quit worrying about how someone might feel, and start fearing the LORD. 
 

I wasn't speaking of you in the specific sense Gary, more the perceptions of many Christians in a more general sense. Sorry if I was not clear on that point. While saying Lauds earlier this morning, one of the readings has stayed with me, and I think that it is because it could be brought to bear on your previous post as well as that on your pastor's actions.

is that supposed to make us think it is ok for a man to lay with another man?
The Bible says it is an abomination. 

oh, I see you removed your previous post Malleus?

ref: my post:

We must call sin, what it is.... sin!

Quit worrying about how someone might feel, and start fearing the LORD. 
 

The Bible says lots of things are abominations Bubbles.When was the last time someone was asked to leave the church on account of bacon? 

The reason that I took it down is that I was trying to be respectful. But as that seems to have fallen by the wayside. I will answer your question. When you neglect to take someone's perspective and feelings into your judgements, you do turn your back on Christ. To fear the Lord is to stand in awe of his power, and no greater evidence of that power is seen than the image of Christ that exists in all of us. That image of Christ, is predicated on one thing Love. Which does God pronounce as sin, to love too much or to love too little?

To live in sin, is separation from Yahweh, to be repentant of our sin is living in His grace.

But too many people think that to repent is just saying I am sorry. To repent is to acknowledge the sin as sin, and then the key is to turn from that sin.

In the case of being a sodomite, it is acknowledging that the Bible does say to "know" (have sex with) another man is sin.  

 Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9

This is spoken of by Paul, referencing judging sin in the Body.

1Co 6:9  Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual
1Co 6:10  will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others. 

Do I love you to say this to you, yes, because as I tell my son, if I didn't love you, I would say nothing and let it go, but because I do love you, and want to see you succeed in Christ, I say this. Not to condemn, but hopefully a seed will be planted, that another can water, and soon Christ can reap a crop of repentance.

If you were not a believer, I would not be speaking to you this way, but because you say you do believe, then you deserve to hear the truth, whether you hear it, or continue to build a callous around your heart is between you and Christ. 

it is not the images, but how you were portaying them, I like the classics, but just because sin was around in 1320, or 1625 does not make it righteousness.

Many of the artists were homosexual, as were the kings, but Christ still spoke about sin as sin. Even John, Jesus cousin lost his head because he was bold enough to speak out about sin. 

 God doesn't want any to perish~ BUT~ many will.

Sigh,here we go again.

Look at the passages before and after the oft cited passage in Leviticus:

(21) You shall not offer any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD.

(23) You shall not have carnal relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; such things are abhorrent.

I am unsure as to how aware you are of ancient deities in the Near East, but Molech had the head of a bull and the body of a man. See the connection between 21 and 23. Half man, half animal. Prohibition against beastality...hmmmm

Did you ever stop to think why the passage is sandwiched between these two? Both 22 and 23 are discussing means of worshipping foreign gods (idolatry). Would it not be logical to assume that the one in between them is discussing the same thing?

In addition to beastaliy and child sacrifice, one of the ways that worship to Molech was practiced was through shrine prostitues of both sexes.  So this passage in Leviticus is not about two males in a loving committed realationship (union, marriage), but rather the sexual act in the service of idolatry.

That will have to do for now. I have plans this evening, but will address Romans and Corinthians later (provided that this post doesn't get deleted)...

PS, Gary if you do feel the need to delete, I understand. It is your thread after all. But if you do, please do me the courtesy of cutting and pasting the text of this particular post and I will start my own thread. Thanks.

Pax et Bonuum,

MD 

Malleus:  as to your post, if you read even further above 21, it speaks about sleeping with another man's wife, and laying with a woman in her monthly period, these have nothing to do with Molek.
 

1Cor. 5:10-13 says

1Co 5:9  In my other letter I told you not to have anything to do with immoral people.
1Co 5:10  But I wasn't talking about the people of this world. You would have to leave this world to get away from everyone who is immoral or greedy or who cheats or worships idols.
1Co 5:11  I was talking about your own people who are immoral or greedy or worship idols or curse others or get drunk or cheat. Don't even eat with them!
1Co 5:12  Why should I judge outsiders? Aren't we supposed to judge only church members?
1Co 5:13  God judges everyone else. The Scriptures say, "Chase away any of your own people who are evil." 

So I will be blocking you now, until you have turned from your sin, then I will be happy to receive you again as a brother in Christ. 

Religious publishers, he acknowledged, could be accused under the law for publishing biblical condemnation of homosexuality. Colorado Springs, where Focus in located, also is home to the huge Christian publishing operations of NavPress and the International Bible Society.

"There are those who simply by publishing Christian materials could find themselves charged with a violation of this statute," he said

The law makes it illegal to deny a person access to public accommodations, including restrooms and locker rooms, based on gender identity or the "perception" of gender identity.

"Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence," Dobson said.

see full story here

so now we have to allow homosexual men to go into the same restroom as our daughters and wives.