Pastor Elam
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Pastor Dave
July 01, 2008 at 10:06pm

Pastor Elam,

Thank you for sharing. I read your blog here very carefully several times. The areas you did well in were adressing the problems in America which are in the news everyday. There is one area of major concern that I have with your post that I would like you to prayerfully consider. Usually in a revival message you will see a message also of repenatance however your message focused on prayer. Biblical revival begins with repentance not prayer my friend. The people must repent and call upon the name of the Lor for this is the true nature of biblical revival not man made revival. Revival is totally a work of God's grace not man's effort. You focused on what we can do to bring about revival in your post but not upon God's grace. Therefore I would challenge your call to revival because it is a man-made call and not a godly call from the Lord. Please do not take this personally because it is not intended personally however it is meant to be corrective as the Scriptures say its purpose is to "correct, reproof, in 2nd Timothy 3:16. I hope you have ears to hear the correction.

Prophet Jay
July 02, 2008 at 4:16am
In the book of Acts we saw the results of unified faith. The disciples were of one mind and one Spirit. We don't see this type of unity in the church. I see segregation and division in the church as well as many false revivals. I don't see many people going out to the masses and yet they sit in church waiting for God to bring souls. We need unity in the body! Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Evangelist Keith Wilson
July 02, 2008 at 4:55am

Revival-
It presupposes that the Church is sunk down in a backslidden state, and a revival
consists in the return of the Church from her backslidings, and in the conversion of sinners.

1. A revival always includes conviction of sin on the part of the Church. Backslidden professors cannot wake up and begin right away in the service of God, without deep searchings of heart. The fountains of sin need to be broken up. In a true revival, Christians are always brought under such conviction; they see their sins in such a light that often they find it impossible to maintain a hope of their acceptance with God. It does not always go to that extent, but there are always, in a genuine revival, deep convictions of sin, and often cases of abandoning all hope.

2. Backslidden Christians will be brought to repentance. A revival is nothing else than a new beginning of obedience to God. Just as in the case of a converted sinner, the first step is a deep repentance, a breaking down of heart, a getting down into the dust before God, with deep humility, and a forsaking of sin.

MarJay HizWay
July 02, 2008 at 5:26am
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.



My friend we are without a shadow of doubt in the last of the last days....and JESUS is soon to come.  Just looking at the news, and even reading all the things that you have shared lets us know that we cannot continue on at this pace and GOD not intervene.  Jesus Himself taught us how to pray...and He said to pray for God's Kingdom to be established here on this earth.....Just look at all the diversity of religions that exist in this world...sisters and brothers can't even agree on simple things....everybody is too busy trying to interpret the Word of God instead of letting the Word of God speak for itself......

Until Jesus returns and sets up His Kingdom here on this earth....there shall be no real peace.....and no real joy....things are unfortunately going to get worse before they get better....and for this nation as a whole to *repent* and turn to God with their whole heart....I'm not holding my breath....but I am looking forward with anticipation to the return of Jesus Christ! 
restore
July 02, 2008 at 5:46am
Pastor Elam
July 02, 2008 at 9:02am

I thank you Pastor Dave for you're words and I have considered them very carefully and I ask that
you also consider my words as non confrontational. Generally that is how things go on this site one person will have a different doctrinal view from another and then they will spend a whole lot
of time debating each other. I agree with Prophet Jay we don't see unity in the Church today. I am
a spirit filled believer and in all of my ways I acknowledge the Lord even when it comes to writing a blog. I repent everyday because I know as Paul said there is nothing good in this flesh I  make
sure I have not done or said or even thought anything wrong I stay in a state of repentance daily.

usually the word repent is reserved for the believer and when we repent we are praying to the Lord to forgive us for our sins or wrongdoing or our lack of not doing his will. I don't see the sinner doing
this because in most cases they don't understand repentance, grace,salvation, or any other thing
that we as believers understand. Revival is for the believer it is to call him back to his first Love.
The truth is we have fallen away from the mission and I felt God tugging on my heart to ask the
body of Christ to Pray for Revival. You are correct I as a man cannot call for a revival but the Holy
Spirit inside me caused me to pray for unity in the body oneness in the body,conviction in the body. God is not going to drop down in anyone's back yard and tell them you need to be saved.
He is going to tell Pastor Dave to do it. Now if you go on you're own that is man's effort but if you
be lead by the Spirit it is not you but Christ in you. Yes the Church of Jesus Christ needs to be
restored, renewed, repent, revived get back to the basics of Ministry without the gimmicks.
I believe when we pray that we are communicating with the Lord. Even to repent you have to pray
or communicate to God. He will turn the hearts of his people towards Him if some one would pray
and then we can focus on the world. that is hard to do when we are divided.I pray for Unity and
Revival in the Body of Christ. I believe that is what the Lord wants. Repentance for someone who
loves the Lord is easy. Taking time out of our busy day to pray seems difficult. Well let me say
that when we have a potluck we can't find a seat,during prayer meeting you can pick anywhere.

7:14 if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

5:17 Pray without ceasing. 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.




 

Pastor Dave
July 02, 2008 at 3:11pm

Prophet Jay-You cannot have unity with the sound doctrine which comes from the Scripture. Any other unity is false and to be avoided. Your premise is all together wrong. There can never be a united church apart from a puplit that stands firm on the Word of God. Only from there can unity be established first in the local church and then outside the walls of the local church.

 

Pastor Dave
July 02, 2008 at 3:23pm

Pastor Elam,

 I can see we have conflicting theological viewpoints on this issue especially in relation to repentance and how God convicts the sinner. One, it is not man who convicts that is the task and ministry of the Holy Spirit. Two, we cannot come to Christ on our own merits or ability. Since this is so it is only by God's grace through the operation of the Holy Spirit in this present time who is working to convict sinners to repentance and lead them to salvation in Christ.  While you may believe that we need to pray forth a revival I disagree. No, we need to preach the Word and stand on its authority. The Word of God is the means by which God has always brought revival in church history. 

I'll use an example that you may be well familiar with. How was the Protestant Reformation started? It was started when Luther smacked those 95 Theses on the wall at Wittenburg. We are still feeling the effects of that decision by Luther today (or at least we should!). You see we don't need to pray for revival because revival is a work of God's grace. We cannot affect God's grace, He freely offers to us but we also have to come. You cannot read the New Testament without seeing the tension between sin and grace. I would go as far as to say you cannot even read the Bible without seeing this tension in play. It is because of that tension  however (sin and grace) that we have a decision which Christ already knows were going to make. 

Now some may disagree with me on this point but predesination and free will are actually compatible systems of thought. You cannot have one without the other just as you cannot have a holy God without also a God of love. God is holy but He is love. God demands justice for sin and calls His children to repent and believe. The message of Jesus was one of repentance to the sinner and the self righteous. To say that repentance is only for the believer is to misapply the Gospel itself which you did do Pastor Elam. Repentance is for the sinner that is how they COME into the fold. Without repentance and faith no man can be saved. We are justified by faith through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Without that there is no revival. 

Revival is both personally and it is corporate. It is individual in the sense that it calls for renewal. But this is again a work of the Holy Spirit to get the invidiual believer to understand the nature and purpose of the Gospel. Yet God also calls unregenerate sinners to repentance by the preaching of His Word. Faith comes by heairng and hearing by the Word of God. If the Word is not taught with clarity, passion and authority then it is a word from man.

Your post presumes that you had a word from the Lord to call the church to pray for revival. The Lord equally puts in checks and balances in His church to test the nature and message of the teaching. Your message has been found wanting because it is not a call to revival it is a call to pray. Revival involves repentance first and foremost. A call to revival as Evangelist Wilson explained to you is a call from God. God calls for everyone everywhere to repent and believe upon His name; however only some will. Yet it is not determined for us to know who will come and who will not come therefore we should preach the Word in season and out of season and not our opinions or philosophies for they are vanity (as 1st Corinthians 1 points out). Therefore I urge you to PREACH the Word of God and not your fanciful words that you have crafted above. 

My encouragement to you is 1st and 2nd Timothy which charge the Pastor to preach the Word in season and out of season like a good solider of Jesus. Be a solider Pastor Elam one who cannot be refuted by the logic of this world or also by the Word of God. May your ministry be based not on your own views which are divisive but on the Word of God which cuts to the heart and convicts both the sinner and the believer of their sin and shows them the real Jesus who is alive and well.

Pastor Dave 

Michael Chauncey
July 02, 2008 at 3:27pm
Prophet Jay doesn't seem to be preaching unity at all cost. It seems to me that he is echoing the prayer of Jesus in John 17.  It is always true that we must earnestly contend for the faith.  There can and must be unity among Jesus true followers.  We may never on this earth agree on some of the finer points of theology, but on the areas that are must assuredly believed among us we can come together and labor in one spirit and one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.
Pastor Dave
July 02, 2008 at 3:38pm

Please pick up a copy of http://www.amazon.com/Revival-Martyn-Lloyd-Jones/dp/0891074155 

 

What is Revival?

by Martin Lloyd-Jones

We can define it as a period of unusual blessing and activity in the life of the Christian Church. Revival means awakening, stimulating the life, bringing it to the surface again. It happens primarily in the Church of God, and amongst believing people, and it is only secondly something that affects those that are outside also. Now this is a most important point, because this definition helps us to differentiate, once and for all, between a revival and an evangelistic campaign.

An evangelistic campaign is the Church deciding to do something with respect to those who are outside. A revival is not the Church deciding to do something and doing it. It is something that is done to the Church, something that happens to the Church.

So then, what is it that happens? The best way of answering that question is to say that it is in a sense a repetition of the day of Pentecost. It is something happening to the Church, that inevitably and almost instinctively makes one look back and think again of what happened on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2.

The essence of a revival is that the Holy Spirit comes down upon a number of people together, upon a whole church, upon a number of churches, districts, or perhaps a whole country. That is what is meant by revival. It is, if you like, a visitation of the Holy Spirit, or another term that has often been used is this--an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

What the people are conscious of is that it is as if something has suddenly come down upon them. The Spirit of God has descended into their midst, God has come down and is amongst them. A baptism, an outpouring, a visitation. And the effect of that is that they immediately become aware of His presence and of His power in a manner that they have never known before.

I am talking about Christian people, about church members gathered together as they have done so many times before. Suddenly they are aware of His presence, they are aware of the majesty and the awe of God. The Holy Spirit literally seems to be presiding over the meeting and taking charge of it, and manifesting His power and guiding them, and leading them, and directing them. That is the essence of revival.

And what does that mean? Well, there are general characteristics which you will find in every revival that you can ever read about. The immediate effect is that the people present begin to have an awareness of spiritual things such as they have never had before.

They have heard all these things before, they may have heard them a thousand times, but what they testify is this: 'You know, the whole thing suddenly became clear to me. I was suddenly illuminated, things that I was so familiar with stood out in letters of gold, as it were. I understood. I saw it all in a way that I had never done in the whole of my life.' The Holy Spirit enlightens the mind and the understanding. They begin not only to see these things clearly but to feel their power.

What are these things of which they become so aware? First and foremost, the glory and the holiness of God. Have you ever noticed, as you read your Bibles, the effect on these people as they suddenly realized the presence of God? Like Job, they put their hands on their mouths or like Isaiah they say, 'Woe is unto me! For I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips.' They have just had a realization of the holi-ness and of the majesty and the glory of God. That always happens in a revival.

There can be a lot of laughing and lightness, and obvious organization in evangelistic campaigns. Not so in a revival, but rather awe, reverence, holy fear, the consciousness of God in His majesty, His glory, His holiness, His utter purity.

And that, as we have seen, leads inevitably to a deep and terrible sense of sin, and an aweful feeling of guilt. It leads men and women to feel that they are vile and unclean and utterly unworthy and, above all, it leads them to realize their utter helplessness face to face with such a God.

Or, like the publican depicted by our Lord in the parable, they are so conscious of all this that they cannot show their faces. They are far back near the door somewhere, beating their breasts and saying, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

The holiness of God, their own utter sinfulness and wretchedness, their own unworthiness; they realize they have never done anything good at all. Before, they thought they had done a great deal, now they see that it is nothing--useless. Like Paul they begin to talk about it as dung and filthy rags. In their utter helplessness and hopelessness, they prostrate themselves and cast themselves upon the love and mercy and compassion of God.

This is the convicting work of the Spirit who takes charge of the situation. People may be held in that state for some time--not only for hours but sometimes for days and weeks, and months. They may become almost desperate.

Then they are given a clear view of the love of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ and especially of His death upon the cross. At last they see it. Oh, they had always believed it theoretically, but it had never truly become real for them. They had honestly believed it, yes, but they had never felt its power, they had never known what it was to be melted by it, to be broken by it. They had never known what it was to weep with a sense of unworthiness and then of love and joy as they realized that 'God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'

Suddenly it all becomes real to them, and they are given to know that the Son of God has loved them and has given Himself for them. It becomes an individual and a personal matter: 'He died for me, even my sins are forgiven,' and peace comes into their hearts; joy enters into them and they are lost in love and in a sense of praise of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

This now becomes the one thing that absorbs them. If they meet anyone they talk about it at once; everybody is talking about it, it is the main topic of conversation, it is the thing that absorbs all their interest. They desire to be together now and to talk about these things and so they get together, and they hold meetings. They meet every night to talk about these things and to praise God and to sing hymns to His glory.

Then they begin to pray, and there they are, hour after hour, night after night, longing to finish work so they might get together with other people who have experienced this movement of the Spirit of God. And that, of course, in turn leads them to have a great concern about others who are outside and who do not know these things.

I am giving you a synopsis of what you read in the books. They begin to get a concern for the members of their own family--husband, wife, father, mother, children, brother, sister--who do not know that they are outside. They tell them about it; they feel they must. There is a constraint that is driving them. They talk about it to people, to friends and to everybody, and they begin to pray for them. Prayer is always a great feature of every revival, great prayer meetings, intercession hour after hour. They pray for these people by name and they plead, and they will not let God go, as it were. They are intent on this with a strange urgency.

And then, after a while, hearing of all this and seeing the change in those whom they have known for so long, these others who are outside begin to join the meetings and to say, 'What is this?' So they come in, and they go through the same experience. And so it happens and thousands upon thousands are converted. Indeed, the whole neighborhood seems to be full of the Holy Spirit. He seems to be everywhere.

People are not only converted in meetings, some are converted as they are walking to the meetings, before they have even got there. Some are converted at their work, in a coal-mine, on top of a mountain. Some are awakened in the middle of the night. They went to bed feeling as usual, but they are awakened with an aweful sense of sin, and they have to get up and pray and plead with God to have mercy. Nobody has spoken to them at that moment--it is the Spirit of God that is acting. He is dominating the whole area. He is filling the lives of all the people.

That is what happens in revival and thus you get this curious, strange mixture, as it were, of great conviction of sin and great joy, a great sense of the terror of the Lord, and great thanksgiving and praise.

Always in a revival there is what somebody once called a divine disorder. Some are groaning and agonizing under conviction, others praising God for the great salvation. And all this leads to crowded and prolonged meetings. Time seems to be forgotten. People seem to have entered into eternity.

A meeting may start at six thirty in the evening, and it may not end until daybreak the next morning with nobody aware of the passing of the hours. They did not have to provide coffee once or twice halfway through. When the Holy Ghost organizes things, time, the body, and the needs of the flesh are all forgotten.

A revival, then, really means days of heaven upon earth. Let me give you one of the greatest descriptions ever written of what is true of a town when there is such a revival or a visitation of the Spirit of God. It was written by the great and saintly Jonathan Edwards about the little town of Northampton in Massachusetts in 1735.

This work soon made a glorious alteration in the town. So that in the spring and summer following, the town seemed to be full of the presence of God. It never was so full of love nor so full of joy and yet so full of distress as it was then.

There were remarkable tokens of God’s presence in almost every house. It was a time of joy in families on account of salvation being brought to them. Parents rejoicing over their children as newborn, husbands over their wives and wives over their husbands.

The doings of God were then seen in His sanctuary. God’s day was a delight and the congregation was alive in God’s service. Everyone earnestly intent on the public worship. Every hearer eager to drink in the words of the minister as they came from his mouth. The assembly in general were from time to time in tears while the Word was preached. Some weeping with sorrow and distress, others with joy and love, others with pity and concern for the souls of their neighbors.

This is God visiting His people. Days of heaven on earth, the presidency of the Holy Spirit in the Church, life abundant given to God’s people without measure.

A revival is a miracle. It is the hand of the Lord, and it is mighty. It can only be explained as the direct action and intervention of God. Men can produce evangelistic campaigns, but they cannot and never have produced a revival. A revival, by definition, is the mighty act of God and it is a sovereign act of God. It is as independent as that. Man can do nothing. God, and God alone, does it.

But not only can men not produce a revival, they cannot even explain it, and that again is most important. If you can explain what is happening in a church, apart from this sovereign act of God, it is not revival.

A revival is something which, when it happens, leads people to say, as the townspeople said in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, 'What is this? What is it?' It is something that comes like a tornado. It is almost like an overflowing tide; it is like a flood. Miraculous things happen, things that are beyond the explanation and the wit of men.

Finally, look at it as it is described in Acts 2. Here are the apostles meeting together for prayer in the upper room. They had been doing it for ten days. Suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing, mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. That is it. Not always the sound, but always the consciousness of the mighty wind of God. The Spirit of God descends upon preacher, prayers, praying people, those meeting in conference.

Do we know anything about that, my friends? Do we believe in God coming in and doing things that we not only cannot do, but cannot even understand, nor control, nor explain. Yea, I ask you, do you long to know such things? To see such things happening again today? Are you praying for such a visitation? For, believe me, when God hears our prayers and does this thing again, it will be such a phenomenon that not only will the Church be astounded and amazed, but even those who are outside will be compelled to listen and to pay attention, in a way that they are not doing at the present time, and in a way that men left to themselves can never persuade them to do.

This is what God can do. This is what God has done. Let us together decide to beseech Him, to plead with Him to do this again. Not that we may have the experience or the excitement, but that His mighty hand may be known and His great name may be glorified and magnified among the people.

 

Pastor Dave
July 02, 2008 at 3:38pm
More here at http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/default.asp?id=27
Pastor Elam
July 02, 2008 at 10:42pm
In the last part of the article you posted is a contradiction to everything you wrote.
Yes we do have theological differences. I believe in everything that happened on the
day of Pentecost including Baptism in Jesus name. The mind set that you have is
one of the reasons we won't have unity in the body of Christ. because we differ in
doctrine you're first duty was to attack as if I am the devil and not a fellow brother.

I will say it again we need to pray for Revival or better yet let me quote from the article
you posted.
It said,
Do we know anything about that, my friends? Do we believe in God coming in and doing things that we not only cannot do, but cannot even understand, nor control, nor explain. Yea, I ask you, do you long to know such things? To see such things happening again today? Are you praying for such a visitation? For, believe me, when God hears our prayers and does this thing again, it will be such a phenomenon that not only will the Church be astounded and amazed, but even those who are outside will be compelled to listen and to pay attention, in a way that they are not doing at the present time, and in a way that men left to themselves can never persuade them to do.

This is what God can do. This is what God has done. Let us together decide to beseech Him, to plead with Him to do this again. Not that we may have the experience or the excitement, but that His mighty hand may be known and His great name may be glorified and magnified among the people.

Make up your mind Pastor do we pray or do we just wait. With you're permission can we do both
They prayed and tarried( waited) on the Day of Pentecost

More quotes:
Prayer is always a great feature of every revival, great prayer meetings, intercession hour after hour. They pray for these people by name and they plead, and they will not let God go, as it were. They are intent on this with a strange urgency.

What is the point to prayer according to your logic Pleading,Praying for people, God will
do it on his own according to predestination no sense calling out people by name that
is what you said or did you misunderstand the article you posted.

I am going to pray to the Lord that he will send revival to Church in America. anyone
who cares to join me is welcome to.

I am going to Pray for Pastor Dave I love you, I love you're zeal,I love you're energy
a lot of it is negative and pointed towards people who are working with what God
gave them. I will also encourage you to spend some time with the Spirit that wrote
the bible.That is were you get revelation,illumination,and impartation. you can't buy
that from seminary, or bible collage. Try kneeology before theology. as for debating
I am done if you would like to discuss how to get the body of Christ to pray together
I welcome you're suggestions.
18:8 and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will repent of the evil that I intended to do to it. 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will repent of the good which I had intended to do to it. 18:11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: 'Thus says the LORD, Behold, I am shaping evil against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.'

Evangelist Keith Wilson
July 04, 2008 at 6:34am
Pastor Elam and Pastor Dave,

 I have read what each of you had to say on this subject and can see the problem that is showing up. First of all Pastor Dave, Revival is for the "Believer" to get back to their first love, back to what we should be doing in the first place: Winning lost, Spreading the Word! The Word that will prick the hearts of the Sinner and keep us, believers (the repentant believer focused on the task.

I can see why we need a Revival in America now because Christians are debating on things and using the ego to prove who is right and who is wrong instead of what God says. Revival is needed, as i stated before.

Backslidden Christians will be brought to repentance. A revival is nothing else than a new beginning of obedience to God. Just as in the case of a converted sinner, the first step is a deep repentance, a breaking down of heart, a getting down into the dust before God, with deep humility, and a forsaking of sin.(This will bring unity)

What I see here is people pointing out problems instead of seeking a solution.
Pastor Elam
July 04, 2008 at 1:39pm
Yes Evangelist Wilson I agree this blog was written because
I felt the Holy Spirit nudge me about praying for revival. It sort
of  turned in to an attack on my theology I allowed my flesh to
get in the way and so this blog sort of lost it's intended affect.

I want to thank you for being Godly enough to say probably what
others were thinking but did not say. I want to apologize to Pastor
Dave and to all of My MyChurch family for allowing my flesh to
override my better judgement. I decided to defend my character
rather than to stick to the issue. Pray for me. Pastor Elam
Evangelist Keith Wilson
July 04, 2008 at 2:43pm
Pastor Elam, you are one of the strongest Men of God I know, and I think that many who get to know you will see the same. ( WE DO NEED TO PRAY FOR REVIVAL)

I pray that we all come to the unity of the faith. Continue your work and be blessed.
                                                                          Your Brother in Christ Evangelist Keith Wilson
Pastor Dave
July 14, 2008 at 9:00pm
I accept your apology Pastor Elam and hope you can forgive me also. While I don't agree with the principles you laid out I can still agree to disagree in Christian love. God bless.
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