Kathy
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||July 12, 2008 at 5:16pm|email it|5774 reads
 

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Patti A Hagadorn
July 12, 2008 at 6:00pm

A dear friend "confessed" his sexuality to me several years ago. I still this person. It did nor change how I feel. I DO believe however as you say, I will love him Steve, but not his sin! How could I turn my back? He feels as I am the only link he has to God. I need to convinse him otherwise.

mstovall2003
July 12, 2008 at 7:03pm
22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 22:38 This is the great and first commandment. 22:39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

I have a variety of friends, gay and straight.  They are exactly that FRIENDS who I hold dear to my heart.  I do look at them as black, white, straight or gay, They are my friends.  I don't have  converations with people who sit in judgement as to who is sinning and who isn't.  I do not feel it is my place to judge, my place is to love.

AWESOME BLOG
mstovall2003
July 12, 2008 at 7:06pm
meant to say I DO NOT look at them as black, white, straight or gay, they are my friends.

Fingers faster than mind and eyes(LOL).... 
Bestemor
July 12, 2008 at 9:34pm
Kathy, this is so accurate theologically and scientifically.  I wish many others could read it beyond mychurch.  May these words be blessed and heeded.
Wolf Spirit Child
July 12, 2008 at 9:53pm
I loved this blog and I sure did need it. I will be adding a blog for friends only & I will see how many still accept me for who I am after they learn what I am going to tell them. Maybe I will someday, but not right know.
Ragland
July 12, 2008 at 10:24pm

Hi Cathy

A blog which has been written with a balance. I was wondering about this topic because a friend of mine asked about this. While I agree with you sexual orientation may not be a sin, I feel if two gays are united together for sexual act, it should be considered a sin. More over Jesus Christ himself says, even if we think in our minds (hearts) some thing wrong, should be considered a sin.as written in  Mat 5:28 ( But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ) So I think If  people  are gay by instinct,  we can not do anything but if they want to get married or be united as a couple then it is some thing else, because, marriage was instituted by God for the purpose of  reproduction of human race in  a well disciplined way.  By being gays one can not achieve this purpose. Therefore it may not be natural.

How ever it requires further discussion to understand what Jesus would do if someone went to Him with a gay orientation.

 

voice_in_dc
July 12, 2008 at 10:42pm
Kathy,

Great post. I enjoyed the video, too. I had forgotten that song. Knowing the facts behind it now, it takes on a truly significant meaning...as do most of the songs we sing when we understand the heart of the writer.

Thank you for taking a stand and documenting your position so clearly.  You have a good ability to articulate these tough subjects.

One thing I want to certainly "second" is your call to action. I even go so far to say that if someone hasn't spent time discussing life with a person who is in this lifestyle, then I don't really care what their opinion is. If they have indeed spent time walking alongside a person, then we can converse.  As you point out, even the founder of Exodus, a ministry I worked with for three years, said that there is no "cure". However, he does believe that there are many people who make bad choices and get caught in a lifestyle they don't like and feel trapped. How many of us have felt that way about part of our lives?

My next point will be read wrong by a lot of people. It is hard to discuss with a few words. You touched on it on your list from the Bible. If we truly want to believe that everything written in the Bible is to be taken literally, then that list has to be applied to each of our lives. If so, then I am the chief of sinners (where have we heard that?). If so, then who amongst us can be saved?  We are not saved by keeping the law, but only through His grace. My point here is that EVEN IF HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? WE ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. HIS BLOOD, HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION PAID THE PRICE FOR ALL OUR SINS, PAST AND FUTURE! IT IS ONLY BY HIS GRACE THAT WE CAN BE SAVED. One sin is not greater than any other sin. They all separate us from God. Praise God we are not measured on the basis of our ability to keep the law!

So my advice to people who think their gay brother or sister is a greater sinner than they are - get over it. If you can't find a way to love one another, then you have an issue with God. Go get that plank out of your eye before we address your brother or sister.

BTW, I would like to know your thoughts on gluttony. That seems to be rampant in our churches today. Perhaps it is time we started making those people feel less than human, too. (sarcastically stated)

Last comment for now...I do believe you are dead on with your thoughts about sexuality confusion in our society. Perhaps over another glass of tea we could discuss this further. I personally think if people would turn off the tv, spend the time loving their family and neighbor, we would see a whole different complexion in our society and perhaps less confused people...but who will do this?

Good job, Kathy.
Kathy
July 12, 2008 at 11:23pm
Patti, you are a good friend!  Your comment highlights the greatest tragedy in this entire issue:  that so many gay people believe their perception of the church's assessment that, God does not love them.  I will pray for your friend, and you are welcome to share this blog with him if you think it would help.

Mstovall, I love you!   :)

Juan, I agree there is no distinction between homosexual adultery and heterosexual adultery.  Adulterous behavior is sin.  Your dad was a wise man!

Bestemor, thank you, my friend!

Megan, a prayer for you tonight.

Ragland, your view is a popular one.  Thank you for sharing it!

Voice, wow!  What excellent  and thought-provoking comments!  I love your spirit, and the tea will happen one day!
 
Mike n Laura
July 12, 2008 at 11:27pm
Balanced blog Kathy, a viewpoint strongly defended. I would have to agree that a person's sexual orientation is not itself sinful, nor should homosexual persons ever be condemned or excluded from participation in a church. Where I struggle with this blog is with the insistence that folks are being condemning, just because they believe the bible's apparently clear wording on this issue represents God's mind (or did I misread). Most Christians I know, whose faith is a BIG part of their lives (i.e. living by the Spirit), are very kind to homosexuals, even having homosexual friends!! We do!

I believe the offense to many Christians isn't the lifestyle itself, but the advocacy of the lifestyle.

An aside, I'd like to know how you defend a statement such as "Homosexuality as we think of it today was nonexistent in both OT and NT times", particularly in light of Solomon's observation (inspired by the Spirit of God) that "there is nothing new under the sun" (history repeats itself), plus pure logic....why would this "pure instinct" be a new phenomenon??

ps... Many have successfully come out of the homosexual lifestyle. You'll find some of their testimonials are here.
Cynthia Zirkwitz
July 12, 2008 at 11:50pm

Hi Kathy

I loved this piece and how you have identified your purpose to speak out for those who are denied entry into Christian fellowship because they are 'different'.  This is a lovely balanced-insightful-scholarly article and reminds me of the writing of one of my fave writers, Philip Yancey.  I am right on the same page with you, Girl.  I have a friend in our particular faith community who is 'accepted' because he is a gifted musician and a great teacher-- we'd be lost without him in our fellowship and others recognize that, thankfully.  He is much beloved because he is so naturally loving and kind.  I believe he has had a huge impact on our church community's perspective on homosexuality because I have not heard any recent demeaning allusions to same-sex marriage (the big bugaboo in our previous church community).  

Kathy, I wonder if you would allow me to copy your article (with any byline you choose) to my blog Most Amazing Prophecies in the Comox Valley?  If you are not comfortable with this, please let me know.  I just think it would be of value for me to get out there on my blog for my particular readership (not huge, but decent).

I thank you again for a terrific article!

Kathy
July 13, 2008 at 12:07am
Mike, thank you for your comments.  I can vouch for your love for all people.  It shows!

As for the condemnation question, my point was not that a literal interpretation of Scripture is condemning (did I understand you correctly?), but that those who do condemn usually do so based on a literal interpretation of the Scripture.  This is not a blog against literal interpretation, but I pointed out that I believe our mode of interpreting Scripture very strongly correlates to our positions on homosexuality. 

I didn't understand your comment:
  "I believe the offense to many Christians isn't the lifestyle itself, but the advocacy of the lifestyle."  Can you explain what you meant by that?  If the "lifestyle" is not offensive, why would "advocating" it be offensive?  And what exactly is "the lifestyle," and what do you mean by "advocating," just so we're on the same page.

Your other question: I carefully said "Homosexuality as we think of it today" was nonexistent in OT and NT times.  I certainly agree with you that homosexuality has existed in every culture of every time in history.  It's the culture around it that has changed.  There is no evidence that OT or NT cultures had any concept of same-sex couples being monogamous partners.  They more likely married the opposite sex and had same-sex relationships at the same time, without the taboos of our culture.  

I'm glad you posted the Exodus link again.  There are indeed many testimonials posted on such sites, and I believe they are written in sincerity.  Anyone, homosexual or heterosexual, can, for a time, commit to celibacy or to whatever he believes God must want him to do, expecially when under immense social pressure to do so.  Eventually however, maybe 2 years later, maybe 5 . . ., those commitments are likely to crumble, leaving the gay person feeling like a failure.  See my story above about the Exodus member adopted by Focus on the Family, who quickly disappeared from the ministry after being spotted in a gay bar again a couple of years later.  I have listened to many such stories, and even some of gay couples who met each other in the ex-gay ministries.  I have never heard anyone look back 5 years of more and say he was cured, although I certainly can't say there's no such story.  The concept of ex-gay is a flawed one.  Can you imagine being cured of heterosexuality?  As Christians we have to move from seeing homosexuality as something that needs to be cured, and accept it as the way some people are made.  Then we can share the Gospel with them in a meaningful way.

Thanks, Mike!  
Kathy
July 13, 2008 at 12:13am
Cynthia, thank you for your very encouraging words!  You are very welcome to repost my blog, as long as you include a link either to this blog or to my profile page, as identification.  Thanks, and I'll add your readers to my prayers for this blog!  May God word as He sees fit!
Dr Wilson Morales
July 13, 2008 at 12:21am

Kathy,

Your blog is thought provoking and will inevitably warrant a carefully thought out and well documented response.  Regretfully, no matter where one stands on this issue, orientation, or understanding of "diversity," you have chosen a polarizing topic. 

Yo