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| The last days? |
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As I look at current world events, I can't help but think back to the past and all the times I have heard preachers use different world events in time to prove that we are living in the last days. Yet, when you think about it, we don't really need the proof that we are living in the last days; Peter told us that the day of Pentecost was "that which was spoken by the prophet Joel", going on to quote Joel: "In the last days I shall pour out my Spirit upon all flesh". That is proof enough. So when will the Rapture happen? I don't know, other than when God's scheduled time arrives, I know that it will happen. The events occurring in the world today speak to me of "setting up" things for the rapture to occur. For example: - The alliances that are forming in the Middle East and beyond
- The events occurring in the Middle East and beyond
- The continuing increase in anti-Israeli sentiment
All of these things point to an original design, a to-do list if you will, that points to the last day events. What do you think?  |
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This is a subject that I have tried to conquer and end up being more informed and yet somehow more confused. I believe (personally) that this world is shaping up to fall in upon itself. And it's all centering around Israel.
I know the Lord has given us a description of the final years of the earth as we know it, prior to his second coming. I think we are definitey seeing the shadows that precede it.
I've heard people say that "the Last Days" speak of the "last days" of the Jewish system and concluded in the coming in judgement in 70 AD. There are too many places in scripture where I can see that is simply not the case. Not the least of which is this portion of scripture....
2 Pet 3:3-10
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)
Here - the last days are wrapped up in the earth and heavens passing away with a great noise...I don't think that happened long ago. I think that we are currently in the last days. And as Peter alluded to by quoting Joel, they were also in the "last days" then. All I can understand about this is that the last days are the "church age" days and we will be in the last days until the last day.
I believe (as do you) largely because of current events that it will be soon. But if I were to find out that it were to be 100 years from now, I would be surprised a little but not shocked. A lot of folks have missed the mark of when they thought this would all wrap up...like Hal Lindsey all but predicting a return in 1982.
It seems that we are supposed to be interested and looking for his return, but our focus should be on living for him, and occupying until he comes. |
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David |
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November 08, 2006 at 1:23pm |
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I couldn't agree more. If it took another 100 years for the rapture to occur, I won't be surprised, which is not to say that I don't think it will happen sooner because I do.
I think when looking at the last days scenario it falls something like this:
1. Jesus comes to die on the Cross and fulfill the law, ending the need for further sacrifices.
2. The Holy Ghost comes first to the Chosen ones, in other words the Jews.
3. Following prophecy, the Holy Ghost is poured out upon all flesh - in other words, it's now available to anyone - this starts what I call the Gentile age
4. When the rapture occurs, the Gentile age effectively ends. Everything that occurs after the rapture is focused on the Jews so they can be prepared to finally accept Jesus as the Messiah
I've been reading a lot lately about Jewish feast. Fascinating stuff. And, if you look at the feast of Rosh Hashanah, the 4 step process above compares closely to it. I'll post some more about that one of these days.
I think that we get caught up so much in watching for Him that we forget to work for Him. "Why stand ye gazing up into the heavens?" There is, in my opinion, a huge difference in watching in readiness for Him and being so obsessed with the Rapture we fail to do what we are supposed to.
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Hi, Dave.
Sorry I couldn't be there tonight to hear your teaching. Gabe's been sick and Mistie was supposed to call Sarah to take her place in her class so she could stay home with Gabe while I went to church. As it turns out Sarah's kid's sick too, so I was stuck at home with Gabe...
But anyway...As I was reading your post and we were in agreement that it is possible (though not likely) that the rapture could be 100 years away...there is one scripture that came to mind that a lot of people use to say that it must be an occurence that will happen within around 6 or 7 years.
I was just wondering what your take on it was...
It's this....
Matt 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(KJV)
Some say, that encoded in this saying is a message that when Israel once again becomes a nation...that generation will not pass until ALL THESE THINGS (including the full length of the tribulation) come to pass. As such it's been around 58 years...so even if the rapture were right now, "all these things" could not be fulfilled until it had been 65 years.
The question is - what is a generation? Hal Lindsey used to think it was 40 years, now apparently he thinks it's 70. And so if the rapture and 7 years of tribulation don't begin by 2012 I don't know what the next definition of a "generation" will be. I've also read some that believe that the Greek word "genea" means simply that race. That Jewish race would not diminish until all the described events occur. That seems very possible to me to be the correct interpretation. If we keep making a generation a little bit longer just to fit our explanation of Jesus' words, in enough time we could look rather foolish, interpreting it this way (that is, if by this 'generation' he meant this 'Jewish race') if He does not return for another several decades.
It also troubles me that in order for it to mean all that, the verse's reading must be restated. As it stands it says "This generation shall not pass"...people that believe that the fig tree is Israel and the budding is it's reinstatement as a nation change the wording to "The generation that sees all these things shall not pass".
I personally have a very difficult time buying into this completely. It seems to me that he is only saying "just as when the fig tree begins to bud you know Summer is near, when these things begin to happen you'll know the second coming is near." - I really have a hard time seeing Israel real closely in this. That's not to say it isn't right. There's a lot of things I used to could not understand but in time I come to see it. I just don't see this yet.
Many say it's because Israel is constantly compared to a fig tree in scripture. Maybe it's because I'm still young and haven't discovered this for myself. But I can only find one solid example of this (in Jeremiah, and it's not a tree but 2 baskets of figs) and one possible other example when Jesus curses the fig.
Another point about this is that in the parallel account of Luke he quotes Jesus as saying "the fig tree and all the trees"
Luke 21:29-31
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
(KJV)
So in that, is Israel compared to all trees? This is just a concept I've heard a lot of 'prophecy guys' (most of whom I do not trust real far) throw out without any real scriptural exegesis. I know you've looked into a lot of Jewish things. I was wondering if you could convince me of what they've not been able to yet, or if you, like me, are not real sure that it's a good interpretation or not.
Can't wait to hear from ya! If not tomorrow afternoon I'll understand since your reply might be hard to squeeze in at work.
God bless you, buddy |
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David |
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November 09, 2006 at 6:26am |
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So often we tend to look for some deep hidden meaning in things of the scripture, because so often there IS a deep hidden meaning. However, if you look at these scriptures, I believe that Jesus is simply drawing an analogy.
Look at what He says: (paraphrasing) "Look at these trees. Whenever you see them begin to bud and blossom, you know that summer is close."
Now some like to use these scriptures in an attempt to decipher the date of the Rapture. But in reality, what He goes on to say is:
"It's the same way with these events I have told you about. When you see them, you will know the rapture (our word) is close."
When I read these scriptures, I see a teacher using an illustration to clarify what He is saying, rather than some kind of secret "da Vinci code" to figure out something that only God knows.
Remember, Jesus Himself said that of that day and hour, no one but the Father knows when it is. Hal Lindsey, while a very intelligent man, for all pratical purposes is a false prophet in a sense. He claimed the world would be gone by the 80's, and it's still here.
The bottom line for me is this: Jesus gave us several things to watch for, not (in my opinion) so we would stand gazing up into the heavens, but so we would know that the time was drawing near and we would be motivated to work that much harder to get more people in.
Look at one of the main things Jesus said about the end times - He said that the love of many would grow cold, that people would be apathetic about when He would be returning. As we see these things come to pass, it's further confirmation that what He said was true, and that should motivate us to "kick it up a notch" and work harder for Him.
Regarding His statement that "this generation will not pass", let me look into that a little further before I comment.
Man, I love this blogging stuff!
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Cool, Dave.
We're in agreement. I try not to read something into a statement when the actual intent of it is very plain. I don't know if that interpretation started with Hal Lindsey to generate more "end times buzz" or what.
I just kind of get a little annoyed by these guys that do nothing but look into prophecy 24/7. It doesn't really ring true of Christian evangelism. You seldom hear the cross preached, or Christian ethics taught, but you'll hear a lot of wild eyed nuclear bomb conjectures that really don't edify the body of Christ, nor does it attempt to reach the lost.
I'm not saying I have no respect for a great eschatological study, because I do. I love to read those portions of scripture and read and listen to commentary on them. But for that particular study to envelop an entire ministry (such as Van Impe, Lindsey and others) seems to me to be a real waste.
But as far as the original intent of your blog. It definitely does seem that things are shaping up for the end. As (I'm ashamed to say) uninformed as I am of particular day to day details of the activities in the Middle east, you'd have to be living in a cave not to see that nearly every nation in that area is feverishly intent on helping the Palestinians destroy that nation. We are one of their few solid friends and I'd not be surprised if we are not so tight with them in 10 or 15 years (if Jesus doesn't return).
Either way...I can't wait to get there. But I'm cool stickin' around here awhile too.
I suppose it's kind of like a baby in a womb. The baby doesn't really want to leave. It's all they've ever known. But the amazing world on the other side is incomprehensible to them. I think Heaven is incomprehensible to us. And though sometimes we say we can't wait to be there, we are kind of comfortable in our own little world as well. But once we get there we'll forget this old rotting place pretty quickly.
Hopefully we can all gather a few more people to take with us in the time we'll been given from now to then. |
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How about the muslims? Was watching Sid Roth's Naturally Supernatural a couple of nights ago and he had a guest on, Faisal Malik a former muslim, now born again and with a beautiful testimony...He has written a book "Here comes Ishmael" sounds like an interesting read...and perhaps relevant to the topic of the last days.....
(you can google Sid Roth and watch this on the computer...also if you google Faisal Malik you can see some other video of him on Patricia Kings Extreme Prophetic. |
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