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| The Femininity of God |
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Ever been to a progressive dinner? Fellow-shipping at as many homes as you have courses of you meal? Oh yea, then the last house you go to would be for desert!
This is a progressive Blog, on the Feminine person of The Godhead. I'm not going to write a full length blog taking it all in at once, I'm going to give the appetizer, then add to it as I address any posts, and move throughout my understanding of this subject,(it may not take long).
I have heard it said, and I agree, don't major on the minors of scripture. This subject doe's not have a major role in our salvation, so I won't major on it. It's just food for thought!
Genesis Chap. 2, is the detailed account of Adams creation, and Eve's creation.
We know that Adam was created, and was unable to find a suitable "helpmate" in all of The Creators world. There were male and female this, that, and everything else, but no female human. Until God put a deep sleep on Adam, and took out of Adam everything needed to make Eve with.
We know that our God is One:
6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
The Lord created Adam in the physical realmand found he had no helpmate he could fellowship with, until he took the human femininity out, which became Eve in the physical realm.
We know also that even though God is one, He spoke to Himself:
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
So God, who is Spirit, and not having any problem fellow-shipping with Himself in the spirit realm, had to separate the male and female human Adam, so they could fellowship in the physical realm! As, Adam and Eve!
I hope your appetite is turned on, there is a lot more! |
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| To add a comment to "The Femininity of God" |
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| August 05, 2008 |
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| Keep going :) |
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| August 05, 2008 |
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| I agree with Cindy keep going my friend. |
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| August 05, 2008 |
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| What is next? |
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| August 05, 2008 |
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Ok, ready? Let's look at some Old Test. examples of the femininity of God:
91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.
God's creation emulates, and examples the creator. How many Roosters will gather the chicks under his wings? It's the mother Hen that will do such.
1:20Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
It's been said, the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. Most of the first teaching is done by mothers.
Let's look at the birth of Jesus shall we?
1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Ok, so the three persons of the Godhead can be seen in this one verse!
1) The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee
2) The power of The Most High shall overshadow Thee ( God the Father)
3) That Holy Thing that shall be born of thee (Jesus)
Isn't that interesting that the Male, and Female entity were present at the conception of Jesus, The Son of God.........no, not really,.........kinda natural if you ask me.
Ok, I'll save the rest for later? or are you still hungry? |
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| August 05, 2008 |
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My bad, took to long between courses on this progressive dinner and everyone went to McDonalds along the way! :)
Actually I've got more time this evening than I thought I would have. So let's continue.
"The promise of The Father"
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
I can't read Arabic, but I've been told this verse says "She" will guide you into all truth, in the Arabic Bible
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Greek word for Comforter, is deff. as helper, more a feminine role than planner, or administrator. ( I gotta be careful, roles can be shifted)
Dad don't comfort as much as Mom does! She's just a natural at it.
Ok are you ready for desert? It's truth in nature, and I think I have The Spirit of God in it's understanding. It's kinda funny, so it will be our sweet desert.
12:32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Here Jesus is saying: ok, ok, look, Dad can take care of Himself, and if you say anything against me, I can let it slide because I know your in a battle for understanding,...........but if anybody, says anything against my Mom, boy they'd best watch out! No forgiveness available for that kinda talk!
That reaction is I believe in every red blooded son for his Mom! "You can't talk about my Mom that way." Am I right??
I know that there are a lot of verses that only speak of God in the masculine. My Mom gave up her last name and took the last name of my Dad. She still gets mail that way 19 years after Dad died! I don't think The Holy Spirit cares, because after all, God is One, perfectly. |
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| August 06, 2008 |
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Thank you Cindy Lou, Patti, Mr Larry, for leaving a post to encourage me to write more.
I ran an errand after starting last night, and went ahead and finished it when I got back.
Grace, and Peace to Y'all |
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| August 06, 2008 |
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| I very much enjoyed this blog. It was like it was spoken with authority through the Spirit of God. Love ya my brother. God Bless. |
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| August 06, 2008 |
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Sure Juan, thank you for posting on my blog, I'm sorry the purpose was not clear.
Most people fail to see the femininity of Almighty God. They see the creation and all around is Male and Female of every species, but yet don't even think , or perceive that their God has a feminine personality, along with the masculine.
Some even teach that Mary, the mother of Jesus has to be the intercessor to bridge the gap between mankind and a hard-nosed Father figure male deity.
I wanted to show, in the Bible, support that the Triune God we worship , Father, Son and Holy Spirit , is also Father , Son, Mother God, all in one and one in all.
The Father is perfectly "balanced" and does not need Mary to be a intercessor, because the Father is balanced perfectly by The Holy Spirit, the feminine person of the Godhead.
Just as Adam was created in the image of God, Adam and Eve were created in the image of God. |
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| August 06, 2008 |
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| Larry, thank you for the gracious post. I wanted to share what I believe the Holy Ghost shared with me. |
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| August 06, 2008 |
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Tom, It was refreshing to read about the feminity of God. I believe God is our all in all. He gives us the guidance and leadership of a father and the compassion and tenderness of a mother. He meets all our needs if we allow Him to. He provides for us as a husband and father should and consoles us as a mother. God is God....He is who and what He is and that is enough......no matter how we perceive Him. Love ya |
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| August 06, 2008 |
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| Thanks my sweetie, that was very well written! Love u2 ! |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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Tom, I've often thought of this.... but have never heard anyone or "seen" anyone put it into words. This is so interesting! Thank you so much Tom!! Peace to you =0) |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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Tom this is a common strain of thought in Eastern Orthodoxy. It is known as Sophiology. You may want to look into the works of the Orthodox scholars Vladimir Solovyov, Pavel Florenski, Nikolai Berdyev and Sergei Bulgakov for more informatatio, though I am not sure how much of their stuff is in translation.
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| August 07, 2008 |
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| Livewire, Thank you for your post, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Peace to you and yours also. |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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Malleus, thanks for the post, I'm unfamiliar with those scholars, or Sophiology.
The only Sophi I've ever known is my ex-mother-in-law so I don't even want to go there!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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Brother Juan, thank you for the post, did you do your research before, or after Malleus posted?
If it was before, did you ask a "loaded" question in your eairlier post?
I don't come from any other than Christian-as-best-as-we-can-get-it-at-this-moment background.
I grew up in the Missouri Lutheran Church, received The Promise of The Father, went to a Full Gospel church in 1983(aprox) and have been in those circles ever since.
What I bloged was not from any reading of any kind or hearing, it is what I perceived as The Holy Spirit teaching me more about the God I worship.
Why it would not be embraced by Christians, seeing how it's "in the Bible" I don't know.
Possibly that's why I was led to blog it? To show Christians that it's part of creation, and who their God is?
Thanks again for the post Juan, your most welcome! |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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Yes, that's one of the verses that got me seeking The Lord about it, it's quoted in the above blog.
Yes, I can see if someone is supporting a seperate deity concept it would not be Christian doctrine.
I am by no way supporting any such thing, only that The Triune God that I've always been taught about is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, with the Holy Ghost being the femininity of God. And our God is ONE. More than in just purpose, or unity in thought, but totally one in Being!
Do you think, that because of not wanting to get mixed, our early fathers avoided the possibility by calling God the Mother the Holy Spirit? I know in pagan religions they had a mother god figure. |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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| Well if you read the early Fathers, the idea of Magna Mater scared the beejezus out of them (read some of Augustine). Though the feminine aspect if God (especially in its conception of the Theotokos) is a strong strain throughout Eastern Christianity, and is also quite prevalent in the Latin Church in Cistercian, Franciscan, and Carmelite manifestations of spirituality. |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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You may also wish to consider the following passage, which I have always found interesting:
8:22 The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. 8:23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. 8:24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. 8:25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth; 8:26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 8:30 then I was beside him, like a master workman; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of men. While the English translation does not communicate this very well, in the Hebrew the pronoun which is used throughout this passage is a feminine one. This passage may also be why in the Orthodox conception of the Trinity the Spirt precedes the Son. Whereas in the Latin conception of the Trinity the Son precedes the Spirit. One of the reasons for our lamentable schism.Hope this helps a bit in yur continuing studies. |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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Thank you Malleus,
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Looking at Proverbs, from your quote, we see God in the first verse, and The Holy Spirit in the second verse as that workman, hovering over the waters, creating with the Father.
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| August 07, 2008 |
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| Gender is a feature of humanity. I'm unaware of any passage that even hints that God has a specific gender. The references to God as "him" and such are incidental - designed solely to designate God as a personal reality and not anything impersonal. But the idea of God possessing any gender is based purely on speculation without merit. Even the angels of heaven are without gender (cf. Matt. 22:17). |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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| Every theologian will tell you that God has no gender per se, that the term Father is not a sexual term, because God has no sex. It is an anthopomorphism so that we can understand God in our terms. Man needs woman and vice versa to complete each other. God does not. He is the complete expression of both male and female. It is not an insult at all to refer to the feminine side of God. It is a very interesting exercise in theology to study God from this point of view. It helps us understand him better. |
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| August 07, 2008 |
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thank you S L Guthrie for your post and comment.
I do not personally think that the above references in the Bible are speculative to our God's gender.
I see it in His creation, I see it in Adam and Eve, being created in His image, I see it when Jesus was conceived.
We may have to agree on that we disagree. |
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| August 08, 2008 |
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Grant welcome back!
God is the complete expression of Male and Female...........I could not have said it better.
I think it interesting why did God bring all the animals to have Adam find a helpmate from, when Eve was "inside" Adam, unable to fellowship with him in the physical realm, and God was.....like.....what's the problem Adam??? I have no trouble.........what's wrong with you?.....Oh yea,....physical realm vs/ spiritual realm,..........better bring Eve out.
Ok, Adam, being created in God's image, what's the term for having both sexual organs in the same person? Could Adam have populated the earth himself, before Eve was taken out? |
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| August 08, 2008 |
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i wrote a blog about this once. I can't remember what I called it. But, yes, as I have come to understand from the great scholars. There is what is called the "Sixth Day" creation. they are those spoken of in Gen 1:27-30.
Father made the Adam, or the adam where Jesus lineage would come in order to give believers a way to tell the difference. The sixth day creation is the Ethnic or races. It is impossible for an asian or any person of color to be born from a white couple.
It is also good to note. Cain does not appear in Adam's genealogy. born of Eve yet not by Adam. Called the Posterity of Cain. |
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| August 08, 2008 |
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Juan, there is a tradition in Judaism of Adam having a first wife. According to the the Genesis Rabbah (specifically passage 18.4) one finds: R. Judah b. Rabbi said: At first He created her for him and he saw her full of discharge and blood; thereupon He removed her from him and recreated her a second time. Hence it is said: This time she is bone of my bone. There is also a late classical (or very early medieval, depending on how you date it) texts called the Alphabet of Ben-Sira which states: After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone' (Genesis 2:18). He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith immediately began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air. Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angels to bring her back. Perhaps Lilith's offspring (according to other accounts she became a consort to Azmodeus) were what poplulated the world and what Cain encountered, and whose actions would lead to the Flood. |
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| August 08, 2008 |
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| Wasn't Lilith, Frasier Crane's wife on the sitcom Cheers? I think that was her name. I think Cheers had as much to do with this discussion as anything else you guys are talking about. Sheesh! |
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| August 09, 2008 |
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Juan, the Lilith story arose out of the rabbinical tradition as a way to explain the two creation stories in Genesis:
1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." Note in this account man and woman were created simultaneously. However: 2:20 The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper fit for him. 2:21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 2:22 and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. In this account man was created first and woman later. While it is true that the name of Adam's first mate is not given, the story is there. The name Lilith one can find in Isaiah: 34:14 And wild beasts shall meet with hyenas, the satyr shall cry to his fellow; yea, there shall the night hag alight, and find for herself a resting place. In the origingal Hebrew, the word "night hag" is Lilith. |
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| August 09, 2008 |
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Good exchanges fellas
Golden : Who says Adam and Eve were white?
A brown tone can produce the black, and the white races, and everything in between
by segregation and in breeding, segregation happened in the days of Peleg (sp?)
Who is good at math? The exponential growth of the populations can (I thought) be
contributed to just Adam, and Eve, both created by God as perfect, healthy
specimens, able to bear children every 10 months or so, for hundreds of years!
Juan : Yea, other than the social thing about marriage to your sister, because of the
perfect pair of healthy people who started, inbreeding problems did not occur.
Malleus: I understood that the first mention in Geneses of God creating Adam, and then
going back and including Eve in the creation was more of a writers style. When
I do a outline, I would hit the main topics as my heading, then go into more
detail further into my writing. Could that not explain it?
Ally'all: It was my mistake to put the comment in about Adam populating the Earth.
Please let's get back to the Femininity of God on this blog, and do the populating
of the Earth on another blog. I apologize, thank you. |
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| August 09, 2008 |
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Actually Tom, they are different stories. The order of creation in each is quite different.In the first account in Genesis (which many scholars date as the much older one of the two) it gives the order of creation as : Day 1:Sky,Earth, Light Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky Day 3: Plants Day 4: Sun, Moon, Stars Day 5: Sea monsters, fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies Day 6: Humans (at the same time) Day 7: Nothing While in the second gives the order of Creation as: (1) Earth and Heavens (2) Adam, the first man (3) Plants (4) Animals (5) Eve, the first woman (from the rib)
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| August 09, 2008 |
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See Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible #119 in the Hebrew and Chaldee dictionary. "Adam means to show blood in the face. ie "flush or turn rosy" in other words, ruddy complected. This is in no way against any color. this is God's Word, not mine. Gen l:31 God loves ALL that he has made and does not take any favorites. If you give closer study you will understand why the "Adam" in the Garden was made this way.
I hope no brethren of color would think that I would be bigoted. This, again is God's Word.
He did think of the "Ethnos" first after all. |
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| August 09, 2008 |
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| On the subject of man or woman being made first. It was all men and women that God was speaking to. Why else would he say, "Let us make Man (no gender) in our image." Notice, he included himself. Now, who could have been born in God's image? |
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| August 12, 2008 |
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One of the Hebrew names of The Lord is : EL-SHADDI "The All Sufficient God"
EL, = might, strenth,power.
SHADDI,= from Shad, Hebrew for breast. |
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| August 12, 2008 |
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Bro Tom, I like the way you think.."outside the box." I love that "Shad" part of God. I heard someone once say it can be transliterated as "the all sufficient udder/breast." Momma's milk has all the baby needs at that time in its growth.
This discussion is facinating. I have gradually come to think of "...male and female, made He them." as though woman was already in man. God had to open up his side so Adam could be complete. The same happened to Jesus, His side was opened so His bride could come forth,the body (singular) of Christ.
It's also interesting that Gen. 2:24 says, "...joined to his wife and they shall become ONE flesh." That doesn't sound very spiritual to me :). Paul says first comes the natural, then the spiritual, so I'm realizing that Gen. 2 was a picture or type of husband and wife being a reflection of Christ and His bride (Eph.5:31-32). It is no longer 2 flesh, but the two become one. Same in the Spirit, "he that is joined unto the Lord is ONE spirit." (I Cor. 6:17)
In Christ, there is no male or female (Gal.3:28)..which again speaks of ONE. What a wonderful, mysterious God we serve! I could go on & on, but I'll save some for later. |
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| August 12, 2008 |
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Thanks Charlie & Alice for the post, you shared some of your own outside of the box understanding!
I went to your profile page, your "piney woods' fellershipping looks inviting. Right now I think it's cool how we can fellership like this even not knowing each other previously. |
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| August 12, 2008 |
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In order for the case for God's femininity to be embraced, we have to have a good argument for it. So far, not much has been advanced (and the original three-step argument - (i) Eve was taken from Adam, (ii) God is a composite unity; (iii) Therefore, God must have a feminine component - is a textbook non-sequitur). And the subsequent case made is almost embarrassing (the anthropomorphisms of Psalms and Proverbs and then the birth of Jesus)! I note this, not to insult anyone, but rather out of fear - a fear that biblical exegesis here is not being taken seriously.
5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good, The defense laid out here is not passing the test thus far! |
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| August 12, 2008 |
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Thank you for the post S.L. but the reconditeness of your phraseology is much to copious for my diminutive understanding, please elucidate with greater simplicity in order to facilitate the desired communication.
Please forgive the "canned response", but I honestly do not know the "test" you refer to.
I only know what I perceive to be The Spirit of The Lord God Creator of Heaven and Earth opening the ears and eyes of my understanding to the femininity of God as supported in the collective books called the Bible. That's all, I can see it, if you can't, that's ok, we may, as I stated, have to agree that we disagree. |
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| August 12, 2008 |
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S L,
This is why I maintain that God's "feminine side" is not what He wanted it to be - so He created her.
In the next iteration of creation the Bride will be as much the "eternal Godhead" as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are today. As we speak, the Bride is just a concept. But in God's world She is already seated together with Jesus at the right hand of the Father.
Jesus loved His bride so much He couldn't live without her so He died for her. God craves His little bride. She is divine. The scripture calls us gods and the scripture cannot be broken (Jesus said). Will we be any less God in the hereafter? No we are already one with Him by His Spirit.
I am one with my wife. We are two separate people but the bible says we are one. I am one with Jesus. Jesus is one with God. We are all separate individuals but we are one.
My arm is one with my leg. My eyes are one with my ears. My toe doesn't want my wife more than the rest of my body wants her. I am a member of the body (the bride) of Christ. I want Him with every fiber of my being. I want to be held in His arms. I want to sit on His lap. I want to kiss His face. I want all of Him. I ache for His embrace. To hear his voice in my ear would make me cry tears of joy and ecstasy. But I'm just one of the members of the bride. All her members want Him like this.
He wants His bride like that too. He wants me at least like I want Him. He proved how much He loves His bride and members in particular. He needs His feminine side. And she needs Him.
Or so it seems to me,
Rob |
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| August 13, 2008 |
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| Do we believe that our God, who knew the end from the beginning would let something unforseen or unwanted to slip in, causing Him to go from Plan A to Plan B? (or C-Z?) |
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| August 13, 2008 |
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Rob, This is what concerns me in an age of uncritical thinking. You're approaching these New Testament passages with ideas you've already come to accept before seeing whether or not the Bible in fact teaches them. No first century Greek or Jewish Christian would have ever walked away from the "Bride of Christ" passages and thought that this was a cryptic reference to a Mrs. Jesus (some soft of corporate "feminine side" composed of the saints of God). Moreover, and perhaps the most heretical, is the claim, "The scripture calls us gods ... Will we be any less God in the hereafter?" 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. And to the extent that God "needs" His "feminine side" is logically incoherent. It's impossible for a maximally great Being (all-sufficient, necessary, all-good, all-loving, all-powerful, and ever-present) to be deficient. God created mankind out of love, not out of necessity! |
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| August 13, 2008 |
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Charlie, you may have been directing that question to Rob, but I know in my life, no matter how
many times I may change my mind, God still has me His #1 plan because He knows
my future.
S.L. If we are born of the Spirit of God, are we not, in the Spirit, gods of what The Almighty
has entrusted us with? gods as in rulers, authority over unclean spirits, etc.etc.
Your verse in context is accurate, to measure, or compare, there is no god beside
The Almighty God. But Jesus is seated at His right hand, we are son's of God,
and we are "in Christ" seated in heavenly places, joint heirs with Him are we not? |
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| August 13, 2008 |
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Well, Jesus was the one who called us gods. I'm only saying what He said. 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jesus was as big a heritic as I am, I guess.
God is all-sufficient but He is not self-sufficient. He's just like me. I am perfect (complete, all-sufficient) because I'm in Christ not because I'm self-sufficient. God and I are alot alike.
Nobody reads the bible without a preconceived idea. I don't. You don't. Nobody doesn't.
I believe God is good all the time so I read the bible that way. I used to think God was angry and needed to be appeased by something I did. When I thought that way then everything I read in the bible supported that "reality".
The bible says God is love. God created man out of love because He needed to love (i.e. be Himself). I am created in the image and likeness of God. I need God so it stands to reason God needs me.
When I open the bible, everything I read shouts back, "I love you with every fiber of my Being!" When I open the bible I'm reading a love letter from my King, my Hero, my Husband. He's coming back for me some day, I know this. He will never leave me or forsake me. He's not doing this out of duty; He's doing it because He can't NOT do it. He MUST do it.
He loves me like I love my wife. What would I not do for my wife? If it were in my power, I'd give her whatever she wished for: 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. I love my wife like Jesus loves me. If I were all-powerful, I would raise her to my status and place her in authority and importance above every power that I could think of. 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: When I open the bible, I read about the love that God has for me and it sounds alot like the love I have for my wife. 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; My wife completes me, and I her. It's almost like the relationship I have with God. 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Before God revealed to me just how much He loved me, I used to believe as you do - that this is a cold kind of "love". I used to think God loved me like I loved my cat. I would never do anything to hurt my cat and I would always feed and care for her.
The problem with that analogy, however, is that I would NEVER trade places with my cat. I would never turn my daughter into a cat so she could rescue that cat from certain doom. But when I read the bible, I find a God so ate up with me and my needs that He would trade places with me, take my punishment for me, die and go to hell for me, even. He would take on Himself all my sickness and heal all my diseases. My Husband promised me, "whatever I wish". The bible talks about a God who is not just doing His duty to His creation but a Being who loves me more, even, than I love my wife.
God, it seems, worships us. He does more for us than we could ever do in return for Him. It doesn't make sense UNLESS He needs us.
Look: If I say, "I love you", what does that mean? But if God says He loves you, what does THAT mean? God tells me He loves me a hundred times a day (probably more). I tell Him I love Him too. I love Him and I want Him. I figure He loves me and wants me at least as much as I do Him.
When I read the bible I read about an all-powerful Being who hurts inside His all-loving heart because He doesn't have a beautiful Bride who loves Him too. He's got angels to "worship" Him - big deal. He's got all the "things" He could ever use but He doesn't have a Bride. What more could a King need than His Queen? And that's where I come in!
I met a guy who told me once that God existed an eternity before He created man and that proved He doesn't need us. That's hogwash. God doesn't have a big divine calendar that He checks off the days saying, "Two billion years more and we'll create man!" That's rediculous. There is no time in eternity only life. Whether God existed an eternity before He created man has nothing to do with it. An eternity is a twinkling of an eye when there is no time. I believe that as soon as God decided He wanted a beautiful bride who loved Him, He got her. In an instant. In the twinkling of an eye.
We, however, are caught in the "manufacturing process" of time and space. God has His bride and we are His story of how He created her, lost her, and rescued her from certain doom. He never stopped loving her throughout the whole process. Besides Him, there is no god!
Rob |
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| August 13, 2008 |
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Charlie,
Maybe God sees the thing blow up but goes ahead and does it anyway. Who knows?
He created Adam to live in a lush paradise but I prefer to live indoors. Maybe I'm not living the life God wanted me to live :)
God's not willing that any should perish but the still perish, don't they? Just because it's the will of God doesn't mean it's going to happen the way He planned it.
God made rivers to flow to the sea, didn't He? But man can come along and build a dam, right? Man changes the natural flow of things all the time. Nature is full of Plan B's. If I can understand who God is by observing His creation, I've got to conclude that God always has a fall-back position.
That's my take on it, anyway...
Rob |
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| August 13, 2008 |
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Rob, may more of your passion for the "knowing the Father" rub off on more of us!
Thank you for your post! |
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| August 14, 2008 |
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Rob, I too admire your passion and I agree that NATURE is full of Plan Bs, etc. But is God's nature? Has there ever been a plan B with Him? I believe God has only ONE plan and only ONE nature. He has never deviated from that. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Actually, God is eternal, outside time and space so He's sees ALL things in the present.
Did God know and plan that Adam & Eve would choose the wrong tree? Was the Lamb slain before the foundations of the world? Was it fore-ordained that Judas would betray the Lord? Did not Jesus choose Judas, knowing beforehand what he would ultimately do?
NOTHING surprises God. It may surprise us. We do not see the BIG PICTURE. That is why we are called to live by faith. Faith is impossible without a relationship. Even faith COMES by hearing. Does that not indicate intimate relationship to hear God?
The bottom line is this: can we trust God when we don't understand, feel, see or hear God? Do we believe God is in full control? Is He soveriegn? If so, then is His will supreme? Who can override His will? Is God's will plan A? If so, can there be a plan B?
Ooops, I seem to have drifted away from the topic. So, does God have a feminine aspect that is revealed in scripture? If so, does that mean God is feminine?
How's that for getting us back on track? What say ye saints? |
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| August 14, 2008 |
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Charlie: That save was as awesome as some of those beach volleyball diving saves at the Olympics, but I think I've hurt my neck. :-) Just kidding, Thank you for the post and sharing the wisdom God has shared with you.
So If I understand your question, it's comparing a aspect of the nature of God.
To, God...is.....feminine, is it one, or the other?
Rob, the ball is in your court! |
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| August 14, 2008 |
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Tom & Rob..and all who have responded, I got us off track. Here's how I should have responded to Rob's comment.
Rob wrote: This is why I maintain that God's "feminine side" is not what He wanted it to be - so He created her.
In the next iteration of creation the Bride will be as much the "eternal Godhead" as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are today. As we speak, the Bride is just a concept. But in God's world She is already seated together with Jesus at the right hand of the Father.
I doubt anyone who has read the Bible would deny God often displays feminine characteristics. However, that does not mean God or the Spirit is female does it? Who can fully comprehend or explain triune? Who can explain the body of Christ, His bride? Bride seems to indicate female, but Christ's body is made up of many members (male & female?).
To me, God is more into ONE and bringing all His kids into ONE. This may be stretching it, but Jesus said that in the resurrection, there will be no marrying and giving in marriage (Matt. 22:30). In Christ NOW, in the Spirit NOW, there is no male or female Gal. 3:28). It doesn't appear to me (at this point in my life) that God is wanting to accentuate either gender but to fuse (process of fusion) ALL into one. Now I'm NOT saying we become God..NO!
Jesus prayed and purchased our oneness with Him, God, us, Them through His resurrection and transcendent life and has now INdwelt us with/by/through His Spirit, God's Spirit so that WE are now ONE spirit. (Jn. 17:20-26; Rom. 8:9-11; I Cor. 6:17, II Cor. 3:17-18; Eph. 4:4-6, &13) That's just to name a few scripture references of this oneness.
So, here's another question: in God's view (eternal view) is there male and female? |
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| August 14, 2008 |
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Charlie: Our God is Spirit, and our God Is One, we cannot understand totally the trinity
of our God, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that.
Because our God is Spirit, He is not limited to physical boundaries as we.
To the lonely single young male, The Holy Spirit will manifest as a "helpmate" for
him so he would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, The Spirit will help him walk in
Godliness, but the same Holy Spirit will manifest entirely different to be a
"helpmate" to a single mother working and worried about keeping her kids safe!
To the single Mom, The Holy Spirit may manifest in much more masculine ways.
Your Question: In God's eternal view, is there male and female?
If He is looking at me, He will see me I believe as I was known, as a male.
I will not loose my individuality, because that is what makes me so special to
Him, I'm the only me there ever was and will be!
Will I have a sex drive in heaven ? No, otherwise we need to be marrying up their.
As God looks at the saints corporately, no I don't think He will see us as
male and female, but as the body of Christ, a new creature. |
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| August 14, 2008 |
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Tom have you ever read any of the writings of St. Bernard of Clairvaux?
He touches a great deal on the "feminine" nature of the divine, especially in regard to its relation to the soul. Google his sermons on the Song of Songs. |
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| August 14, 2008 |
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Malleus: No, I never have read any of his works.
I tried to Goggle onto his sermons, but only found newsletters, chat rooms, and French, no sermons. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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| Malleus, with your obvious higher than average education, are you a Jesuit? |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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| Tom, your point is well taken. I love every manifestation of God. I fully agree God is spirit. I'm not sure in "spirit form" He can participate in the physical realm. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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| LOL..no Tom, a Franciscan. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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Shux, I didn't mean to send that..let alone TWICE!!
I just wanted to add this: the triune-ness of God and the eternal-ness of God make it impossible for us to come close to comprehending or grasping much of God in our understanding. Like you said, the PERSONAL side of God, the intimate relationship side, the Jesus, God manifested in the flesh side is joy unspeakable and full of glory! It is precious all the way down to each of the hairs on our head, finger prints and each unique DNA code.
I believe this is the realm God has invited us to partake of. We are partakers of the divine nature (II Pet. 1:4) and there is no limit to how God expresses Himself/herself in that. He wants us to EXPERIENCE Him and that takes in all of human nature, male, female - all creation actually.
It sure is fun though to soar out a little beyond, to touch the hem of His eternal spirit "garment." I love this discussion in all these realms.
BTW, Malleus I enjoy your historical input..thanks |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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I have been off the web for a few days and am sorry I missed some of the subject. I do think that because women do more in the Church by far. Our Father must have known we men needed someone to show us how its done.
I am aware that it is God's will that all be born of a woman. John 3:5 tells us this- Unless man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Thou most believe that Jesus said we must be "born again".But in the manuscripts he tells us , "Except a man be born from ABOVE" John 3:3
This has to refer to the Nephilim, or "Giants" of Gen 6 who were the progeny of the fallen angles who attempted to stop the line of Jesus. The Chapter 6:4 reads There were Nephilum in the earth in those days (ie) in the days of Noah". you can read of them in many places such as Gen 14:5 as they were known as "Raphaim" and "Emin" Isiah called them the "Deceased- Is 26:14
They were the real reason for the flood as only Noah and his family did not mix with them. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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Da Feller: I did not want to infer any physical manifestation of God, other than that promised
in the Word, that we would receive a "Helpmate" to help us, and each one is needing
different help than the other, so it would stand to reason the manifestation,
or leading, or the still small voice speaking to us would be different for each person.
All within the parameters of the Word of God.
I'm with you on the excitement that getting into "the deeper" end of the "pool" brings.
Thanks for sharing. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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| Golden: Thanks for your post. Question, wasn't what Jesus was referring to was what's happening in the spirit realm, and not physical. That's what was stumping Nicodemus, he was thinking physical realm and not making the connection. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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Malleus : I'm glad you got a LOL at it. I'm not that knowledgeable, so I could have been insulting you without knowing it,( I hope that was not the case).
If you have some Google tips, or steps for me to follow, I'll try finding some of those sermons. |
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| August 15, 2008 |
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Your question Tom, just reminded me of an old ecclesiastical joke: "What are the two things that God cannot know? What a Jesuit is thinking and how man Franciscan orders there really are."
Jesuits are highly educated so no, I didn't take it as an offense.
I will find some links and post them here.
Pax et Bonuum
MD |
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| August 16, 2008 |
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| Malleus: I'm relieved, I do sometimes stick my proverbial foot in my mouth. I am finding that with the practice of reconciling things, I'm getting better with the latter part. |
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| August 19, 2008 |
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Regarding the "Trinity": I am "one" with my wife. Are we the same person? Heck no. The Son is "one" with the Father and the Spirit. Are they the same person? Heck no. Am I talking about polytheism? In a sense.
There us only one God because God is one. The three agree in one but they are still three distinct persons.
Sexlessness: 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Okay. We won't be having sex with each other. Why? Sex is needed for reproduction. The bride won't be replacing dead cells with living ones because there is no death or decay. Once she's finished - that's it. According to the scriptures, it seems to take a certain number of Jews and a certain number of Gentiles to make this bride thing.
If I'm not mistaken, the physical world is a shadow of the real thing, which is the spiritual world. If the relationship the church has with her Jesus is like that between a husband and wife, then I gotta think that the ecstasy we experience as the bride will make physical sex pale in comparison.
Far from being "sexless", we will experience real spiritual oneness with the King of kings. I have a feeling it's going to feel GREAT!
Here's a few interesting scriptures (in no particular order) that make me think I'm Jesus' little bride: 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. If the scriptures are any indication, God seems to have a concept of "feminine". I personally believe that the only reason He created heaven and earth was to make for Himself a beautiful little bride who could share His abundant life with Him. Think of what He has done in terms of a man wooing His lover. No wonder the earth and sky are so beautiful. He's just trying to turn a girl's head. Maybe only those whose heads are turned by His creation are truly His girl and the rest not...
Jesus has given us an engagement ring of sorts. Ephesians says it this way: 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. I think Jesus wants a little bride who worships the ground He walks on. Why not? If I were God, I would want that very thing myself. Wouldn't you?
Rob |
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| August 19, 2008 |
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I enjoyed this and would love to hear more of
what you have to say on the subject. I have to
agree that God the Father has a bit of the
Mothering side as well.
Nice to meet you ~ Pasha
91:4 He will cover thee with his pinions, And under his wings shalt thou take refuge: His truth is a shield and a buckler.
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| August 21, 2008 |
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Rob: I like what your sayin, it makes sense to me. Thanks for the post.
Pasha: Nice to meet you also, thank you for the post, as I wrote earlier in the Blog, it may not take to long to exhaust my knowledge on this subject, without getting off track onto another subject. As the Holy Ghost inspires more, more will be written.
To ALL: I had made a comment to "Da Feller" above about this subject is exiting because it's "getting into the deeper end of the pool". After re-reading that, I want to say I'm not thinking I'm getting into "deeper" Christian doctrine with this. As I started in the Blog by saying this subject is not "one of the Majors" to major on, it won't get anyone into Heaven. I am saying that it is exiting talking about our Heavenly Father with a subject matter that seems to be all around us, through-out scripture, but never "thought", or, at least, I've never caught the teaching. |
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| August 22, 2008 |
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Tom, what excited me was finding another soul that likes to soar out beyond the box a little. I'm certainly not interested in probing deeper into doctrine of a female God! At one point, I felt like I might be dominated the discussion, so I backed off. It was a lot of fun to me.
Thanks for the ride :)
charlie |
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| August 23, 2008 |
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Charlie: Thank you for not taking the comment I made as a one of pride, I did not intend it to be.I didn't feel you were dominating the discussion either. I was getting to the extent of my understanding of the subject, so your fresh comments were appreciated. I guess we are more than brothers in the Lord, but kindred souls in our study of our Great God also.
Grace and Peace to you and yours. |
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