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| Where Is God When I'm Hurting? |
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Have you ever struggled with this question? Do the usual answers bring you no comfort? A few weeks ago one of my students, 32 years old, married with 2 young children, was diagnosed with leukemia and began aggressive chemotherapy treatments. Another shared with me his unfathomable story of being in Fallujah and witnessing the deaths of many of his friends. A 20-year-old student sat in my office last week crying over losing his beloved dog. Another student is blogging poems mourning her recent miscarriage. Scattered MyChurch blogs are windows to invisible people who are lonely and searching for direction. Last week the nation was stung by the news of the senseless loss of 33 human lives at Virginia Tech. Where is the justice? Why do bad things happen to good people? Where is God when life isn't fair? Where is God when we're hurting? First, let's establish that God is omnipotent. All things are within His power. He is the God who created the universe out of nothing, parted the Red Sea for the Israelites to cross on dry land, gave sight to the blind, and raised the dead to life. All power belongs to Him. God does not choose, however, to control all the details of our earthly existence. He created us with free will to make our own choices, even knowing that our choices would quickly lead to an imperfect world. This, however, He saw as preferable to moving us around as chess pieces under His control. There is a popular theology that responds to every situation, "It's God's will. Everything happens for a reason. There's no such thing as a coincidence." I don't buy into that theology. God knows before we are born everything that will happen in our lives, because He is omniscient. He knows all. But that does not mean that He causes everything. I do not believe that all the natural disasters, all the starvation, all the terminal and debilitating diseases, all the child abuse, every hangnail, etc. are a part of God's master plan. Although I acknowledge that He may surely step in whenever He wants, I suspect that most of the bad things that happen on this earth just happen (bad human choices, natural consequences, accidents . . .) Does He cause them? Not usually. Does He stop them? Not usually (although I suspect much more than we are aware, and He certainly hears our prayers). Just as I cannot see God as a lone chess player, planning every decision of our lives, neither can I see Him as a clockmaker, who created the world, wound it up, and then just stepped back to watch it run by itself. (This is the deists' view of God.) Although I do not believe God controls all the details of our lives, I do believe He cares about them. Where is He when we are hurting? Where are we when our children are hurting? He is right beside us, holding us up, sustaining us through our greatest sufferings, loving and caring for us like no other. Why does He not heal all the sick, raise all the dead, stop all the earthquakes, and right all the injustices of the world? That is the most difficult part for us to understand, as we are trying to understand with our finite minds the workings of an infinite God. The Bible says that now we see through a glass dimly, but later we will understand fully (1 Cor. 13:12). This has been beautifully illustrated as a great tapestry made by God. When we look up, we see all the knots and hanging threads, and cannot make out any pattern, but we are seeing only the bottom side of the tapestry. Let me try to illustrate this another way. When my nephew Charlie finished kindergarten, he seriously announced to the family that he would not be going to first grade, because he had learned everything he needed to know. We laugh at that, because it's cute and innocent, but are we not all exactly like Charlie? After having learned the alphabet and some basic phonetics and arithmetic, Charlie felt he had a good enough grasp on everything that he knew school to be. He had no concept of the history, literature, cultures, or geometry he was lacking, because his level of knowledge was not ready for them. Should he be reminded in a few years of his family announcement, he too will laugh at it. However, I suspect that every step of the way, although he can look back and see where he has come, he will still be unable to see the knowledge he lacks. He will probably think he knows all he needs to know after 7th grade and after high school and after college, and maybe even after a PhD . . . Why? Because until we have already learned something we are unable to grasp its depth. I surmise that, just like Charlie after kindergarten, we have not even begun to grasp the plan God has for the lives of His children. We can only see through the number of years we have walked on this earth, maybe 5, maybe 20, maybe 60 - all equally minuscule when compared to the eternity that God has planned for us. After a few short years on earth, years often filled with struggle and pain, His plan is that we will spend all of eternity in His presence, and none of these earthly struggles will have any ultimate significance, except perhaps how we used them to grow closer to Him. Despite how difficult life gets, Romans 8:28 promises us that God can bring something good out of even the worst of circumstances, if we turn it over to Him. The promise doesn't say the good will outweigh the bad, or that the purpose of the bad is so there can be good - just that good can come from all situations if our lives are given to the Lord. As long as there is life on earth, there will be pain and suffering. As long as there is life on earth, there will be injustices. We have no promise of a fair life. What we do have is a promise that God will never leave us or forsake us, that He will always be with us, even to the end of the age (Heb. 13:5; Matt. 28:20). And in our finite understanding, although we cannot fully understand why He does not step in and stop our suffering, we can see that what seems to matter in these few years we spend on earth is the relationship we develop with Him. Everything else we will have to learn "after kindergarten." 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.
8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Note added 6/1/07: See this blog for a good book to read when going through any size storm of life.
END OF BLOG
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Hi Kathy,I can relate to "Where is God When You are Hurting". It seems we want to be real close to God when we are hurting and then we think we can handle things when things are going good. Enjoyed the blog. See you Sunday! Hazel |
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| Someone here on mychurch in a blog actually differentiated between God's perfect will (what He desires, which flows from His perfect nature) and God's perfect plan, which takes into account the corruption of the world and all the crazy choices we make along the way. God doesn't desire the catastrophies and tragedies, but He uses them for good. I'll never forget that lesson, it made a lot of sense. ~mike |
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Kathy, I've found a wonderful young woman who seems to often write about death and sadness. She seems to draw people who are suffering from grief. It almost sounds like your last week. I'm going to post her site for you, read Rachel's tears, I'll send a note later to tell you my part of the Rachel's Tears story. http://jenschroedel.com/category/essays/ Dennis |
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Great blog, Kathy. We usually don't look for God until we are hurting. Where is God when we are hurting? The same place He is when we are not. He is with us always as you stated in Heb 13:5 And Matt 28:20. Mike |
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Kathy |
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April 27, 2007 at 2:18pm |
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Simple but profound, Faithrock. God is with us. There is no greater comfort! You are a voice of calm wisdom! Mike, thank you for adding your perspective. Many find that a helpful theology. I always appreciate hearing from you! Dennis, thanks for the link! Jen is a talented writer with a depth of material from which to draw. I read Rachel's Tears and look forward to hearing your part of the story. Hazel, I love it when I hear from an Enonite!!!!!! Thank you for reading my blog and leaving your comment!!!!!! |
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Kathy, Great job. I enjoyed reading it. Gives me pause to ponder... First thought...you said "Why does He not heal all the sick, raise all the dead, stop all the earthquakes, and right all the injustices of the world? " I think the answer is He does or He will...the difficulty for us is that we have this thing called "time" that we live in, and it is such a short period of time. Still pondering... |
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This seems to me the most clearly stated explanation I have ever heard. It is such a blessing to me - I am sharing it with some family and friends. RA |
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Well, the story of Rachel...I read this story in Boundless and was overwellmed. It touched me at a very deep place in my soul, so being the good father that i am I forwarded it to my oldest daughter. I was talking to her the next day and she said, "dad do you know who Rachel is?" It turns out that Rachel was the daughter of an old friend, I had bought the house Rachel was born in, and baptised in from her dad. i knew of the incident of her death, we all had been praying for her father, he was devastated by the accident, and his part in the accident. Then he co-celebrated the funeral. To then find all these linkages with her, her family, and then Jenny S. was one of those times when God used an incident to drill a very, veruy deep hole into my heart. This was one of those times where tears were not enough, it needed a change of heart to even come close to fathoming the pain I felt. It was also one of the defining moments where God prepared me for my son's injury that was months off, but even back then, God was preparing a soft place in my heart so that I could trust Him when I got that late night phone call to tell me they had saved his life, and were probably going to save his arm. I am a strong believer in God's preperation, if I hadn;t run across this article in Boundless I would not have been as prepared as God wanted me to be for my own trials. God is so very, very good! Dennis |
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Where is God when I am hurting? God is closer than the air I breath! The problem is not in where God is, but where we are. I can get so overwhelm with pain and hurt to the point of losing sight of Him, but then His sweet Spirit talk to my soul and I remember His promises and then I know that somehow everything will be ok. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever... but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." (John 14:16-18) |
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Kathy, thank you for another AWESOME blog!!! I'm thinking along the lines of what DC proposed and is still pondering :-). "God is a God who heals. The Greek word that means "I save" also means "I heal." God is concerned not just about our spiritual salvation, but also about our whole being. One day we shall all have a new perfect body."* 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. *Nicky Gumbel's book "Questions of Life" (study guide for Alpha - a practical introduction to the Christian Faith), page 211. |
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Kathy this is a great blog! I love to read of folks who question, wonder and ponder..makes me feel right at home :). I said that to raise this question: does Rom 8:28 say anything about us submitting? It says to those who love the Lord and are called according to HIS purpose. So now I wondering and asking ... "whose good does all this work toward?" I used to think MINE, and/or all those called, but what if it means HIS GOOD for HIS purpose? What if we never see the "good" of it in our life? Would we still love Him and submit to Him? Just like DC..sittin' here pondering... |
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Kathy |
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April 28, 2007 at 12:19pm |
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Voice, I am with you! Time is one of those concepts that our finite minds have trouble escaping, even in our imaginations, but God is not bound by time, which, as you say, may be part of the explanation why we can't understand His allowing us to suffer. To Him there is no difference between one day and a thousand years, because He is not bound by hours or days or centuries. He has the full picture, and very likely has answered much of our suffering. We just don't know it yet. (If I am not on your page, please come back and tell us more!) Bestemor, that is my hope and prayer for this blog, that it will bring comfort to some who need it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for sharing the blog with those you care about! Dennis, what a beautiful picture of God obviously orchestrating events in your life. Thank you for sharing this story, as my blog is incomplete without an emphasis that, although He does not orchestrate everything, He certainly is active in our lives. I think we would be totally amazed if we could see the many ways His hand is at work in our lives! Yes, Lourdes, I am with you. God does not forsake us. We just don't always see His hand. His Spirit is ever with us! Mary Ann, thank you for your kindness and for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you also. God is definitely a God who heals, although many times He allows diseases to take their course and death to take our bodies. As you say, though, ultimately all His children will be healed, and all our suffering will be over and insignificant! Charlie, thank you so much for adding your ponderings! I think I am with you on Romans 8:28! It promises us that He will bring good from the bad, but I do not see that being necessarily "my good." "Good," in my opinion, means the ultimate good, God's good, which, for those who truly love Him, would be our good too, would it not? We want what is good for His kingdom, because we are on His team. As I said to Voice, if I have put words into your mouth, please come back and say more. Your thoughts add a lot to this discussion! |
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Kathy |
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April 28, 2007 at 7:42pm |
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Thanks, Sumiteer. (You've changed your name!) This does look like an interesting book, but I am way behind on my reading and can't add another book to the stack! It would be interesting to hear your take on what it has to say to the issues in this discussion! God bless you! |
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Kathy, A few more thoughts after further ponderings here... First, I think you have a very healthy view of Romans 8:28. I know we like to use that scripture as a light to guide us through rough times....and it should be...however, you make a good point..."Despite how difficult life gets, Romans 8:28 promises us that God can bring something good out of even the worst of circumstances, if we turn it over to Him. The promise doesn't say the good will outweigh the bad, or that the purpose of the bad is so there can be good - just that good can come from all situations if our lives are given to the Lord"...I also agree with the further discussion that the "good" is God's good and not ours. What I am still pondering, from my first read, is the idea that suffering builds patience...and the only reason we need patience is because we are in this world where time matters...why would God build in us something that He doesn't need since He is not bound by time...this, I don't understand... |
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though out my child hood i suffered every few months i was breaking my legs. but i always found comfort in prayer. i come from a very abusive family. and instead of sulking and feeling sorry for my self when i would get hurt i figured it was gods will during the time i was in the children's hospital which was 100 miles from my home town. even though i was in physical pain i found peace there was no yelling i didn't have to put up with my dad getting drunk and beating my mom. the nurses became my family. each time i was in the hospital my stay was any where from 3 months to 6 months. there was one nurse named fanny who would come in every night and read me a bible story. and she prayed for me every day. as i got older and more bad things seem to happen i would turn to the bible for comfort. and i have figured out that we must endure what ever comes into our lives. it is gods will its not to break us but to make us strong. i don't think god is gonna hand out free passes to heaven we have to earn them. even gods chosen lived through hard times he sure didn't make their lives easy. we just have to not let our faith be shaken because in the end we will have a blessed reward waiting for us. great blog |
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why would God build in us something that He doesn't need since He is not bound by time...this, I don't understand... Dc, Does God build these things in us for Him, or for us? He may not be bound by time, but we exist in time. I am finding that God does very little for Himself, most everything that occurs is for our benefit. The other thought that occurs involves Gods redemption of all things. Gregory the Theologian said, "what is not assumed is not healed", I think that God has enveloped all things in His redemptive act, now some things refuse to stay under that umbrella, there is still action of sin, death and the devil, but still, I think more is healed than we know, including time. Do you think that there is also another thing at work in these struggles? I am wondering how much of these happenings involve God's inclusiveness of us in the redemptive process? He did call us to be prophets, priests, and kings. He called us to be Christs hands and feet, could it be that He leaves us to be Romans 8:29 to people in the world? 8:28 And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, `even' to them that are called according to `his' purpose. 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained `to be' conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: I mean, we are being called to be conformed to the image of the Son who gave himself up for the life of the world. If that is the case we are distincly called to love, minister healing, grow people in all those things that cause them to come into the "fullness of Christ". I stumbled on Psalm 30 when I was thinking about this... 30:4 Sing praise unto Jehovah, O ye saints of his, And give thanks to his holy memorial `name'. 30:5 For his anger is but for a moment; His favor is for a life-time: Weeping may tarry for the night, But joy `cometh' in the morning. 30:6 As for me, I said in my prosperity, I shall never be moved. Maybe we have to pass along this "prosperity" to those who are still hurting, a prosperity of God's indwelling, of God's redemptive love, we need to "assume" those things if at all possible. Do I make sense, does that open up any doors of thought? Denniis |
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Dennis, Sure does open doors of thought...if I implied that He was doing a work in me for Him, I was incorrect....my thought is more about the scriptures you present where His promise to me is to conform me more and more into His image...as I was created before the fall...yet as you point out God does a redemptive work in us...which takes time (in my case, sometimes years) not because of His shortcomings, but because of mine. I am beginning to see a bit more clearly through this dim glass I have. Thanks! |
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Kathy |
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April 29, 2007 at 11:22am |
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Although my utmost desire in writing this blog is to offer comfort to the hurting, I do also enjoy a good theological discussion. It is a part of my educational training and my personal passion for learning and understanding. Theology, however, is man's attempt to explain the things the God, and I am certain that all our theologies will turn out to be less than perfect. Thankfully, we can disagree on many theological issues and still be brothers and sisters in Christ, saved by grace, because we agree of the basic tenets of the faith and have placed our trust in Jesus. My respect and love for you are no less if your theology is not like mine, and I do not claim to have all the questions of the universe figured out. That said, to assert that God does not orchestrate everything that happens to us does not logically lead to the assertion that He orchestrates nothing. God is very active in and around our lives. He is omnipresent and always at work. He hears our prayers and answers them as He deems best, perhaps not unlike our responses to our children's requests. Some requests we grant, some requests we tuck away until Christmas, and some of them we choose not to grant because we understand beyond the child's ability to understand. Likewise, there is much that we plan in our children's lives, but much that is left to hope and prayer. United, thank you for sharing your personal story, which may be a perfect illustration of what I'm saying in this blog. I dont' believe God chose to put you into an abusive home, but I believe He chose to protect and hold you. What a gift to you! and He used nurse Fanny as His vessel. Is she still living? Did you ever reconnect with her as an adult? She would be blessed to hear your story! It seems that you have had more than your fair share of pain, and you seem to have been strengthened by the challenges. As you have said, there will be a time when all our struggles will end. And yes, Paul urges us to work out our salvation, although it is not the works that saves us, but the Grace of our Lord Jesus. I believe that if we are totally committed to Him, we cannot help but work, not out of obligation, but out of our love and gratitude for Him. Be blessed, my friend! Voice, since I don't believe God causes most of our suffering, I also do not believe that all our suffering has a purpose, including patience. Yes, patience is one of many "goods" that can come out the bad, just as are strength, faith, relationships, etc., although in some lives, adversity reaps just the opposite reactions. This, Charlie, is perhaps the "submission" of Romans 8:28. Not that we have to submit for God to bring good out of bad, but that our submission allows the good to take root in our own lives, maybe through stregthening our character (like Voice's patience), or maybe through being able to recognize God's work around us through the situation. You have both (and Dennis) given me more to ponder, and my response here is meant as dialogue amidst my pondering. I appreciate your thought-provoking questions, and invite your further dialogue. I enjoy being challenged and stretched. Dennis, can you say more on your last statement? |
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| Maybe we have to pass along this "prosperity" to those who are still hurting, prosperity of God's indwelling, of God's redemptive love, we need to "assume" those things if at all possible.I myself am trying to work through what I said also, you know how we can say things that are more than we understand? I am trying to tie together Gregory's statement about "what is not assumed" with David's Psalm 30. For some reason there is a commonality. David, through his own sin, had lost his son, yet here he is, dedicating a house to God, and talking about God's goodness. How could he have received such a revelation? He almost chastises God in places,"What profit is in my blood, in going down to the pit? Shall the dust praise You? Shall it tell of Your truth?" He shows frustration at God, kind of arrogant from the one who had sinned! Then at the end of the Psalm he says,” You have turned my mourning into dancing for me; You have torn off my sackcloth, and have clothed me with gladness, so that my glory may sing praise to You, and not be silent. O Jehovah my God, I will give thanks to You forever. David talks of never being moved, in his prosperity, yet then putting on sackcloth and mourning the loss of the son that was “taken” as a result of David’s own sin. I think we now are in a time of prosperity that is based on Christ’s actions on the cross. He, Christ, assumed all that is human, including our sorrow, our failures, even our pain. “he was a man of sorrows”, in assuming those things, He also provided us with the ability to assume those things of His, and He said we would do even greater things than Him. I guess I can narrow this down quickly by saying, if Christ lives in us then we can bring the love he has placed in us to bear in a redemptive fashion to those who hurt. We can, like Christ, assume the pain or suffering to bring healing to some aspect of the situation. We can seldom stop the pain, or remove the sorrow, but we can walk alongside, and sometimes even carry those who hurt. Coming back to Rachel’s Tears, Jenny sat alongside her friend, and through her compassion, brought healing. She was just there. I often have considered Mother Teresa and her work, most of it was just being there for those who hurt. I also think that this overlaps with the “sleeping bag” blog, to go down and minister in this way is showing the best of what Christ is about, doing something that brings life, restoring a foundation that was swept away. Isn’t grieving with someone, or standing with them through their pain, another way of restoring a foundation that was washed away. I’m sorry if I haven’t been a clear as I want, I’m still trying to understand how to bring these things to bear on my own healing. It seems that we too often flow through the daily struggles of life without realizing how much grief we have yet to recover from. This blog has opened up a few scars that I thought had already healed, I think maybe there is more work to do. So to conclude a long ramble, I think that we want God’s redemption to preclude pain and suffering, but I think maybe, even more so, we need to know what to do after pain or suffering has occurred. Here is where David is a key, “joy comes in the morning”, eventually, grief falls away, pain subsides, and healing has a place to rest. Questions that have no real good answers slowly drift into the distance, and our “joy” is restored. In the end, our foundations are either built on rock or sand, circumstances just reveal where they were built.Kathy, thanks so much for letting me ramble and think out loud, I really didn’t know that some of this needed healing, I guess I know more about what God will be doing in the weeks ahead!Dennis |
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Kathy |
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April 29, 2007 at 7:11pm |
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| Dennis, I will respond to you privately, and I commit to praying for you. May God's grace, comfort, peace, and healing wash over you! |
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| that is the best blog ever |
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Kathy, going to say somethings here that are not fully digested yet...I have learned to not think too much about "cause" of suffering. I always lose in the theological debate about whether God "causes" or "allows" suffering. In some cases, He mandates it - as with Christ's suffering on the cross. Scripture talks about "just" suffering or "suffering for the Gospel". This is expected and walking through that suffering builds character. When we come across a suffering that doesn't make sense and we can't tie it to the furthering of God's kingdom, then we have to look further. In many cases, I contend that type of suffering, as in all types, is a result of our fallen world. My son has autism. Is it because his father sinned or his father's father? Well, yes, and it is a result of sin in the world period. I am no more to blame than God is for creating a world where sin exists. That, by no means, gives me the right to just accept it as is. Because I have been given the gift of the Holy Spirit, I take my place in the government that is on His shoulders and exercise the authority given to me through Him. I don't always see the results I want, but I have to know that God is in control - since the government is on His shoulders, and the results are what He wants. Of course, we are always balancing that thing called "time" into the equation, too. As with your comments, I am not "defending" a position. Rather, I am pondering openly as if we were sitting around a picnic table in the garden... |
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Kathy |
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May 02, 2007 at 8:12pm |
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Voice, you were possibly tbe first MyChurch member that caught my attention when I joined here, and my respect for you has continued to grow as I have gotten to know you better. When we disagree on a few details, I listen intently to what you have to say, because I know it is well thought out and spiritually sound. Your thoughts often stretch mine into areas I haven't considered, and I always enjoy hearing from you! I agree with you that there seems to be no all-encompassing answer here. Yes, there are times when God does mandate suffering, just asa there are times when He heals or even raises the dead. Thus, I was careful in this blog to avoid absolutes. I would never discount prayer. Although we don't completely understand the workings of prayer, we have plenty of assurances that we are to be ever praying, and although prayer does not obligate God to give us everything we ask for, there is no shortage of evidence that He often does. Based directly on how much faith we have? I don't think directly so, except in the sense that the stronger out faith, the closer in unison we are with God, thus praying His will, not ours. And then, as you say, there is time, which surely obscures our spiritual vision. Thank you, Voice, for challenging my thoughts! Ashley, thank you for giving me a smile!!! |
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Kathy, you are too kind and I truly appreciate your words here. I truly like the way you position your thoughts - you give room for growth and by doing so, both of us grow. Additionally, I am the type of person that thinks about things...it takes me a while to process things...I don't take hints...God knows He has to hit me with a 2X4 to get my attention sometimes...I can't help but think...it is one of the reasons I like these blogs. I can read them, think about it, come back, read again, and then comment. I give you that background only because I have been thinking about prayer a lot lately. I pray, as most of us do. I wish I could say I pray continuously, but I don't. I pray for people all the time, though. One thing I have found is that the prayer most oftened answered is the one to change my heart. Almost like Jesus in the Garden...not my will, but Yours...and it isn't a prayer of surrender. Rather it is a prayer of war. Girding oneself up to stand against the gates of hell. So, when I pray for you, I pray that you will see God's hand at work in your life and He will change your heart to be more like His. How does that play in the "suffering"? Well, I agree with you that sometimes God heals. In those times I want to know His heart and be there praying for the healing. In other times, God doesn't. I want to know His heart there, too. When I don't know His heart, then I pray for changes to be made in my heart (or the one for whom I am praying). One final thought for the night...why is it that when He lays us down in green pastures to restore our souls, it is often in times of dire need? My greatest periods of growth have been in the valley where the soil is fertile and not on the mountaintop where the view is majestic. |
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Kathy |
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May 04, 2007 at 6:37pm |
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Voice, thank you again for your comments. I like your observation about prayer. I too have found that it is the times I am praying with the Holy Spirit's leading that my prayers are most answered. And there are certain prayers that we can depend on always being in His will, like, as you say, praying that my heart and/or the heart of another will become more like God's. This prayer does not assume that we understand all the answers, but that we put our faith in God, who does. I appreciate this prayer for me, Voice. Thank you! On your last thought: I think that may be similar to the question, Why is it that when I lose something, it's always in the last place I look? Just as we stop searching for something when we find it, it seems that, as Hazel said, we start searching for God as a last resort after trying everything else at our disposal. I too find that my greatest periods of spiritual growth have been in the valley, but then the mountaintop becomes so much more beautiful! For us both, Voice: May God guide our hearts closer to His! |
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I listened to a podcast from Family Life Today, it was am imterview with William Hendricks and talked about his book "The Light That Never Dies". It's about the last days of his wife Nancy's life. It so reminded me of this conversation, because he delt with many of these issues. It's on iTunes as a podcast. One of the things he talked about hit me really hard, he talked about holding his wife in his arms as she took her last breathes. He could only describe it as a "Holy Moment". I think that this phrase many times reflects a Christians response to a tragic moment, as opposed to the worlds. I'm not saying these moments don't have true pain in them, but they are Holy Moments. It got me to thinking of those times when God made me aware that something that was fearful or tragic was especially clear as a Holy Moment. the two that come instantly are when I was called that my son was injured in Iraq, and when I got divorced. Both of them became, after the shock wore off, moments when I just knew God was at work, they were not moments of satanic degradation, but Holy Moments. Times when I knew that God was working to restore, even in the midst of a storm. Dennis |
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Kathy, I totally agree with you about your "last resort" comment. Yet there is a part of me that has been through suffering when I knew I was walking with God. It was almost like He was taking me to that valley for a purpose...oh, and trust me, I have always learned more about Him and His heart in the valley. This came to mind tonight when I read Dennis' comment. When he got the call about his son, Dennis fell clear into the valley - good news is that the grass is soft. Sometimes I can really understand David when he describes how God is with him in the battle and with him in the quiet. Oh, my heart cries out to understand His heart, His ways. How long oh Lord? How long until the tears of sadness are gone and only tears of joy are known? How long oh Lord? Until then, I will praise Him in the storm. Thank you Kathy for this blog. It continues to wrestle within me. Dennis thanks for your thoughts too. It brought me a different perspective. |
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Kathy |
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May 09, 2007 at 11:20am |
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Dennis and Voice, Your depth both invigorates and challenges me. Although I would never say to another person that I know exactly how they feel, I think I know the kind of experience you are describing. I remember a moment during my freshman year of college when, due to outside circumstances, I truly wished not to live. (I was not suicidal. I just would have considered it a favor from God if I didn't wake up the next morning.) Amidst that experience, I was overcome with God's presence in the most peaceful and reassuring way, and it was then that I first began to understood what it meant to die to self and live for Christ. He intervened in my moment of darkness and revealed a part of His plan to me. A Holy Moment. And the grass was soft. I Will Praise You in this Storm by Casting Crowns: one of the greatest of all contemporary songs! (Listen from my profile page) Grace and Peace to you both! |
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nancy |
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May 11, 2007 at 8:42am |
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| I believe that god does things for a reason. God does not give us any more than we can handle. |
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Kathy |
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May 11, 2007 at 10:34am |
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| Although I don't believe God "does" all the things He gets blamed for doing, I certainly agree with you, Nancy, that what He "does" is never random. He is working out His master plan. Thank you for leaving a comment! God bless you, Nancy! |
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| Kathy, just now I reread this blog, having been lead here via a link in another blog ("we believe weirdly" I think), and I must say, extremely on target! There is a lot of "meat" here. BTW, I was honored to be one of the first to star it! :-) ~mike |
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Craig |
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May 20, 2007 at 5:50pm |
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| Reminds me of a blog posted a few months ago called' "Is God in control". |
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Kathy and Nancy...a thought that I had this morning...since we can't see the beginning from the end, who is to say that what we are going through is truly suffering? I know it is hard to go through it. I know it is something we can't understand...which is why I ask the question. For example, if you knew that the result of your suffering for a period in your life would be a city, country, or people's group turning to the Lord, would that make it any different? I am not sure that it would make it any less painful, but I know when I was working out for running marathons the training was a lot of "suffering", but in the end I enjoyed the results.
Can't quite put the entire thought togther in words, so bear with me...that is as close to it as I can get... |
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Kathy |
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May 21, 2007 at 10:13am |
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Mike, thanks! :)
Craig, do you have a link to that blog?
Voice, that's a great question, one of those that leads to more and more questions, until we can finally see from the other side! I love the depth of your pondering! I think it would make a difference if we knew there was purpose for our pain, and perhaps that's one reason so many find comfort in the "Everything happens for a reason" theology. Although I don't believe everything in this life happens for a purpose, I definitely believe that all our earthly suffering will ultimately be insignificant and not worth remembering, once we cross over into eternity with God.
In another blog I compared the the significance of this life once we get to heaven, to the significance of our life in the womb now that we are outside it. The womb nurtured us for a short while, but netiher do we long for it nor remember our time there. It brought us to where we are, but it is so foreign to this life and was for such a short time in comparison, that we don't even think on it.
One of my very special students was killed in a motorcycle accident this weekend. I read this blog for my own comfort today! 22 years old, just graduated from college. God, comfort and embrace Alex's family! |
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Hello!
I continually enjoy your entries, and think I'll be sending others to do the same. :)
I AM SO SICK of hearing the line, "everything happens for a reason" said blithely and often by people emotionally removed from the circumstances. I think your articulation will do nicely if, I were only capable of actually repeating it fluidly... instead, I'll provide a link! lol |
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Kathy |
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June 09, 2007 at 1:12pm |
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| Hi Mary Beth! Thank you for your encouraging words! |
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Kathy |
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July 22, 2007 at 4:19pm |
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I am currently proof/editing a manuscript of a most intriguing soon to be published book about Helen Barrett Montgomery (1861-1934), a remarkable and influential figure of the woman's missionary movement and one time president of the Northern Baptist Convention. I ran into this quote, which immediately reminded me of voice_in_dc's comments here and elsewhere about God not being confined to time. These are her words at age 15:
The preacher showed how God's immutability must be, to correspond to his other attributes, how He knew no such thing as time was of God, how He filled all duration as well as space. The thought that the longest age - in fact the world and all its affairs - shrink into a mere point in the awfulness of his immensity, is grand. My mind moves to view this Being and revels in following a little way these incomprehensibly great thoughts, but my heart loves better to think of Him as the sorrowing Man of Nazareth, or the gentle Father who is not too far off or too great to be sorry or glad with me, and to lead me by His side. Now is the time for daisies and they look so pretty on their tall stems. For gazing so steadily at the sun, I love to fancy, they have come to bear on their tiny faces a feeble likeness of His glory, and thus it is with us."
Remarkable, isn't she? Wow! I'd like to sit down to dinner with her and talk for hours! |
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| Kathy, what an awesome realization for a young lady at 15! Reminds me that there is nothing new under the sun and at the same time, builds my faith in that others have seen Him, too. Mind if I join you for that dinner? We'll do it someday, you know. |
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Hey, me too !!
I agree, what wisdom at such a young age! I'm reminded of C.S.Lewis and how he wove his concept of God and time into Narnia. Didn't you ever wonder why Narnia time worked different? Lewis was, if my surmise is correct, explaining his view about God and time. |
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Kathy |
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July 22, 2007 at 8:23pm |
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Voice, that's one of the reasons I love to read the Christian writings from earlier centuries! They provide a real feel for what God was doing then, and a fresh perspective on how culture (then and now) shapes our religious thinking.
Dennis, I must hang my head in shame as I admit to never having read The Chronicles of Narnia. Your explanation, however, intrigues me and certainly sounds very feasible! I love C.S. Lewis!
I'll reserve us all a table for four. No particular date necessary for this reservation, since time doesn't exist there! |
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Kathy,
I've read some of my grandmothers writings, we were a familu who wrote letters, and kept tem. I've noticed that they used words in a clearer way in the time period of your writer. It makes me think that our drive for "education" has taken a turn backwards, that maybe more isn't always better. Will this book be generally available? |
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| Dennis, not to steal away from the topic of this post, but I believe we have stopped teaching creative writing in our schools where words have true meanings that allow us to build upon a foundation. In my profession, good writing skills is a must. I have people interview with me who think they have great writing skills, but when I read samples of what they have written, I am amazed. They no longer read Whittier, Longfellow, and Shakespeare. I know I am weird, but I still read their works at times. There, I can get off my little soapbox. Kathy, you can have your post back. |
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Kathy |
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July 23, 2007 at 6:28am |
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I SO agree with you both, and as an educator, you can imagine that this is also a sopabox of mine! Studies have shown that every 20 years degrees go backwards one degree, meaning that theoretically today's doctoral degree is equivalent to a 1987 masters degree, a 1967 bachelor's degree, and a 1947 high school diploma! I can see this both in my job and in reading writings of past decades and centuries. And I agree, Voice, writing skill is one of the greatest casualities, along with critical thinking. We are teaching our children to take tests, not to analyze and synthesize information, a fact that is evident everywhere now. The average American reads at a 6th grade level. All this I believe accounts for the current religious and political climates, in which it is considered preferable to choose a camp to follow, thus leaving no need for personal depth of thinking. The denominational and/or party leaders tell us what we should believe.
Now, let's see. How can a possibly bring this back around to the question of suffering? Well, let's just call this a word from our sponsors! :)
Dennis, yes, the book is being printed by Baylor University Press and will be available; and even as a proofreader, it is rising to my favorite books of all time list! I'll keep you posted about when it's available, and I can't wait to get my own bound copy! Maybe Voice and Sword can sell them to us! |
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Kathy, that is such a ginormous step backwards in the degrees...I love that word...
Let me try something here...
If words have been diluted as well as critical thinking, then maybe it is harder for many of us to communicate. If it is harder for us to communicate, then maybe it is harder for us to see where God is | |
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