I work with a very mixed crowd, racially speaking, primarily Hispanic with about equal quantity of ebony and ivory.  Being the age group of guys that they are, of course they''re talking about the "big fight" tomorrow between de la Hoya and Mayweather, and something I noticed goes along the lines of what you said here.  The Hispanic guys were all rooting for de la Hoya (even the guys who didn't really like him) because he was representing the Hispanics, and the black guys were all rooting for Mayweather because he was representing the blacks.  Us white guys here in SoCal know just to keep our mouths shut in regards to situations like this, because no matter which guy we say we want to win (or think will win), we put ourselves against another racial group.

Personally, I think it's totally absurd when I hear people talk about how society has improved so much, and how racism is pretty much gone except for certain geographic locations, when in reality it is still just as alive as it always has been.  The only difference now is, people have learned to wait for the opposing race to leave their presence before they start their "coarse jesting".  After all, we have to appear to be tolerant, right?

I have heard people use some extremely foul terms in regards to other racial groups, and keep walking and talking as if nothing at all was out of the ordinary; things that have totally stopped me in my tracks they were so bad didn't even register in their heads like it was anything but another common term.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, and in the heart of man lie all sorts of evils and fornications and murders.  I think Isaiah's words in the sixth chapter of his book are very appropriate, whether we're willing to personally admit it about ourselves or not:

"I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell amongst a people of unclean lips."

The Lord can dispatch one of His angels to purge your lips of uncleanness, but unless the heart is changed, they will become defiled again.  May God truly have mercy on us, a sinful people...

Did you get a chance to say something to him? 

I can't help but plug-a-blog on this one :)  Here is a story about how the Lord delivered me from racism...

http://www.mychurch.org/blog/11484/I-Once-was-Prejudice-But-Now-I-See

With God there is no, "I love them but."  We have to learn to love like He loves.  This is not an easy thing to do.  When we discriminate against a person or persons based on their race, color, language, looks, age, disabilities, etc., we are telling God that He made a mistake with His creation.  How can we say we love God, which we have not seen, and dislike or hate another human being, which we see everyday (1 John).  How sad! 

Lourdes

I think of myself as not racist... but when on a trip to Israel - and that was way back in the early 1980s - I did have negative feelings about the Arab people there.  I had several very unpleasant experiences with the first Arab men I met, who were very, very racist themselves, and I still soemtimes have bad feelings about it.  In general, after much further study of the situation in Israel, I understand better what was happening.  Most of all, getting to know some Arab Palestinians both Muslim and Christian, has helped me 'get over it'. 

I learned that no matter how much one believes they are non-prejudiced, an unpleasant experience can take one by surpised.  But getting to know a 'real person' can help erase it.    Most of all, when I find myself even beginning to react in a prejudiced way, I choose to remind myself that Jesus loves him/her just as much as He loves me.

I think our prejudices stem from either fear or ignorance (or a combination of both). As humans, we tend to fear the unknown. Whether it is skin color, the shape of ones face, their religion, political position, or their education level, we build prejudices in what we observe and how we respond.  I grew up in a town where there was no prejudice because there were no minorities - at least racially. However, we still had "the other side of the tracks" where we didn't associate with those people because we were not accepted there.

I have personally overcome my fears and some of the ignorance by traveling a lot and always mingling with the local culture where I was the "odd one". When I was received openly, it is hard to keep the walls up.  Still, I think it is easy to fall into a prejudice thinking too easily.

What I have found amazing is that as you love others, the skin color, facial shapes, religion, politics, etc all fade to the backgound and you start seeing them as just another person.

I would say that I don't have a racist bone in my body. But by the definition of your blog, if there were a few racist bones there, I would likely not be able to see them because of my blindness, at least in that area. (I'm not arguing, I'm agreeing with you that most people with racist attitudes are blind to them and need others to point these subtle attitudes out.) I hope it's brought to my attention, if anyone ever sees/hears those attitudes.

The solution to deep seeded racism, IMHO, is time + the Gospel. Yes, God could change hearts immediately, but he has shown a preference to allow us the freedom to either shape our own attitudes or rely on him to do it. Where stubbornness persists, time takes over.

Racism is an area where Christians can truly shine. God's grace becomes apparent when we are treated badly due to racism and yet we persist in loving our enemies. Grace also becomes apparent when we are intentional about reaching out to folks that look different than us. One of the things I love about our church is the congregation is a mixed crowd, racially.

BTW, Ken Ham wrote a great book asserting that there is really only one race, the human race, and that our problems with people whose skin, hair, etc. looks different is just our tendency to force everyone into groups of us/them.

Amen, Lourdes and Karl! 

THT, Sue, and Bestemor, thank you for sharing your stories.  I think it is helpful to the body of Christ to listen to each other and perhaps to see our reflections in the mirror.  As long as we are blind to our prejudices, we have no reason to confront them.

Sue, unfortunately, no, I did not have a good opportunity to speak with this minister, and I chose, for better or for worse, not to forge one.  There is some regret there, much like someone I heard of who returned from a mission trip with pictures to show at his church.  One was a heart-wrenching shot of an adorable little homeless boy peering longingly into a restaurant window.  After the photo time, one of the church members asked the speaker what he did for the little boy, and all he could say was "I took this picture." 

Voice, I so agree with your assessment that prejudice comes from fear and ignorance, and I would add that the fear probably also comes from ignorance.  Travel is surely a wonderful means of reshaping our attitudes and broadening our views of life.  One of my special travel memories is of walking around the marketplace in The Gambia, Africa, with an ever-growing trail of little naked black children laughing and pointing and yelling "toubab" to let all the other children know they saw a white person. They hadn't seen a white person before and were fascinated by me, but there was no prejudice or fear or hatred.  One day a man walked a day's journey from another village just to welcome me because he heard there was a "stranger" visiting. 

Mike, I love to hear about churches that really get the diversity thing!  Your church is a special one indeed!

Okay, so I do have a bone to pick with the French...

Isn't that weird how we're so influenced by society? Right now it is "okay" to pick on the French. Freedom fries and all that.

Good blog Kathy, I am a (white) associate pastor serving under a (black) senior pastor and found we work together very well. Our church is a mixed group of several races of people and it works well. As for the problem of prejudice in this world it will follow us to the coming of Jesus. This is a problem in all culturals. Since Jesus loves us all and is no rspecter of persons then somebody has a problem. You and I both know that when we get to heaven Jesus will not have sections for different races. If a person is prejudice will they go to heaven? (My opinion) I THINK NOT!! 

Mike

Kathy,

You have really hit on some timely topics lately.  A few more thoughts here...

...don't feel any regret about not approaching the pastor. As a senior pastor, if it was your place, I think God would have opened the door widely and you both would have bumped into each other and the pastor would have asked you if you liked his joke. 

...as someone who spent years in the military where my life depended on the man to my right (a black man) and the one to my left (an Hispanic) I learned that racism has no place that is valid.  I challenge us all as a community, though, to look at that root of prejudice (I agree that it is born out of ignorance), and determine where we have some lurking.  Can you freely and openly accept a homosexual?  If not, why not?  How about a person who was caught in adultery? If not, why not? Do we look at these people through eyes tainted with sin because of their sin or because of our prejudice?  What about the handicapped?  Do we see them as people we can love? Do we open our arms to the adults from the adult day care center who have severe mental problems? If not, why not? How about the visitor in the wheel chair? Do we look at them any differently than the young lady or young man who is visiting? If so, why?

We have several people from the local adult day care that come to our church regularly.  About two years ago I found myself avoiding one of these men at our men's breakfast.  I don't know why I did this, but I didn't like it. I sought God about it. At the men's reteat that year, I ended up sharing a room with this man. He didn't communicate much, but I knew there was a person inside of him that wanted to be loved and wanted to love. I knew that because he was created in the image of the same God I was.  So, one night he was sitting on the edge of his bed swaying back and forth making grunting sounds.  I walked over and sat directly across from him. I didn't move. I looked him in the eye and started talking to him. I talked about anything and everything. Slowly he calmed down and started talking to me.  He is a 30+ man and probably functions as a 12 - 14 year old.  We spent almost all night talking as he slowly opened up to me.  As he opened up to me, my fear and ignorance melted away like wax.  I see him every Sunday now. He gives me a big hug. We talk sometimes. My point here is that sometimes we have to take that first step to breaking down the barriers. If perfect love casts out fear, then we should be in a "perfect" place to take that first step. Even if we aren't the ones with the prejudice, we should be responsible for taking that first step...maybe someday men and women will truly be judged by the content of their character.

amen amen amen amen...............one of the things i dont see is color. so what your that, so what your this! what should matter is saving lives. My best friend is white. but do i care no.....cause i dont see color, but i see the inside of the person and i dont matter what the outside may look like. if we touch and agree on things....im fine! what are we going to do in heaven with color? the one thing i hate is color. color is the biggest problem in the world..its not drugs not violence its not mature sex partners its not adultry. it is thou COLOR! color should never be the problem the things i jus mentioned is the PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 thanks for the message. God Bless, Be Blessed!

Quentin, I love you!!!

Racism, although not a salvation stopper, thanks to the wonderful matchless grace of God, is a serious spiritual problem in our society, and, as Mike pointed out, many other societies.  Our division has traditionally been black and white, although in recent years, that is changing to include Hispanics, Muslims, Asians, and just about anybody else that doesn't look or think just like us!  Other cultures have other divisions.  In Bolivia, for example, it's the European descendants against the indigenous peoples.  It seems to be human nature (but not Christian nature) to line ourselves up to appear superior to another group of people. 

Quentin, thank you so much for weighing in!  I can hear the passion in your "voice," and your voice is a most important one, as it is much easier to tell ourselves racism is not a big problem anymore when we are in the majority.  I have never talked with a minority person in the U.S. who thought racism was under control here. (And I have talked with many.  This is a topic in all my classes every semester, and it is always an eye-opener to the white students to hear the other students' stories.)  They live racism daily.  They see minute by minute the subtleties and the blind denials.

Mike, I am thrilled to hear of a racially mixed church in NC!!!  I know there are a few scattered here and there, but the South is little slow on this, don't you think?

Voice, Wow!  Give us all a mirror, why don't you!   And make it one of those that magnifies all our flaws 10 times!   :)    You are right on target, as usual!  And what's with that personal story about the retreat?  This is my blog!  You're not supposed to make me cry!   Thank you, my brother!  You really get it!

Mary Ann, yes, I should have mentioned the French in my blog!  And it's nice you showed up to give out some love, but where's mine?   :)      Love you too!

I just would like to make an additional point... As a latina I have seen racism against minorities, but I have also seen discrimination from minorities to others.  It pains me when minorities use their color, race, etc. to justify themselves of doing that which they accuse others are doing to them. 

When God calls us to love one another it is not a one way street.

Lourdes

Thank you Kathy! Amazing blog. You are an amazing person.

Cj 

Thank you, CJ, for the smile!  You are pretty amazing yourself!!  

Lourdes, you bring up a different point, but certainly a legitimate one.  One of my hurtful memories from when I used to teach high school was of a young black student with behavior problems who used to accuse me of being racist for disciplining him.  There are many people who look for anyone and anything, including race, to blame for their short-comings, so as not to have to be personally responsible for them.

Mary Ann, now that's more like it!   And it's reciprocal!

Voice in DC said : I think our prejudices stem from either fear or ignorance (or a combination of both).

My parents are both 80 years old now.  They live in GA while I'm in FL.  We bought my dad a webcam for his birthday a couple of years back and we're able to talk each evening "in person" so to speak.  I cannot tell  you how many times I hear my mother use the same type conversation as the visiting minister did.  She hasn't always been like this.  She worked for years as the head teller in a downtown bank.  It was very urban.  She waited on all different socio-economic groups of people from wealthy rockers (Allman Brothers, Phil Walden, Cher) to very poor people barely able to put food on the table.  She never - ever - talked like she does now.  I wonder if aging and the fears that come along with that plays into some of what we see and hear.  

I'm by no means excusing any of it.  And, I realize that I'm only talking about a small segment of society when I bring in the age aspect.  I only do this because of the age of the visiting minister and that of my aged parents.

Regardless - it's wrong - period.  Your Galatians 3:28 Scripture is one we all need to take to heart completely. 

Great post, Kathy. 

Kathy...  I'm with you.

Let's ask ourselves a tougher question though.  Given that racism is generally perceived as a sin of commission... what about sins of omission?  That is, apparently 11am on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week, despite NT teachings about the multicultural Church.  So what are we doing about that?

 Here's a book that totally (offended me at first and then) changed my perspective on this question.  "Divided By Faith" is a classic.  I would challenge folks to read it... especially people like myself... white evangelicals.

Next time any of you are in Indianapolis, stop by Crossroads Bible College -- a unique Bible college specifically INTENTIONAL about creating a well-mixed racial environment as they uniquely teach our future leaders to break the old paradigm and implement a radically more biblical point-of-view.

"...apparently 11am on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week..."

I have heard others say this, too, but it is not my experience. Perhaps my experience is not the norm. Our church is a blend of many sizes, colors, backgrounds...and it adds great dimension to our worship.  We rotate worship teams and with that rotation comes a variety of music and songs. i cherish the blend and figure heaven will offer even more.  TGBTG!

IndyChristian, thank you for adding another dimension to this discussion.  Since I am sure I would be kidding myself to think I'll get around to reading this book anytime soon, can you briefly give us the book's perspective and/or some of its wisdom?

Voice, thank you for another story of worshipping together!  You are blessed to be in such a church! 

UF, unfortunately we southerners are a little behind on this issue, aren't we?  In most cases, though, I think the ministers who say these things have no idea they have said anything wrong.  They are for the most part, the older, less educated, and more rural ministers whose circles of influence have been small, and whose early life experiences were completely segregated. 

Voice mentioned education level as another point of prejudice, and that is one that deeply discourages me for the Church.  There is a tradition among some of the more rural churches that says ministerial education is a tool of Satan, because the Holy Spirit is all we need to preach the Word.  This is such a sad commentary on the Church.  Is it possible for someone without the benefit of higher education to be a good pastor / preacher?  Yes.  Would he be even better with more education?  Very likely!  If we ever reach the point of thinking we know all we need to know, there's a good chance we know very little.  For a picture of our blind spots to a lack of education, see the story of my nephew after kindergarten in this blog:  http://www.mychurch.org/blog/23521/Where-Is-God-When-Im-Hurting.  One of the greatest benefits that comes from higher education is coming face to face with our prejudices so we can let them go.

Howard, thank you for the encouraging word!  It only takes one word to give someone a smile!         

a good example of this is my uncle is a elderly pastor and back in the early 80s my 16 year old cousin had a baby who was mixed my aunt and uncle believed that this child had no soul because of it being mixed. i couldn't believe how a man of god could be so stupid. later on i found out there was a bible released in the 30s and 40s that was based on racism i just wish i could think of or find some information on the publishers of this bible. its a sad thought that the readers of these books could believe what was written in them. how many of you ever herd that it is a sin to marry out side of your race that it is written in the bible i herd this all of my life but ya know what its not in my bible. praise the lord.

the way i have always seen it is the pastor of a church has to set an example for every one else. the congregation relies on this person to teach them and show them the way to salvation. not lead them astray. being a minister is a very important job. they must set aside their own personal feelings and live acording to jesus teachings

Hi Danae!  We all have our flaws, even pastors.  I'm glad you are willing to speak out against racism!  It's nice to meet you!

Follow up on what Kathy said, I have notice over the years, if someone tells you a joke, a story, or something about a person they meet and if that person is a different "color" then them, they will start out by saying...."This black(or what ever color)said..................   Why do we do that? It doesn't change  what they are telling you. It is a spirit in us that we need to over come. We need to seek God to rid us of that kind of attitude. I not only talking about the every day people but the leaders of our churches.  It is racism and these people don't even know they are. I hear this stuff every day. I work in a environment with people from all over the world. 

Mike 

Depending on how you look at it, I am a first or second generation American. I was born in Havana, Cuba, but came to the United States when I was 16 months old, and have no memories of Cuba. Furthermore, for most of my life, I was raised and have lived in All-American neighborhoods, and I am proud to call myself an American Citizen.

It is important for all Christians to realize that this great nation is populated by people of all ethnic backgrounds, faiths, and races, and that we are all God's children.

I don't condone the minister's blatant racism and prejudice as he's preaching in God's House! I just hope that other church goers recognized his error and that someone actually confronts him after one of his sermons, because he may not "see the light," until he understands the errors of his ways, much as Sue (post above) learned herself!

When I was younger, I was deeply hurt by prejudice and racism, but, with age comes wisdom, and I realize that prejudice is a flaw of ignorant and insecure individuals. Your minister may be only "human," and riddled with all the frailties and flaws that plague humanity, but hopefully he'll soon learn that all God's people come to church to hear His Word, and all God's people don't necessarily look like him!    

I love your blog, Kathy.

Keep up the good work!

-- Susana 

Susana posted about 4 complete blogs here as comments, and due to the size with all the graphics and large fonts, I deleted them and requested that she post them as blogs from her page, and link to them from here.  Watch for them, because they are much more powerful and poignant that this blog is, and her message of growing up Hispanic in the U.S. is one that will change us!  They are formatted for easy reading, and the graphics and personal photos are excellent, so don't miss them!  I look forward to reading them again myself, when she posts them!  Thank you, Susana!

love this blog

i can't believe a man of god would say that

Thanks, fall out girl!  We are all works in progress, even pastors, and unfortunately our flaws are much more visible to everyone else than they are to us.  (I think it has to do with that log in the eye thing!)  Be blessed, fall out girl! 

I'll be controversial.  I don't see the big deal.  There are realities in this world.  Everybody has prejudice about everthing, whether it's the color of the computer you have, or the way old people drive.  There's no escaping it.

I think to be a racist you have to have hate in your heart and feel contempt for somebody because of their color.  I'll bet you don't think he's that way, since you're going to his church.  I think it sucks that we can't poke fun at each other, without being completely PC.  I'll bet you that if you made joke about whatever color he is, or where he came from he wouldn't feel offended.  Usually people who tell jokes, can take jokes about themselves.

Lastly, I think there is a bigger issue here.   Having a heightened sensitvity to a comment or joke makes a person feel like a victim.  Feeling like a victim gets you know where.  Everybody I've ever met who has had this type of sensitivity has never amounted to anything.  Always pointing fingers and never taking responsibility for their problems.

 By the way, did hear the one about the.... I won't go there.

Birdie, that was beautiful! 

Kathy, I don't think Susana is going to post those blogs. :(

Cj 

Mike mentioned that, "BTW, Ken Ham wrote a great book asserting that there is really only one race, the human race, and that our problems with people whose skin, hair, etc. looks different is just our tendency to force everyone into groups of us/them."

Now, I would add that much of the racism that we see is often stirred up by the University types that keep reminding various groups how downtrodden they are, how white people hate them, etc. and how much they are owed. IOW, they keep the stuff stirred up usually in the minorities.

Most of the racisim that has occured in the last century or so IMHO is due to Darwin and the logical outcome of Darwinism from whence the modern idea of races occurs.

Ken Ham is correct scientifically and the Bible says there is only one race, period. So, in a sense how can there be racism except out of ignorance of humanity as a whole? Does that make sense?

One of the best ways to fight "racism" then is to have the Biblical view of creation, get evilution out of the schools or better yet, separate Schools from the State, Christians need to immediately bring their kids out of the government schools, thus, allowing them to collapse, and educate their children properly AWAY from the governmental racist schools. They foment it! 

It would be adding to the word of God if you say "but" and we are not to add to or take away so there.

Blessings