Thanks guys!

Dear friends.....let us, the church, all come to a consensus on which politician most closely represents the values of scripture, and then let us confirm our vote by the Holy Spirit. SURELY the Spirit wouldn't contradict himself and lead Christian voters to vote for DIFFERENT candidates and DIFFERENT party platforms now, would he??? So consensus shouldn't be difficult at all. But friends, let us also intentionally forget that NEITHER candidate proclaims the name of Jesus before our nation, NEITHER candidate claims to be the servant of the Lord. The lesser of two evils??? Maybe. But where in the bible does God urge us to WHOLEHEARTEDLY STRIVE TO SUPPORT THE LESSER OF EVILS? Doesn't God's word tell us to "avoid every kind of evil"???

Secular politics, an instrument of the Lord? More often an instrument of Satan, if you ask me......

Daniel 4:31, 32; While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee. And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

We have to arrive at the conclusion that it is God that rules over us, and he places who he wants in their respective places. According to scripture the world will eventually be under the control of the devil. What we must do is prepare for the coming of Christ. Politics and Christ don't mix. Just look at what politics has done within the church.

Mike your blog has the premise that politics are not to be mixed in with church. I find that premise faulty. And you unintentionally gave me more reason for that in your own comment by saying: Dear friends.....let us, the church, all come to a consensus on which politician most closely represents the values of scripture, and then let us confirm our vote by the Holy Spirit. SURELY the Spirit wouldn't contradict himself and lead Christian voters to vote for DIFFERENT candidates and DIFFERENT party platforms now, would he??? So consensus shouldn't be difficult at all. 

It is interesting your use of the word "DIFFERENT" as is to pointing a finger to Obam who proclaims change which is DIFFERENT that the current politicians. Each citizen of this Nation has a solemn responsibility to exercise their right to vote in a manner that is congruent to their believes. And those believes encompass all aspects of their lives, up to and most certainly including, their religious values. Political, religious, and other topics of discussion are necessary for as a society we do not live in a vacuum. The problem mainly arises, like in the case of your example, when we are preached those topics in the wrong places at the wrong time. When I go to church I do not want my pastor to tell me who to vote for or any other person for that matter. Would I entertain a discussion on the merits of our candidates or political events in general even in church? I would, just do not preached me your vision.

Caleb, thanks for the comment. Divergent points of view welcomed! And please, my friend, DO NOT read too much into what I've written, as I am afraid you may have done. Any similarity between the language in the blog and political slogans or platforms is PURELY COINCIDENTAL. I have never spoken a word against either candidate. I will not publicly support or condemn either in my blogs. Just ain't gonna happen, bro. Cool?

Debora....yes it does, and I'm pretty sure the Spirit grieves even more than we do when it does.

Hey Dave, nice to see ya.

Marilyn...I used to be a talk radio junkie, I loved my political views! I was SURE I was on the "right" side. How could those on the other side be so deceived? How could anyone be so wrong and not know it?!? But I was the one deceived, I was wrong. Not specifically about my choice of politician, but about God's role in it and the importance of it in relation to his eternal perfect will. I've come a long way, and still have much farther to go! 

Many people will not join church groups because they usually end up talking about each other or something that has nothing to do with the scriptures, which is what they were supposed to be doing in the first place. just my thoughts.

Stu, complaints about politicians are wide-ranging....and often true!

Marcia... indeed, a well focused church group will avoid dwelling long on unproductive and especially contentious side issues. Politics is a topic for friends.... not the business of churches, IMHO.

Dan, I believe this viewpoint you've shared is as valid as some of the opposing viewpoints that others could share. Since I don't have an economics degree, I'll just say this is YOUR viewpoint, and I thank you for sharing it. It is a fact that God is neither Democrat or Republican, and neither party has a foolproof solution for ALL the problems of this society or world.

Deb, again we have much in common. Thanks for sounding out!

Robin, thanks very much. I couldn't agree more w/your observation about making weaker brothers or sisters stumble. This is one of the main reasons our political beliefs should stay out of our ministries, IMHO. :-)

LOL, I don't know Dan, you're talkin Greek to me bro!

Jerry.....couldn't agree more!

This issue is always interesting for me because I come from a very political (yet mostly non-Christian) family courtesy of my politician late-grandfather.  I agree wholeheartedly with your post Mike.  Your overall point that we must never let anything, including politics, interfere with the Great Commission is absolutely right.  At the same time, I hope no one runs in the opposite direction, avoiding political discussions altogether.  What matters is how we handle it. 

We err when we treat it as a game, an us-vs-them situation.
We err when we leave the impression that the party we support never does anything wrong from God's    perspective (unless of course that's the honest truth)
We sin when we attack any person in any way.
We sin when we let our political feelings drift to unrighteous anger.

The trouble we cause when we make the above errors aside, what useful purpose do they serve?  Whether we're surrounded by like-politically-minded individuals or not, what useful thing does any disparaging remark about a politician or party accomplish?  If the goal is to persuade others to drift to your political ideas, then how can anything other than a well-reasoned argument about the relevant ISSUES bring this goal closer to reality?  Any of the four above errors seems to be self-defeating in multiple ways.

Again though, I think we should see opportunities here.  During the last presidential election cycle, my thoroughly non-Christian cousin tried to draw me into an email-debate on politics.  I indulged her, doing my best, within the boundaries I defined above, to explain the issues that mattered to me, why I took the positions that I did, and show why I couldn't support her preferred candidates.  I then turned the tables on her and drew her into a discussion on faith.  When it ended, God had opened a door that put 20 printed pages worth of witnessing/apologetics discussions and a copy of The Case for Christ in her hands.  I've seen no evidence that it had any impact, but that doesn't mean that it never will.

I guess my point is that if politics is a wedge that has been dividing the Children of God, then we need to get on the blunt edge and start pushing.

Mike,

As you know from previous blog comments of mine, I am in full agreement with you.  Politics and my religion simply do not mix.  I adhere to the word of the Lord in Hebrews 13: 17.  I will submit to my leaders, whomever is ultimately elected.  The people I minister to and with have no need to know what canadite I will vote for. 

Starr

Revstarr, if it was true that politics and religion do not mix then why did we have a prominent Evangelical governor (Mr. H) running for President? Why do we have a political party basing (among other considerations) its VP nomination on the evangelical political right wing movement? The truth of the matter is that we cannot divorce politics from religion for it does impact one way or they other our ways of life. If you hear some of the reasons people vote one party or the other you will hear religious reasons for their decisions. I do agree with Mike and others that you have to be careful and keep in mind the different forums where you stand in order to talk about politics, religion, economics, creationism, evolutionism, sex education, health issues, and many other topics.

Doyle, often simpler is better. That gets my "vote." ;-)

Starr, it's clear that your focus is on the ministry of the Spirit, not temporal solutions. Bravo!

Michael, excellent comment!! I admire your priorities, and your clear focus on them! Truth is eternal, far outlasting the avg term served by our favorite politicians!

Caleb, I'm pretty sure we all agree that our religious convictions do indeed play a role in determining how we vote. In that sense there is a mix. We just need to be sensitive about who we share our convictions with and how. Those attempting to minister to others are best off keeping their political views to themselves.

I always find my mind coming back to the phrase "Be like-minded, and of one accord."  One would think that if we're all seeking the promotion of Godly things in our governments, we would be able to agree on things political.  But alas, the devil of self stands strong in the way, elevating vain preferences and personal whims above the righteous things we are to stand -- together -- for.

Until we learn to rightly live for Him, will will continue to fail to "be like minded, and of one accord" in the area of politics.

Patrick, first welcome to MyChurch! (Though I'm gonna disagree with some of your assertions, I greet you in love and thank you for sharing your opinions brother.)

I also want to applaud your faithfulness in ministry, sounds like your work for the Lord is difficult...but MUCH appreciated!

I believe you misunderstood my premise, given your misapplication of my "logic". The mission of the church is to advance the Gospel, the good news about Jesus. There are many, many side issues that distract from this basic mission. Politics is one of them. Should we avoid EVERY topic that might potentially cause division? Well, no. If it is Christ himself causing the division (as he promised he would - Luke 12:51), then it cannot be helped, the church must continue. But if it is a topic that distracts from the good news about Christ Jesus, then it should be avoided, or dealt with in a different way (perhaps in a more sensitive manner - Romans 14).

Real ministry points to Christ, glorifies God, and seeks to increase the influence of Christ in people. Right? How does the promotion of secular politicians, with a secular agenda, accomplish this????

(answer: it doesn't)