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| Rick Warren - Interfaith Activist |
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There's no hiding it anymore. He's out and out with it. Washington Post had an article about Warren that shows where his loyalties lie. Speaking of Warren's loyalties, the Muslim author of this article stated:
Warren consistently used the language of a religious pluralist. He spoke of "mosques, temples and churches" as central to the life of villages in the developing world. He underscored the fact that there are huge numbers of people of faith in the world, and huge numbers of houses of worship in places where clinics, banks and schools don't exist. Those people of faith can be trained to be the arms and legs of any development plan, and those houses of worship can double as clinics, banks and schools. This is a big deal, because it signals an important turn in the American Evangelical tradition - from viewing people of other faiths primarily as lost souls requiring conversion to viewing them as partners in the plan to make earth more humane and just. "Progressive Evangelicals" like Jim Wallis, Brian McLaren and Tony Campolo (read an interview here with Campolo on interfaith cooperation), have long been involved in interfaith efforts, but the mainline of that tradition has always been more wary. That could be changing.
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When I asked Warren to name something that he admired about Muslims, he answered without hesitation: "you people are not afraid to talk about God, he said with a smile. It's always, 'God willing', or 'God bless', or 'Thanks be to God.' That's something I admire, because I come from the same place." for full article: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/eboo_patel/2008/09/rick_warren_interfaith_activis.html
It's sad to see that Warren doesn't perceive that Muslims do worship a different God. Notably, a god who does not have a Son! They worship a god that does not care for man (personally), and only guarentees him a spot in paradise (with 75 perpetual virigins) if he die in Jihad (i.e. battle) with an infidel. If not, then the muslim hopesw his or her good deeds and observance of the five pillars of Islam is good enough. The Muslim god, named Satan (i.e. Allah), will let a person slide on "good enough." The last time I checked, "good enough" wasn't good enough for Yahweh. He said "The heart is wicked and deceitful beyond cure, who can understand it?" (Jer 17:9). All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23). "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom 6:23). according to God's Holy Word, works or merit is not "good enough"! We are saved by grace, through faith, and that not of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. For you were created in Christ Jesus for good works which God predestined that we should walk in them" ( Eph 2:8-10). The early church didn't partner with Hindus, Confucians, Muslims, etc. in bettering humanity. They recognized there is a spiritual difference. They sought to bring them a knowledge of the (truly) good news, that we don't have to live our lives in terror of the cruel spirits, ancestors or gods, worrying if wev'e done enough to chastise them, but that our failings, misgivings and iniquities are all covered under the blood of God's messiah, and considered by the truly benevolent ruler and Maker of the cosmos no more. |
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"The early church didn't partner with Hindus, Confucians, Muslims, etc. in bettering humanity. They recognized there is a spiritual difference."
We also need to recognize that difference, and stop worrying about "political correctness." God help us if we don't! |
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| I dont consider Rick Warren Saved. I believe the Apostate Church is the Purpose driven |
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| I think part of it is "Purpose Driven" and "seeker-friendly". But it goes way beyond that! The Purpose Driven church has it's role in legitimizing the ecuminism across religions, but is mixed with the New Age spirituality and Political Correctness that's seeped into our churches. By the way, I like that line Lara, "it ain't no refreshing lake either!" Haha... whew, it's not! Care if I use that with the youth? |
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Eric |
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October 02, 2008 at 1:51pm |
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I'm not sure I can agree with the spin in this blog, Chris. I'm reminded of your blog from a few months ago that blacklisted dozens of prominent Christian apologists and theologians for allegedly embracing and teaching pagan spiritual practices as "new" Christianity. I looked into a few of them and found the quotes to be tenuously connected at best. I'm seeing a repeat here. Consider one homeless alcoholic. Call him Clive. You go up to Clive and give him the full Gospel message with bells and whistles and scripture references. He asks antagonistic questions. You answer them politely. He firmly states his answer: "no." His firm refusal is now clearly established. What do you do next? Well, of course you could continue to pray for him and give the Gospel differently whenever the opportunity arises, but there is also this sticking point: 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 2:15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 2:16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? Clearly, we are also called to "partner" with Clive to minister his physical needs. You and I are in agreement that we need to evangelize to everybody on the planet. If a village is not receptive, we are not called to ignore them. What are we to do? Do the best we can to help them. This is what I see Warren talking about. Another point: yes, we need to speak the truth clearly. Calling somebody a sinner is good (especially augmented with the fact that we are sinners too, so superiority is not communicated). Calling somebody a cultist is just going to cause them to shut their ears. Paul said the exact opposite of this when speaking to the Greeks (Acts 17). I think there are many ways to evangelize. After all, an aspect of evangelism is making friends; connecting at a personal level. People are all different. One way that works for me (albeit I'm pretty inexperienced) is working from within their own faith system and not calling them a heathen. Be a friend, walk like a Christian, and when opportunity presents, talk about what you believe, Who you believe. As Ravi Zacharias often says, "I don't like to throw mud at other religions for two reasons: you get your hands dirty and you lose a lot of ground." This is what I see Warren doing. There is a theoretical/theological way of speaking, and there is a practical way of speaking. Jesus primarilly spoke in the latter; in Romans Paul spoke in the former. Let me know your thoughts. But I think the intentions of Warren need to be analized with a larger scope than this. I haven't read his stuff, but I hear nothing but good things from his theology by people that I respect for their spiritual maturity. |
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Eric |
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October 02, 2008 at 1:52pm |
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| By the way, be brutal in beating out of me "PC" vapidness and "worldliness." I seek to abhor those things in the name of Christ. If I have been caught blindsided, call me out on it. |
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Eric |
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October 02, 2008 at 1:57pm |
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By the way, I highly admire the dedication and zeal of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons in their evangelism efforts. That is the truth. I am not afraid to say that, and my saying this does not legitimize their gospel one whit. Abstaining from saying this not only makes me insincere, it causes tension in relationships. "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious!" |
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Amen brother... I admire their zeal in evangelism... though they are required, part of their "works doctrine" to earn celestial heaven and become gods. If they fail, they'll only go to the telestial heaven. In their theology, the only ones who go to hell are the apostate momrons. How's that for cult theology?
Now for the beating, haha! Certainly, I agree with you in meeting people... you usually can't tell people to their face they're going to hell... and most responses to salvation are made through relationships. The "good deeds" that Warren is empahasizing aren't in and of themself bad, for we were saved for good deeds in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:10). By all means we should be engaged in servanthood and deeds of love, but not at the expense of the gospel. Warren does not mention the gospel, or explain it as a basis for salvation. He is falling into the camp of teaching that "everyone is going to heaven," much as Mormons state, though I'm sure their conception differs.
And for me, it's not that I want to demonize Warren... but I think the teaching is so heretical! Brian Mclaren, of the emerging church actually denies the atonement!!! I don't know why he calls his meeting a church. Actually, I do know why, because he is deceived and a tool of his master. |
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Eric |
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October 03, 2008 at 2:03pm |
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Brian Mclaren? I'll have to do a little more reading. I haven't heard of him. According to Wikipedia, his church is 10 minutes away from where I live! Honestly, I've mostly ignored the goings-ons of "seeker friendly" churches. One of them brought me to Christ, and many of the small groups there have read Warren's PDL. If Mclaren denies the atonement, this is indeed heretical. Does Warren ignore the Gospel in his writings? I'll verify with someone who's read his stuff. |
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Eric |
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October 03, 2008 at 2:06pm |
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| But yeah, the Gospel should be communicated clearly as often as possible. I'm reading through The Cross Centered Life by CJ Mahaney which uses Paul (my hero) as a model. The Gospel revolved around everything Paul did and said. |
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Eric |
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October 03, 2008 at 2:13pm |
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From Brian Mclaren's church's website's statement of belief: We believe that all people are created with dignity and value in the image of God, to live in a vital relationship with God. However, through our sin (failing to live by God´s moral standards), we break our intended relationship with God and we experience the destructive consequences of that broken relationship, spiritually and socially, in this life and beyond. However, God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to rescue us from those consequences and to restore our broken relationships with God and others, through Christ´s death on the cross, a perfect act of redemption for each of us. Salvation comes to people on the basis of God´s grace through their faith in Jesus alone. They receive the free gift of forgiveness and are spiritually reborn through repenting of their sin and believing in Jesus Christ. Good works and a holy life, although totally unable to save anyone, are the natural product of repentant, believing people. Pardoning the Arminian slant, I think this is a very good summary of the Gospel and the Atonement of Christ. |
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Ah, my friend... but for certain churches, you can no longer take what they say on their website as truth, but must be familiar from what the pastor teaches or endorses. I found this article on Mcclaren at www.carm.org:
I've done a lot of research on McLaren, reading his books and I'm very sad to say that there are some serious problems. One of the most disturbing I have found is his endorsement of a book by Alan Jones called Reimagining Christianity. McLaren wholeheartedly approves of the book and yet in this book, Alan Jones says that the vicarious atonement of Christ is a vial doctrine. He casts strong doubt over the Bible's reliability, denies the virgin birth, says Christianity a sadomasochistic, affirms evolution, and sees religions such as Islam and Buddhism as equally valid compared to Christianity. In my assessment, Alan Jones is not a Christian and no true Christian should ever support the book reimagining Christianity. But, what does Brian McLaren actually teach? Some pretty disturbing things! You Can go to the first and second articles that list a series of quotes from him. In them you will see how troubling Brian McLaren's teachings really are. Among the quotes he states such things as Christianity is a little true, that perhaps our understanding of Christianity is wrong, that masculine pronouns used to describe God should be avoided, that we probably haven't got the gospel right yet, that understanding nothing is good, that Gandhi followed the way of Christ, that being saved is not being saved from God's damnation, that we haven't got the homosexuality issue right, and that systematic theology is a practice in arrogance. Therefore, I can only conclude that Brian McLaren is a dangerous teacher. http://www.carm.org/emerging/brian_mclaren.htm |
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Eric |
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October 10, 2008 at 2:07pm |
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Wow, you cited CARM! I came back here because, while searching CARM for something on Zen Buddhism, I found a whole page directed to this Mclaren guy! LOL! Is God trying to wake me up? http://www.carm.org/emerging/brian-mclaren_quotes2.htm I'm not sure what to say about not being able to trust statements of beliefs.... If I can't trust what anybody says, how am I to operate? Call me naiive and young, I dunno. I'm an optimist by nature. |
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Eric |
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October 10, 2008 at 5:58pm |
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OH MY GOD!!!!
I'm listening to Ravi Zacharias right now, a Q&A session, and a student asks Ravi what's up with the Emergant Church!!!
God's trying to wake me up! |
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| Dude... even Ravi seems to be following the contemplative path of mysticism. He is seemingly promoting mystics like Henri Nouwen. Praise the LORD God is waking you up brother!!! |
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