Kim Wilkens
Kim Wilkens's blog
 23stars  |   4readers
View profile|View all posts| Follow this blog
charting church
||May 18, 2007|789 reads
 

To add a comment to "charting church"
Kenneth Hymes
May 18, 2007
You know already, Kim, but I think your chart is wonderfully expressive of where the Spirkt is leading us as a church.  You ask the necessary next question: how can we visually express the relationship "culture map" part in a similar way, keeping Jesus at the center? 

God's peace
Ken
Eric Schmitz
May 19, 2007

I think there may be a fundamental problem with this diagram, and it comes down to the "eggs" in the "basket".  The "culture map" overlay shows ministry teams clearly inside the walls of Peace, which may describe where we were but not where we want to GO.

Take the Global Ministry team, for example -- this entity stretches across several of the boundary layers in your diagram.

The VBS Ministry team stretches at least across Neighborhood, if not Charlottesville.

There is no reason that we cannot provide a variety of community-inclusive opportunities inter-related to each area of discipleship.

The arrows imply, to me, acting upon -- "us" bringing Jesus outside our walls to people, or bringing people inside our walls to Jesus.

I think, rather, the discipleship process is both transforming, and relational -- the Spirit working on an individual through, not by, "us". I think the confusion arises out of the literal translation and understanding of God's command:  make disciples.  I tend to think that the Spirit will "make" disciples with or without any specific "us" (as in Peace LC, versus another part of the body).

Sorry to be so critical -- I do like the idea that Christ is at the center, and it is clear that we are of the world -- I wonder how off-center we are?

--eric

Angela Melton
May 20, 2007
You know the joke, "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans"?  I would add, "and draw a diagram." 
Angela Melton
May 20, 2007
I just wanted to make it clear that I was speaking in support of Kim's thoughts about trying to chart God on a grid.  I wasn't criticizing her diagram.  I do think such charts can be helpful in explaining complex (or simple!) concepts. I was thinking that Jesus should be listed in every circle, and perhaps outside the last circle. (Or is that what the arrows are for?)   To also quote Kelly Fryer in Reclaiming the C Word, "God is already out there, on the loose, doing all kinds of cool stuff." (p. 17)
RuthAnn Wilson
June 01, 2007
I can't believe I haven't read this until now!  I like your chart, and I really like your ideas and ways of expressing them.