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| Should Senior Pastors Clean Commodes? |
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4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Should pastors clean commodes? Yes, indeed! Especially if they believe the red-letter words in the New Testament.
Jesus said (in red): “The rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave — just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
I once read a story in a book by Watchman Nee, a Chinese Christian who died in a communist prison, that went something like this. He was visiting a Christian community in China and asked his host if he could meet the pastor. The host said he would be glad to take him to the pastor and asked Watchman Nee to follow him.
The host led him across a field to a small building and told Watchman Nee: “The pastor is in there cleaning that out.” The building was an outhouse.
Do we really believe the Bible?  |
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| To add a comment to "Should Senior Pastors Clean Commodes?" |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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Certainly we need to be willing to do whatever needs to be done. Anything else is pride. Many times we do these sorts of things as servant leaders who set the tone. Of course there are at least 2 other questions we need to ask before we clean that toilet. 1. Is there somebody in the church who would benefit more from serving the Lord in this way? 2. Is cleaning this toilet going to cause me to have to leave undone some more valuable work in the kingdom? |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| Steve: I believe Jesus wants the pastors in His church to demonstrate His lifestyle of humility, not just preach about it. 1) Jesus obviously thought that the greatest person in the church would benefit the most from doing the least thing. 2) The most valuable work a pastor can do is to act like Jesus and to do the least things. What is a lessor thing to do in the church than toilet cleaning? I just cleaned one this morning and there is nothing quite like it for putting ministry into perspective. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| Putting ourself last,puts ourself first. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| A resounding yes Steve. I cannot see why not. Been there done that. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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 sure they should!
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| November 01, 2008 |
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There is nothing like servitude, that is why i try to get to know the janitors, they are the most important people in the house, because when and if you ever get locked in, the CEO, Pastor (in some cases), President of the company is not going to come and let you out. I believe that the higher God elevates anyone Spiritually, Physically and Financially it is just to become a greater servant and example/role model to those who are still growing. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| Amen, Dan. That is what God is calling all believers too. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| before man interviened pastors were just overseers for 330 years after christ and not the Kings that they are today. Oration was shared in all the fellowships and all shared until the business sadly took over. Men who were tentmakers, meaning those who travelled to help establish fellowships were paid. The Pastors were not. They werent the Kings they are today. Today's formation is not God's formation. It emasculates the basic man in fellowships. Thats why you see a huge turn towards home fellowships again, like the original New Covenant Church. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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Er... I'm giggling a tiny bit because I wrote a story in which the vicar of a small mission to expatriates in late 18th century Paris cleans an orphanage's chamber pots to spare everyone else the task. God bless you for tackling that toilet, Steve. Cleanliness really is next to godliness--for many reasons! |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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Catchy title and good thoughts....
Actually I think my senior pastor started out cleaning toilets in a church......don't think he would have a problem doing it today if he had too.....
I think we all need reality checks once in a while to keep us humble - not just senior pastors - and it is pretty humbling (and enlightning) when you're eye level with a toilet.......
but if there are any more out there who need to practice humility they can come clean at my house :) |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| P_E_R_A_P_G: You make some good points. Protestants say we believe in the priesthood of the believer and then we support a priestly class to rule over the saints. That is inconsistent with our doctrine. Every believer indeed is a priest called to live the Gospel and minister to one another. |
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| November 01, 2008 |
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| Said, Christeena, but we present day Christians have made celebrities out of leaders who should be humble and broken. I am glad your pastor didn't go along with that. |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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| I am sure that so my senior pastors have and/or would not mind cleaning the toilet. Just the tilte pastor says, servant. You were called to pasture his flock. It is not the backward things that we see in so many churches today, where the pastors sits higher than Christ himself. I visited a church once and the pastor had the members placing her shoes on her feet. In the pulpit, during service. My heart was so broken. I begin to weep for God's people and all of the manipulating they were enduring simply because they loved the Father. I often pray for the many people that were driven away by the abuse they have received from pastors and titled members in the church. The Lord is not pleased with our proud spirits and hautly attitudes. I pray that I will forever remain humble no matter where he seats me in HIS kingdom. |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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Several years ago, I resigned from a church as associate when the Sr. pastor revealed the depth of misguided pride that some in the ministry hold. Some of the odler ladies had arrived early one Sunday, and the doors were still locked, so they had to wait in the cold. He was asked by the board to arrive at church 15 minutes early to unlock the door, and he told the board "I was not hired as door keeper." That statement opened my eyes, and I began to put together events and statements from the recent past. Needless to say, I began praying over my future under that leadership, and began arriving 15 minutes earlier to insure the doors were open in time.
The journey of sanctification is the walk in growing humility, not pride. Becoming more Christlike requires we put "self" further down the list of importance. When we see a lack of Godly humilty in our leaders, we will loose faith in them. While my denomination does not practice foot washing as a sacrament, I think those of us in leadership should occasionally wash some feet, as well as change some diapers, sweep some floors, and anything else needed to serve God's people. If I am too good to serve you, what are the odds I will be willing to die for you, as Christ commanded? |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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| Excellent points and a very sad example of clergy abuse, Minister Stephanie. |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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| The journey of sanctification is the walk in growing humility, not pride. -- That is very well expressed, Jimmy! |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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| No matter who you are in ministry, you always have to stay humble that you'll do whatever needs done. You know Jesus had to wash the disciples feet before going to the cross. Peter (I'm pretty sure it was him, it was one of them) didn't want to let him, and Jesus said I must do this. We must loose our pride in ministry. We have to both be the servant and allow that others can serve us as well. That's the joy of being in unity and in one body. Pride takes all sorts of forms, and we must always be on our guard against it. |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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Great point, doveagle. |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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| Great conversation Steve! |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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| Thank you, Mike. |
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| November 02, 2008 |
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First of all, I don't want to come across in the wrong way. I believe pride has destroyed many potentially great ministries in the Earth. Of course we know pride is the opposite of humility. Humility should most definetly be a strong character of any leader.
But as I think about the title of this blog I must say some things that may be a little contrary. (Not looking for strife or an arguemnent) Never have experience the anointing striving. Looking at this from a biblical perspective and and also church structure this is my observation. Senior pastors have a call to feed the flock and lead them through teaching and preaching the Word of God. In the book of Acts chapter 6 the ministry became so overwhelming that 7 other men full of wisdom and the Holy Ghost were chosen to take care of some of the the daily administration duties. I personally believe Pastors should have their face in the Word and on the floor praying for a revelation of God's word that will cause a revolution in our world. I think churches have put so many unnecessary demands upon their pastors, that they aren't seeking Him enough and spending quality time hearing from heaven to speak life changing words to the saints.
Furthermore, though I'm not above cleaning a toilet if needed, however there are enough sitting saints that need to rise up and take a place in active ministry which could be cleaning toilets for the Glory of God. The top priority of Preachers is to bring Rhema that will clean hearts. Rather than trying to prove humility by cleaning a toilet. (By the way, I've clean many toilets and probably will clean more, but I'm more interested in cleaning what's in the pue than the toilet. |
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| November 03, 2008 |
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| Hi Steve. If people aren't prepared to clean toilets out, they shouldn't be behind a pulpit. They are there to serve, not to be served. Get my meaning? |
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| November 03, 2008 |
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| The sad part is gifing is not supposed to be a position in the first place. Ministry is supposed to be an overflow of your life with Christ instead of a focal point of your life. Thats why so much that goes on is soulish. Man doing hat they think they should be doing. Fellowships become businesses and people defer to people for their spiritual conditions. |
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| November 03, 2008 |
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| gifting |
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| November 03, 2008 |
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The original pastors were to be directors, (shepherds) guiding the flock, making sure that order is kept. Todays church is all about the one man behind the pulpit. In the original fellowships, the believers took turns getting up and reading the Scriptures, giving testimonies, prophesy and praise. While the Bishop (pastor) took a back seat to the glory, and made sure that all glory was directed upward towards the Father. Is the shepherd above cleaning toilets, or other acts of servitude, NO. But I do agree with Pastor MM that the shepherd is called to be in prayer, seeking the face and will of the Father, but not while driving his Rolls Royce. Too often the church today is about how nice and big the building is. I Agree with Prophet Elder, that many are leaving the buildings that have become godless harlots to the world, and going to home churches. The deacons were put in place to care for the widows, fatherless and poor. So who is to clean the toilets then? EVERYONE. |
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| November 04, 2008 |
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Steve,
Again, if toilet cleaning is needed and I refuse to do it, that is prideful and a sin issue. However, if I choose to clean a toilet instead of share the gospel, or disciple a brother, or counsel some one in need then that also shows wrong priorities. As a church leader my job is equip the people of the church to do the ministry. This is what Eph 4:11-14 says. Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, & Shepherd-teachers (all leaders) are to equip God's people. The people are to do the work of service. The result when the leaders equip and the people serve is that God's body is built up to unity and and maturity.
I am saying that as we live that humble lifestyle we better be teaching others to do likewise or we are not living up to our calling. Perhaps we need to clean that toilet with someone =) |
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| November 04, 2008 |
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| Gary: You hit the nail on the head. Nowadays we often fail to be the church when we meet for church. |
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| November 04, 2008 |
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Great point, Steve. Let's set a time and meet somewhere. Seriously, that is a good point. |
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| November 04, 2008 |
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| its funny that word "calling"... many people seem to want to use it |
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| November 04, 2008 |
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| And the fact is -- all believers are called to serve others and to follow and obey Jesus every day. |
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