Carol  Hall
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Rebuilding Post-Election Bridges Among Evangelicals
||November 13, 2008|439 reads
 

To add a comment to "Rebuilding Post-Election Bridges Among Evangelicals"
Minister Of Poetry
November 13, 2008
AMEN CASBABE
Angela
November 13, 2008
 Thanks for posting this article, it's so true!
Brother Todd
November 13, 2008

I am grieved for our nation.  In retrospect this was a tough election year.  I disagree withi his conclusiong that it has calmed down because it hasn't but I agree we must for Christ sake work for reconcilliation.

prayunceasing
November 13, 2008
Thanks for posting, as Angela said it is so true. Now it for us to walk in Love of Jesus, and love the Lord more than ever.
MarJay HizWay
November 13, 2008
Powerful article and it carries a lot of weight and truth....but I'm afraid that we are just witnessing the calm BEFORE the storm!
Carol  Hall
November 13, 2008
Bro Todd...I think it has calmed down, but it feels superficial, like the turmoil is still there just under the surface; such as what Margie said - the calm is only before the storm....I hope (and mostly PRAY!) that we are wrong.

Stushi, Angela, Pray...Amen to all of you. We must model our actions after Jesus and walk in His love!
Angela
November 13, 2008
A BIG FAT AMENNNNNNN Carol!!!!!!
Tonya
November 13, 2008
I agree...the decision has been made...and we need to get on with building the Kingdom of God.  If there is one thing that I believe is evident though, based on the ISSUES of this election and it's outcome:  The people of our beloved Country has sought out a savior...and it isn't the one of the Bible:  Who is Jesus Christ
The days ahead will reveal much for a struggling Nation, Under God.

1 Sam 8:7-8
7 And the Lord said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
NKJV

1 Samuel 8:7-9
Even after witnessing the leadership of the Lord in stunning victory over the Philistines at Ebenezer, Israel demanded a fallible, human leader.
(from Bible Knowledge Commentary/Old Testament Copyright © 1983, 2000 Cook Communications Ministries; Bible Knowledge Commentary/New Testament Copyright © 1983, 2000 Cook Communications Ministries. All rights reserved.)

In Christ alone, I place my trust:  Be Glorified, my God and King!  Amen.
Carol  Hall
November 13, 2008
Tonya, you stated that much better than I did! I agree with you 100%.
The only peace I have comes from knowing that God is still on His throne, and I will place my trust in Him alone!!
Tonya
November 13, 2008
Carol ~   {{{love, love, love}}} I love you!  Never give up, put up, or shut up!  Jesus Christ is LORD!!!   {{{love, love, love}}}
Mike n Laura
November 13, 2008

I'm glad to say that today all my relationships are intact, and all my ministries are intact. Why? Because I treated my vote as a private matter, rather than risk alienating folks over disputable matters. I admit that I voted for G. Bush 8 yrs ago, and I wonder how much closer to God this nation is today than it was then. I fear the answer is, no closer, but rather, even farther away. Bush, the runaway choice of evangelicals for prez, did not bring our county back to God. So why the fervor over his election? Why the enthusiastic support? I know part of it is b/c he is pro-life. But we also aren't any closer as a nation to outlawing abortion than we were 8 yrs ago. I don't see the Christian enthusiasm for secular politics, I just don't.

Mike n Laura
November 13, 2008
ps... Interesting article, thanks for posting it Carol!!
Carol  Hall
November 13, 2008
Very wise comments, Mike! I definitely don't think we are any closer to outlawing abortion, in fact, I think we may now be on the verge of chipping away at the headway that we have made. I think that most of us would agree that keeping your vote private is the smart choice as far as keeping your relationships and ministries intact. What makes it hard for me, sometimes, is that I think everyone should feel as I do! My tongue is firmly-in-cheek as I write that, but then again...NOT! We all have strong opinions on who our elected officials should be, and as a Christian I base those thoughts solely on the Word of God. The problem with that is, even all Christians don't agree on interpretation of the Word and how it applies to choosing a leader. That's where my passion (in my case, I wouldn't really call it enthusiasm, per se) comes from...my desire to see Godly men and women in leadership positions that can change our nation for the better morally and biblically. While I consider issues such as health insurance, the economy, etc., my passion is to see change in areas where we have gone against God's Word; God's will; God's laws!

P.S. Thanks for commenting...didn't mean to get on my soapbox! : )
Tonya
November 13, 2008
Mike ~ You said:  "I don't see the Christian enthusiasm for secular politics, I just don't."

This is because, by in large, Christians have bought the lie that they don't belong in this sphere of authority, either in the voting realm or in office.

I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with Christians who imply that we ought to "hush up" and treat our vote as a "private matter."  What is wrong with showing support for a candidate who takes a stand for a Biblical issue:  Especially when it comes down to life or death!?!

Too, if we are to place the blame on "George Bush" or any other president for not solving this problem, we would be surely passing the buck. 

Please, I think what you are saying is dangerous to the church...  and it grieves me to hear of it.  If that is your choice, so be it.  Please be cautioned!

If what you are saying is right, then Dr. James Dobson and other great men an women, and God fearing advocates and organizations for social justice all over this country ought to go hang up their hats!
Carol  Hall
November 13, 2008
AMEN and AMEN, Tonya!! You go girl!!
Mike n Laura
November 13, 2008

Tonya, have you taken the time to speak with a Christian who supported the Democratic candidate for prez? (I'm partially playing devil's advocate, but I really am curious.) What were their reasons for supporting him?

 

Tonya
November 13, 2008

Mike ~ Yes I have.  In fact, I found that the economy ($$$) was the chief concern for both parties, while as you said, "disputable" or "secular" matters such as the problems with stem cell research, the protection of marriage, and the sanctity of life were hardly thought of as notable reasons to cast their ballot. 
I am greatly alarmed and grieved whenever I hear that Bible believing followers of Christ are propagating the idea that voting of these issues should be a private matter when there ought to be a vehement outcry and action taken by God's people to take a stand for God's position on these VERY CLEAR issues of good and evil.
Thank you for the question.

Mike n Laura
November 13, 2008

First, God's position on good and evil is not a political issue. His position is one of salvation vs. judgment. So which candidate was for salvation? Did either proclaim it? BOTH actually claim to be Christians, though neither claimed they would work to bring the USA back to God. Obama claimed to be a devout Christian here, among other places.  McCain has claimed to be a Christian too, though during the Saddleback Q&A, Obama's faith claims actually were far more convincing. So between the two main candidates, we have no clear "man of God", do we?

Regarding "God's position" on sanctity of life (abortion), THE ISSUE evangelicals are generally most interested in. Christians are often very emotionally invested in this issue. BUT how often have they (or YOU) done anything to help the cause other than cast a vote for the apparent "pro-life" presidential candidate? (And yet they get so outraged at the thought of Christians voting for the "other" candidate, the so-called "pro-abortion" candidate.) Sure, it makes Christians feel good to say they voted "pro-life", but how effective is this really at solving the problem? Wouldn't it be more effective to actually DO something, like help at a crisis pregnancy center, do sidewalk counseling outside of abortion clinics, adopt, etc.? And if the pro-life presidential candidate were elected, how much good would that really do? Well, here's a stab. Not much! We've had a pro-life president for the last 8 years, and precious little progress has been made nationally to eradicate the heinous practice of abortion in our land!

So I ask, as wonderful as the pro-life Christian conscience is, is it really worth ripping apart the body of Christ, and risking a lot of very good ministry, in order to take a public stand for a candidate who claims to support the biblical point of view on certain hot button issues? That's an awful lot of religious capital to put at risk for a "maybe" at best! The fact is, most of the time when politicians take their positions on these "hot button issues", they're only doing so to court your vote. They may or may NOT actually make working for those issues a priority if and when they get into office!

Frankly, it grieves me to see Christians get so fired up over politics. It just isn't worth the damage that's done to the church, to relationships, ministries, etc. How many seekers have been alienated by the church's politics? Furthermore, the issues they care about aren't political issues at all but social and moral issues, or really, issues of the heart!  Heck, the bible has a LOT to say about treating heart issues with law, you'd think we would know better by now!

By the way, I think a lot of James Dobson, but he did say at one time that he "would not vote for Jon McCain under any circumstances." Seems even he was confused at one time over exactly who God's candidate really was. 

So yes, I believe, legitimately, in a Holy Spirit-led manner, with a clear conscience before God, that politics, for the average Christian, should be a matter between them and God, and maybe a few close friends. Would it be great to elect a Christian into the White House? YOU BET!! And I hope that we just have. (Though don't assume you know who I voted for, I ain't tellin'!)

(sorry this is so long Carol!)

Carol  Hall
November 14, 2008
Tonya, I think you are right...this election, the hot topic was the economy.

Mike
, no apologies necessary! I am enjoying the dialog, and ironically agree with both of you! I think you made a very profound statement when you said: "Seems even he was confused at one time over exactly who God's candidate really was." I think that was the case for a lot of people during this election. I know from my own viewpoint, neither one of them stood out to me as "God's candidate." The one that I felt was most likely to be that was eliminated in the primary.

Grandmama, it was a very ugly election! Thankfully it's over!
Tonya
November 14, 2008
Mike ~ You presume too much.  Some of us, including myself, have been involved with crisis pregnancy center...etc. for years.

Secondly, there is a battle between good and evil, and it is played out too in the realm of politics.  You are a smart man, and can come across as very convincing...  but your blind to this issue.

As far as James Dobson is concerned, he stated in a letter to all those who respect his leadership, that... in a nutshell, he would support John McCain after it came down to just the two candidates:  It only makes sense to vote for the person who you think will best lead the country on the issues that matter to the people..and to the heart of God; issues of morality ~ good and evil.

It is evil to kill babies for medical science; to take a ilfe to save one.

It is evil to kill a baby in the womb, or out of the womb.

It is evil to change the definition of marriage to suit, accept, and support homosexuaity in our country.
 

The last issue  I would like to mention is the importance of what kind of judge will be appointed in our court system.  Since it is in the President's power to do so, I believe it is a very important matter to the future of this country to support the person who will least likely choose a liberal judge; Legislating from the bench is a real problem in our Nation.

I take men and women for their word.  If any candidate says that they will take a stand...  I will do my part to support them:  It is in God's hands from there on out.
Carol  Hall
November 14, 2008
Mike, Tonya raised a point that I meant to as well...many of us have done those things you mentioned. I have been an officer at the county and state level of Right to Life, have counseled, done volunteer work for a center, etc. I would never presume that voting for a self-proclaimed pro-life candidate would be enough - there is too much work to be done!

Tonya, you raised good points above. The way I like to say it is that God's laws, whether regarding homosexuality, abortion, marriage as defined by God - none of His laws change just because we refuse to acknowledge them or abide by them. They are what they are, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Evil is evil, and God is God.
Mike n Laura
November 14, 2008
Carol, you posted a wonderful article on the election, and the damage it has done to the church. This is very much my point of view, that too many Christians invest their time and emotion into political campaigns, rather than the issues they claim to care about -- abortion, marriage issues, stem cells, etc. (There are exceptions, like you and Tonya...who I commend for your wonderful work on behalf of the unborn.) Unfortunately, these political allegiances end up having negative impacts on the unity of the body, which we read in scripture was VERY important to our Lord Jesus. I am very conservative-minded, but refuse to pronounce a word of judgment against any of my brothers and sisters who voted for Obama, preferring instead to strive for unity with my eternal brethren. 

After all, Jesus said "May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." What does the world think when they see us bickering, pointing accusing fingers, tossing around angry and hurtful words, over....worldly power and authority?

Some Christians would say I am deceived, having bought into a lie. I would suggest that anyone who lets a temporal election of questionable profit to the kingdom of God destroy the unity of the body and interfere with the church's mission is actually the one who has bought a lie. Think about the fruit!

Some Christians judge their brothers and sisters for what they did at the ballot box, seeing the social & spiritual problems of our nation as political issues. As I see it, there is no clear dividing line in our recent election between good and evil. One candidate may be against outlawing abortion, yet in favor of doing the Lord's work of helping the orphan and the widow, freeing people from the bondage of poverty, and working to remove racial barriers in society. The other candidate, though he may be in favor of outlawing abortion, may also favor policies that hinder racial equality, keep people in bondage to poverty, and ignore the orphan and the widow. (A confusing mess! So many shades of gray!!!)

We need to approach the issue with our head as much as our heart. I love my brothers and sisters, and they are certainly entitled to their convictions in the political realm. All I would ask is that they don't judge others for theirs, and believe me, the Spirit has convicted plenty of believers on BOTH sides of the man-made, temporal political aisle.

Thanks again for posting this article Carol!
Carol  Hall
November 14, 2008
Mike, you summarized above my whole point for posting this! I am also very conservative minded, and I don't mind telling you that I didn't vote for Obama. BUT...there are many, many shades of gray, and many other issues that are of importance to Christians other than the ones that are my particular "hot buttons." As I said, your comment - "...these political allegiances end up having negative impacts on the unity of the body, which we read in scripture was VERY important to our Lord Jesus."...was the whole reason I posted this: unity, bridge-building, and love for our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.