Powerful blog Mike...God IS a Sovereign God and He moves when and how HE wants to move.  I am a living witness that He IS a Supernatural Healer, and then there are other times when I've had to go to doctors to receive healing, and after 7 times of being put to sleep, I stand today my brother every wit whole.  Back in 1982 I went to a sister at church to believe with me for a miracle of healing for a condition that I had.  I had already had 2 operations for this problem, and was suffering with an open wound that would not heal.  I had to pack gauze into it every day, but it would not heal.  At this point I was tired of doctors and I chose to TRUST GOD.  We went to prayer meeting...she called my name out to the Lord and I RECEIVED my healing BY FAITH.  From that day forward I began to verbally confess my healing, and called it to be so in the Name of Jesus....My wedding day was in 6 months and I wanted my condition healed on my wedding night. (smile)...Well I can assure you, my faith was tested....It did not heal right away...but I kept calling the condition healed, even though in the natural it did not appear to be so.  Well I am hear to declare that a WEEK BEFORE my wedding...the wound closed up completely and I have not had a problem with that condition since....prior to this I had many...many trips to the emergency room for minor surgery...and had to be put to sleep twice for this condition....but I say all of that to say this...I came to JESUS....He was WILLING....and I AM HEALED....If He did it once....He surely can DO IT AGAIN ;o)

In His perfect will, we are whole--the Shalom principle (nothing missing, nothing broken) and I believe the key is that His will for us includes the entirety of our faith--the finished product. I have seen people be accused of a lack of faith when miraculous healing does not come forth, and it saddens me because we can't know what is working in the unseen. Only God has the entire scoop on that. How dare we tread into His domain with our small minded perspectives! Blessings, Bother! Great blog!  

   Look at the examples of who were taking the Kingdom of God forcibly.

   The best being the Woman with the issue of blood. She fought through the Spiritual realm to believe she deserved a healing ( it is written). She fought through the Emotional-Soulish realm ( the law said she could not go out in public etc. etc.) She fought through the Physical realm to get through the crowd to touch the hem of Jesus's garment( she got fed-up righteously violent enough to get it, not settling for less).
   And the Greek verb in that verse projected the thought on into the future tense also. (from the days....till now.....and on into the future....).

   I have not yet arrived to the level attainable, but I see the next step for me !

   God is indeed Sovereign, but He will not deny His Word. The physical realm is our learning center for now.

This is something I have wrestled with a lot.  I have watched friends and family die, after heartily praying for healing, I have seen their faith and still they were not healed.  Just recently, a you know, my cat died from kidney failure, and I truly believed (and still do) that God could have healed him if he had chosen to.  He didn't answer my prayers the way I wanted them answered, but He answered them by giving me more time with my cat than the vet predicted.  He may not always answer the way that we want, but He answers with what He knows is best for us.  And we have to trust Him in faith.

who forgives all your sins  
       and heals all your diseases  
(Psalm 103:2-3)

Yet believers in David's day all eventually died physically too, just like they do today. Our physical bodies are decaying as they await the final redemption. John saw this in his vision, "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." (Rev. 21:4)  The prophet Isaiah also looked ahead, to a time when "he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces" (Isaiah 25:8)

Thanks for your thoughts, I deeply appreciate your compassionate heart!

Dear Mike and everyone:

I'm thinking that this is one of your hot buttons.  I seem to remember seeing the following line (about lack of faith) drawn in the sand in at least one other of your posts:

Mike wrote:

Dare anyone assert that this gentlemen, or worse, his daughter, lacked faith in God, simply because his Alzheimers returned??

That precludes the discussion of the possibility without the danger of causing offense.  Rather I'll ask: Did God tell you why his Alzheimers returned?

First I'd like to point out that there is a major difference between a lack of faith in God and a lack of faith that a given answer of prayer or that a promise is ours in the present tense.  The phrase turns the whole question into some sore of assignment of guilt or a blame game.  It feels liked the question: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"  A simple yes or no will never do.

Lest we follow Job's example, I believe that we must be very careful that we justify God and not ourselves or our friends that we love.  I'm doing my best here just to speak from my own perspective and what I believe the Lord has shown me concerning these things—this isn't a debate.  I'll speak to any honest question and reason from the scriptures but I will not debate (dispute or argue about) this.

I'm going to begin with a different subject frankly because it is much easier for us to accept responsibility for our failures than the current one; and that is concerning living a life that is free from sinning.  Romans 6 begins with:

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

That's the burning question that haunts any serious believer who desires to walk blameless before God.  It's also clear from the following verses, and also from my 33 years of Christian experience that the vast majority of Christians do not live a victorious Christian life with respect to sin because of ignorance!  It has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of faith in God!!!

The things that contribute to that ignorance are deception and teaching that does not line up with what's written; also the weakness of our own flesh, a lack of understanding concerning how to abide in Christ, how to walk in the Spirit, and may other things.  No one can lay the blame solely at the feet of "a lack of faith in God."  Nor, can anyone dare to say that it is God's will for anyone to continue to live in sin.  Yet there are countless Christians who use Romans 7 to justify our own continuance in sin.  Even that, we cannot lay directly at the feet of "a lack of faith in God." It's still ignorance and a lack of understanding.

Romans 6:6-7
We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Romans 6:11
So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

All these things (and I could quote 1 John, etc.) are all very truth of very truth and yet we still have occasion to have to confess our sins to God.  Has our faith failed?  Never!  Have we lost our focus and set our minds on earthly things, there by rebuilding what we had once destroyed?  Maybe!  When faced with a temptation did we doubt?  Maybe!  When we were tempted did we fail to mix the word that we had heard with faith?  Maybe!

I love an illustration used by David Ravenhill in his book: Surviving the Anointing. He speaks to the fact that when we go on a vacation cruise we are all called out to practice putting on our life jackets and going to our assigned lifeboat stations.  The instructor never says: "We have to do this so that when the ship sinks you'll know what to do!”  He always says: "We have to do this so that if the ship sinks you'll know what to do!"  There are countless Christians who view sinning as a "when" and not an "if." [1 John 2:1; 1 John 3:4-10]

All of the difficulties of walking these things out directly apply to the subject of healing, answered prayer, speaking to mountains, or receiving any promise from God.  I'll venture to say that almost all our failures can be laid at the feet of ignorance, misunderstanding, confusion, and finally at double mindedness. "Why did you doubt?" is always a possibility!  Jesus could not do [and it was God in Him doing the works, Acts 2:21] many mighty works in his hometown!

Mark 5:6

And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. And he marveled because of their unbelief.

A number of times Jesus rebuked the disciples for their hardness of heart and for their unbelief [Mark 6:14].  So are we going to stumble and fall away if He rebukes us for our hardness of heart and our unbelief?  Or are we so perfect that we never have this problem?

I'll conclude with this:

1 Corinthians 11:30-32
That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

So here's the question: if the Lord told us, through some person, that this was the reason that someone we loved was weak and ill, and others had died, would we stone them to death?  Would we take offense and justify ourselves and our loved ones and then condemn the one who told us the truth?  So discipline is also a possibility.

And last but not least:

John 4:52
So he asked them the hour when he began to get better, and they said to him, "Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him."

So not everyone was healed instantly.  When I went to one of Andrew Wommack's meetings in Colorado, for a week on vacation with my family; we saw 80% of the people receive an instant healing.  One of the major differences in how he teaches and in what he does is that he begins by pointing out the fact that Jesus never prayed for the sick.  He almost always spoke to the mountain.  And after thanking God for what He had done in Christ Andrew would speak to the condition and then ask the person if there was any change.  If there wasn't he would speak to the condition again and continue to minister to the person until there was a result. I've never seen another minister do that except John Wimber years ago.  Most pray and then move on to the next person…almost no one speaks to the mountain.  Why?  I believe it's because it focuses the attention on us and whether we actually believe what we are doing is on our own initiative or because that is what we see the Father doing!!!  It's easy to pray and then blame God if there is no result!

Bless the Lord Oh my soul and forget none of His benefits!  Who forgives all your iniquities and who heals all of your diseases!

Faith is the evidence of things hoped for, things not seen!  Faith is looking at the unseen, not the seen.  If the healing manifests then faith is over.  Personally, I'm going to believe God heals all my diseases and if I die sick I'm going to die in faith and so join those who did the same in Hebrews 11—by God's grace alone.

No one can point to a single occasion where Jesus refused to heal a single person because it wasn't God's will to heal them.  But we can point to numerous places where we are told why people were not healed and even why some got sick and even died.  I think it’s a very slippery slope to try and oversimplify all this by saying it's only due to a lack of faith or because God doesn't will it: it almost always has to do with justifying ourselves and not God!

Sincerely,
Craig

GrammyB, thanks for stoppin by!

Tom, I would hope that you can always count on gracious comments from me. Given the two concrete examples provided in the blog, of Paul's inability to cure friends of illnesses, I'm comfortable with where I'm at scripturally speaking. I agree w/you that God wants miraculous healing to be the norm in our assemblies, just as he is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."(2 Pet 3:9) It seems to me that it is easy, and cruel, to blame illness on those who suffer, rather than attribute it to a universal condition (sin) which, though taken care of at the cross, still awaits its ultimate conclusion (2 Cor. 5:1-5). I appreciate your comments, my friend.

Lori, it is one thing to discuss this issue on an online forum. Harmless! But it can be downright dangerous when the theology you advocate is put into practice. By sickness, do you stop at common everyday things like colds and flu? Chicken pox and ear infections? Or how about Lyme Disease, or perhaps hepatitus, AIDS, etc.?

Do you include Type 1 Diabetes? If so, you might dig up a copy of the book  We Let Our Son Die, by Larry Parker. I'm not kidding, this theology not only can kill people, it has. This is the story about Lucky and Larry Parker (seriously, take a moment to visit this link), who deprived their diabetic son of insulin therapy at the urging of a faith teacher. Their boy died shortly thereafter, and they were charged with manslaughter. Warning, I wouldn't be too quick to presume these people lacked faith, when you don't even know them.

Ken, AMEN to that! He certainly is able. Faith in God that perseveres through all is a strong faith indeed!

Craig, I thank you for your comment, and deeply appreciate the time you took to share with us your heart on this topic. I don't have time now for a full response, not that I would necessarily have much of one. We'll see later. God bless!

ps... Just to reiterate, ALL comments thus far are appreciated! Thanks MC family!

Thanks Mike!

Sorry to butt in here on your discussion with Lori, but I'd like to point out that she wasn't talking about someone other than herself.  Presumption is a very real possibility and I believe that comes from being tempted by the Devil to "prove" that we believe.  Thus Jesus was told by God the Father that He was His Son and then the Devil tempted Him with the worlds "If you are the Son of God...".

We are never, never, never to act from that position.  And, by the way, I'm sure if I look around I can find plenty of counter examples of where things did work out for people who had faith for their children and loved ones over-and-against what the doctor was saying by way of prognostication; but I can't think of any where they refused medical treatment or medication as a proof of faith. Let's just say that it is better walk this stuff out against our own "cold", our own "flu", etc., rather than our kids.  All I know is I want to fight the bear and lion before I get to Goliath!

After getting back from Andrew Wommack's meetings I saw my (then) 10 year old son instantly healed at least ten different times.  Mostly of headaches, but also of a sore throat and cold. But I noticed that as time went on it happened less and less and that he never moved into the place where he didn't depend upon my faith.  As far as me laying hands on my wife...I've never seen her instantly healed; and I do think it has to do with our own relationship with God and pressing into the things He has provided in Christ.  I cannot believe for anyone but myself and I dare not act on my own initiative with respect to whether someone else takes medicine or goes to the doctor or not.  If I believed that I believed in my heart that I was to stop taking my medicine I would...but to apply that to my wife or sons is not scriptural.  I don't see any instance of that in scripture.

Thanks!
Craig

Craig, good points. Of course, I suppose we could stop taking the insulin treatments ourselves, and "jeopardize" our own lives instead of others. But the road of health/prosperity now (as opposed to spiritual regeneration now & physical when the Lord's plan finally culminates) is an ever widening road, and once you encourage ppl to claim it by faith for themselves, it's a short leap to claiming it for your children, family, friends, etc. Someone did point out above the story of the guy lowered through the ceiling and healed by his friends' faith after all.

I too am excited along with you when the Lord gets involved directly. But lets not go off accusing ppl of unbelief simply b/c they suffer from Lymes, or MS, or any other such thing. We look forward to receiving our glorified bodies, when disease truly can't touch us any longer. In the meantime, I pray "if you are willing, you CAN, Lord." 

BTW, well-known faith healer Kathryn Kuhlman claimed to be able to cure any disease through faith, yet somehow ended up dying of heart disease. Apparently her faith was no match for God's will. ;-)

Mike, you wrote:

BTW, well-known faith healer Kathryn Kuhlman claimed to be able to cure any disease through faith, yet somehow ended up dying of heart disease. Apparently her faith was no match for God's will. ;-)

Which absolutely proves that the power is not of ourselves but the One who does the healing. :-)  I'm just as concerned that the interjection of doubt into people about the fact that God has provided for healing in the sacrifice of His Son, will force people to live with Lyme, or MS, etc., until they are resurrected.  :-)

For more that a hundred years, in America, almost no one was healed of anything because we were taught that "in this dispensation" God no longer heals or gives gifts of the Spirit, etc.  And, people believed that in their heart and for them it proved to be absolutely true.  Augustine, in his youth, was the father of Cessationism; in his old age he documented some 72 healings that happened in his own assembly.  :-) 

If I remember correctly Jesus' response to "If you are willing," in Greek, is more appropriately interpreted: "Of course I'm willing!"  :-)

On the other-hand, I'm not implying that someone with MS should feel guilty about it, but why not mix our faith with the word: [Romans 8:11] "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, then He who raised Christ [anointed] Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."  Faith is always seeing the unseen and is always associated with hope.  I have no problem with saying to the Father that I have my doubts about whether He is willing to heal me, but I also know that I will never be healed until I hear Him say: "Of course I am!" Because faith is believing we have received before we see any change in the temporal.  Just like the prayer of Danial was answered the moment he prayed but it took three weeks before he saw it in the natural.

And I believe that doesn't have anything to do with pretending that we have received the manifiestation or pretending that we are healed when we aren't.  Pretending is dangerous because it is not believing with our heart! It has to do with actually hearing from God that we have what we have asked for--when we prayed, not when it is granted.  This is the great stumbling block for people!  It is at this very point the battle is joined with folks saying that is always a deception (it maybe if we're pretending), but it is always the way you hear folks talk who do receive that miracle.  It isn't about putting a guilt trip on people; it's about encouraging folks to press into God who is the answer.

I personally know a Missionary who's adopted son was completely healed of Aids...and it was through much travail and when He refused to just let the child die: he would not give up but clung to the promise that God is not willing that any perish.  You may say that that is a misapplication of scripture but God must not have thought so or Danny Curle's son would not be alive today.  In Africa there is no reasonable alternative to faith...in America there are plenty.  It's just a fact that when we're faced with no other choice it makes it much easier to focus on God and His word. 

But yes, I think it's often too late to build a foundation on the word when the storm has already come.  That doesn't have anything to do with our salvation.  It's just that we can't pretend that we are different than all the folks in Jesus' day with respect to all these things.  Because of the woman with the issue of blood, it is said in other verses that all who touched the edge of his robe where healed.  So that begs the question: how many were healed that didn't mix the word that they heard about the woman with their faith and press through the crowd?  I'm thinking that probably none.

So I'd rather fall on the side of encouraging people to press into the Lord than to make them feel comfortable in the state that they currently find themselves in...especially if it involves matching their doctrine with their condition to justify the current state of affairs. 

The complexity of all this is a clear indication that we cannot reduce everything to some simple formula; a ten step algorithm that we apply to try and control things.  It's all about relationship and moving from faith to faith and glory to glory.  So wherever you fall in this discussion: press on toward that high calling in Christ Jesus!

So the good news is that this blog shows us the different perspectives that exist with respect to healing...and each one must be convinced in their own heart...for whatever does not come from faith is sin.

Sincerely,
Craig

P.S.  Good point Pastor Dave! 

"It's all about relationship and moving from faith to faith and glory to glory."

Craig, a hearty amen to that! Your perspective certainly seems to be a balanced one to me, I appreciate reading it. I can understand and appreciate your admonition to  "encourage people to press into the Lord rather than to make them feel comfortable in the state that they currently find themselves in." (Though I don't know too many folks who are really comfortable with their illness.) I am able to accept and rejoice with fellow believers who have been miraculously healed as well as those still waiting for their healing, without passing judgment. Together we are all still looking forward to the full prize, for none of us receives everything the Lord has in store for us in the here and now.... i.e. we have a shared hope. Amen?

Thanks again for your comments Craig. And Dave THANKS bro, so glad you jumped in here with us!!

Lori, awesome story!  And thanks for speaking to "belief" contrasting that with faith...a wonderful insight! I won't forget that (Lord willing!).

One of my favorites Jimmie!  And so we glory in these things because His power is made perfect in weakness: so that it is clearly to be seen to be of God and not of ourselves. [That's this one logically "and" with 2 Cor 4:6-12]

2 Corinthians 4:6-11
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

So this begs the question: when suffering how is our suffering different than the suffering of anyone else in any other religion or even the suffering of a person who has a very positive attitude.  What clearly demonstrates something that is described as surpassing greatness of power?

But I'm thinking that the quote of 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 wasn't to point that out, but rather "infirmities."  Again, I'm not attempting to say that infirmities are anything more or less that a glorious opportunity for God to glorify Himself in our bodies through Christ.  You are not going to hear me talking about faith as if it is the coin of the kingdom or as moving God, or anything to that affect...because that is all about a self manufactured faith; about a focus on an imaginary "faith" that has more to do with New Age, positive confession, and positive thinking, and as a "method" to control ones circumstances and/or God.  Genuine faith is about God not about being focused on ourselves.

If there is nothing that happens at our assemblies except that which can be explained in terms of man's abilities then we are not talking about what God is doing but about what men are doing for God.  That's why some hate the manifestations of the Spirit...because we cannot control them, cannot make them happen, and so we explain them away so that we can congratulate ourselves and say that nothing is wrong.  Does our faith rest on the demonstration of the Spirit with power or on the persuasive words and wisdom of men?

So I may quote 1 Corinthians 13 to say that God has done away with gifts of the Spirit--completely ignoring the exhortations of the last verse of the preceding chapter and the first verse of the succeeding chapter.  And, I then may find every verse in the New Testament that refers to infirmity or sickness...for what purpose? To say that people got sick or that God doesn't heal everyone?  Or both?  And so what is my motivation for doing that?  What is its fruit?  What faith does that edify?  What hope does that give?  I don't think it gives much hope unless you point to the perfection of power, the manifestation of the life of Christ that goes with it; the death before the resurrection.

I absolutely know where this discussion has the potential of going and I absolutely can speak to every issue...but it will matter not for some and will greatly encourage others to not let go of their hope in the glory of God.  Lori gave us a testimony of her experience and it will now be discounted, made irrelevant, and then be beaten into the ground...for what purpose?

There is absolutely no problem with infirmities or with having them...the problem is with not following that with the hope and expectation that that person will see the surpassing greatness of God's power being manifest as a result.  Lori has an experience...its too late to talk her out of it!  Of all the times I've been sick and not healed I've never once been told by the Lord that it was because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations I've been given!  ;-)  Nor has the Lord ever come and condemned me because I had the flu or because I took medicine or because I've gone to the doctor...but He has encouraged me to trust in what God has done in the New Covenant with respect to all these things.  When I stumble He not there waiting with a large stick to beat me into the ground.  And He has said to me "Why did you doubt?"  So my question is: Why hasn't He ever said that to you!

The sower sows the word...the word does not change but the results vary. I don't think Jesus meant that as a condemnation of bad ground but rather to focus on the fact that it isn't a word problem and it isn't a God problem.

Best regards,
Craig

Mike,

I find myself agreeing with you as usual, and seeing certain aspects of your topic in a new way as always.  More than anything, I continue to learn a great deal from you about how to respond graciously to others in both agreement and disagreement.  Thanks for your example!

Michael and Kellie: I was thinking the same thing. I think our friend Mike has a gift that we can all learn from.

By the way, Mike, I was watching Jack Van Impe last night in the middle of the night and he had radiation treatment for cancer. I never knew that. That man knows the word by heart and he didn't think it wrong to seek medical treatment. I felt better about my upcoming appointments. I want to be in faith but I will be going to my doctors as planned. 

Yes Michael, who knows. But he did. Certainly Trophimus didn't want to be ill. None of us do. But as you correctly state, illness may have a purpose which we may not understand at the time...

 Thank you for your comment, Michael.

Mike,

I did not say that illness has a purpose. I said that when illness is present, through that illness God can prove himself strong. There is a difference.

I believe in the verses you quoted Paul is talking about the physical wounds he suffered because of previous beatings in Lystra. (Acts 14). The KJV says "The Gospel I preached to you at the first"

He is pleading with them as to why they had once accepted when he came to them with cuts and bruises, results of being stoned, yet now that he was well they have turned their backs on the Gospel he preaches.

But hey, what am I doing in this conversation anyway? I was determined to just sit back and take in others thoughts on the subject, which were quite interesting I might add.

Matthew 6:10 however, and the fact that Jesus taught us that God's will is possible here on this earth, speaks volumes to me.

Also, we have been commanded to Heal the Sick. It would be unjust for God to give us a command that was not His will to fulfill.

See ya!

Nobody said God's will isn't possible here. In fact, the blog was all about God's will vs. ours. Remember, "if you are willing". Some simply differ on what his will is. Is it for everything now, or some now and more later.

I'm so glad we share this hope!!

I had determined that I would not post to this blog any longer and I sent a message to Mike saying as much…not due to any offence but because I didn't have peace to continue.  But as you can see I am posting something…I woke up in the middle of the night and this blog was the subject of my very early morning meditations and prayer.  And so I do have peace to post this.

So I do have some questions for Mike, Jimmy, and especially for Pastor Tim.  Have you personally ever been healed of any disease instantly?  How many people have you laid hands upon and have seen instantly healed or healed in such a way that there is absolutely no doubt that it was God: a hundred, ten, or even one? How many Muslims and Hindus have you had come to the Lord through your ministry Tim?

What really grieves me is that the Lord sent us, in effect, the woman with the issue of blood [Lori] that was healed and her testimony was seemingly discounted. People were in effect told that it would be rash and dangerous to follow her example: to press through the crowds surrounding Jesus telling everyone to shut up and stop troubling the Master, to expect Him to do exactly the same as was done for her [Lori]!  Nothing has changed...the violent take the kingdom by force…they have heard the testimony of others and dare to believe that God is no respecter of persons and found it to be so.  Their witness is refuted and counter examples are dragged out in an attempt to justify the status quo.

The fact that God even heals the flu was—from my perspective—maligned. I personally was told by the Lord, against what I wanted to do in myself and my feelings, to go lay hands on and pray for a co-worker who had the flu.  [I was working in a refrigerated produce warehouse for Eagle Stores in Houston in the late 70's]  I laid my hands on him and prayed a prayer of faith and actually felt the power flow through my hand into him.  Twenty minutes later he jumped from his Barrett (machine for hauling produce pallets) and ran over to me saying "My ears just popped and my congestion is gone!  My shoulder is sore where you laid your hand on me!"  That was a witness before all the men in that warehouse; the man's name is Mark Divorak and he later became a Christian through someone else.  Somehow he didn't despise getting healed from the flu!  Somehow the Lord didn't despise healing him of the flu…in fact it was at the Lord's initiative.

Now when I got the flu did the Lord heal me in 20 minutes?  NO!  And so what did that prove to me?  That it was not ME.  I've seen my son healed instantly numerous times but not my wife even once…and what does that prove to me?  That it is not ME.  That it isn't some sort of algorithm or method or something that "I" work up.  HE gets all the glory.

So Pastor Tim, Mike, Jimmy, have you ever had the Lord lead you to lay hands on and pray for a man with terminal cancer of the esophagus who was being fed through a tube into his stomach and he was able to eat through his mouth the very next day?  That man was a relative of my wife, the son of an Assembly of God Minister.  I say was, because the cancer did come back and he did die from it.  And what did I learn from that?  A number of things including the fact that a person who is healed needs to change their mind about the life they were living before they became ill.  He just went right back to what he was doing in the first place; living his own life, his own way, for his own pleasure.

Again the question: Has the Lord healed anyone of anything through you at any time? Either instantly or by way of recovery?

It seems to me that not only have we become Jesus' hometown but some few of us are going around telling the folks that were not healed that it was because it wasn't God's will to heal them.  How very tragic and sad that is!  May God have mercy upon us!

So does Juanita attend a "physical" church that any of you go to?  Have any of you determined in your heart to go and lay hands on Juanita and pray a prayer of faith for her healing?

I encourage Juanita to go to her doctor too…but right here and right now I go before God our Father through Jesus our Lord and I ask that He might receive the fruit of His suffering and that He might be glorified in Juanita's body and that no earthly man, called a doctor, will get any glory at all for the healing.  That's my prayer for Juanita.

What we believe in our hearts betrays us by what we do.  If we didn't believe that it was God will for us to be healed then we wouldn't be going to the doctor in the first place would we?  We wouldn't want to resist His will if He is being glorified by our weakness itself and not his power being manifest in it.  We would glorify God by saying sick…but we know in our hearts that, that isn't true and so we turn to the physicians.

While my sons were in a Christian School playing soccer there was a 16 year old girl that was throwing up on the sideline.  I saw her and went to the coach and asked about her, he said that her parents had been called and were on their way.  I went to her and asked her if anyone had prayed for her.  She said no.  How tragic that a sick 16 year old girl can be in the midst of two Christian Church School teams with all the team members and sets of parents from two teams present and no one even thought about laying hands on her and praying for her except me.

All this just makes me cry.

Hi all, I was in jail ministry tonight so got home late to read a bit more here. I first of all thank Mike for such an interesting blog to bring out the comments and as always I seek the Lord before applying anything to my life.

I have witnessed healings, experienced healings and laid hands on others and saw them healed. I have been saved for 33 years. When my husband died in 2000, I went to see his body, alone, before cremation. No one else did. His daughter was going to but ran out before hand. I went because I had to lay my hands on him to see if God would raise him. When my 21 year old son shot the top of his head off ten months later, my family begged me not to see him. The by law autopsy was already performed because it was suicide. I demanded to. I had buried a baby I never got to see 22 years earlier. I was refused the right to see him because Jamin (baby) was anencephalic and the top of his head never formed. They thought he would be to monsterous to view. I wanted to lay hands on him. So, I went to see Landon (suicide ) and they had his head swathed in a sheet and his body covered in one. I laid my hands on him and prayed and prayed. He did not rise but I did what I needed to do. I was given the chance. 

Right now, my doctor thinks something is wrong with me and has ordered tests. I had polyps removed from my colon that was precancerous and polyps from my uterus that were benign as well as having a ovary removed because of a polyp around it. Two of these were in the past eighteen months and now I have something I can feel constantly that hurts from lower left to my back with just occasional let ups when distracted but has made me nauseated at times from the twisting and contractions. At other times it is dull. So, I have been praying but felt it right to go to folks who are trained to know what that could mean. 

I have a friend who is paralyzed and prayed and laid hands on him but he still is in a wheelchair and glorifying the Lord like our Minister of Poetry does so well. I will not let up praying for them both.

I read this from the chain of posts: So does Juanita attend a "physical" church that any of you go to?  Have any of you determined in your heart to go and lay hands on Juanita and pray a prayer of faith for her healing?

I encourage Juanita to go to her doctor too…but right here and right now I go before God our Father through Jesus our Lord and I ask that He might receive the fruit of His suffering and that He might be glorified in Juanita's body and that no earthly man, called a doctor, will get any glory at all for the healing.  That's my prayer for Juanita. 

I am very moved by this prayer but no, no one on this chain goes to my church in Moyock. I have not asked those at Moyock Assembly of God to annoint me either. I will talk to my pastor about it. That is something that I should have done weeks ago. 

I am separated sorta from my husband and attend church there when I drive the three hours to see him. I don't go every week. I have had so many distractions with that and personal failures in rising debts that I had not really placed this healing as my priority but more of a burden. Then on Wednesday a week ago, my specialist told me I need to take the high road on this as it was not something to ignore. Guess it got me. I posted a blog about it. 

So, all that to say, I am thankful for the debate. I will keep my appointments, ask you to continue to lift me in prayer and will speak to my pastor as well. I am spending the next few days with my husband and will be in my home church on Sunday.

Now, I can lay down and grab some sleep. Peaceful dreams await. 

Time and time again we are urged in scripture to celebrate the spiritual transformation that occurs in this life (starting with being born again, then continuing with our sanctification) and look forward with hope to the eventual physical transformation that will occur with our exit from this place.

Lori, I appreciate your heart, and your experience of healing. I don't recall denigrating or discounting it either. My blog wasn't about the issue of healing so much as it was about the way we approach God. Faith in God is enough, being able to say from a heart of belief, "God I believe you can" is enough, to secure whatever gifts God is willing to give.

Our next door neighbors, elderly believers, recently prayed earnestly, "God we believe you can". They have few possessions left to their name, having gone bankrupt a few years ago. (They live on their son's generosity and a meager monthly soc sec check.) They both traveled to Todd Bentley's healing revival, at great expense (they couldn't afford it), to seek healing for various ailments. Neither was healed of anything. Did they lack faith? Was it due to their unbelief? NO, certainly not. But they went, and now they have a thousand dollars less to spend on dentist, meds, and other things they need to maintain their health. This I have a problem with. THIS, along with the story of the Parkers which I linked above, is why I say the doctrine that God will always heal when we come in faith can be a risky doctrine to perpetuate.

God bless, thanks again for commenting.

Crystal, thank you for posting your comment! I too believe in healing. I believe God can heal both naturally and supernaturally, depending on his will. Most of the time, it appears he heals through natural means (doctors, medicines, etc.). But don't mistake that as God's not being involved!

May I also say, that although it's true no instance can be found in scripture of Jesus refusing healing, this is not a valid/conclusive argument for God healing everyone today who comes with "the right amount of faith". To say someone will always do something b/c there's no record of them refusing to do it in the past is not a valid/conclusive argument. That would be like you saying I will ALWAYS respond to your emails b/c I've never refused to respond before. Or another example. There are also no instances in scripture of Jesus refusing requests to calm storms. But does anyone think that this means God will calm every storm if we ask in faith?

I agree entirely w/you that we should not criticize the sick, b/c they "lack healing faith". They are already afflicted, why must the body of Christ risk adding to their misfortune? 

God bless you, sister.

Mike, and everyone: I believe that if we walk out Romans 6 through 8 we will then be in a position to answer many of our questions in this area too.  Because, in the area of sanctification, it is much clearer that no one can say that it isn't God's will that they walk without continuing in sin; that we are all very dead to sin, very dead to law, and all have been immersed into death and therefore have been set free from sin.  There are lots of things to learn in the adventure of walking that out...but one major thing is: we will never be left with doubt about whether God will provide a way of escape for every temptation to sin, nor are we left with any way to blame God for our own fulfillment of any desire of the flesh.

We have lots of failures and trials walking all this out but, because God is faithful and just to forgive and cleans us of all sin, when we confess them...we usually get past the place of feeling condemned on those occasions when we fail.  Although we can all point to people who use Romans 7 as justification for their failures.  This is a much "safer" area to walk all this out because failures do to ignorance, unbelief, or doubt, do not result in anything more than a moral failure...while the same cannot be said in these other areas.

If I say to someone "It's your fault that you failed!" It may well cause them to enter condemnation, or to possibly take offense, or even to fall away!  The fact that I don't speak the truth with love does not change the truth.  If you're like me you  may have spent years in the forgiveness-failure-condemnation cycle.  Then we had further revelation about what God has done in Christ, we mixed our faith with that, and we broke out of the condemnation phase and failures became fewer and farther apart.  If this is true of sanctification how can we think it would be different in these other areas as well?

Something to ponder anyway.  :-)

Yours in Him,
Craig 

Blessings!
Craig

Thanks Craig, your input is appreciated!

Crystal, there is most definitely a link between sin and sickness (James 5:14-16; 1 Corinthians 11:30; Romans 8), but not always, and not necessarily, a direct link (John 9:3). As for those who are mentally unable to believe and comprehend for themselves, this is a mystery to me. I trust God, who is "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness...and forgiving" (Ex 34:6-7) to be merciful and just. I'm glad I do not have to understand everything!

SO AM I. WE HAVE GOTTEN INTO SOME GOOD BIBLE STUDIES ON THIS SUBJECT,  BUT AS LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPIONION. SEEMS THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN'T AGREE TO DISAGREE.. ALL I KNOW IS THAT GOD IS GOD AND HE WILL DO WHAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO. THIS IS A WONDERFUL TOPIC AND I WOULD LOVE TO UNDERSTAND MORE. I THINK WE ALL WOULD. WHAT GETS ME IS THAT PEOPLE MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED AND I DON'T THINK THAT GOD WANTED IT THAT WAY.  

Mike,

"What is written in the Law and how do you read it?"  This is how Jesus responded to a certain lawyer who tempted Him.  This same question could be asked of each of us.  The bible is "what is written" and hermeneutics is "how you read it".

After I got saved again, my then future wife told me what "Full Gospel" meant.  "Full Gospel" is a way-to-read the scriptures that is practiced by "Word of Faith" or "Ramah" type denominations.  "Full Gospel" is based on 2 Cor. 1:20, which says:

The New International Version says it this way: "For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God."

"Full Gospel", therefore, insists that any promise made to anyone anywhere in the scriptures is ours.  God promised that desert (known as Israel) to Abraham and His seed.  I'm his seed and any promise made to anyone is a promise made to me.  This being the case, therefore, we can name the promise and claim it with the authority of Jesus.  It's where we get "Name it and claim it" Christianity.  The "Prosperity Gospel" depends on this form of hermeneutics.

"Full Gospel" also leans heavily on the doctrine "God is no respecter of persons".  What God has done for one, He must do for another (all things being equal).

Traditional Christian theology wants nothing to do with any of this "Blab it and Grab it" hedonism.  To traditional Christians, this is nothing short of blatant greed and avarice.  Be that as it may...

When a "Full Gospel" Christian reads the scripture you quoted (Matthew 8:2-3) they don't focus on the question of the man (as you did); instead, they focus on  the answer of Jesus:

Jesus (to the Full Gospel crowd) is expressing His everlasting will for mankind. In other words, the word of God is the will of God. Every promise God has made in this document we call scripture is "Yes" to each of us... if you read the scriptures that way.

Personally, I have done this "Jesus thing" both ways - the traditional way and the Full Gospel way.  My personal opinion (which I can back up with scripture) is that the Full Gospel doctrine gives people many more opportunities to be either righteous or unrighteous in the eyes of God. 

If believing God's promises is what counts as righteousness (and it is) then I'm righteous if I believe God for healing and I am unrighteous if I do not believe God for healing.  Keep in mind that it's possible to be righteous in one area and unrighteous in another.  Lots of people are righteous in the area of forgiveness of sin but unrighteous in the area of healing.

On the coat-tails of "Full Gospel" is what's been called the "Finished Work Doctrine".  Jesus, in the 17th chapter of John, told the Father, "I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do" (John 17:4).  And on the cross, Jesus said, "It is finished" (Jn. 19:30). 

In Matthew 8, the gospel writer said that one of the jobs Jesus came here to do was to take on "our infirmity and bare our sicknesses" (Mt. 8:17).  Matthew makes it clear that this is not "spiritual infirmity" but physical.

Healing, therefore, is an established fact of life.  Just as Jesus forgave every sin ever committed or ever will be committed, He also healed every infirmity that anyone will ever have.

I wear glasses.  Does that mean that Jesus did not heal my vision 2000 years ago?  No.  I take Tums for acid reflux.  Does that mean Jesus did not heal me 2000 years ago?  No.  By His stripes ye were (past tense) healed (1 Pet. 2:24).  Whether that healing manifests in the natural is up to me.

Jesus died for the sins of the world but until the world receives His forgiveness, they remain in their sins.  Nothing happens in the kingdom of God apart from faith.  You have to believe that God has forgiven you in order to receive His forgiveness.  You cannot walk around thinking that maybe God might not forgive you.  That's not faith, that's unbelief.

By the same token, "A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.  Let not that man think he will receive anything from God" (James 1:8-7).  Our healing depends on our single-minded faith that Jesus has indeed finished the work the Father gave Him to do.  If we're wavering between "maybe God might heal me and maybe not" then we are like a reed blowing in the wind.  We are halt between two opinions.  Abraham was "FULLY PERSUADED" of what God had promised but it took 25-years for that promise to be manifest in the natural (Isaac).

If the doctor gives us 6-months to live but we have 25-year faith, we're not going to make it.  The time to believe God is YESTERDAY!!!  We don't have time for double-minded guessing games.

How we read the scriptures is as important as the scriptures themselves.  God has presented to us, life and death, blessings and cursings.  How we read His word determines whether our lives will be blessed or cursed.

Or so it seems to me,

Rob