|
| Simply divisive |
|
| |
That which saves us also unites us. That is, the simple gospel. Could it be much simpler?
10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Yet it seems inevitable that we will be divided into countless tiny camps over an endless list of side issues of the faith. Tongues, tithing, faith in miracles, law vs. grace, baptism, predestination, end time prophecy, women in ministry, spiritual gifts, race/ethnicity, worship styles, bible versions, eternal security, the Sabbath, secular politics, divorce and remarriage, child discipline, diet, psychology, support for Israel, inerrancy (of scripture), and at least a million more! I don’t find it odd that Christians disagree over these things. I just find it lamentable that Christians end relationships over them!
As far as I know, ultimately God will separate humankind into two categories, and only two. The sheep on the right, and the goats on the left. That is, believers and unbelievers. Either we are, or we aren’t (disciples). And if we are?
13:35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
Do we love the One to whom we belong enough to put aside differences and love one another?
Am I hopelessly naïve to think that it’s possible for believers to enjoy unity despite superficial differences? Most fathers don’t intentionally make things hopelessly complicated and difficult to understand for their children. Instead the goal is to simplify, in order to encourage success. I wonder if our Father in heaven might be the same way.
Who complicates? I think it might be we who do the complicating, not God. Although the idea itself may actually come from the “Father of Lies”, the “Accuser”, in the spiritual realm. I imagine he’d be quick to suggest to us that so-and-so isn’t as good a Christian because they do this or that, or don’t do this or that, or hold to certain beliefs about such and such, etc.
When the gospel is no longer simple, it becomes simply divisive, losing its attractiveness to those around us. What a pity!
|
|
| To add a comment to "Simply divisive" |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
 |
|
|
| It is unfortuanite that people seem to be losing interest in the bible, but then again I feel in my heart that it will be turned around eventually and when it does there will be a better future for us all. Interesting blog for sure Mike. |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Oh yeah, I got the first one how often does that happen? |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
Do we love the One to whom we belong enough to put aside differences and love one another?
I DO.!
|
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
Me too, Terry! THANKS! =)
Megan...many aren't interested in God's word, and yet they seem to find plenty of OTHER things to disagree and argue about. We have SUCH a HUGE advantage....the Holy Spirit really does empower us to live the Christian life, a life of unity, love, mutual respect, ..... |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| I agree, but there is a line. The Word even says so. If I know someone is preaching a Gospel that is sending ppl to HELL, then I don't have anything to do with them, anymore....except to pray that God would expose them and have mercy on them, as well......and then there's some ppl who just cram their stuff down your throat til you wanna gag, and they won't back off....and I just ignore them til they go away because I can't handle it. But as for Calvinist or not (actually, one of the ppl we are like on the same page totally except for he's a Calvinist, I am not), who cares? If someone advocates sin; or calls something NOT sin that IS sin, then again, bye bye. So Mike, yes, for "trivial" things, I agree. For things that send ppl to hell, I end the "friendship" as the Bible says to....if they won't hear you, that is. |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
Lara...
"For things that send ppl to hell..." I agree with you totally, in principle. Some even differ though on the criteria for whether people end up in heaven/hell. I believe that's simple (click the "simple gospel" link at the beginning of the blog). It's all the extra layers of doctrine that typically divides us. Look at the list I started in par. 2. None of that is heaven/hell criteria. And there's TONS more. Very sad. After all, Jesus said "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Layers of complexity is not easy/light!!! |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| I agree with you there Mike, it can be a troubling thing, but it will work out in the end. |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| I agree about the divisiveness of religion but we also have to remember what the Word says about adding or removing even one jot or tittle. We all can and should meet at the cross of Jesus it is after all where our sins were laid to rest. |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, AMEN DAVID!! |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| I'd give examples to make my point, but we won't go there. lol But I'm sure you can figure some of it out. you know me well enough by now, bro |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Well, maybe one, Lara. But in that particular case, the argument would be MOOT if we simply make a point of "making our hope sure" as scripture says repeatedly!!! ..right? :-) |
|
|
| January 25, 2009 |
|
|
|
| It takes a mature congregation to accommodate a wide variety of views. Most just try to make us all like yellow pencils. Imagine a quiet Brethren church accommodating vocal Pentecostals, or a Catholic Church including Protestants in communion, or a Baptist Church including real wine for visiting Anglicans or the Russian Orthodox Church repenting of its persecution of Evangelicals and helping them set up churches.Broad orthodoxy is better than narrow orthodoxy. In mixed congregations, it also behooves those of one ilk not to look down their noses at those of another persuasion. There are many human reasons for a feeling of self-importance. Your list above includes some of them. What we all forget, including myself, are reasons to be humble and accepting of those who are persuaded differently to ourselves. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Hi Mike. The gospel should be preached in balance. Jesus in my estimation preached a balanced message. Churches nowadays either preach one side or the other. Example. Its either all about Hell (putting the fear of God up people all the time) or all about Heaven - where people sit in their sun-loungers all day with not a fear in the world.
The fearcreeps in when people see something - but don't do it, and there are many examples in the bible where people saw something but didn't do it. Example: the Priest, the Levite and the good Samaritan. The two that should have helped - passed by. It took a complete stranger outside the camp to do something about it. Let me give a final example. When the day of judgement comes and He opens the Book of Life up, with evidence to back it up of all the people we should have helped but didn't - because they're all in Hell, will we be made accountable for it? And what's to say that we won't get the same treatment? That is what happens when its a one-sided gospel whereby we sit on our sun-loungers all day, because God is a God of love, not of judgement. For the record - He is both. When its a one-side message, we lose the fear that it won't happen to us. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
First coffee not even finished and you have me thinking large, Mike. You are GOOD! I don't have strong ego, I think not anyway, as I find it easy to prefer my brother/sister over myself in daily walking but the inner me does get wounded at times so must have a bit of reserve there to protect myself. I love to discuss these types of differences to see where I may be in err but even if I am, my assurance of heaven is not in question in MY mind. I have been shunned as real as an Amish shunning for such a discussion and that cannot be of God as me and the other are both believers. I know the Amish think themselves right to do so, and lovely as they are, I don't see God in that type of behaviour. Again, as you stated, we aren't talking those unsaved,but those saved. We are talking diversity in opinion about doctrine in the believers crowd. Totally agree and will be checking my heart regularly to see where I may need to straighten up. Hey Stevie, I like that sun-lounger analogy. I for one have TOO much to do and not getting comfortable till I feel the Lord's tears on my face for this world. I have recently known rough and ornery men at the campground reading a bible and talking about the Lord because I felt the Lord tell me to tell them..despite standing at a firepit as the only female. I had to steer the conversation back gently to my witness and leave time and time again and NOW I have their respect and NOW they are talking about God. I have friends who tell me I had no business doing that. What?, really? I believe I had a commandment to do so. I didn't once put myself in harm's way...to my knowledge...nor did I participate in the nonsense, but kept praying and sharing and giving coffee and company and cooked breakfast and smiled and cared. I could have holed up in my camper and read a great Nancy Moser book and let them slide on into hell. Instead, I have made friends who aren't yet saved but seeds planted. Oh, that is another subject, the sun-lounger word got me going....or is it? Male/Female....was it right to preach? Does that offend someone? Am I too female to have a heart for men and am I allowed to share the gospel? I think I am and others think I need to quietly crochet hats for missions. Diversity there is the kind of thing that would send splits. I will keep loving those who don't like my style and keep doing what I am doing until I hear from God otherwise...but...thinking...that ....fruit....is the evidence. Oh, Mike, I have to chew on these thoughts after more coffee and my three hour trip to work in Richmond. I may not even listen to music this round. lol Me and the Lord are going to talk this one over. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
When the first Church started they did not have any of these issues.Peter gave one message and 3000 souls were added to the body of Christ. Whenever man adds to God's word you have confusion. Paul debated in the temple about the Gospel, The Plan of Salvation Etc. We seem afraid to debate the issues because we have already determined that we are right and they are wrong. How will we ever have the unity of the faith if we can't debate or discuss the issues of true and false doctrine? I will end this with scripture. 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Great comments, deep thoughts guys, wow! I look forward to responding, but we're hitting the road for Norfolk VA this morning and there's no time. Will be responding this evening from my hotel (business trip). God bless! |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Father, please allow your Word to go forth and accomlish what it was meant to do.
With loving thoughts
Sister Marcia |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Lord give them traveling grace, In Jesus Name |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
The way you covered this is very eloquent Mike.Articulate,concise and without prejudice.You are good.Keep up the good work...with men like you,the "good news"will continue in love.I regret many relationships being destroyed because of divisions... |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Amen Mike, WHAT A PITY!!!!!!
We complicate the most simple message of all times - LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU.....
We as Humans make things so complicated. We insist on being right about everything and we impose our interpretations and beliefs on others (right or wrong). We make it hard a lot of times for non-believers to see the truth of the word when we put forth all these restrictions and constraints upon them that has absolutely nothing to do with the Word.... We are arrogant, insistent, puritanical and a lot of times obnoxious when all our Father asked us to do was LOVE ONE ANOTHER.. What is so hard about that simple four letter word? It is hard because of our arrogance, of our closed hearts and mind....
Father, Open my ears,eyes and heart to your Word that I may see the simplicity of all of the knowledge you have given in the Guidebook of Life (LOVE). Help me to understand how, when and where to apply your Word without throwing in my interpretation of what it should be. Help me to see JUST HOW SIMPLE IT IS and to show my sisters and brothers how to apply that simplicity in their lives and others.... |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Mike, notice how in "agreement" you still have almost divisiveness in the different answers to your blog. I guess one big flaw of our human condition is not to have total agreement no matter the subject. Even sinners do not agree in what a sin is. MC is a good example of divergent points of view from people that feel in communion with God. Some preach to the choir trying to saves those who already think are in the right path to salvation, others use censorship when divergence is not to their liking, others like to always be in agreement, others like to look beyond the agreement and question things offering counter arguments, etc. And yet, we all here looking for the same main goal: Salvation. Someone once told me that salvation is an individual act. At first, I could not understand it, but then I realized that like Jesus with the lost sheep, He saves us one by one. No church, no collective group or sect can save you (it can point you to the Way though). Your salvation is independent from others yet interdependent in your relations with others. So, in the final analysis it comes to the basic commandments: Love God with all your mind and strength and love your neighbor with similar passion. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Just keep it simple, love one another. Amen! |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| KISS...Keep it simple Silly Seriously, though That is the Lord's prayer in John 17 that we might be one even as He and the Father are one. You have the heart of the Father and you will be called names, and ecumenical, and a stand for nothing, but when you break it down...It is Jesus and what we do with Him and what we believe about Him. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
We are all one in the Spirit. We are to love one another as the Lord has commanded that we do. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
CS Lewis put it eloquently (emphasis added)- "Each of us has his individual emphasis: each holds, in addition to the Faith, many opinions which seem to him to be consistent with it and true and important." and later, "But we are defending Christianity; not "my religion." When we mention our personal opinions we must always make quite clear the difference between them and the Faith itself." I'm working on a sermon on testing the spirits, and realizing more and more in an age of schisms and splits just how important it is to recognize the essentials of the doctrine while honoring different non-essentials. Jesus' desire is clear both in his prayer in John 17, and elsewhere: John 13:35
35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Recognizing our doctrine in contrast to our dogma is the trick. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Excellent post, Mike! Indeed, our only division will one day be believers and non-believers, and even that will not be for me to decide, apart from my own salvation. Until that day, may I do all I can to invite others to Jesus, but may I love and respect them no matter their choice. God has called us to love one another, and to leave judgment to Him. What a disappointment it must be to Him when His own children refuse to play together! |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
LOL Kathy! I love that!
GOOD CONVO EVERYONE!
wtg Mike |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Mike Webb: "By THIS all men will know that you are my disciples, if you LOVE one another."
That verse really struck me while writing this blog. The criteria for folks OUTSIDE of the faith (and maybe even some in the faith) knowing whether people are truly disciples of the Lord Jesus is NOT discernent of the true doctrines, but whether or not they LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Man, that's deep. I think I forgot how deep that is as I wrote the blog. Thanks for the reminder!!!
|
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Brother Todd, your comment really touched me. I love you brother! |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
LOL, thanks Kathy! ("refuse to play together..." lol)
Caleb, thanks for weighing in bro. The divisiveness you see here is more like different perspectives on the same truth, I think. You'll know diviseness when you see it! And, I like your point vis-à-vis independence / interdependence....very interesting. |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Mary, I've done this myself a few times, perhaps quite a few times... I'm a slow learner, often learning things through my mistakes. But I am getting to a place where I don't have to hit every argument head on, even when I'm sure I'm right! lol ..Granted, I still occasionally challenge what I perceive as error. But before I do, I now ask myself, what will it accomplish. If nothing, I'm glad to sidestep in the name of (gulp) unity. :-) |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Stevie, good thoughts on "balance". What an important issue!! Very relevant to this discussion bro, thanks for pointing that out.
Grant...MATURITY...it's key. What a difference between the way a mature minister handles diversity and an immature one!! Other related issues: forgiveness, forbearance, patience, gentleness, etc. What's it come down to? Maturity! (Oh thank the Lord I'm finally maturing!) |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
"the doctrine of Christ" ... thanks Marcia (ihsallthetime), I think you've cut through to the central issue, the core doctrine, the simple gospel. That is, CHRIST!
Pastor Elam, thanks for pointing that out! Peter preached ONE SERMON, and thousands instantly became brothers for all time! How complicated was that sermon? How many different doctrines did Peter have time to incorporate in that one sermon? It was so simple! Amen brother, thanks! |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Juanita, you showed kindness, and shared a simple word. Right? What love.... |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Having kids is simple...raising them isn't. If it were then God's presence and anointing would be superfluous. Take a stroll through 1 Corinthians 10 times...listening to each word from beginning to end and you'll see how "love one another as I have loved you" works itself out in the midst of a complicated and diverse environment where all kinds of "simple" gospels are being preached. :-)
It's simple if we do nothing on our own initiative and stay focused on Christ our life and judge every rhema by the logos...otherwise it's like taking a ride in a row boat in the midst of "The Perfect Storm." Of course if you have your own private lake [denomination or non-denomination...hummm...demon-i-nation] where you control absolutely everything then it's not so much a problem but when the children go out into the real ocean they'll have a real problem. :-)
Best regards,
Craig |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Interesting thougts Craig...as always, brother. I believe I'll give 1 Cor 10 a read tonight before bed. God bless, and thx for sharing! |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
One other thought. God is love. That means that we have to get to know him, personally, before we will ever understand the waysof love. I'll say that most of us define God in terms of our concept of love rather than vice versa. That's why the fear of the Lord is lacking in the assemblies. The grace we have isn't always a grace that teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires.
The concept really is simple. We do nothing that we don't see him doing and what he does he does through us. He, not me, is Lord. He, not the senior pastor, is Lord. He, not the denomination, is Lord. Simple. So...become as little children and it will stay that way. :-D
Craig |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Ah, Mike. 1 Corinthians, 10 times. :-) Not 1 Corinthians 10...that's too simple! LOL!
Craig |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| LOLOL |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Great simple blog man!! ;) |
|
|
| January 26, 2009 |
|
|
|
Mike, you said a couple of things with which I wholeheartedly concur; You don't find it odd Christians disagree, and, it is we who complicate. I believe our best cue on responding to differences and errors are both modeled by Jesus and Paul.
There were deep doctrinal issues between Jesus and the Saduccees, scribes and the Pharisees. Although he would engage with them at various times His ministry was neither consumed nor defined by those matters. He kept a clear focus. Although he blasted them for their elevation of tradition over scripture he called them on their misplaced focus on tradition, not that the practice or observance of tradition was wrong, but that it usurped the Word of God. He was unequivocable in telling the Phariseees "you are mistaken" concerning the resurrection.
Paul delivered numerous short expositions on various doctrinal issues including circumcision, the law, but like Jesus his ministry was not consumed or defined by those issues. One of his clearest and simplest admonitions on division was delivered to our brethren in Corinth (I Cor 1:4-19). The pettiness of them to glory on being followers of Apollos or Cephas was no less than those, he states, who claim, "I follow Christ". Is that to say we ought never claim, "I follow Christ"? No. Rather, it is that when that claim is directed at another with the explicit intention of exulting yourself as a "better", "truer" (more spiritual?) follower of Christ that it becomes as out of focus and divisive as anything else.
There's no need to wonder. Doctrinal error is to be refuted and those who teach it are to be confronted, but that does not give one license to engage in a spirit of partisanship. |
|
|
| January 27, 2009 |
|
|
|
Hi Cher, thanks for droppin in!
Gil, thank you for your analysis, AND excellent examples to back up your assertions! We may validly agree w/the teachings of Apollos or Cephas, but at the end of the day we are brothers b/c we trust the teachings of Jesus. |
|
|
| January 28, 2009 |
|
|
|
| mike,how sad that as believers in christ we can not go on to perfection and lay down doctrines and just give the love of jesus to each other and the world. may we always remember that christ gave his life for the world. keep up the good news that you are spreading. |
|
|
| January 28, 2009 |
|
|
|
| Thank you Patty, what a nice, thoughtful comment. I'm glad you were encouraged! |
|
|
| January 28, 2009 |
|
|
|
| To use an overused phrase, WWJD? Jesus would love and does love all...He will not stand for those who try to tunr people from Him, but He will give more than one chance for people's hearts to change. I try to get along with everyone regardless of beliefs, but some people are just hard to be around. Even those people though, deserve my prayers and that is one that that I can do for all, no matter what they believe. And if someone's heart changes, then I can welcome them into my life with open arms. |
|
|
Follow this blog
