thanks for the stars Marilyn and Marcella.

and I agree, Amen Marilyn.

The author in Hebrews 8, is speaking about the old contract with Israel, in the new contract, He will write His LAWS in our hearts and in our minds.

If you read the whole chapter here, notice it is all in future tense.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:(this is from Jer. 31:31-40) speaking about New Jerusalem.

 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (again, this is speaking of the New Jerusalem, for we are a LONG way from this point)

The old contract is almost ready to expire:  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.   future tense...notice the author did-not write, is vanished away.

 as to the covenant nailed to the cross, where does it say this?

it says in Col. 2:14 ordinances of commandments and doctrines of man, this is not the Law.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

This is speaking about the many rules and doctrines that the priest kept piling onto the people, the ordinances is not the covenant.

We are justified by our faith in what Christ did,  by asking for forgiveness for breaking His laws, and turning from sin.

What was nailed to the cross, was our sins,

Our sins that Christ forgave us of, was breaking His law.

So if there is no law, because it is dead, then there is nothing to forgive us of, and Christ died for nothing!

THIS is my hope.  Thanks be to God!

just remember that LOVE always casts out fear.

You are never alone, because the Comforter dwells within you.

That means that the same Lord that we read about in the Bible, chose to live inside YOU!

Gary,

I think I missed something.  Did someone delete his comment to you?  What's up with the Hebrews 8 reference above?

The reason I ask is, I'd love to debate that entire position with you at length.  The Hebrews writer wasn't quoting Jeremiah to carry his prophecy into a new age, he was talking about the current covenant.  His laws are in our hearts and minds right now.  There's no need to wait for some better covenant to come.

Also....

"Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away" is said from the perspective of the referenced quote.  To wit: "In that he saith a new covanent he maketh the first old."  Anything that decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.  It had not yet vanished away from the point of view of the prophet.

Rob

but if you read on, the author says that everyone will know the Lord, that we will not have to teach our neighbors.

Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

so in this, the scripture here is not fulfilled yet.

The LAW dwelt with sin, the cerimonial dwelt with sacrifice, or payment required for the breaking of the LAW.

While the word ceremonial is spoken frequently of in scripture the term Ceremonial Law is not. In the KJV Bible, it is normally translated to ordinances which Strong’s dictionary translates to as being a law of ordinances or ceremonial law.

As it was a system of commandments given by God to Israel, there can be no doubt that it was a law which involved ceremonies so it will be frequently called the Ceremonial Law. Since this law ended at the cross it was only observed by the children of Israel.

The key to understanding Colossians 2:16 is found two verses earlier in Colossians 2:14.

The keywords are, “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances.” The Greek word for blotting is “exaleipho”, pronounced “ex-al-i'-fo”. Strong's dictionary gives the definition; “to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.”

The next keyword in this verse is “handwriting” and the Greek word is “cheirographon”, pronounced “khi-rog'-raf-on” and the definition is, “something handwritten (”chirograph”), that is, a manuscript (specifically a legal document or bond (figuratively)): - handwriting.”

And the last and final very important word we need to look at is “ordinances”, Greek word is “dogma”, pronounced “dog'-mah” and the Strong's definition is “a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.”

So the verse you mentioned earlier in Hebrews, if read along with the other verses of this chapter, deals with the priesthood of Levi, and how Christ came out of Juda. The cerimonial law was changed, else Christ could not have been our High Priest.

So what was nailed to the cross as Paul explains in verse 14? The “Law of Moses,” which is also called the “Mosaic Law”, the “Book of the Law” and as we have just seen by the definition given by the KJV Bible, the “Ordinances.”

There should be no doubt that the ceremonial law is not the Moral law and that Paul has said that we no longer need to observe the feasts days that were associated with the ordinances as some teach in ignorance.

This was the whole problem that Paul was addressing as some Jews were still doing this.

The ceremonial law was for Israel alone as the Gospel did not go to the Gentiles for 3.5 years after Jesus died on the cross.

This is why there is so much confusion between the ceremonial law and the Ten Commandments. That one and final perfect sacrifice of Jesus ended this whole sacrificial system, thankfully giving us no requirement to obey this law.

Since Jesus replaced this law, He has become the remedy for sin, which is the breaking of God's Ten Commandment law.

Colossians 2:16  “Let no man therefore judge you in meat (offering), or in drink (offering), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:” and so the belief of some is the fourth Commandment (Sabbath) was deleted from stone. What was actually done away with here was the ordinances (Ceremonial Law).

see also :

then if you re-read Hebrews Chapter 9, you will see the author is talking about the outer and inner sanctuary.

The outer sanctuary was the ceremonial sacrifices, touch not, taste not, while the inner sanctuary is a representation of the sanctuary not built by hands.

 anyways, have an open heart, see where the Lord leads you on this.

copied from my other blog: http://www.mychurch.org/blog/156737/what-is-the-sabbath

and here;

here is the kicker though!!

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days.  I will put my laws into their mind and write them on their hearts. And I will be to them a God and they shall be to me a people.  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."

Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth.  If the Holy Spirit is God then this is the fulfilment of Jeremiah's prophecy.

The bible doesn't say, "everyone shall know me", it says "all shall know me".  The question then is, "All who?"  The expression "all shall know me" does not include the heathen.  If one is not born again, they definitely do not know Him.  But all of God's people know Him and all are taught by the Holy Spirit.  This is one of the reasons the apostle Paul said, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His" (Rom. 8:9).

If you are a Jew and you have not the Holy Spirit, this prophecy does not include you.  If you are a gentile and you have not the Holy Spirit, this prophecy does not include you.  "I shall be to them  a God and they  shall be to me a people".  Jeremiah was definitely talking about the "people of God" specifically and not "everyone" in general.

Rob

The scripture in Jer. says..

Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

and then a little further..

Jer 31:38  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
Jer 31:39  And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
Jer 31:40  And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever. 

this is speaking about the New Jerusalem.. keeping time in perspective..

Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Heb 9:11  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Rev 21:10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:17  And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
 Jer 31:39  And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
 Heb 9:11  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Rev 21:24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Isa 60:21  Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

So my point is that  these have not happened yet,

so here we come back to Hebrews 8, I guess my question for you, keeping the verse in context...

Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 

 why does the word say ready to vanish away, and not has vanished away. Remembering that this is written after Christ has ascended to Heaven. Also notice how the author says in ver. 11. (we are a long way from this)!!!!

Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

(I see this as when all the inhabitants of the earth will worship Him, after the return of the Lord, and setting the New Jerusalem upon the earth forever more.

Christ is the passover lamb. More than prophet.

As to having to follow the law of Moses, He fulfilled the ceremonial law, but that is where we differ. You don't see the distinction, between the 2 laws. 

But Christ is still king!  Do I look down upon you for this? Of course not, to me the Lord has not opened your eyes to this.

To you the Lord has not opened my eyes to your view, that the full law (both parts) were fulfilled.

So on this I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Does this make one or the other a better Christian? No.

So in Christ. Good day!

If you read the whole third chapter of 2 Corinthians, you'll be like I was and say, "OMG.  How did I miss THIS one?!?!?"

I said in an earlier comment that neither of us intends to deceive.  Give an honest look at the theology of the apostle Paul in 2 Cor. 3 before you reply.

Rob

Ok, I have read the Chapter, and the one before and after.

And He does call us into liberty eleutheria
el-yoo-ther-ee'-ah freedom (legitimate or licentious, chiefly moral or ceremonial): - liberty.

And to answer your question, the Law was written on tablets of stone.

But read on to what Paul also wrote about liberty:

 Gal 5:13  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Gal 5:14  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. 

So yes we are under liberty, but not quite as you put it, for we are to live and walk in the spirit, not in the flesh.

We are free, but not free to walk in the flesh, our freedom is to walk in the Spirit.

Here is the flesh: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,

I like this translation:  Fornication, impurity, indecency, idol-worship, sorcery; enmity, strife, jealousy, outbursts of passion, intrigues, dissensions, factions, envyings; hard drinking, riotous feasting, and the like 

These we are NOT to walk in, looks pretty familiar to me....

Now here is what Paul said we ARE to walk in: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance:

 He puts it pretty plainly here

Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 

 So if we are we free as you wrote: "Paul must have had more debates over this than a few.  He finally concluded, "Do whatever blows your hair back". 

Then why does Paul write Gal. 5:24... 

In the eyes of the Law, we are dead, for we died with Christ, but we still have to crucify our flesh (our own desires), and now walk in the Spirit, and live as He would have us live.... thus the fruit.... or works....

Not saved BY our fruits (works), but the fruits (works) are the evidence that we are walking in the spirit, and not the flesh!

 If we walk in the flesh, Paul writes:

that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 

here are the definitions: 

Adultery, moy-khi'-ah; adultery: - adultery. / You shall not commit adultery

fornication, por-ni'-ah harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication. / You shall not commit adultery /

uncleanness, ak-ath-ar-see'-ah impurity (the quality), physically or morally: - uncleanness.

lasciviousness,aselgeia as-elg'-i-a licentiousness (sometimes including other vices): - filthy, lasciviousness, wantonness.

Idolatry,eidōlolatreia i-do-lol-at-ri'-ah  image worship (literally or figuratively): - idolatry. / You shall have no other gods before me / You shall not make for yourself an idol

witchcraft, pharmakeia far-mak-i'-ah medication (“pharmacy”), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery, witchcraft.

hatred, echthra ekh'-thrah hostility; by implication a reason for opposition: - enmity, hatred. / You shall not murder*

variance,eris er'-is    a quarrel, that is, (by implication) wrangling: - contention, debate, strife, variance.

emulations, zēlos dzay'-los properly heat, that is, (figuratively) “zeal” (in a favorable sense, ardor; in an unfavorable one, jealousy, as of a husband [figuratively of God], or an enemy, malice): - emulation, envy (-ing), fervent mind, indignation, jealousy, zeal.

wrath, thumos thoo-mos' passion (as if breathing hard): - fierceness, indignation, wrath. / Honor your father and mother / You shall not murder*

strife, eritheia er-ith-i'-ah Perhaps from the same as erethizō; properly intrigue, that is, (by implication) faction: - contention (-ious), strife.
erethizō er-eth-id'-zo to stimulate (especially to anger): - provoke. / Honor your father and mother / You shall not murder*

seditions,  dichostasia   dee-khos-tas-ee'-ah From a derivative of  stasis; disunion, that is, (figuratively) dissension: - division, sedition.     stasis stas'-is a standing (properly the act), that is, (by analogy) position (existence); by implication a popular uprising; figuratively controversy: - dissension, insurrection, X standing, uproar. /

heresies, hairesis hah'ee-res-is properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (“heresy” is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greekord itself], sect.

Envyings, phthonos fthon'-os ill will (as detraction), that is, jealousy (spite): - envy. / You shall not covet your neighbor's wife You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

murders, phonos fon'-os (to slay); murder: - murder, + be slain with, slaughter. / You shall not murder*

drunkenness,  methē  meth'-ay  an intoxicant, that is, (by implication) intoxication: - drunkenness.

revellings, kōmos ko'-mos  a carousal (as if a letting loose): - revelling, rioting.

used with permission by Craig; (eathenvessel)

Joh 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 

2Jn 1:6  And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8  Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

 1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 3:18  My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1Jn 3:19  And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1Jn 3:20  For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1Jn 3:21  Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1Jn 3:22  And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 

1Jn 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 These are just a few, and I stayed in the New Testament too.

Keeping the Law and obeying the commandments of Christ are not the same thing.

I'm drawing a thick black line between Old Covenant and New.  Admit it, Gary, you do not draw such a line.  When you say, "Keep His commandments", you're talking about the top Ten list.  I know you are.  Your blog title implies it.  Another of your blogs "What is the Sabbath" comes out and says it.

You say all the right words.  You are the first to admit you are righteous apart from Law - that Jesus is your righteousness but then you try to justify rebuilding everything you just tore down.  I am righteous apart from the Law.  I stay righteous by doing righteousness - not necessarily behaving myself.

Since we are not under law, sin cannot be imputed to me.  I can choose to get back under law (because I might think God wants me to) and then, at that point, I can be in violation.  But if it's not Law to me then I cannot possibly violate it.

When I say, "keep His commandments", I'm talking about speaking to your mountains.  I'm talking about rebuking the wind and the waves, laying hands on the sick, resisting the devil by rebuking him.  If in so doing, I successfully avoid killing someone, committing adultry, or telling a lie then so much the better.  Once you get hold of the power that God has made available, you'd BETTER walk in love.  Otherwise, there will be destruction in your wake.

When I talk about "pleasing Him and doing things that are pleasing in His sight", I'm not making the mistake in thinking that observing Law has anything to do with that.  Without faith it is impossible to please Him and the Law is not of faith. 

Most Christians are disciples of Moses.  To them Jesus is just an also-ran who repeated what Moses said.  I used to be such a Christian.  I knew, intellectually, that keeping the LOM was non-Christian but in practice, I was very much "under law". Today, I'm convinced of a better reality.

Most Christians are convinced that all Jesus did was take away the necessity of animal sacrifice and that's all.  To most Christians the LOM is still in force.  Most Christians are still "keeping holy the Sabbath Day" as a matter of Law.  If they had any idea what they were talking about Sunday would have nothing to do with it.

Rob

How do you infer doing miracles as keeping His (Christ') commandments, there will be MANY miracle workers burning where the worm does not die. Even Satan can do miracles, so too his disciples. There are so many workers of witch craft that can do miracles, and sooth-sayers. Doing miracles has nothing to do with keeping His commandments. Nor do they have any thing to do with obedience.

Do you even read what I write, or do you jump right in with your doctrine, 

top 10 list? These are the 10 written on stone, now written in our hearts.

I don't say that I am justified by keeping the 10, but rather it is His desire in me,    when I lie... my conscious is pricked, I don't want my conscious to be seared, no longer caring about the Lord.

My aim is to please the Lord, not being a god, strutting about with my power.

If in so doing, I successfully avoid killing someone, committing adultry, or telling a lie then so much the better.  Once you get hold of the power that God has made available, you'd BETTER walk in love.  Otherwise, there will be destruction in your wake.

If He chooses to use me, then I am His vessel, for that is ALL that I am, a vessel for His use, whether for glory or for shame. If He wants me to be a vase, or to be a urinal.. I am in His hands, and want to be mold-able, otherwise He will fall upon me, I would rather fall upon Him, to be broken so He can build me back up, instead of demolished and thrown out with the trash, like old useless salt! 

OK, Rob... if the Lord does not care if we keep His 10, then when you say you are free from the law (10), and you are then free to lie, because you can not violate it.

 Since we are not under law, sin cannot be imputed to me.  I can choose to get back under law (because I might think God wants me to) and then, at that point, I can be in violation.  But if it's not Law to me then I cannot possibly violate it.
 

So why did the Lord kill  Ananias, with Sapphira for lying?

Act 5:1  But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2  And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5  And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:6  And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Act 5:7  And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8  And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9  Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10  Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.