Do we love the prostitute on the corner with AIDS and hepatitis, the same way we love the choir member, or our brother or sister?

Can we truly welcome the homeless man with dirt and alcohol on his shirt to our dinner table, the same way we do the pastor, or our friends?

Do we hug to homo-sexual like we do members of the church on Sunday morning?

Do we pray for and love our politicians the way we do our friends?

Are the sins of the homo-sexual any different than our own?

  ihsallthetime

I thought the same way myself about repenting, but now I know that the definition you gave does not fit, nor match the Greek translation.

First off, if we are told to turn from and don't do again, if this were the case, no one would be repentant, because we all keep DOING the same thing, we don't want to, but we do.

I have repented for dipping snuff, but am still under it's influence, I repent for looking on a woman with less than pure thoughts, but occasionally I slip. I repent from telling the occasional white lie, but catch myself doing it again....

Does this mean I am un-repentant and bound for hell?????

The word repent literally mean: to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

I do not see the words you gave as a definition....

Debbie

 Thanks for commenting... and the star!

This is so true, when we think we are better than the common sinner, we become no better than the Pharisee’s, our sins that are either open and visible to all to see, or hidden away deep within our hearts, where only the Lord knows, are no worse than those without Christ.

Is my white lie any worse than those of the un-saved?

ihsallthetime

Is this not the same things the Pharisee’s did, cry "unclean - unclean", they would not sit with and eat with the sinner.

How else are we do get the Good News to the bar tender, or the prostitute?

Do we go in and drink with the bar tender? 

Do we have sex with the prostitute?

No, we bring the love of Christ to them, or else they will never hear the good news.

As to coming out from among them, Paul wrote differently:

1Co 5:9  I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10  Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

Sin will always be in us, we are flesh. But when we continue in the sin, it drives a wedge between us and the Lord. Not that the Lord pulls away from us, but rather we pull away from HIM, because when we continue in sin, with out repentance (changing our thoughts), then guilt and condemnation attacks us. 

We must come to the understanding that the only difference between my sin, and the sins of the prostitute is, we KNOW ours are forgiven, whereas they don't know it is forgiven.

Will I always sin? YEP. But gradually the sin will have less and less power over me, and I will do it less and less often. But I will always be held by its grip, only because I am still in the flesh.

Paul wrote:

That which I desire to do, I do not, That whick I desire not to do.. I do.

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 

ihsallthetime

So you say you are without sin?

You no longer tell ANY white lies.

You NEVER have any lust?

You NEVER get angry while driving, because someone cut you off on the road?

You NEVER spend more time watching the TV, then with the Lord, there is nothing you EVER place before Him?

Because IF you do, then you will NEVER make it to heaven, according to the way you used the scriptures you posted.

And if you ARE without sin, then can you honestly say that you have sold all that you have, given it to the poor, so that you can serve and minister to the sinners?

ihsallthetime

But where does He say:  "turn away do not do it again"

He tells the people that He healed, to go and sin no more.

The prostitute quit being a prostitute, but did she continue to sin?

How can anyone quit sinning... totally?

We are human, we will ALWAYS slip, do we desire to NOT sin, yes... that is the difference between the un-saved and the saved... the desire to quit.

Remember it is ALL in spirit.

The homo-sexual, once he comes to Christ, will desire to quit being in sin, but is he sinless? The drug-addict, will desire to quit, and the Lord will help him. The drunkard will desire to quit drinking, and He will help him get off the booze. The child molester will desire to quit abusing children, and He will remove the power those thoughts have over him.

But here is the question, are we any better? Do we not desire to quit sinning once we come to Christ. But we as Christians do not LOVE the child molester, the drunkard, the prostitute, we cry "un-clean".

Gerald

Thanks, and yes, you are right, before a person can take responsibility over a flock, as Paul wrote to Timothy, he must be beyond reproach. Be blameless.

But here is where I think we have lost the LOVE.

When a man takes the responsibility of teaching, he gets so high minded, and so in turn do the flock. If a dirty beggar comes into the church seeking help, often he is shunned, but worse off, the flock will not go to the streets to teach LOVE, because there is no LOVE in them. 

Can we honestly say that we LOVE as Christ loved? Do we go to the homo-sexual and truly love them, or do we go to bash them over their heads with their own condemnation. The Lord has already placed into everyone a conscience, the homo-sexual, already knows something is wrong, the prostitute knows they have no true joy. There is a reason the drug addict keeps going back to the needle. Do we give them LOVE, or just drive the people away further into their sins, by telling them what they already know.

Why not rather tell them the Good News, Christ has already forgiven them, He died to free them from their captivity. Show them love, not bash them over the head with scriptures about how much of a sinner they are.

 ihsallthetime, you wrote

We are told in the last book of the bible (Revelations),  that only those who overcome all things will enter into the place Jesus Christ prepared for them.  All others will be kept out.

Are you without sin, or just desiring to be without sin?

I understand what you are saying, but I pose the same question.... are YOU totaly without sin, or are you just telling me that I must be without sin.

Is it not the desire to not sin, with the power of the Holy Ghost, that makes us different than the un-saved?

 Gerald

True, the Holy Spirit will place the desire to seek the Lord, but when that happens, where were we? In our pews, not amongst them, showing the Love of Christ.

We are not called to "clean them up", but just to share the Good News, their sins have been paid for, ALL of their sins. How else can they know the Love of Christ, except we get among them.

Will they come to Christ on their own, or are we not called to go to the harvest.

Does the grain come to the silo, or do the farmers go out and get it?

Too often, the pulpit is used for gain. How many people sit in their pews, week after week, doing nothing, but sitting, listening to the "good" sermons, that do not teach us how to go out and harvest?

Are God's people being taught how to harvest in love? Or are they just getting  lessons on how to swing the bible like a bat?

 We learn from example, if the pulpit is used to pay for the building, then what use is the building? What use is the man behind the pulpit? 

Where are our hearts, are they in our wallets, or are they in the streets?

The harvest is ready, but there is no one to harvest, just people with bats.. beating the wheat.

When we tell the lost about Christ, do we do it in true LOVE, or just make a banging sound, like kids in the kitchen beating on pots and pans?

What are we telling the lost, what is the "Good News" we tell them? Do we tell them they are going to hell? Or are we showing them a way out?

We are already a laughing stock to the world, they see us as sounding gongs, because we quit LOVING, we sit in our pews, singing our songs, week by week, but when we meet them in the streets, we have a look of disgust, how dare they ask us for help, they are so dirty, they are such sinners. 

We see the homo-sexual holding hands, and what is the first thing that enters our minds? 

We see the prostitutes on the corner, and what is in our hearts?

We see the drug addicts, strung out on meth, and what is our reaction?

These are the questions I am trying to convey, honestly within our own hearts.

ihsallthetime

 I know where you are coming from, I know what you are saying.

Here is a question though...

What does Paul mean in Romans:

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

I think he is saying that it is the Holy Spirit's power that gives us the desire to live as He would have us live, but that the flesh will always be flesh. No man will ever be sinless. If we try and fail, then no man will ever make it to the Lord.

It is a narrow road, one that the Holy Spirit gives us the power to walk, but He gives us the power to live His ways, it is in the spiritual plane we must walk, when we try to walk in the flesh as sinless, we will ALWAYS fail.

To say you are sinless, is in itself a lie, thus you have already condemned yourself to hell. Because if you slip and break even the least commandment, you have sinned.

Even just a little white lie, or an angry honk because someone cut you off on the road. 

ihsallthetime

 Yes, we dust our feet and move on to the next person, but we have to be out there.

We must be examples of His love. When we sit and tell ourselves that we are sinless, and thus expect everyone else to be sinless, but slip in anger, or lust, or idolatry, what kind of witness is this.... one of hypocrisy, no better than the Pharisee’s.

But if we admit to ourselves that we are flesh, and subject to the law of sin.. in the flesh, but in the spirit subject to the Lord, we are truly able to love the un-saved. 

We are able to hug the homo-sexual, to sit beside the man with alcohol and vomit all over himself.. without making faces of disgust.

Christ went to the broken, He went and ate with the tax collector, the prostitutes were his friends.... that sat and listened to Him, because He was able to truly love them for who they were..... fallible humans.

ihsallthetime

I don't mean to offend, only to speak truth. 

No one but the Lord is ever going to be sinless.

As to a thorn in the flesh, that is a different part of the scripture than the one I quoted.

Paul is only saying that when we have the Holy Spirit, He gives us the desire to please the Lord in the spirit, to quit trying to be in the flesh, because it will always be flesh, until we are present with the Lord.

I ask you this though, when Christ died on the cross, which sins did He die for? Which sins did He forgive?

As to being filled with the Holy Spirit, most definitely!!!

But the part you quoted above: Be ye separate and touch not the unclean thing says the Lord, or you will be exposed!

2Co 6:17  Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you,

How do you plan on reaching the lost, unless you get into the trenches with them, to lead them out? I am not saying He says we live as they do, but we are set free, no longer under condemnation, we no longer desire to please the flesh, as the un-saved, we no longer want to do drugs, look on women with less than honorable intentions, lie, cheat, ect. But He has called us to be different, to love them, to forgive them, just as He has already forgiven them.

Paul tells us that the grace of the Lord is not a license to sin, and I agree. You keep twisting my words, I never said "I want to keep sinning". but that because I am flesh, there is no way to never sin again. That is His grace, knowing that we are stuck in these bodies, made of flesh. The flesh wars with the spirit, and the will to do what is right, the Lord puts within me.

He sees our hearts, He knows when we WANT to sin, and when we try to live as He intended.

I don't WANT to sin, but because I am flesh, I will make mistakes, whether it be a white lie, speed on the highway, honk at a driver, happen to think something un-pure. If I spend more time watching TV, more time working, more time even with my family than I do with the Lord, I sin. I desire to spend more time with Him, and the Holy Spirit will give me the power to do so, but when I slip, I fail, and according to what you wrote above, I am not saved. and the Lord is not within me.

That is His grace, He has already forgiven my sins. I am able to come to Him boldly, because I know He has washed away ALL my sins.

As to repent, I only give what the definition is, not what theology teaches.

You say you are sinless, great, you are on the road to the Lord, then I say as Christ said to the man in Matt. One thing thou lackest: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow Him.

 ihsallthetime

As commented on your blog.

We are told to forgive all transgressions against us, just as the Lord has forgiven us.

If we cannot forgive, but hold a grudge, neither will He forgive us. Matt 6:12

He has forgiven all sins, not just mine, and not just the ones I ask forgiveness for, else if I forget to ask forgiveness for one that I forgot about, I would be condemned to hell.

His grace is that ALL has been forgiven, The only way to heaven is through Christ, and the only ones going to hell are those that DO NOT have their names in the book of life.  Rev. 17:8

If we continue in our sins, without repentance (a changed heart, mind) then we pull away from the Lord, eventually removing our names from the Book of Life through un-belief.

Gary, what do you think of when Jesus told His disciples that if they didn't forgive others, then the Father wouldn't forgive them of their tresspasses either?  So if they aren't forgiven, what does that mean for them?  If I choose to withold forgiveness from my husband for something, am I still getting to heaven even though I'm not forgiven by God?  Food for thought.

God's grace is what "cleans us up".  Not ourselves.  :-)  Blessings, bro.

 Lara Leger 

You said: If I choose to withhold forgiveness from my husband for something, am I still getting to heaven even though I'm not forgiven by God? 

As to forgiving others, if I do not forgive, neither will the Lord forgive me, no matter how sinless my life is, it is all HEART, the Lord sees the intentions of our hearts

First off, whether you forgive your husband or not, if you don't believe in the Lord, and your name is not written in the book of life, you would never get to heaven.

Second... You are correct on the leadership requirements, one wife, un-reproachable, blameless before the world.

And yes, it is the Holy Spirit that cleans us up, guides us into living the way He desires, no matter how hard I try to live a sinless life, it would be all works, not faith.

The purpose of this blog was to show how we are forgiven, all sins are forgiven, that according to Rev. 17:8, all whose names are not written in the book of life will go to hell. And only those whose names are NOT written in the Book of Life go to hell.

That we as Christians spend too much time trying to get away from and judging the world, instead of sharing the Good News, that Christ died for EVERYONE. 

Instead of being repulsed from the un-believer, we are called to be side by side with them, leading the way to Christ, instead of bashing them over the head with scriptures about them going to hell. Tell them to believe that ALL of their sins have been washed away, admitting that their way of life is wrong, letting Christ enter and take control. Let the Holy Spirit do His work within them.

Gary and IHS,

It might be helpful to define the words we're using and understand the context of the scriptures we're using.

Gary, Romans 7 is talking about a person who is trying to walk out his Christian life in the flesh.

Paul is not describing his own miserable walk in Christ - even though he uses the first person.  Anybody who has tried to walk this thing out in the flesh understands the frustration of Romans 7.  The harder we try to clean ourselves up, the bigger mess we make of things.

IHS is absolutely correct to keep his eye on the scriptures.  Gary, we can get bogged down in the weeds of life.  Examining whether I sin or not is an exercise in futility.  The bible says that we who have been baptized into Christ are free from sin.  That literally means, "sin free".

Taking inventory of the sin in our lives keeps the flesh alive.  This is also the problem with trying to keep the Law as a means for righteousness.  The Law reminds us of sin.

Sin is a violation of the Law.  Righteousness is not obtained by not sinning.  This is the genius of Paul's gospel.  God imputed righteousness to Abram PRIOR to the giving of the Law.  Sin is a violation of the Law and righteousness has nothing to do with the Law.

This is revolutionary because the entire world equates righteousness with keeping the Law (or some similar standard of perfection).  Paul said:

Christ is the end of the theology of "Law for Righteousness" but only if you believe it.  If you're still under the old notion that keeping Law makes you righteous then you are obliged to keep the whole Law.  This is what Paul refers to as being "under Law".

Obviously, the story doesn't stop here.  The question begs, "Can I sin my face off and still be righteous?"  Technically yes but practically no.  Sin has a corrosive effect on how we relate to God.  Continuing in sin alienates us from who we are and what Jesus came to do.

If I'm a child molester and I came to Jesus for freedom from that sin, yet I still commit that sin then the reason for coming to Jesus goes away.

If I came to Jesus so that He could give me a nice house and car, I don't have an eternal purpose for staying with Him.  As soon as He gives me my stuff, I can leave Him.  But if I come to Jesus out of the realization that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing, I have eternal staying power.  Because without Jesus, my life is not worth living.

When I came back to the Lord after decades of being away, the meaning of the hymn, I Need Thee Every Hour hit me like a ton of bricks.  To this day, it is my favorite hymn because it defines my desparate need for Jesus' rescue from the mess which is Rob.

I need thee O, I need thee!  Every hour I need thee.  O bless me now my Savior, I come to thee!

Amen!