When Jesus came out of the grave He didn't rise on Sunday Morning..He rose on the Sabbath Day...Saturday. When Mary came to the tomb on Sunday....while it was still dark....Jesus was gone....He left the day before....That's why He's Lord of the Sabbath....

Some more links from well-known online informational resources, for a balanced study (with links for further study):

http://www.gotquestions.org/Saturday-Sunday.html

http://www.catholic.com/library/Sabbath_or_Sunday.asp

http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/f/sundayworship.htm

I agree, don't just take one person's word for it! :-)

Prophet Jay I stand with you my friend....

The truth according to the Spirit which must agree with the Word. Anyone teaching anything that is contrary to the Word is also teaching contrary to the Spirit.

No wonder the Body of Christ is in a state of confusion...too many commentaries of mans opinions, because people do not want to obey God....

I would disagree that with the assertion that "people are literally worshipping the sun and don't even realize it".  For worship to be worship, it has to be LITERALLY directed at something.  No matter which day of the week it is...I KNOW what I'm worshipping...

Do I not worship on Thursday b/c it's Thor's Day?...of course not.

Along the same lines...the months of the year are named after false gods and we know ppl who won't say the name of the month b/c they say they are worshipping a false god by saying it, which imho, is NONSENSE!

But the Saturday/Sabbath might be a more plausible argument/"discussion"!

I just watched this which goes right along with what MarJay said!

http://www.mychurch.org/blog/461146/THEOLOGICAL-JELLO

I eat meat.

I go to church on Sundays.

I wear poly-cotton.

My garden has mixed seeds & weeds alike! 

I even shave my legs! haha!  ;p

LOL @ Minister of Poetry!

[star!]

Crystal,

The Church of Christ meets on the first day of the week NOT because they think it's the Sabbath but because there's scriptural precident:

The KJV states it as if it were a regular gathering.  The first day of the week is when the disciples came together to break bread.  This is the ONLY regular meeting (except for daily in the temple (Acts 2:46)) that we have any evidence of in the New Testament.  In fact, if it were not for Acts 20:7 then we would have to assume that the early church either gathered on the Sabbath or we would have to assume that they did not meet regularly.

Rob

[star!]

right on Preston Pittman

  If you are under the old covenant it doesn't matter if you obey this commandment or not, because you will not be able to follow all of them.

MarJay,

Let's use the logic you presented, okay?

"Gods time goes from sundown to sundown (24 hours)"

That being the case, therefore, it is VERY easy to arrive at a tomb "early on the first day of the week" and it still be dark.  "Early" is as dark as "late" is when the day starts at night.

For example: If the day starts at sundown and you live where I do (Cincinnati, OH), the sun goes down around 9:30 at night (in the summer.  It goes down about 6:00 in the winter).  If the day started at sundown (9:30PM) then 10:30 or 11:00PM could be considered "early the next day".

Mary (in our reckoning of time) went to Jesus' tomb on Saturday night (early on the first day of the week).  Keep in mind that Sabbath starts at sundown Friday night and goes to sundown Saturday night. This is one of the reasons the Catholic Church went to Saturday evening worship services.

IHS is absolutely correct: Judging others for observing or not observing days as holy is a clear violation of the New Testament scriptures.

Or so it seems to me,

Rob

If you want to follow the Sabbath, then you are REQUIRED to do the following:

No Carrying, Burning, . Extinguishing. Finishing . Writing . Erasing
. Cooking . Washing . Sewing . Tearing. Knotting. Untying. Shaping
. Plowing. Planting. Reaping. Harvesting. Threshing. Winnowing
. Selecting. Sifting. Grinding. Kneading. Combing. Spinning. Dyeing
. Chain-stitching. Warping. Weaving. Unraveling. Building. Demolishing
. Trapping. Shearing. Slaughtering. Skinning. Tanning. Smoothing. Marking

And don't forget, you may NOT travel more than about 1 mile.

The truly orthodox will not even allow turning on or off any electrical devise!

MarJay,

I have to quote you again because you are completely off-base (wrong).

"When Jesus came out of the grave He didn't rise on Sunday Morning..He rose on the Sabbath Day...Saturday. When Mary came to the tomb on Sunday....while it was still dark....Jesus was gone....He left the day before....That's why He's Lord of the Sabbath...."

Let's examine the scriptures:

Luke reveals that "early on the fist day of the week" (indicated by John) was "morning".  This supports the facts presented in my previous comment.  It can be all of, "early", "dark", AND "first day of the week" and still fit all accounts of Jesus' resurrection.

Jesus had plenty of time, on the first day of the week, to rise from the dead and get out of the tomb before His friends arrived.  To suggest that He rose on the Sabbath day is to read something into the scripture that is simply not there.

Rob

One other thing, MarJay:

Preston Pittman hit the nail on the head.  Jesus is not Lord of the Sabbath because He rose on the Sabbath Day (as you erroneously claimed).  Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath because He is the one who has freed us from all these petty religious observances.

Hebrews 3 and 4 explain why Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath better than I can here.  Hebrews 4 also explains why tithes and offerings are invalid in the Christian era.  If there is no Levitical priesthood, there's no one to pay your tithes to.  There's no worldly temple to support either.

Under the Law, certain people were holier than others.  Under the Law, certain places were holier than others.  Under the Law, certain days, weeks, times, and years were holier than others.  One of the ways we can tell if a person is under Law is if that person calls another person by some religious title.

Titles such as Reverend, Father, Pastor, Bishop, Rabbi, Master, Sensei, Guru, Imam, etc. are  titles specifically revoked by the Messiah. "... for One is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren."  These titles show a reverence for people that the Master specifically prohibited.

Being burdened by Law and calling your preacher "Reverend" is some of the religious bondage Jesus came to save us from.  Revering man, food, things, time, and land are religious gimmicks designed to enslave mankind.  Jesus, speaking to everyone who would be free from such religious puke, said:

THAT is why Jesus is called Lord of the Sabbath.

Rob

Talking,

Read Hebrews and familiarize yourself with the difference between the Old and New Covenants.  Jesus didn't rebuke the Pharisees for keeping the commandments, He rebuked them for how they kept them.

Jesus kept the Law perfectly (except for the Sabbath).  He went to the temple but never offered an animal sacrifice for sin - because He is sinless.  The sacrifice of Jesus' body was not for His sin but for ours.  We don't offer sacrifice for sin because the sacrifice of Jesus makes us perfect.

Hebrews 10:14 tells us that because of what Jesus did, we are perfect and sanctified.

How many preachers have you heard say, "We're not perfect"?  That confession denies the blood of Jesus.  How many preachers exhort people to become sanctified?  Trying to become something that the bible tells us we already are is the textbook definition of frustration.  Trying to become perfect denies that the blood of Jesus makes us perfect.  Trying to become sanctified denies that the blood of Jesus sanctifies us.  Trying to become righteous denies that the blood of Jesus makes us righteous.

Suggesting that God may be angry with you denies that Jesus is the propitiation for sin. Teaching that we are "under the curse" for not tithing denies that Jesus became a curse for us.

When people teach that we need to work hard to get the sin out of our lives deny that Jesus has already gotten the sin out of our lives.

Religion is designed to alienate us from God by convincing us to work hard for the things God has freely given.  This theology takes us out of the Spirit and puts us back in the flesh.  The resultant frustration eventually makes us hate God and ourselves.  Religion holds out the promise of union with God but  the tactics employed result in separation.

Most people who hold themselves out to be ministers of the gospel do not know the scriptures. Since my return to the Lord, I have discovered that almost all of the preachers in my denomination (the church of Christ) are ill-informed at best and diabolic deceivers at worst.  They're all unrepentant.

Rob

 MarJay HizWay

you quoted this scripture: Which is from Exodus.

31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

You also say that you follow the Sabbath, because it is written in the Law.

so when you follow the Law, you must follow it to the letter! If you break even one of them, then you are guilty of all.

Here is what I am getting to:

By following the Sabbath, you MUST follow it in it's entirety, not just what is conveinient!

You may NOT cook, drive, turn on the lights, use the computer, write, put on makeup, use any electricity for any purpose, sew, .... there are 39 areas of our life that MUST be followed, see my post above for more details. If you fail to follow these in any way, then you do NOT follow the Sabbath.

Just by typing on your computer, you have broken the Sabbath, and according to your quote, are to be taken out and put to death.

And if you purposely sin, then you have no part in Christ.

Christ came to fulfil the Law, when He died on the cross, He forgave ALL sin.

Yes, He came to fulfill the Law, He became the final sacrifice for sin.

As to your quote in Romans, you did not finish the quote:

 The Holy Spirit puts the desire to follow the Lord in our hearts, for to follow the Law in our flesh is not possible. That is why the priest's had to sacrifice every year, the people were unable to follow it, and by putting yourself back under the Law, you will have to sacrifice Christ over and over.

MarJay,

Let's use the logic you presented, okay?

"Gods time goes from sundown to sundown (24 hours)"

That being the case, therefore, it is VERY easy to arrive at a tomb "early on the first day of the week" and it still be dark.  "Early" is as dark as "late" is when the day starts at night.

My point was that when they got there Jesus was gone.  Jesus was resurrected just before sundown on SATURDAY.. Anytime after sundown would be Sunday.  He was not resurrected on Sunday nor died on Good Friday.  You can not get 3 days and 3 nights from that....That's the sign Jesus gave.  Matt. 12:38-40

You said...

MarJay,

I have to quote you again because you are completely off-base (wrong).

"When Jesus came out of the grave He didn't rise on Sunday Morning..He rose on the Sabbath Day...Saturday. When Mary came to the tomb on Sunday....while it was still dark....Jesus was gone....He left the day before....That's why He's Lord of the Sabbath...."

Let's examine the scriptures:

The scriptures you quoted DO NOT prove that Jesus rose on Sunday...I go to work at 5:00 A.M. in the morning and it is still DARK....In reference to Jesus....He was gone when Mary got there

Luke 24:1-3
Matthew 28:1-6
Mark 16:2-6

I am not reading anything into scripture...JESUS Himself said that He was Lord of the Sabbath...The bible speaks for itself...

God knows that there may be times when things may need to be done on the Sabbath day....Just like in the example above...They were hungry...so they ate...They were not out there doing a bunch of manual labor..They just plucked some ears of corn....Some people may have to work on the Sabbath Day to provide for their families...God knows your heart....God surely will not hold your feet to the fire....He is the LORD of the Sabbath....He decides what's right and wrong....But for those that do not work, and CHOOSE to keep the Sabbath day....then that is exactly what He expects you do...Again....those that CHOOSE to do so.

And brother Rob....I don't erroneously claim anything...JESUS declared HIMSELF to be the LORD OF THE SABBATH.  He is the One who wrote the commandments and He don't change. It was He who led the children of Israel through the wilderness...He didn't just show up in the New Testament....Thank you for this scripture...Let  me quote it from another translation...

It was JESUS, not Joshua that led them through the wilderness.  Me, personally I'm laboring to enter into that rest...that's WHY I observe the Sabbath Day.

You said...

Titles such as Reverend, Father, Pastor, Bishop, Rabbi, Master, Sensei, Guru, Imam, etc. are  titles specifically revoked by the Messiah. "... for One is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren."  These titles show a reverence for people that the Master specifically prohibited.

Being burdened by Law and calling your preacher "Reverend" is some of the religious bondage Jesus came to save us from. 

I know a whole lot of people who carry these titles and they don't observe the Sabbath Day.  I don't wear any of these titles, and I DO, and I ain't being burdened in any way, shape, or form (smile)....I count it an honor to obey God because I LOVE Him.  You quoted Matthew 11:28-30 correctly and I agree....His yoke is EASY...and His burdens are LIGHT.  What people fail to realize is that there are more than one law....JESUS paid the price for our sins by dying for us...and I'm thankful for that..

This don't have nothing to do with keeping the Royal Laws...Jesus indeed washed ALL my sins away...and I'm gonna do MY part to make sure it stay that way.....for SIN is the breaking of the law....

I love the Lord, don't use His Name in vain, I don't kill....I don't steal...I don't lie....I don't covet my neighbors stuff, I honor my mother and father, etc. etc. and when I mess us....I can go to Jesus..and he is faithful and just to forgive me, and cleanse me from all unrighteousness ;o)

MarJay HizWay

As long as you follow the Sabbath because you like to, not because you think you have too.

When we place ourselves at the mercy of the Law, we will ALWAYS fail, because it is not possible to fulfill the LAW. That is why Christ died, He accomplished what we could never do, because to follow the Law, we have to do it without failing EVER, for the rest of your life.

If you do fail, while trying to live by the Law in the flesh, you have made His death of no use. Because breaking the Law, just once requires a new blood sacrifice.

As to forgiveness, when Christ died on the cross, He was the final sacrifice, He died once, 

This is something He has just recently showed me..... to keep asking for forgiveness, is the same as putting Him back on the cross, over and over. 

When He died, He forgave ALL sin, mine, yours, Obama's, Hitler's, the junky on the street corner..... ALL sin. 

 Salvation is acknowledging our sins, having a broken and contrite heart, and thanking Him for His sacrifice. Submitting to His will in our lives, allowing the Holy Spirit place within us a new heart and mind. It is only by the Holy Spirit that the Law is kept, in the spirit (heart), not in the flesh. If you try to live by the Law in the flesh (your actions), you crucify Christ over and over.

Sin is NO LONGER an issue with the Lord, because He died for it ALL. What is at issue is whether our names are written in the Book of Life!!!!!

Gary Robison,

I marvel at how you so clearly state your case. All I can say is, "WOW!"

Evidently, MarJay considers going to church, keeping the Sabbath.  If you read her comments, that seems to be the extent of her Sabbath keeping.

I read some of the link that you gave about Carrying, Building and Extinguishing a Fire, and other things that constitute "work".  That is fascinating.  Getting in a car and driving to church is "work" because it involves building a fire and turning on a machine with electricity.

MarJay,

You didn't read what I wrote so there's no sense in restating it.  I'm not saying that Jesus died on Friday.  I can do simple arithmetic.  But Jesus rose on the first day of the week.  It was still night time when he rose (Saturday night or thereabout) and the disciples didn't discover He had risen until early the next morning.

As I type, this is the first day of the week.  It's been the first day of the week since about 9:30ish Saturday evening (sundown).  If I had started typing at 10:00pm, it would still have been the first day of the week.

Honestly, we don't know when Jesus rose from the dead.  We only know that His tomb was found empty on the morning of the first day of the week.  If He rose on the Sabbath we'll never know - because the scriptures are completely silent.

We do know that Jesus had "not yet ascended to the Father" on the morning of the first day of the week.  Either He was just hangin' out in the grave yard or He hadn't had time to "ascend" yet.  We don't know which it was because the scriptures are completely silent as to when He rose from the dead.  All we know is that His death took place three days and three nights prior to His resurrection.  We do not have enough information to judge which day He died because, as MarJay points out, He could very well have risen on one of those Sabbaths.

When we get to heaven, we can all play "Jesus Trivia" and find out which days all this took place on.  We'll have eternity to learn all the answers to all the questions the bible does not answer.  Sounds like fun, don't it?

Rob

IHS,

Let me see if I am understanding you right.  You wrote:

"There is a (Grace ONLY) doctrine being promulgated and it makes me sick to my stomach, because this type of teaching keeps people tied their sins and believing that the blood of Jesus Christ will wash away ALL of their sins past, present and future."

Are you saying that the blood of Jesus does not continue to wash away sin ("past, present, and future")?  Speaking as a former backslider, I think I need clarification on this point.  Am I just wasting my time trying to "buddy up" with Jesus after living my life for Satan for so long?  Am I still in my sins?

Just curious,

Rob

Wow. I've been on here reading from start to finish, I'm a slow reader making sure I don't miss any thing. What  a morning. I've got more scriptures floating around than I have had in a very long time. Good one Bro. Going back to the beginning,
Sabado, means Saturday, in spanish. Which translates to Sabbath. I got it!!  It is holy unto the Lord, Amen!!
Because of miss spellings, I deleated my first comment, Your star is gone!?!

ihsallthetime

I understand where you are coming from, but I have not seen any Grace Only posts.

If people would take the time to read others posts, instead of jumping into their own tirade, people would see that what is being said is "the Holy Spirit puts the desire to follow the Law of Christ" 

It is when we try in ourselves to follow the Law we fail. It is all the Holy Spirit.

If I try to please the Lord by my own power, by forcing the Law, then I am not in the spirit but the flesh, and will never please the Lord, for He is not pleased by fleshly works. 

If you tell others that they MUST follow the Law, but being a Law breaker your self, then you become no better than the Pharisees, white-washed graves, full of death and all types of vileness. 

If you say you must follow the Law, then you must follow it ALL. And if you break just one, then you will need to find a bull to sacrifice, because Christ's blood was not good enough for you. 

Oops, oh wait... if you follow the Law, then you can't sacrifice a bull, unless you are a priest of the line of Levi, for only a Levite priest could offer sacrifices in the Temple...... hummm. so was Christ following Moses Law when He became our sacrifice? He was not a Levi..... So by what Law did He become our sacrifice? It was by fulfilling the Law, living it perfectly, then He became a sacrifice to fulfill the blood requirement, all done through the Melchizedek priesthood.

So if you MUST follow the Law, and EVER break just one, then there is no hope for you. For you are still under Moses, not Melchizedek.

Again, if you allow the Holy Spirit live through you, in His power, He will place within you the desire to follow the commands of Christ ... love the Lord with all your heart and love your brother as yourself. 

If you follow the Sabbath because the Law, then you MUST follow it in whole,

You may NOT carry a Bible, you may NOT drive, you may NOT put on any makeup, you may NOT carry money, do I need to go on?

If you do any of the above, then you are not following the Sabbath. For to follow the Sabbath Law is more than just going to church on Saturday, it is separating that day out to make it HOLY. There are NO gray areas. If you are going to follow the Sabbath, then do so, but don't tell people you follow the Sabbath and mock the Lord.

this is a copy of a reply to a post on Seventh Day

PJ,

I'm not basing my judgment on an isolated instance.  I have gone from congregation to congregation looking for people who understand God. 

One preacher, in Northern Kentucky, told his congregation not to depend on God's grace.  But the bible says:

This same preacher said that we are not in the Spirit but in the flesh.  The bible says:

Another preacher from the Norwood church of Christ said, "God made two ways for us to be saved.  We can obey the Law perfectly or we can use Jesus."  The bible says:

Another preacher from the Clifton church of Christ said that John 14 through 16 are promises made ONLY to the apostles.  I asked him what Jesus meant when He said that He's going to prepare a place for us.  Was Jesus going to prepare a place for ONLY His apostles?  This reprobate could not answer the question.

Another preacher from the Withamsville church said that the following verse is not an "airtight promise":

But my bible says that EVERY promise God ever made is "Yes" in Christ.

Another preacher in the CrossPointe church of Christ (in Middletown) said that God takes His Spirit away from people who backslide.  He used Old Testament scriptures to prove it.  But my bible says:

One elder in the church of Christ got up in the pulpit and said that Paul had a big problem with sin in his life.  He used 2 Corinthians 12 to prove it.

In one bible study class, the teacher said that God gave the Israelites 40-years in the desert to repent.  I pointed out that God wasn't waiting for them to repent, He was waiting for them to die.

My point is that from the highest to the lowest levels, the church of Christ is "uninformed" to say the least.  Preachers have no business in the pulpit if they do not have a consistent theology.  Jesus said that if the blind lead the blind, they will both fall into the ditch.

My experience with these people is diverse.  I'm not talking about a single instance where one preacher was stupid beyond belief.  I have been to several congregations in the church of Christ in the Cincinnati area and I have only found one who understands what he believes. I'm a member of his congregation.  The rest are speaking lies in hypocrisy and they are unrepentant.

My problem is not with God (as your post indicates); my problem is with the religious establishment.  Interestingly, Jesus had problems with the religious establishment as well.  It seems to me that I'm in good company.

Rob

IHS,

You didn't speak to the issue.  You made an erroneous statement then when you were challenged, you changed the subject.I'm asking you to clarify your position.

Your post indicated that if a person gets saved, that God does not forgive future sin. I have a personal stake in your theology.  If you are correct, I am still in my sins.

In 1985 or 1986, I stopped going to church, reading my bible, praying, etc.  In 2003, I begged God to take me back into the fold.  If your theology is correct then God cannot forgive the sin I committed between 1986 and 2009.

Admit it, dude.  Your religion defined God's forgiveness in terms that even you yourself don't believe.  You would NEVER say that I'm wasting my time living my life for God but if you REALLY believed the junk you write you would have to conclude that there is nothing I or God can do about my situation. 

I'll ask you to repent but I suspect that that is impossible for you.  Let me guess, you're a preacher, right?

Rob

Which sin did Christ forgive when He died on that cross?

My bible says the God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son.

If you look at the shadow the Lord gave us at the temple, the High Priest had to go up annually, to offer a sacrifice for the people. This sacrifice was offered whether the people asked for it or not. And when the Lord saw the blood, the sins were forgiven.

When Christ died on the cross, He died only once, and in so doing forgave ALL sin, or else He would have to come back and be sacrificed over and over.

So Hitler's sins, my sins, your sins, and even Obama's sins are forgiven. Because of the BLOOD, sin is no longer the issue, it is the relationship we have with Christ, that is ALL that matters... whether our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

To clarify, the price of sin is still death, physical death that is.

If someone does drugs, he may still get AIDS or hepatitis.

If he repents (has a change of heart) and comes to the Lord, Christ does not get back on the cross, He forgave the sin AT the cross.

But if he slips and falls, Christ does not quit loving him, any more that He does when you tell your boss a little white lie, or speed on the highway. For all sin is the same.

But if he falls back into his old life, he will no longer seek the face of the Lord, and will turn his back on the Lord, it is when this happens that he removes himself from God's camp, and goes back to the camp of the enemy.

Amen Gary dude!  That's it!

But I want to know if He'll forgive George Bush's sins?  (hahahaha!  Just kidding.)

I'm inclined to believe as you do, Gary.  For the cross of Jesus to be a "finished work", it almost has to work that way.  God's forgiveness and every good and perfect gift are on the table.  It's up to us to lay hold of those gifts, whether forgiveness of sins or gifts of the Holy Ghost.

But just because God forgives us does not mean we automatically abide in that forgiveness.  The gospel of John teaches that all of mankind is under the wrath of God and that only in Jesus are we saved from that wrath.

In order to have everlasting life, we have to believe the Son.  Otherwise the wrath of God abides on us.

Jim Richards and Andrew Wommack are of the "Word of Faith" movement.  Mainstream Word of Faith denies that God's wrath exists today - that Jesus took care of the wrath of God on the cross.  To me, that's a little extreme.  Jesus is the propitiation for our sins but in order to appropriate that propitiation, we have to believe Jesus.  (Not merely believe in Jesus but believe that He's telling the truth - i.e. believe what He says.)

This theology gives meaning to the ritual of baptism (a mainstream church of Christ doctrine) because it marks the starting point of our "laying hold of" the gift of forgiveness and the gift of God's Spirit (Acts 2:38).  But that's a whole-nother-blog.

Rob

Yes, the sin is forgiven, but we still have to except it. We still have to repent ( to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.)

We still need the Holy Spirit, else we slip right back into the old lifestyle, and are like the seeds scattered on the stony ground, amongst weeds, or in the sun.

  ihsallthetime

above you wrote:

If I tell you I am saved from being a drug addict and then you see me in the drug den snorting some coke, would you say I am saved?

Then I also ask, if I tell you I am saved, but get a speeding ticket, or I tell a white lie, or even if my pride or spikes up here on MyChurch, am I still saved?

Is snorting coke worse than any other sin?

ihsallthetime

I read that from your last comment, and I do seek the Kingdom of God first, and HIS righteousness, not my self-righteousness, 

so again.. I ask:

 Is snorting coke worse than any other sin?

 Are you or anyone else on this blog, or this community without sin?

If not, then according to your statement above... out of your own mouth (fingers)

you are NOT saved

The Word of G-d tells me that sin will not be forgiven (Hebrews chapters 6 and 10).  It is called (WILLFUL SIN) and also many other scriptures tells me I must be Holy to enter into the Kingdom of heaven.  

Because if you know it is sin to lie, but tell the tiniest white lie, you are damned, because you willfully sinned.

If you know you are speeding, you will not go to heaven.

If you know that eating that extra piece of pie is not good for your body, but eat it anyway, you are hell bound!

PJ, I thought I was speaking in love, but if I came across wrong, I am sorry.

I am passionate now, about Christians looking down on the world and other Christians because they don't have any VISIBLE sins. Thinking they are sinless, and expecting everyone to be as sinless, but in reality, having multiple hidden sins.

I know, because up until about 2-3 weeks ago, I too was one of those that bashed others for sinning, not obeying the Law. While all the time I had hidden sin.There in not one upon the earth who will ever be sinless, except Christ.

The Lord showed me His love, and the love He has for the world.

Sabbath does not, has not, never will, can't, won't, refuses to mean WORSHIP, or, 'GOING TO CHURCH'.  Case Closed.  Final Word.  Sabbath means REST, is that so hard to understand?  Sabbath means REST.  What is so difficult about understanding that Sabbath means REST?  Sabbath does not, never has and never will mean WORSHIP, or, 'GOING TO CHURCH'.  Please, let's all agree that Our Lord God and Savior desires for us to have a DAY OF REST.  Let us put it to REST, and, show even more love to one another.  Jesus would not break the Sabbath by rising on The Sabbath (i don't think?) (Forgive me Jesus, if i'm wrong).  He would wait and arise on Sunday so He wouldn't break the Sabbath Law of not working on the Sabbath.(i think?) (wouldn't He?) (Please Forgive me Jesus, if i'm wrong)  I Love  MarJay HizWay  in The Lord, regardless of how, or, what she believes!  I haven't gotten a greater feeling/discernment of peace and love from anyone else on MyChurch than MarJay HizWay .......{Bro-ken}

[star!]

WWJD about all this conflict in His church?

Ken, my problem is not taking a day of rest, for our bodies need the break.

The problem I have is so say we MUST keep the Sabbath.

To keep the Sabbath according to the Law, is very serious, more than just taking a day of rest. By the Law, it is refraining from the following:

Carrying, Burning, . Extinguishing. Finishing . Writing . Erasing
. Cooking . Washing . Sewing . Tearing. Knotting. Untying. Shaping
. Plowing. Planting. Reaping. Harvesting. Threshing. Winnowing
. Selecting. Sifting. Grinding. Kneading. Combing. Spinning. Dyeing
. Chain-stitching. Warping. Weaving. Unraveling. Building. Demolishing
. Trapping. Shearing. Slaughtering. Skinning. Tanning. Smoothing. Marking

including travel restrictions of no more that around 1 mile, by foot, for car travel is also forbidden, as is the use of any electrical device. Even carrying a wallet, purse, Bible, money, ect. is forbidden.

IHS,

Sorry about the "dude" thing.  After I posted that, I went to your Profile and saw that you are definitely not a "dude" :-)

But I'm not going to let that get in my way :-)  I'm trying to back you into a corner where you have to repent.  Here's what I mean:

I have a friend who loves God with all her heart.  She was saved at a young age.  When she was old enough, she got married but it didn't work out so she got a divorce.  Later, she remarried.  Because of all this, she has renounced her salvation.  Because nobody who is saved (according to her theology) can marry, divorce, and remarry.  After her re-marriage, she got saved.

Her doctrine teaches that God cannot forgive a Christian of the willfull sin of divorce and remarriage.  The only problem is that she had never stopped loving God.  So, in order to fix it, she renounced her salvation and got saved. (Not "got saved again but "got saved".  Period).

What kind of insanity is that?  God cannot forgive a Christian but He can forgive a non-Christian???  The logic fails on every level I can think of.

You would like my friend.  She's a sincere and loving person.  But her salvation is as strong as her ability to never sin like that again.  If she does, all she has to do is renounce her salvation and get right with God all over again.  Something tells me, however, her conscience won't let her get away with that very often.

My mother-in-law is in her late 80's and if you ask her if she's saved she'll tell you, "I don't know".  The woman's been in the church for as long as I have been alive and she cannot tell you with any certainty that she's saved.  I think it's because of the "God does not forgive Christians" theology.  It drives my wife and me crazy.

So I hear what you're saying, IHS, and I know exactly where it leads.  Thank God I'm WAY beyond that, in my walk.

When I backslid all those years ago, if I had died, I'd have gone straight to hell.  But at some point in my lost condition, I thought to myself, "If I die, what will I tell God when He asks whether I should go to heaven?  I know", I thought, "I'll say, 'Because of Jesus'".  Interestingly, it was not too many months afterward (maybe 12) that my life completely changed. (A felony sex crime conviction will do that to you.)

I didn't renounce my salvation of 30-years prior.  I just understood that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness - if we sin.  Somehow, with everything I learned, I must have picked up the doctrine that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins - EVEN IF WE HAPPEN TO BE CHRISTIANS.

Honestly, if my relationship with God was based on whether or not I sinned, I'd have to give up right now.  The Apostle John said that "all unrighteousness is sin" (1 Jn. 5:17).  Righteousness depends on our belief in the promises of God (Rom. 4:20-22).  How many times did I not trust God in one area or another?  The Apostle Paul said that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (Rom. 14:23).  Whenever I worry about having enough money to pay the bills, I'm magnifying my circumstance over the promises of God.  Worry is the antithesis of faith.

Gary Robison's point is valid.  Sin is sin.  Snorting paint-thinner is as wicked as worrying about paying the bills.  Neither of these are "deal breakers" in the eyes of God.  But both represent a lack of trust in Him.  God is good.  He wants us to trust Him and He knows that trust is learned.

The Apostle James says that God doesn't "tempt" us with sin.  But the Apostle Paul tells us that God "trieth our hearts" (1 Thess 2:4)  The NIV says that He, "tests our hearts".  We'd all like to say, "I trust God in every area of my life!"  We would want that to be true.  And it is true as long as our checkbook is in the black.  But when it goes into the Red we start worrying about how we're going to pay our bills.  And we know that that darn bank is going to slaughter us with those overdraft fees again.

Life has a way of proving us all to be liars.  But God is good.  In Psalms, it says "His mercy endureth forever".  I'm glad God's like that.  How 'bout choo?

Rob

Marcia, what kind of parent would I be if my son, after being told that he was not aloud to play the XBOX after 11pm, got back on the XBOX, so I throw him out the door and tell him NEVER return?

Or what kind of mom would I have, if after telling me not to get into her apple pie, I go ahead and get her last piece, so she tells me never return to her house?

This is your relationship with the Father, you cower and fear, so afraid of doing the slightest thing to upset Him.

I remember growing up like that with my step dad, who was drunk and high almost all the time, and I would cower and live in fear of upsetting him, so I could avoid the bruising and bloody welts on my back.

Sorry, but I want a better relationship than that with my Heavenly Father.

Paul wrote on this too, he said the things he knew he should do, he kept messing up on, and those things he knew he shouldn't do, he kept doing. So according to your relationship with the Lord, Paul is sitting in Hell.

Rob it seems to me that your writing speaks for itself. 

I always tell everyone respect and loyalty is earned.  Jesus Christ has earned my respect, love and loyalty.  More than any man, woman, or child on this planet.  If He tells me to go here or there I will go.  If I die I die, so be it.  If I willfully sin against Him, I would then have deserved my time in hell, because He is the only one that forgave me of all the wicked things I have done prior to knowing Him.  My life proves my respect and loyalty to Him.  I bet if the President of the U.S.A, comes to your house right now you would be frantically trying to put away anything that will offend him and he is just a mere human.  Just some food for thought.   

You keep skipping over the (willful sin) part of all my responses to you.

Let me now ask you a question.  Have you ever committed willful sin?

So I assume you are totally without sin Marcia?

At least that is what you are saying here, that you have NO sin in your life.(1Jn 1:8)

I was at the same place you are, but I could not get around what the meaning of repent was, I was always taught that to repent meant turn from your sins, to quit doing them, but I challenge you to look the word up in a Greek concordance, see what the meaning of repent is.

I am not saying we should live in sin, but rather we let the Holy Spirit move in us, He will give us a new heart and mind, one which desires to please Him. Living a sinless life is not possible, for we are human, subject to the flesh. But through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, we have a desire to live Holy. 

Do I desire to sin, not any more, for He has renewed my mind, and is doing so daily. But I know I can walk boldly to the throne, because of the blood of Christ.

I can have confidence in my walk with Christ, because I know if I slip, He is there to catch me, and He has given me new desires.

What I have learned, and am still learning... that our walk with Him MUST be in the spirit, for if we try to please Him in our flesh, it will always fail, for the flesh does not please Him. 

Pray!!!!!!!!

I have battled lust all my life, I come from a very lustful dad, who was proud to have had multiple women, he was a "swinger". I still battle this, but am no longer under condemnation, because I know if I slip, He has forgiven me.

I still have HUGE temptations with Pornography, in my business I contend with it all the time, cleaning computers.

But the Holy Spirit within me helps me with these temptations. Have I slipped since being saved and born again... yes.. am I proud of it? Absolutely NO.

Satan would love for me to give up on the Lord, and condemn me, telling me I have sinned, now I am not saved. 

I know if I were to continue and ignore the Holy Spirit, then my heart would be calloused, and I would walk away from the Lord. 

Yes Marcia, I have,  There is not one human alive that can say they are sinless, and if they do, they lie.

Here is a little bit of scripture I think you will like though.

1 Corinthians 5:5 deals with a man caught in fornication, Paul tells them to get him out of the congregation, because of his sin, to deliver him to Satan, so his flesh may be destroyed, but his spirit be saved.

Then in 2 Corinthians Chapter 2, he tells them to forgive him, and bring him back into the fold.

If we repent of the sin, He is faithful and forgives us. How many times can we repent of a sin? Christ said 70 times 7.

since you evidently didn't look up repent, here is the definition:

metanoeō; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

It is all in the spirit, not the flesh.

Marcia,  have read and commented there earlier.

Ha!  Have I ever committed willful sin?  I'll let my criminal record speak for itself.

I was baptized into Christ in 1974.  By 1980, I was in serious trouble (spiritually).  By 1985 I had completely turned my back on God.  In 1987 (at age 32), I married a little Methodist girl (she was 30) from the suburbs (I'm just a kid from the ghetto).

Culturally, my wife and I were on the opposite side of life in a lot of ways.  She was raised Methodist and I was raised Catholic.  She'd never thought much about her relationship with God.  I converted to Christian fundamentalism in 1974.  She grew up in the 'burbs.  I grew up on the other side of the tracks.  I was a "saver"; she was a "spender".  She liked to control stuff and I liked to sabotage controllers.  We didn't get along well.

My life was out of control and I had no one to blame but myself.  By the mid-1990s, I'd started drinking pretty heavily. 

In 2000, we moved to a suburb northwest of Cincinnati.  A little girl from across the street liked the attention I was showing her.  I liked how she liked it.  She made me feel like God Himself.  I could do no wrong in her eyes. We took walks to the park.  We played together.  Eventually, I started giving her back-rubs and touching her inappropriately.  All I could do was think about my little girl friend.  I dreamed about her.  I fantasized about touching her.  I LOVED her!  But I remember telling myself, "You've got to quit touching her".  I'd behave myself for about a week then...

In August 2003, my neice discovered me touching and kissing on my victim. I was maybe a week or two from going all the way with my little friend.  I was 48.  She was 14.

In April 2004, I was convicted of Gross Sexual Imposition - a felony.  I was sentenced to 5-years probation and 10-years sex offender's registration.  One condition of my probation was that I attend Sex Offender Therapy. 

In 2007, without trial, my registration requirement was increased by the State of Ohio to 25-years. There's nothing I can do about it.  So if President Obama came to my house, I would insist he declare the State of Ohio guilty of ex-post facto law violation and make them reverse the decision.  But I digress...

In 2003 or 2004 (I can't remember which), I closed my eyes and all I could see in my mind's eye was rubble from the damage I'd caused by my sin.  The only thing left standing was Jesus.  I saw Him clearly standing in the distance with His hands outstretched to me.  I begged Him to take control the mess that was my life.  I told Him, "You have to drive.  I can't do it anymore."

Marcia, I tried to live a good and godly life for Jesus back in the 1980's but I wasn't strong enough.  When I was still in church, I started dating the most beautiful woman I had ever met.  She had long blond hair and beautiful blue eyes.  She had a beautiful shape.  (I'm trying to keep this clean, alright?)  She was my "first" (if you know what I mean).  I was completely gah-gah for this woman.  Then she dumped me.  I was beside myself.

I was like a junky, chasing his first high.  Pretty soon I was jumping in and out of bed with lots of girls from church.  I didn't want to do it.  I prayed the prayer of the fornicator, "Please God, don't let her be pregnant.  I promise I'll never do that again!"  And I meant it...  for awhile.  A couple weeks would pass and I'd be right back at it.

Eventually, I had to leave the church because of my filthy reputation.  I started dating outside the church where sexual immorality wasn't such a big deal. Sexual immorality has pretty much defined my life.

Here's where I disagree with Gary.  The Apostle Paul describes a person who knows the right thing to do but he finds himself failing all the time.  I remember that guy.  I was that guy.  Internet porn was something I spent HOURS looking at.  I could tell you stories that would make you gag.  I know what it's like to tell yourself, "You gotta quit doing that".  

I remember trying to be good and failing miserably.  I could not do it for myself and I could not do it for God.  There was no motivation that I could think of to keep me from obeying my master - sexual immorality.

Psychologists think that it's because you're not connecting with the reality of your offense.  Psychologists think that we can scare or shock ourselves into good behavior.  I'm here to tell you that when your master calls, you've GOT to obey him.  It wouldn't have mattered if I thought about going to jail.  I'd have touched her anyway.  In fact I did think about going to jail and thinking it would be worth it - if I could just go all the way with my little victim.

When I try to do good, evil is right there with me.  Thinking about how terrible or nasty it is only makes you want to do it more - not less.  The Law is spiritual but I am carnal; sold as a slave to sin.  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing.  For to will is present with me but how to perform that which is good, I find not.

There is nothing we can do to save ourselves from our master - sin.  Thanks be to God, Jesus took care of all that for us.  All we have to do is walk in the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.  Why didn't I know that 30-years ago?

So now, I trust God to keep me free from sin and He does.  But I'm here to tell you that Satan still brings things up from my past to affect my life today.  I recently discovered that my desire to divorce my current wife was the result of my determination to never allow someone to "do that to me again".  I was shocked to realize that my attitude was left over from my first marriage.  My attitude was not the kind of attitude Jesus took with me (when I came begging to come back).  Jesus could have taken the attitude, "Oh no!  I'm not going to let you abuse Me again!"

Thank God He didn't take such an attitude with me.  Thank God Jesus was willing to take me back and teach me how to trust Him for all my desires.  Thank God, I didn't allow fear to keep me from Him.  I tell stuff to God now that I would NEVER have told Him 30-years ago and more.   Jesus signed on to deal wilth my psychosis (sin) and I'm not holding back.

If I see a hot girl or woman walking down the street, I say, "Look at her, Jesus!"  You'd be surprised at how that defuses the situation.  Jesus is Lord of my lust (so to speak).

So, yeah.  I think I've committed my share of willful sin but I'm not going to let that interfere with my relationship with God.  If you think I'm just dreaming, well, don't wake me up.  I'm convinced more now than ever before that God is good ALL THE TIME.

Thank you, Jesus!

Rob

Thank You Prophet Jay for allowing The Holy Spirit to work through You on this blog.  We used to sing a beautiful song:  "It Only Takes a Spark to Get a Fire Going,  Then All Those Around Can Warm Up To It's Glowing.
That's How It Is With God's Love, Once You've Experienced It, da, da, da, da"  Anyway The Name of the Song (By Ralph Carmichael) is 'PASS IT ON'.  You, Through Christ Jesus, have done a Good Work Here!  The Same For Many Blog Ministries You Have Composed.  You Have Surely 'Passed Blessing On To Us'.  It is Christ Jesus Who Gets The Praise, but, anyway, Thank You Too Prophet Jay. 

And according to your theology, there's nothing I can do about my lost state, right?  I backslid big time and then I came back.  I "willfully sinned" and was renewed again unto repentance.  But according to your doctrine, there's nothing I can do.

"If she was re-married after she became born-again, there is nothing she can do.  See, the word to focus on is (willful sin), which is pre-meditated sin, meaning that the person is born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit who has taken up residence in them and they heard the warning perhaps even more than twice about a particular sin and they turn their back to the Holy Spirt's warning and wooing and go back to Satan."

I submit to you that if my salvation was based on something I could do then I'd probably believe your theology.  You have a good relationship with God as long as you cross every T and dot every i.  But if you step out of line even once then your tenuous relationship with God is over.  There's nothing you can do.

Jesus told us that we can have whatever we wish.  We receive whatever we believe.  Your biggest fear is that you might sin just once.  You have painted yourself into a corner.  Your relationship with God depends on how well you can obey.

If you walk by the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.  Jesus said, "Take no thought for your life".  Do you take thought for your life?  God has provided you with a job.  Have you ever "slacked off" on the job?  How do you apply your mean religion?

You're going to learn that "counting sins" is an exercise in futility.  Awareness of sin causes us to fall into it.  Well intentioned preachers exhort us to "work on the sin in our lives" and when we do, the result is more sin - not less.  Whatever we focus on, grows.

Therefore, if we focus on the goodness of God then all we'll experience is more goodness.  If we focus on others instead of ourselves then "self" decreases while others increase.  Focusing on how well we are obeying God's commandments, magnifies SELF.  We cannot die to ourselves if we're focused on ourselves.

Jesus didn't consider others better than Himself, He considered others without regard to self.  The Spirit of Jesus helps put our focus on others (God and everyone else).  This is the toughest lesson to learn.

Religion tends to focus on what we have to do for God.  Religion, therefore, MUST promote self.  The Law tends to put the focus on ourselves - how well we're obeying.  We can destroy ourselves by focusing on ourselves.  Religion tends to destroy people.

God has forgiven me a tremendous debt but I have not been as gracious with those who have trespassed against me.  I understand that this is because I'm focused on myself.  Whenever we hear ourselves say, "I will not be mistreated",  we can be sure that we are focused on ourselves.  If Jesus had had that attitude, He would never have submitted to the cross.

The Spirit of Jesus is one that wins by giving everybody whatever they wish.  This is why Jesus said, "Give to every man that asks of you".  Those are the rules of engagement.  That's how our side wins.

Keeping the Law has its benefits but Jesus didn't win because He kept the Law.  Jesus won because He seemed to have no sense of "self".  That's pretty cool, I think.

Rob

Breaking the Law does have consequences, by they are physical. If I continue to lust, I may wind up in someone else bed, with the barrel of a shotgun from an angry husband, or wind up getting AIDS. And because of sin, I start turning away from Christ, eventually turning my back on Him. Thus removing my name from His Book of Life.

If I dwell on the sin, then I cannot dwell on Him. When Christ died on the cross, and forgave sin, He forgave all future sin, else we would have NO salvation, for He died 2000 yrs ago, and we are now in the future future.

When we are born-again, we are born spiritually. Sin is physical. Law is physical. It deals with our carnal nature.

I am remarried too Lara. My first wife was the daughter of a preacher, but she could not stay in one bed.

  ihsallthetime

you quoted:

but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified  in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. vs 20 For you are bought with a price therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit which are God's.

He is stating this as if it has already happened, which it has, by faith... we cannot earn our way to heaven.

If you try, then Christ's sacrifice was of no use for you.

I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought. Galatians 2:19-21

If we are to forgive our brother 70x7, how much more will Christ forgive us?

IHS,

Believe it or not, I agree with you more than you know.  I am fully persuaded that a person who walks in the Spirit cannot sin.  Walking in the Spirit is a moment-by-moment thing, however.  I am fully persuaded that those who are born of God CANNOT sin because His seed abides in him.  But being "born of God" is a moment-by-moment thing.

Generally speaking, being "sin conscious" is not a healthy endeavor.  Sin is a transgression of the Law, right? (1 Jn. 3:4)  But the Law is the power of sin (1 Cor. 15:56).  If we compare our lives to the Law, we can become deceived.

To the Apostle Paul, being "under Law" and being "in the flesh" were the same thing.  In fact, the only way a person in the flesh can behave properly is by the Law.

Jim Richards has a great comeback for when people ask him, "Do you sin?"  He says, "I'm the worst one to ask that question because I honestly don't know.  Through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.  Therefore, order to accurately answer that question, I would have to be 'under law'."

Satan can get us under Law by asking the simplest of questions.  You really have to give the devil his due.  He is the master of deception.

Rob

B. B. Warfield is a classic example of one who opposes the idea of a 'carnal christian.'   He says,

'He who believes in Jesus Christ is under grace, and his whole course, in its process, and in its issues alike, is determined by grace, and therefore, having been predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son, he is surely being conformed to that image, God Himself seeing to it that he is not only called and justified but also glorified.  You may find Christians at every stage of the process, for it is a process through which all must pass; but you will find none who will not in God's own good time and way pass through every stage of it.  There are not two kinds of Christians, although there are Christians at every conceivable stage of advancement towards the one goal to which all are bound and at which all shall arrive.'

L. S. Chafer appropriately replies,

'Doubtless, there are varying degrees of carnality as there are varying degrees of spirituality, but the positive denial of the statement that there are two well defined classes of believers - 'carnal' and 'spiritual' - would be better supported by CONCLUSIVE EXPOSITION (emphasis mine) of a LARGE body of Scripture in which this two-fold classification of Christians seems to be taught.
In this reviewers mind, the change from carnality to spirituality is evidently confused with Christian growth.  Christian growth is undoubtedly a process of development under the determined purpose of God which will end, with the certainty of the Infinite, in a complete likeness to Christ; but spirituality is the present state of blessing and power of the believer who, at the same time, may be very immature.  A Christian can and should be spiritual from the moment he is saved.  Spirituality, which is the unhindered manifestations of the Spirit in life, is provided to the full for all believers who 'confess' their sins, 'yield' to God, and 'walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.'  When these conditions are complied with, the results are immediate; for no process is indicated.  Jacob, an OT type, was completely changed in one night.
Christian experience bears unfailing testimony to two outstanding facts: (1) There is an abrupt change from the carnal to the spiritual when the Biblical conditions are met.  And (2) there is an abrupt loss of spiritual blessing whenever there has been a yielding to sin.'

(Both quotes taken from He that is Spiritual by L. S. Chafer, pp. 67-68)

If there is no such thing as a backslidden or carnal Christian, then we should probably tear out the First Book of Corinthians from our Bibles. I’m not saying this to be sarcastic, but to be honest. How can anyone read chapter three in this book and say that there is no such thing as a Christian whose life is marked by carnality? You can’t say they aren’t Christians, because Paul calls the Corinthians “brothers,” a term he wouldn’t use with unbelievers. “And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are STILL NOT ABLE; for YOU ARE STILL CARNAL.
For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?”
I was reminded of something C.S. Lewis said in his intro to Mere Christianity: “When a man who accepts the Christian doctrine lives unworthily of it, it is much clearer to say he is a bad Christian than to say he is not a Christian.” I don’t agree with everything C.S. Lewis believes, but I think the idea here is that there are people who truly believe in Christ who exhibit poor behavior; who are immature Christians.

Angela,

I don't think Jay was telling us to shut up.  I think He was bemoaning the ineffective nature of the debate.  You, I discern, are a breath of fresh air!

Regarding "carnality", I'll grant you that being a Christian who engages in overt and blatant sin is a "carnal Christian", but I think the bible takes us one level deeper.

In Romans, Paul's usage of the word "carnal" is not reserved for people engaging in gross sin.  Any Christian who is "under Law" is also considered a carnal Christian.

Fully 50% (arguably) of the church of the first century was "under Law".  All of the Jewish church was legalistic and much of the Gentile church had fallen into that pattern.

Paul classified the whole Jerusalem church as "carnal" because they were under the carnal commandment.

The word "carnal" simply means "natural" or "fleshly".  Without the Spirit of God, we have no option BUT to worship God in the flesh.  Unfortunately, the flesh is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be.

We are not justified by keeping the commandments - no one ever was.  We are justified by faith in the promise of God.  And because of that, we have peace with Him.

People who are under the impression that God "disciplines" us when we step out of line do not believe they are justified by faith.  They think that as long as they "tow the line", God will not hurt them. These are carnal Christians who have reduced their religion to perfunctory observance.  Carnality tends to be fear-based.

Obviously, this is not a "license to sin" because those who love Jesus will automatically keep His commandments.  We, who are justified by faith only and not by works, are the only ones who are keeping the commandments of God.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who believe - not because we keep the Ten Commandments (including the Sabado).  Keeping the Ten Commandments is nothing and not keeping the Ten Commandments is nothing.  Righteousness is by faith in what God has promised.

Paul's definition of "carnal" included all those who would walk this thing out "in the flesh" ("under Law").  He didn't restrict his definition to those who were living in blatant sin.  When God revealed that to me, it changed my life.

Rob

Lara,

I don't know...  You should be a better judge of whether or not you were...  WAIT A MINUTE!

Do you equate "born again" with being "saved"?  Maybe that's what you were saying.

Were you saved when you were married the first time?

Rob