How many people are dying because of not keeping the Sabbath?  I truly need to know this to proceed. I am not, in any way, playing the devil's advocate. I am serious about this.  Who all is making claims that they are observing the Sabbath in it's entirety as commanded.  If they are not, then, how is it that they are able to stay alive? How do they get The Lord God of Hosts to change His mind? I will rest more in The Lord Jesus by getting some of these questions answered.

Ken, I would estimate ZILLIONS! That includes 99.9% of the church!!

(TIC)

Like the bible says....Jesus is the same, yesterday....today...and forever...If He did it before....He shall do it again!  God is serious about His Commandments!

Dearest MarJay HizWay, Mike n Laura, Lara Leger, Debbie~ I think I am getting a fairly good understanding of the Sabbath Day, but, I am wondering too, if anyone on MyChurch is actually keeping the Sabbath Day according to the original way it was commanded.  I am doing research even now as we discuss this. I would like to know what it really involves to keep the Sabbath to the letter. Will we die in the Judgment if we don't keep it to the letter of what Our Lord God of Hosts Commanded?

The requirement to keep the Sabbath is part of the "dispensation of death" that Paul wrote about. But as for me, I will stick with the "dispensation of the Spirit" for "where the Lord is, there is FREEDOM!!"

Again, abolished the law of animal sacrifice because HE became our sacrifice......

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Marjay and everyone:

"Again, abolished the law of animal sacrifice because HE became our sacrifice......"

that is not what 2 Corinthians 3 says.  It specifically calls the commandments that are written on stone the ministry of death and the ministry of condemnation. The Ten Commandements are the only part of the Law that was written on stone; not the ceremonial or sacrificial law.  But the point really is: the Ten Commandments are a part of a convenant, they are not standalone rules that were given to gentiles; nor are they given as a set of rules for Christians to live by.

We have been given a new nature that wants to do everything that the law ever demanded; that nature is of the spirit and not of the letter.  It is a New Covenant and and New Creation, just as 2 Corinthians 3 and Galations say.

I understand that this is actually a stumbling block for you because I have noticed that you are really into the Old Covenant and specifically the moral law.  This is where most of us are, it is a mixture of the two convenants!  It is the very reason that Galations was in fact written.  If you think that you will be justified before God becuase of what you are doing "keep Saturday as the Sabboth" then you have fallen from grace, you have been severed from Christ and you are reqired to keep the whole law.

The Law was a shadow of the good things to come; it is the tutor that leads us to Christ; it was at the mount of transfiguration in the person of Moses bearing witness that God was well pleased with Christ.  The righteousness we have, we have as a gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ; it is based upon what He did not on what we do.  Our righteousness, no matter how good it may be, is a minsteral cloth Paul said.  The goal of our life is to attain to the righteousness that comes through faith in Jesus Christ and not through the law.

Marjay, it is very intersting to me that you even quoted Ephesians 2:15 but you still insist that walking by the spirit is the keeping of rules.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace.

The law of commandmenst has been "abolished" because Christ himself is it's fulfillment!  He is the only one who will ever "keep" the law.  He still does, but He does it by living his life (which the law and prophets testified as to being righteous at the mount of transfiguration) through us.  It is not rules but peace.  Some have peace to observe a given day to honor the Lord and others obsever everyday to honor the Lord; each man must be fully convienced in their own mind.  That is exactly what Paul said in Romans 14.

Romans 14:5-12
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Romans 14 goes on to say that it is about faith not about rules:

Romans 14:22-23
The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

So, Marjay you better be keeping the Sabbath because that what you believe in your heart that you have to do.  But as soon as you try to put that on other Christians as a law then you have crossed the line and are in danger of bring people into the condemnation spoken to in Galatians.

Ken, my heart goes out to you because you, but your just going to have to learn to let the scriptures speak to you and believe what they are actually saying and not what folks who are zealous for the elementary principle of the world (e.g. rules and law) are saying!  Otherwise you're going to keep getting in this state of fear and confusion.

Hebrews couldn't be clearer that the Sabbath represents "the rest of God" and, if you care to receive it: that is Christ himself.

So if you're going to fear something, don't fear the people who want to bring you into bondage to rules; fear not holding fast to Christ!

The Sabbath represents the rest of God found in Christ where we cease from our own labors (striving to perfect our flesh by keeping the Ten Commandments and all the other rules of evangelical Christianity) and trust Christ to live his pure life through us.  That is not a rule keeping but faith in a person.

You can give an orange tree the complete list of rules it needs to be an apple tree but it will always fail.  Christians who believe that "they" must conform themselves into the image of Jesus by perfecting their flesh will always fail and fall short of the law and rules they are so zealous for because it is flesh trying to perfect flesh.

We were so bad and worthless that God had to put is "in Christ" and crucify us with Christ [Romans 6].  Flesh cannot be perfected it is under a sentence of death, and in fact it has already been carried out in Christ.  Christians who are trying to "crucify themselves" still believe that "they" have to do something about the flesh, that they weren't really crucified with Christ, and therefore fall into the trap of trying to live up to rules and the Ten Commandments.  The law is the power of sin and therefore such a person will find themselves sinning over and over because they are not depending upon what God has done in Christ; but are depending upon what "they" are doing for Christ.

It all has the appearance of wisdom (as Colossians says) but has absolutely no value in overcoming fleshly indulgence.  There are multitudes of Christians who are basically perishing in the wilderness just like it says in Hebrews; because they are trusting in rules and not in Christ who is our life.

Blessings!
Craig

KNOW ASK URSELF ...WHAT LAW IS WE TALKING ABOUT ???

READ GALATIANS.  It says it all. Emphasis on Chapter 2,  3 and 4.

Just wanted to add this & then I'm done, b/c I know you aren't here to learn anything, Nate, but to try to prove your doctrine.  

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."  -Galatians  2:21 AKJV

  So did Christ die in vain?  

  "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?  Are ye so foolish?  having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"  -Galatians3:2&3  AKJV

  We are saved by grace, through faith, a free gift of God, and not by works, lest any man should boast.  So we start doing this, this and this in our flesh to make it to heaven....in our flesh.  If we are the ones cleaning ourselves up, then how does God get any glory from it?  

  It all began with Abraham....who was NOT under the Law:

 
  "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.  Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.   And the Scripture, forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, sainging, In thee shall all nations be blessed.  So then they that be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."  -Galatians 3:6-9

 So we are justified by faith, not by the Law.

  "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:  for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:  for The just shall live by faith.  And the law is not of faith:  but the man that doeth them shall live in them.  Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"  Galatians 3:10-13

  No thanks.  I don't want the curse of the law.  I'm not under the curse of the Law but under grace.  

  OK, now watch this one carefully:

  "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."  v14

  Alright, now pay even more attention b/c this is crucial:

  "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." v15&16

  Here's the clencher:

  "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of no effect.  For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave Abraham by promise"  -V 17&18

  The promise comes through Abraham.  God made that covenant with Abraham long before the Law came in, and the promise was not of the law, but came through Jesus Christ, when He began the New Covenant.  The just shall live by faith. 

  So again, no, I'm not under the law. I am the child of promise through Abraham--also wasn't under the law.

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Ken, if you TRY to keep the Sabbath, then you will die.

Because if you think that keeping the Sabbath will get you closer to the Lord, then you will in turn HAVE to keep all the rest of them.

And DON'T you DARE fail one of them.

When Christ died on the cross, He forgave ALL sin.

MarJay HizWay,

to keep the 10 is not possible, because remember Christ sees not just the physical, but the intent.

By that I mean, for example, we are told not to have adultery, but Christ said that to even look at a woman with lust in the heart was the same as adultery.

So if you try to follow all 10, but fail in even one, according to the Law, you are guilty of ALL.

When Christ died on the cross, He died for ALL sin. Past, present and future, or else He would have to keep dieing on the cross over and over.

His grace is that we have been forgiven, the Holy Spirit will help guide us, and give us power to live as He would have us live.

We have been set free from ALL sin.

But  to answer your question about the entire sabbath...

If you think you should keep the Sabbath, here are your requirments:

No Carrying, Burning, . Extinguishing. Finishing . Writing . Erasing
. Cooking . Washing . Sewing . Tearing. Knotting. Untying. Shaping
. Plowing. Planting. Reaping. Harvesting. Threshing. Winnowing
. Selecting. Sifting. Grinding. Kneading. Combing. Spinning. Dyeing
. Chain-stitching. Warping. Weaving. Unraveling. Building. Demolishing
. Trapping. Shearing. Slaughtering. Skinning. Tanning. Smoothing. Marking

  If you want to be really orthodox, then you may not turn on nor turn off ANY electrical devise, for this falls under extinguishing and burning.

So if you try to follow the sabbath, then this is ALL required.

Oh, also don't forget, if you travel more than a mile, then you have violated the Sabbath, and are to be stoned to death.

So you go and keep the Sabbath, but as stated before, if you do, you will HAVE to follow all 10, Because if you base your faith on the Law, then there is no grace for you.

As to following the rest of the Law....

You may NOT have any type of picture, or figurine of ANYTHING,

You may NOT spend anymore time doing ANYTHING that takes up more time than you spend with the LORD,

Do NOT use His name in anyway that is wrongful.

Do NOT dishonor your parents in ANY WAY.

Do NOT hate your neighbor, for this is murder, don't even call him a fool.

Do NOT look on a woman with lust in your heart (EVER), this is adultery

Do NOT EVER take anything that does not belong to you.

Do NOT EVER tell a falsehood against your neighbor

 Do NOT want something your neighbor has, this is the same as coveting

 And don't forget who Christ said your neighbor was!

And if you have fulfilled all of these, then go and sell ALL that you have and give it to the poor.  Go to the missions field.

Ken you are not going to find the answer through intellectual debate.  The scriptures have been presented.  It's not like some Bibles have Romans 6-8, Galatians, Colossians, 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, and Hebrews and some don't.  Ken you're just going through what every Christian does.  We were all born the center of the universe in our own minds and so we all tend to turn to our self to try and figure everything out--that's leaning on our own understanding.

Most likely you came to the Lord through men who spoke the Good News to you and you had a real born-again experience with Jesus.  At that point you figured that every word they have to say is the absolute truth...that's where the trouble always starts.  The common Good News of modern Christianity is a mixture of law and grace, the flesh (self-dependence) and spirit (dependence upon Christ).

There isn't a single person in this threat, or on this site that is perfect in everything that they say.  There is only One who knows us completely and fully as we will someday know him.  There is only one thing that divides between flesh and spirit, and that is the Logos--written word.  Until a believer really has the New Testament down so that they are actually letting it speak to them they can only get wrapped around an axle when getting immersed in the Old Covenant writings.

The folks on this site that are really into Judaism, that are zealous for the Law, will not let the New Testament or anything it says get in the way of their doctrine.  So we have a choice to make; we can struggle and strive trying to figure out the truth, or we can turn our back on the problem and turn to God our Father through Jesus Christ and ask him to open the eyes of our understanding to all the mysteries of God that are hidden in Christ.  You're just going to have to hear from the Lord to get peace in this circumstance.  The more you lean on your own intellectual ability and the various debates that might come forth the worse it will actually get for you because we are to be lead into the truth by the Holy Spirit.

The problem is, of course, every single person on this site will all say that "they" are being lead by the Holy Spirit and what they have to say is from him.  Well, that's where the actual New Testament scriptures come into play.  Only they divide between flesh and spirit; the real Holy Spirit will make those scriptures come alive to you (rhema: spoken word) and then you'll know who is denying them and who isn't; who is walking in the flesh and who isn't.

The scriptures speak for themselves, but they don't speak in isolation.  They are consistent about what they say about the ministry of death and the ministry of the spirit.  If you had really been paying attention to them then this whole thread would have ended when Mike quoted 2 Corinthians 3 and you would have read that chapter and would have had your eyes opened to what is being said.  But you are not turning to the Lord and counting on him; you are turning to all of us and counting on us.  Until you get that straight you’re going to keep finding yourself in this pit every time you come across some Old Covenant verse that wasn't even written to us.  You’ll keep turning to men instead of the Lord himself.

Dear brother, you need to slap yourself in the head and come to your senses.  We are not the answer, He is the answer.  We cannot save you from yourself; heck, we can't even save ourselves from our self!  This is a community of over 250k people and every wind of doctrine that exists is espoused here. If you don't get tight with the Lord you're not going to make it brother.  Not because you don't keep the "right" rules, but because you will be deceived into leaning on your own understanding and the opinion of us men.

I don't know you, but I've been doing this Internet thing for almost 20 years; and I've seen lots of people who like to troll just for fun.  Just pick a controversial topic and throw some position concerning it into a group of "religious Christians" and then watch the carnage. I have no idea if that is what you are doing or if you are genuinely confused; this isn't a judgment concerning you.  But at the same time what the heck are you doing?  Do you think you'll get anyplace just ignoring the scriptures?  Mike gave you the answer and you appeared to have ignored it.  You keep crying out for folks to give you "the" answer but if they'll be honest there isn’t one who won't admit that "the" answer is a Person and not some doctrine or interpretation of our favorite scriptures.

IF you want the truth then turn to Him, not to people who are obviously acting exactly like the Corinthians: "I'm of Paul, I'm of Peter, I'm of Jesus," etc.  The bottom line is, if you won't listen to the scriptures then you will be deceived and will end up in one of these weird combinations of the Old and New, the flesh and spirit.

All these guys have the same Bible but end up with a multitude of interpretations about what the Sabbath is and what it isn't; when Jesus was raised from the dead--and the scriptures say the 1st day of the week, which is Sunday--and every other strange doctrine that comes from picking and choosing scriptures from the Bible.

Forget about the Sabbath "topic" and try reading Galatians, Colossians, Ephesians, etc. all the way through, over and over again; just let them say what they say in their entire context and you'll avoid a ton of foolishness and confusion.  If you will not trust the Living God who saved you to bring you into an understanding of his own word, then you will be given to your own devices until you choose to honor God and his logos [written word].

That's all I'm going to say.  If you won't listen to the scriptures then you aren't going to listen to any of us.  You're just going to be tormented and anguished until you turn away from all of us and trust the Lord to lead you into the truth.

Sincerely,
Craig

Because I am seriously questioning the doctrine of seventh day worship, I have read and studied every single word that has been written in the above comments. I do all in my power to keep the other 10 Commandments and so I truly wondered if I should do the same with the seventh day worship commandment. Now I understand that it does not mean to worship, or, go to Church. It means to rest.
When it is Saturday here in the Eastern Standard Time Zones, it is not Saturday in other time zones. It certainly is not Saturday in other countries on the same day it is Saturday where I live. Does anyone know if there is a calendar that goes back to the day of Moses so that we can all rest on the same Saturday? I know we don't have to all rest on the same day, but, for now, does anybody know who is resting on the correct Sabbath Day? I am free in Christ Jesus and I am not under the Old Covenant, but, I still think it's a good idea to rest, at least one 'good rest', at least once a week. Yet, Yet, Yet, what my original question was: "Is there anyone on MyChurch.Org who can give the Testimony that she, or, he keeps the Sabbath according to the Old Testament Command?"
Then I wanted to know (from those who believe in Saturday worship) if everybody who does not go to Church on Saturday automatically dies and/or goes to Hell. The reference Scriptures say they will be stoned to death, or, be put to death someway for not going to Church, or, resting on Saturday.

WE HAVE TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH FOR EVER. perpetual means forever.If this sabbath was not to be kept, THEN the scriptures is NO GOOD. But thats not the case.

Brother Nate

I was showing that if someone thinks we must follow the Law, then it must ALL be followed, including the Sabbath, in it's entirety.

So yes, if you desire to follow the Sabbath, you must walk (not any further than about 1 mile), for starting the car is forbidden, and you may NOT carry your Bible. You may not comb your hair, you can use a doft brush, you may NOT use makeup.

As to using discretion, if you desire to be under Law, there is NO discretion, you either follow it ALL or not.

We are under grace, all sin is forgiven!

Dear Forgiven,

Most of us have been there and wear that T-Shirt.  The bottom line is still the same.  The words tells us that if we confess our sins that God is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanses us of ALL unrighteousness!  [1 John 1:9].  I don't know how many years I spent reading that verse and then making the choice to believe my feelings and my conscience [called in Hebrews: an evil conscience] over the living word of the Living God!  And I remained in that pit until I humbled myself and chose to believe God and his word over my feelings and defiled conscience.

The blood is for God not for us.  The blood was put on the outside of the door so the messenger of death would Passover.  The High Priest took the blood into the Holiest place once a year...the people didn't see the blood, God did.  And now Jesus has taken his own blood to a heavenly alter and there is has been poured out on the mercy seat of the Living God.  We cannot see that blood for that blood is for God not for us.

We have to learn to place the value that God places in that sacrifice.  We stumble because we place more value in our feelings, our understanding, than we do in what Father tells us in his word...and we pay the price!  It is not God's fault!!!  That is a lesson of Job also.  We need to justify God and not ourselves!

Thanks for the reminder Forgiven!  I too am thankful to have been delivered from myself in that area!!!

Blessings!
Craig

"use discretion and discernment"

Could that be a grey area???

When the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He changes our desires.

He gives us a new mind, a new heart.

He empowers us to live godly lives, to love the Lord above all else, to love our neighbors, to forgive others.

But when we "try" to live this godly life on our own, it becomes legalistic, it becomes a religion.

Does He want us to rest, of course, but not to put the day of rest above Him.

He wants us to worship Him, not the law about Him.

The Holy Spirit will give me the power to love, not murder (hate)

When we judge others for not being at the same level of walk with Christ as we are damages our witness. 

There is no one that can truthfully say they follow all the Law. If you try and break just one, then you have broken all 10.

He will put His desires in our hearts, because that is where we meet Him!

Will I sin? Am I human? Yes to both.

Do I choose to sin? Am I perfect? No to both.

It is when we choose to jump back into the devils arms and desire the world, that we remove ourselves from the Lord.

The Good News is so simple that we have to put our own rules to it.

Amen, Earthen Vessel! Also, thank you so much for sharing part of your story. It certainly is a blessing to me and I am sure, many others.

catherine

For this Family of Faith, Our Hearts Are Being Knit Together In Love.  People on the outside of The Family of Faith seem to actually hate The Children of God in Christ Jesus.  There are so many of them who would hurt us, and could care less after they had done so.  The Holy Scriptures say: 
Proverbs 11:14
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
Proverbs 15:22
Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.

The implied point here is 'Wise Counsel' (agree?)  I have prayed and sought the leading of The Holy Spirit.  I have believed that wise counselors would respond to this blog.  I have peace in these things that I now believe:  1.  Sabbath means Rest.  2.  Sabbath does not mean going to Church, or, Worship.  3.  We don't really know when the Sabbath day is from  the time of the giving of the Law by Moses.  4.  James 2:10
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."  4a.  Outside of the Grace of Christ Jesus, we would all have to be stoned to death for transgressing the Law.  5.  There is not one person, so far, on MyChurch, who is willing to say that they keep the Sabbath in every point, according to the Law of Moses.  6.  Some of the people who have contacted me privately, who say we must go to church on Saturday, also have told me that Jesus  Christ is a created being, Michael, The Archangel.  I believe Michael, The Archangel is a distinct personage from God The Father, God The Son, and, God The Holy Ghost.  Christ Jesus Is, and, always has been The Lord God of Hosts.  Christ Jesus is not Michael, The ArchAngel.
Someone, about three comments up, asked if using 'discernment and discression' is a grey area.  I think it is.  I also believe there is safety in a multitude of Counselors.  (wise ones).  
Our Savior Jesus died on Calvary's Cross for all of us who could not possibly keep the whole law.  Grace is unmerited favor.  He has not only kept all of us from being stoned to death, He has kept all of us from burning in everlasting Hell, Fire, and Brimstone.  Thank You Jesus!  Thank You MyChurch Family.