[star!]

If we will only listen to the Holy Spirit and then follow and obey His instructions and warnings, we will experience God's exceedingly great blessings and practical help.  "It is the Father's good pleasure to give to you the kingdom," (the rule or kingship of the Holy Spirit in your earthly life).  Only question is will we receive and obey God the Holy Spirt or will we "quench" Him and/or "grieve" Him.  The choice is ours.

[star!]

Another inspired blog and the answer to your question of course is 'no'

In His love,

PM

[star!]

My gift from God of The Holy Spirit came across loud and clear
whispering into me.  This journey is the first time I really listened
in a long long time.  I missed out on so much but I'm so glad it's
The Awesome God we serve that Loves Unconditionally. 
That Gift.....PRICELESS.

Very well put, brother Herman. We are blessed together! :-)

Terry, amen, and I feel priceless only begins to describe the awesome wonder of it! 

Leigh, I sense the Holy Spirit communicating w/my heart and mind as I read scripture, pray, worship, hear the pastor's message (sometimes)....but never when I'm dreaming. That certainly isn't to say it can't happen, just haven't had it happen to me. :-)

Thank you all for reading and encouraging me w/your stars. I'm blessed that we can all celebrate this most wonderful Gift together!

[star!]

Thank you Mike -

Mike,

Most Protestants assume something that is not really supported by the scriptures.  You stated it like this:

"Since every believer receives the Spirit when they trust Christ for salvation, why does Jesus tell us to ask for what we already have?"

Not "every believer" in the book of Acts received the Holy Spirit.

In this exchange, the Apostle Paul encountered "certain disciples" who had not received the Holy Spirit.  What was the first question this apostle of God asked these believers?  "Unto what then were ye baptized?"

Does the bible support the doctrine of "baptism to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"?  I think it does.

The first century apostles seemed to agree on this doctrine that the Holy Spirit is received when a believer is baptized and not before.  Also, notice that in Acts 2:39 (above) that this is a "promise".

We are righteous when we believe the promise of God.  God is glorified when our opinion matches His.  In fact, the first definition of the Greek word for "glory" means, "The view, opinion, and judgment of God".

In the verse you quoted above, Jesus said:

This verse is talking about family.  Only the sons and daughters of God are entitled to His blessings.

Paul say, in verse 27, "as many of you as".  That means, "not more and not less".  If someone has not been baptized into Christ, they have not put on Christ.  If we have put on Christ in baptism then we belong to Him.  Verse 27 says that only those who belong to Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.  Verse 14 makes it clear that at least one of these promises is the Holy Spirit.

When we were baptized into Christ we were submitting to the operation of God. 

Baptism is faith - faith in the operation of God to reanimate our mortal bodies by His Spirit.  Those who have not been "buried with Him in baptism" have never been reanimated - they have never received the Spirit of God.  They are still in the flesh.

Baptism (literally immersion) therefore, symbolizes a burial.  Any ritual that does not symbolize a burial is not baptism (immersion).  Don't forget, the "certain disciples" in Acts 19 were immersed in water but they had not received the Holy Spirit.  Why?  Because they were baptized unto John's baptism and not by the authority of Jesus (i.e. in the name of).  Their immersion was not a representation of the burial of Jesus because John's baptism did not symbolize Christ's burial (neither could it because John died before Jesus).

Therefore, to assume that "every believer receives the Spirit when they trust Christ for salvation" is to go slightly beyond what is written.  Every believer who has been baptized into Christ has, according to the scriptures, received the Holy Spirit.

Rob

But what about Cornelius and his household?  This is an example of a person receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit without having been baptized in water.

There are a couple ways to approach this. The New Testament shows us a couple ways to receive the Holy Spirit. 

The first way is what we have come to call, "the baptism in the Holy Spirit".  When one is baptized in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is said to "come upon" or "fall upon" the person(s).  This is a visible manifestation that can be detected by observation.

The second way is what happens when one receives the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit.  This form is not directly observable although it is as real as the the first kind.

It would not be contrary to the word of God to say that a person who has received the baptism in the Holy Spirit has not necessarily received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  In fact, we find passages that can bear this out.

Some have suggested that Peter baptized these people in water but it wasn't necessary due to the fact that they had already received the Holy Spirit.  I have to resist that logic for the following reason.  We would have to find other examples in the scriptures where apostles engaged in unnecessary rituals where such practice is not directly condemned (for example: circumcision and dietary restrictions).  We have to assume that this was a necessary step since it was not elsewhere condemned.  The silence of the scriptures is itself a testimony.

In this example, we find that Paul baptized them "in the name of the Lord Jesus".  According to the direct teaching we receive in the previous chapters of Acts, we know that this baptism is in water (Acts 8 and 10) for the remission of sins and to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).  Cornelius and his household received the baptism in the Holy Spirit prior to their baptism in the name of Jesus (see Acts 10:48 (above)).  The sequence is in reverse.

Can a person who has only received the baptism in the Holy Spirit be saved?  No.  The baptism in the Holy Spirit is an exterior anointing of the Holy Spirit.  This is separate and distinct from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

As I read the New Testament, I find that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the form of the Holy Spirit that saves.

This single verse of scripture is rich in the doctrine of Christ.  We are "in the Spirit" if the Spirit of God dwells in us.  Walking in the Spirit is the key to victory over sin (see Gal. 5:16ff).  The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God are one in the same thing.  (Take THAT Jehovah's Witnesses).  The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the mark of ownership on all those who have received it.

The scriptures do not come out and say that there are two forms of receiving the Holy Spirit but it documents both kinds.  It is up to the reader to distinguish between the two.  There has been much confusion in the denominational world because such a distinction has not been made.  God is not the author of confusion but of peace.  Combining these two forms tends toward confusion, while separating them tends toward understanding.

Combining the two forms renders the ritual of baptism almost completely useless.  If one can receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by any other means then baptism is simply an "also ran".  The bible does NOT support such doctrine.  The bible says of baptism that it is a reenactment of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.  It is a union of ourselves with Him (see Romans 6).  The bible says that "baptism doth also now save us" (1 Pet. 3:21).  If baptism were unnecessary or superfluous then such a statement would be nigh unto blaspheme.   But if we understand the mechanics of baptism then such a doctrine makes total sense.

The choice is ours - to believe or to remain in unbelief.  We can take a traditional approach to the scriptures and be left scratching our heads or we can adopt a reasonable approach.  If my theology is inconsistent with the scriptures then I need to repent.  When my view and opinion agrees with the view and opinion of God then He is glorified in my life.  The scriptures are the revealed view, opinion, and judgment of God and they do not have to be confusing if we don't want them to be.

I may get around to addressing one or two of your points bro. But I just don't have time to enter into a full dialogue, given the length of your posts. Besides, these posts of epic length really don't facilitate conversation very well at all. They're a bit one-sided, like a sermon or a speech.

Alright, Mike.  I've started a new blog that discusses the Holy Spirit.  I've divided it up into several chapters because I'm committed to making it brief enough to be read in one sitting.

This is a "home spun" theology that is based on the bible.  I borrow heavily from the doctrine of the mainstream church of Christ because I find her doctrine to be the closest to the scriptures.  That being said, however, her implementation of this doctrine leaves much to be desired.

Anyway, here's where it starts: The Gift of the Holy Ghost