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| Acts 2 - Dangerous to Counterfeit Experiences |
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2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. A dangerous chapter for those who dare to read and compare. This true Pentecostal experience included tongues that were known languages, fire that was seen and wind that was real. |
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| To add a comment to "Acts 2 - Dangerous to Counterfeit Experiences" |
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| October 15, 2009 |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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There were many nations/languages represented on that day. Then, there were the few (12) original Apostles of Christ. The few Apostles did not go to each 'foreigner' and speak to them individually in their native tongue. There was a supernatural understanding of the tongues the Apostles uttered. The Apostles did not speak in a known language. They spoke in tongues. The Holy Scriptures Cannot be broken which state that no man understands tongues. Tongues must be first intrepreted for us by God alone (only). The person bringing a message in tongues does not know what the Holy Spirit is having him say. He is speaking mysteries. Then God, alone, gives the interpretation to a Human {1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries}. If the Apostles were speaking in a known language it would not have been tongues. It would have been a miracle, yes, supernatural, yes, but not tongues. The Holy Scriptures state here that they spoke in tongues. The proof of whether-or-not tongues are being spoken is this: If a Human understands the utterances without God giving the interpretation, then, they are not tongues. People without the gift of tongues often feel inferior and try to give 'scientific' explanations for them. These people should not feel inferior, they are not, it is only that God does not want them to have this particular gift yet. |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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| [star!] |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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Hmmm. Bro Ken, the verse you quoted specifies an "unknown tongue", not simply a "tongue". This would clearly imply that there exist "known tongues" too! This might explain how "tongues" might be a sign for unbelievers. (1 Cor 22) :-) |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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Hi Mike! I certainly agree with you. Emphatically. I hoped to make a distinction...you did make the distinction. There is a very dangerous world famous 'Evangelist' who blasphemes the Holy Spirit and has taught multiplied millions that the gift of tongues is demonic. I, on the other hand, want people everywhere to do as the Apostle Paul admonished. The Apostle Paul admonished to 'seek after the best gifts' and to 'not forbid to speak with tongues'. |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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Mike, I should also say.......the language the Apostles spoke in Acts II was not known to the Apostle. The miraculous/supernatural was that God did something that allowed the foreigners to hear a message in their own language. If I know three languages I learned at school and speak to someone in one of these languages (their native language), then I am not operating in the supernatural gift of tongues. I am then simply speaking to them in the natural, within a language we both know. Do you agree? As you know, I am coachable and teachable...willing to learn. ken |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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| Ken, that's my understanding too. :-D |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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| I think that there is a balance. There are tongues that come from demons and there are tongues that come from God. In my experience, both of these are rare. There is also a more prevalent third category of tongues that is entirely human and emotionally based. There are dozens and dozens of non-Christian tribes from the Inuit to Yogis who practice this kind of tongues that involves falling over backwards, emotional experiences and no interpreter. These "unknown tongues" are too similar to Pentecostal experiences to dismiss easily.My belief and experience in Pentecostal churches has been that there are occasionally genuine tongues to be found, but that the vast majority of the time it is more similar to Kundalini Yoga than that described in either Acts or Corinthians. The fruit of Pentecostal tongues has sometimes been good, but most of my experience has involved people in a competitive, self-promoting spirit who try to force tongues on others and who put down as second-class those who have had or desire no such experience. |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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| [star!] |
It's the question I made some of the leaders from my old church get frustrated with me, over. They would speak of the baptism of the Holy Ghost as getting your prayer language or tongues of angels, and I would ask them, if that's the case, how can that be when the book of Acts experience was tongues of men, not angels? I know both exist b/c Paul makes the distinction, but it doesn't jive with the doctrine. I believe there is such an experience as a constant infilling, but it isn't always "tongues" that is the evidence (boldness and prophesy are mentioned as evidence too). So that's my two cent's worth. I just wish I could get a straight answer out of somebody. lol |
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| October 20, 2009 |
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| Lara, like you, I think that too much is made of such physical phenomena. It distracts from what ought to be our focus, Christ. |
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| October 21, 2009 |
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I Corinthians 13:1 * Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
I Corinthians 13:8 * ...whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (Tongues have not ceased...Knowledge has not vanished away).
I Corinthians 12:31 * But covet earnestly the best gifts:..I Corinthians 14:39 * ...and forbid not to speak with tongues. {Children of Disobedience do not desire the gift of tongues...tongues is one of the best gifts. Which gift of the Holy Spirit is not on the list of the best gifts?} God told us to do something..."Covet earnestly the best gifts".
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| October 22, 2009 |
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| I have not argued that tongues have disappeared, but that they are abused. The word "though" in 1 Cor 13:1 is a rhetorical word. It does not say definitively that we will speak with the tongues of angels, but implies if we could. In fact the only place that I know of in the Bible where angelic language is described in detail, is it sounded like thunder. Now if you speak like thunder, then I might believe you speak in angels tongues.I do not forbid speaking in tongues, even the fake ones. Also, the context of 1 Cor 12 does not show tongues to be among the best gifts, but the least. I am amazed that Pentecostal churches are so long on tongues and so short on wisdom, the gift at the topic of the list. I desire the greater gifts, and tongues is not at the top of the list in this chapter at all, but at the end. |
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| October 24, 2009 |
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| Could it be that The Lord God of Hosts is telling us: "Do Not Desire The Gift of Tongues"? "Do Not Desire One of My Gifts"? |
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| October 25, 2009 |
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| Isn't it funny how some Christians say that we ought to make foreigners speak English, yet the Bible says not to forbid tongues, but we say that means babbling and not a known language, yet the Bible does not say that at all, but leaves the question open to allowing even multicultural interpretations. So the question here is what kind of tongues? I frankly don't desire any fake gift and I told God that. I prayed that if he wants me to have a genuine gift of a language that I do not know, that he give it to me, I already speak a couple of foreign languages, but I really desire the best gifts more than the least. I desire wisdom, knowledge, faith. How often do Pentecostals put others down who have knowledge, saying things like: knowledge is not important, but being spirit filled is. By that they mean speaking in tongues. But that contradicts the Bible, because knowledge is also a gift. So what do I really think? I am not trying to put anyone down, but to help us all realize that we are in the same boat. Tongues are not a sign of superiority. Much of what we think is a better brand of Christianity is nothing but a vain badge of imaginary superiority. We are all equals before God, charismatics and non-charismatics alike. |
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| November 01, 2009 |
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| Does anyone know when someone is babbling and not genuinely utilizing/speaking using the gift of tongues? Please accept my appreciation to anyone who can help me with this. |
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| November 01, 2009 |
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| I don't think that we always HAVE to know. Sometimes it is obvious. For instance, a Greek friend of mine was a guest at a church where a woman suddenly started speaking in tongues. My friend's neighbor could not discern that it was evil, and assumed enthusiastically that she was filled with the Holy Spirit. Even the pastor exclaimed that aloud. My friend quietly said to his neighbor that no, she was speaking his language, Greek, and that she was using some of the most filthy words in that language. In that case, my friend found it easy to discern that this was not of God.Another friend of mine quite openly told me that his "experience" was not genuine, and that he had faked it just to "fit in" under peer pressure. Yet another friend tells me of a time when a woman suddenly spoke, and the lady next to her said that she was speaking Italian, and that the tongues-speaking woman had not learned Italian. I would say that was genuine. At other times, in Pentecostal circles, I have noticed a spirit of competition among people, each seeming to want to out-do the other, sort of a game of spiritual one-up-manship. I could not swear that it was fake, but in my spirit I discerned that it was so. In my experience, I believe that it is still sincere in most cases, but that people are sincerely self-deceived.How can this happen? I believe that it is an exercise in circular reasoning. Tongues is seen as "the" evidence of being filled, even though the Bible actually does not say that. People want to be filled, so they wind themselves up into a natural state which is exploited, not just by Christians, but also by many other religions around the world. Because they have this experience, they believe it must be biblical tongues or at least an "unknown" tongue, even though there is no evidence for it. By the way "unknown" in context can also imply a local language that not everyone speaks. So the whole idea is an existential house of cards.Tongues is a very divisive topic, and because it is so, I find that the fruits of it are in too many cases are not good. In one Pentecostal church I attended people were coerced into tongues, fostering a fake experience. In most Pentecostal circles non-tongues speakers are seen as unfilled, and in extreme churches as unsaved. In many non-Pentecostal but charismatic circles, tongues is not a forced issue and non-tongues speakers are not looked upon as inferior or somehow unfilled. That is a much healthier approach. |
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| November 01, 2009 |
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| Thank you Ken for the encouragement. You have blessed me. |
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| November 01, 2009 |
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| Thank You Grant. I just decided to check back, but had no idea I would receive a response so soon. God Bless You and I Thank You. I Also read from Your http://igspong.blogspot.com/ Web Site. You have a True Ministry from Christ Jesus, there is no doubt in my mind. Thank You for this clarification. |
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| November 02, 2009 |
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| I have read in the Bible that speaking in tongues is a rare gift - leading me to believe that many are "faking it". And I believe there's a verse that says something to the effect that if no one can interpret what you've said it's of no value - or something like that. I will have to find where I saw this. But Ian, what you've said sounds correct to me. |
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| November 02, 2009 |
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| Yes, this is a guideline broken in many churches. It is found in 1 Corinthians 14:28 (New American Standard Bible) "but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God." |
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| November 03, 2009 |
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I believen in the gift of tongues. My husband has that gift, I don't, but I know it;s real because I know my husband. I've heard him praying by himself in tongues, and I've heard him pray in church in tongues, but in church, there should always be an interpreter, like you said. I also believe certain people fake it. I know of a lady who said she faked things in church, to me this is dangerous.
Anyway, I know there is a scripture that says something about if I pray in tongues and have not love, it means nothing. |
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| November 03, 2009 |
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| Excellent comment Crystal. |
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