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| Fighting With Church People! |
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4:1 Where do you think all these appalling wars and quarrels come from? Do you think they just happen? Think again. They come about because you want your own way, and fight for it deep inside yourselves. You lust for what you don't have and are willing to kill to get it. You want what isn't yours and will risk violence to get your hands on it. (The Message) One of the most grievous issues a pastor has to deal with is when his sheep don't get along. Something is inherently wrong when two believers or more can not come together in unity. This usually means one of three things. Either one is right and the other is wrong, or they are both wrong, or their is a misunderstanding. Now we all know, or should know by now that Christians don't always act or behave like good Christians should. This is a normal behavior, but really our behavior as Christians should be abnormal, meaning that our words need to be seasoned with grace. Our actions should be motivated by compassion. Our thoughts need to be pure. Our attitude needs to be one of submission. Herein lies the rub as Shakespeare would say. What we should do and what we actually, do are two differently things entirely. We all know we should be better than we are but the reality is we don't always attain to those lofty standards. So how do we solve this problem when two Christians bicker? How does a pastor protect the sheep from one another? Why do we as church people insist on hurting one another? Why do we always have to get our way? Sometimes, yes, it seems like some people give and give and give while others take and take and take and finally the one that has given gets fed up and lashes out at the taker. But why? Was not the one that was giving indeed giving out of a heart of love, or were they giving to get something in return? Often times it becomes apparent in our thinking that if "I don't stand up for myself" people are going to walk all over me. Why does the taker seem entitled to take? All of these things are very delicate issues as one sheep needs comforting while another needs a butt kicking. Sometimes, they are both wrong and both get wounded in the fight and they not only need a healing but they need a stern butt kicking as well. Ughh! God give us wisdom! Truthfully, it takes two people to fight. However, it only takes one to break a relationship and one to offend, bite and hurt the other. Each one of then are accountable for our own actions. Each one of us, must be swift to hear, slow to speak and slow to wrath. We all must be kind one to another tender-hearted forgiving one another. Each one of us needs to let our moderation be known to all men. Each one of us must do all things without disputing, grumbling, or complaining. So, you may say: "Pastor Todd, I do all those things but it still hurts" good there is two things that you lack still. 1. Meekness (power under control) To be able to turn the other cheek requires meekness. To go the extra mile requires meekness, to say, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" requires meekness. 2. The other thing that is necessary is that one of the two that are caught in the conflict has to be dead. What? Yup, one of them has to be dead. Dead to self that is. In other words, dead to self means that you have voluntarily willingly given up your rights for justice and equity and fairness. You forfeit your right to be hurt, to be offended, to be wounded. The Lord showed me this one time: When I was hurt by someone in ministry it was if I heard Him say to me. "Todd, You can't offend a dead person." That made so much sense to me. If I were standing over a corpse and began to revile and insult and accuse that corpse that corpse would just lay there. It would have no effect on that corpse because the person was / is dead. When we crucify our self we put to death all those selfish desires, needs, and wants and we allow Christ to live through us. That is what the Apostle Paul was saying when he said, "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live. Yet not I but Christ lives in me, and the life that I live now in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me." We put to death our selfish rights and desires by faith and when we do that we make Christ alive in us. He then is able to live through us and be seen in us. Truthfully, I say to you, your response to conflict is a measure of your own spirituality or lack of it. So the next time you are tempted to fight remember, you need to practice meekness and most of all crucify that old sinful self and let the life and love of God be made alive in you! You can do it! And when you do it, you will find that church will be a whole lot more fun and enjoyable! |
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| To add a comment to "Fighting With Church People!" |
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| October 15, 2009 |
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[star!] | "You can't offend a dead person"--that's one of the greatest things I've ever heard! We humans are an egotistical bunch; and you pastors who have to deal with us have my utmost admiration and gratitude. |
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| October 15, 2009 |
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| Thanks for reading Beverly, and I can't take credit for that! That I know came from the Lord! Well, I am not looking for any sympathy, just wisdom! LOL I love my people and I am blessed God has entrusted them to my care. Over time the Spirit will make some inroads and it'll get better and a whole lot more fun! |
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| October 15, 2009 |
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[star!] |
Wow, and this is sooooo good!
"meaning that our words need to be seasoned with grace. Our actions should be motivated by compassion. Our thoughts need to be pure. Our attitude needs to be one of submission. Herein lies the rub as Shakespeare would say. What we should do and what we actually, do are two differently things entirely."
And this reminds me of what my husband and I needed to hear during our first years of marriage:
"Sometimes, they are both wrong and both get wounded in the fight and they not only need a healing but they need a stern butt kicking as well. Ughh! God give us wisdom!"
I truly wish someone had taken us to the woodshed and talked to us. That person being you.
God bless you, Joey
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| October 15, 2009 |
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But then...
Talking about fighting within the church? Ouch! Double ouch! |
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| October 15, 2009 |
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This applies to brother to sister, friend to friend, etc. I will remember " If I were standing over a corpse and began to revile and insult and accuse that corpse, that corpse would just lay there" Thanks Todd! |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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Dude, this word rocks! You said, "it only takes one to break a relationship". I was experiencing a little heartburn at first, thinking that the relationship doesn't have to end b/c one person offends the other. THEN you covered all that when you wrote that we "voluntarily willingly given up your rights for justice and equity and fairness" and "forfeit your right to be hurt, to be offended, to be wounded." You talked about our being crucified, putting to death our selfish desires, needs, and wants. And it occurred to me (or maybe you wrote this too), Christ is faithful to us, despite our many many offenses against him. His faithfulness, love, forgiveness, and acceptance draw me back to him continually! The lesson here for me, if I've understood correctly, is "offense" intended or not doesn't need to bait me into conflict. I even have the capacity, like Christ, to care for those who "offend" me. Todd, great word, pastor. Your congregation is fortunate, and I hope they know it! :-) |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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| Joey, :) (((((((((Joey))))))))) we all need to be remined and guided along the way. |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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| GoJolly: It applies oh does it apply everywhere! It is a constant reminder to me of how far I have to go to grow up in Christ! |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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[star!] |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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Mike: Well when you move to Pensacola you can come to worship with us. LOL You have a great take away, and yes Jesus was the ultimate example wasn't He when it comes to meekness? Well, it is hard to not rear up and fight back as that is our nature, but we have to get beyond that by God's grace don't we? |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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| When Christians fight they go for the jugular. |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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| Olivia, it is true and as the Book of James says, can salt and fresh water flow from the same spring? We praise God with the same mouth we curse our brother. These things ought not to be so. |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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Just my humble opinion. Any person who is offended by the truth of God's Word. Does not belong in my sight. It is not Christian to NOT speak boldly of God's Word. Souls depend on truth. Not mumblings!!
There are many when confronted with the truth and shown to be wrong. Turn away from you. They will say anything to silence you so others do not know they pretend to be a Christain. They will suffer much more than they could ever emagine!! |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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[star!] | This hits home b/c of what happened in our church of 5 years we left in February. I wasn't involved, but my husband, and it really bothered me to see these people acting like children, taking sides, gossiping, slandering and backbiting, and attacking. Acting like kids, basically. One more good thing to mention is if it ain't got nothing to do with you and you're not part of the solution, STAY OUT OF IT. I didn't even take my husband's side in the issue, but I supported him through it, but never got involved in the issue itself if that makes sense. |
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| October 16, 2009 |
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[star!] | This is a really good lesson. I really enjoyed the part about being dead. That's right. Dead to our selfish ways. Dead to our desire to get even. And even, just dead to the fact that it won't hurt us to begin with. Good word Pastor Todd. Prasie the Lord! |
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| October 18, 2009 |
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[star!] | Bro. Todd, I know what you mean. If a person does you wrong, make them a corpus and they will offend you no more, Then we can stand over them and say what we want!......lolololol just kidding. Seriously, if I endure like Jesus, someone just might want to know why I haven't 'fought' back. I tell them my weapon is love. Amen? |
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| October 18, 2009 |
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| Mule: A M E N! |
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| October 18, 2009 |
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"...your response to conflict is a measure of your own spirituality or lack of it."
I agree completely. If our reference point is God, then how can we really get offeneded by someone else? How can we stay mad at someone? |
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| October 19, 2009 |
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| Lara: It makes a lot of sense. We are so quick to take sides on an issue. So rather than it being an isolated event it becomes a wide spread cataclysmic type of event. The Devil knows how to sow discord among the bretheren no doubt and when we see envy and confusion, you can bet the Devil is behind it. |
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| October 19, 2009 |
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| Sis Cece: Great lesson but harder to apply than to understand for sure. |
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| October 19, 2009 |
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| Gene: That's the ticket! Our reference point is God and He colors and influences everything we think, say, and do. It has to be brought to the obediene of Christ. |
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| October 19, 2009 |
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[star!] | no wonder the world doesn't want anything to do with the church, theres enough bickering, gossiping, murmuring, backbiting and backstabbing for them already, thety don't have to go to church. Sadly we forget that we're suppose to be representing Christ. Even more sad to say is that I've been treated better by the ones outside the church than inside. We need to do what the bible says and examine ourselves. Take a good long hard look and not just a glance. If you were in the world, would you want what you see? ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| October 19, 2009 |
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| Crystal: It is true that the church is full of sinners. That's why we go to church right? But, the problem is that we don't die to self enough and we bring our selfiish ambition and all of our own ideas and values into the church and we eitther try to get everyone to accept them or we compromise and try to mix God's word with our ouwn ideas. Of course this doens't work. The sad thing is all the babies that get wounded in the fights. We all need to do better in not just living for God, but dying to our self so that He might be seen in us. But, yes I don't know that our behavior is attractive enough to attract those who are truly hurting and needing love. |
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