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| WWJD - Redux... |
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A while back I had posted this and I find it bouncing up in my head every now and again just because the subtlety on this seems so ... well subtle. So I'm reposting although I'm inlining the Bible reference -------
A couple of years ago, the WWJD bracelets were the big things. What would Jesus do? Why do we ask that question? It seems like it's probably because we want to be like God right? Which seems like a noble enough thing, right? Nothing bad could come out of it at least, right?
So this morning, I'm listening to Pastor Gary's sermon, and along comes the story of Adam and Eve. Along comes the serpent. And how does the serpent tempt Eve? 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." |
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| To add a comment to "WWJD - Redux..." |
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| August 12, 2007 |
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| Hey Norm, Jesus went AGAINST Satan's ploy his entire life, THAT'S what Jesus would do.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
(Philippians 2:5-7)
Trying to make the choices Jesus would make in a given situatoin is not the same as trying to be "like God" or attaining equality with God, which is what Satan was tempting A & E with. Seems that way to me at least. ~mike
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| August 12, 2007 |
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The last paragraph touches on the subtlety. Because it is also stated 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own insight. 3:6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. What I pointing to is the "Trying to make the choices Jesus would make". What are we in the end basing it on? And would God have us do the exact same thing that He would Jesus? |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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| Making the choices Jesus would make means submitting to the Father's will, right? Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but instead showed perfect submission. So, in my mind the answer to the former question is "based on his example of submission", and the answer to the latter question is therefore a resounding YES! |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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Making the choices Jesus would make means submitting to the Father's will, right? Does it? Forget ideal. Forget you're making the perfect decision. When you ask, "What would Jesus do?" does not what you state here describe exactly what it is that Jesus would do? So if for example you're praying about a missionary trip and think WWJD, should that in any way MAKE your decision? No. You're still going to submit to the Father, right? There's a shirt I saw at a store here that had the bracelet referenced here and said "What Jesus did with the hard choices" (or something like that). I think that captures the point perfectly. Would Jesus ask "What would I do"? |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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Hard to read the WWID Bracelet. ;) |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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I don't understand what's wrong with that line:
Making the choices Jesus would make means submitting to the Father's will.....
This doesn't represent a pat ideal. Jesus lived the ideal life, ideal as in perfect, the one we all want to emulate. Not that it's Jesus "the man who lived" that we want to be like, but it's Jesus submitting to the Father that we want to be like.
Would Jesus ask "What would I do"?
Your thought processes are so fascinating to me, precisely because our thinking is so unlike one another! This challenges me! It stretches my brain. Wait a minute, was this entire blog a joke that I never got? |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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| Not to interrupt a two-person conversation, but I think the idea behind WWJD was to help people try to make good choices in situations where you have the choice between a good reaction and a bad one. It wasn't to make it so we could be like god, as in having his power, wisdom, and forgiving love. |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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| No prob, Kaylen! I feel the same way as you on this. |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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A joke? No. I'm not arguing whether Jesus live the ideal life. I'm pointing out the danger of trying to outguess God. If someone handed you a WWJD bracelet with the promise that you would be like Jesus, would you take it? I'm willing to bet if you did this (maybe we should try this as the question for a name tag), you would get a fair number of people who would happily take the bracelet. And without the reference of Adam and Eve in this post, many would not realize what it was they just did. My point with the WWJD and whatever the question is, is that unless WE (being a human) guess at the answer or switch the question to What Did Jesus Do? is the answer not always "Submit to the Father"? And when is the last time you've heard a person ask the WWJD question and end up not trying to solve the question at hand? |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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well, the only time I can ever remember using WWJD was in a situation where there was a person who was alway mean to me. She made other girls stay away from me, made fun of me, and constantly picked on me, and all the other girls just went along with it. Then one day I found out something really embarassing about her. I thought of all the times she had been mean to me, and I was perfectly ready to tell everyone just how weird and dorky she could be. But I was wearing a WWJD bracelet on my wrist, and I looked down at it and I thought about what it said. I had two choices:
1) tell everyone and she would be made fun of
or
2) keep it to myself, and go comfort her because she was crying.
Without the reminder, I'm not sure I would have made the right decision. |
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| August 13, 2007 |
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Interesting thoughts Norm. And original too. I don't think there is a danger of trying to outguess God when wearing a WWJD bracelet, t-shirt, coffee mug, Jesus doll, or any of that. Quite the opposite in fact. My impression has always been, doesn't call the Christian to go deep enough, instead only a superficial Christianity at best. So I've never owned any of that stuff. But if my kids wanted to wear it to help them remember their faith in the midst of trying circumstances, I would be in favor. (In Deut this same kind of reminder was commanded by God - he told them to bind his commands on their arms, heads, etc. Can't look it up, I'd have to open a new browser but laura is sleeping on my other arm...hehe)
If someone handed you a WWJD bracelet with the promise that you would be like Jesus... I don't think that was ever the intention at all. They're just supposed to be reminders. But that's just my take. Like I said above, I kind of bypassed that fad -- if you'd call it a fad. |
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| August 14, 2007 |
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I think everyone (myself included) needs to go back and reread what I originally wrote and then come back here (you can read through my comments again and I'll read through yours.) And then ask this question: 1) Am I arguing against the reminder factor of WWJD? 2) Am I saying it's bad to submit to the Father? 3) Am I pointing out a wrong path you can do down if you get wrapped up in WWJD? And how subtle that danger is? ----- Kaylen J, I've been around people who in every situation they were in, would say WWJD? (Actually most of those people have tamed down now or I've managed to move on to being around other people.) Given that you had one good experience (and apparently no bad ones) why did you stop? Mike, you say our thoughts are so different. I don't think so. Trying to outguess God is shallow Christianity. And that's the very danger I'm referring to. Instead of going and asking the Father, everything is a guessing game of WWJD? The thing that struck me as I was typing this last comment was the difference in philosophy between those who play the game of WWJD? (which almost becomes like living under the law again) and those who ask WWJD? and submit to the Father. Really part of this post came out of where I was at this weekend. I think there's a danger in any movement. The intent can be great and there can be great learning opportunities. But the danger in any movement is when we become so wrapped up in it that we forget what it is that we started down the path for. |
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| August 14, 2007 |
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Instead of going and asking the Father (i.e. prayer?), everything is a guessing game of WWJD?
I believe I see your point now.
ps... There's always danger in every movement. Even when they start out good, they (we) have a tendency to go astray. Just look at the Israelites' movement from Egypt as an example! |
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| August 14, 2007 |
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| Well, later on when I wasn't wearing a WWJD bracelet, when I came to places with those kind of choices, I either made the wrong one (and regrettted it), or stopped myself by thinking about how what I was about to do wasn't right, and it wouldn't please God. As I get older the second one comes easier and easier, and that I think is a really good thing. |
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| August 14, 2007 |
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Sorry for the double post but I wanted to add something about what Mike just said.
Instead of going and asking the Father (i.e. prayer?), everything is a guessing game of WWJD?
That makes a lot more sense.
I believe I see your point now.
Me too. ; )
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