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| Indulgences!! eeekkk!!! |
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To understand indulgences first we have to understand Purgatory…so if you haven’t read the little “Creppy Catholics Explained” purgatory episode, stop and read it HERE
Ok.. .you read it?? Yes? then we are good to go.
So Catholics believe we have to be completely purified before entering the presence of God because “nothing impure will ever enter it” (Rev. 21:27) and that purification either happens here on earth through our prayers/good works/ change of heart or after death.
We need purification because we still have over us the “temporary punishment” of sin. The “eternal punishment” (hell) is no longer a problem cuz we confess our sins and turn back to God, but the “temporary punishment” due to our evil tendencies, small sins, etc still has to be purified from us.
Well, there are certain prayers/good works that the Catholic Church calls indulgences through which the Church tells us we can purify ourselves in order to have a purer heart for God.
In fact, one of the “good works” that have an indulgence attached to it, is reading the Bible! (now, who’s gonna say that doesn’t purify your heart?), Other practices that have an indulgence attached are to pray the Rosary with your family (praying with the family good for the soul right?), studying the Faith, etc.
Now there are some conditions for it to truly purify your heart, first and foremost you should have already repented and stopped doing all the big ugly sins (mortal sins) that you’ve committed and you should have turned your heart to God. This in “catholic speak” means: Go to Confession, and then go to Mass. (which is, repent for your sins, receive Christ in your heart!)
Now, there are many myths about indulgences and if we go one by one this would become a VERY long post… but there is one Myth we really have to go over it: “The Church sells indulgences”….
I mean, we all have hear it…Martin Luther was pretty upset about it….and rightly so!
What happened is this. Back then one of the good works that had an indulgence attached to it was giving alms. Helping the poor…helping the Church…and…yeah… Giving alms is good right? Well…some people (priests/preachers) started doing something really messed up and corrupt out of their own selfishness (or ignorance, but mainly selfishness).
They pretty much taking advantage of the ignorance of the people and started pretty much telling them “gimme ‘alms’ and you won’t have to go to Purgatory” or even worse “gimme ‘alms’ and you don’t have to worry about Hell” So it became a HUGE problem.
To the extent that in 1567 Pope Pius V said that no indulgence was attached to ANY alms giving or anything that had to do with financial transactions, in order to avoid any more abuses… but event though Rome had said “stop” it took a while for the news to reach a lot of people and to stop those abusing this concept. It took a while, but that form of false teaching was rooted out.
So if someone tells you “the Church sells indulgences!” tell them that ain’t true. Cuz it aint. J
Anyway, indulgences are cool, the more the better. Now excuse me, I’m gonna go read the Bible to get some J |
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Kathy |
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August 15, 2007 at 6:28pm |
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| lol - This is the one topic I didn't think you would ever tackle, but that's because I too thought it was still a part of the church. Thanks for enlightening us! |
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ali |
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August 16, 2007 at 9:13am |
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| Thanks Kathy, in fact, they are still very much a part of the Church... but thanks to God, the abuse of it is practically gone . :) |
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shane |
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August 16, 2007 at 3:13pm |
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Something you said brought a question to my mind. Many noncatholics feel Catholics are working there way to heaven, salvation, etc... and they sight Eph. 2 which says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast." What is a good explanation for why it isn't working in our own strength but rather his strength and grace? Many, as you know, find Catholic ways of thinking and the rituals they practice as being the works this verse is talking about, that which is valueless.
Thanks |
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ali |
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August 16, 2007 at 4:52pm |
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Shane! amazing question worthy of its own post!
"For it is by Grace that you have been saved"...true that! Catholics don't believe in 'works alone' or in 'faith alone'...Catholics believe in 'Grace alone!'
But then what's up with the works that Catholics are so intent on doing?
Well, catholics are so intent in good works because it is there that we find Christ, the source of all Grace!
I find and receive His Grace in prayer, in Mass, in Confession;
We might see Catholics “just” going to Mass, confession and talking about Rosaries, feeding the poor and about “good works” and you think “they just follow rituals trying to work out their salvation instead of receiving His Gift of Grace” well...see for a catholic (a well-formed catholic that is) Mass is an intimate moment with the Beloved, the Rosary a loving conversation with Him, Confession is a sweet encounter of Mercy with Him, for catholics all those “rituals” are not just that… they are encounters of Grace with Him!
even Indulgences are just that. The Father giving us His Grace. The Father being "indulgent" with us! because the Sacraments and other good works are where I encounter Christ. The Sacraments are the “meeting point” between the Trinity and me. They aretremendous encounters of grace, Christ healing, Christ forgiving, Christ consoling, Christ strengthening me, Christ loving me with an explosion of Grace!!
anyway, sorry for doing cut and paste fro this answers...I will write this more clearly tomorrow.My brain is absolutelly fried today after very few hours of sleep last night.
Thanks for the comments! |
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I see works as being a manifestation of that grace. Its one thing to say that you follow Christ through your words, quite another to say you follow Christ through your actions. |
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Eric |
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August 17, 2007 at 1:20pm |
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Ali, the world needs more Catholics like you. Great post, and doubly so for your last comment! I ran across this page a few months ago and was very impressed by it. It's a fake dialog between a Catholic and a Protestant on the subject of "Faith" versus "Faith Plus Works". I like the Catholic's argument, though I think the Protestant could have asked tougher questions (there are some angles the Protestant did not touch). The Catholic seems to not subscribe to "Grace Alone," contrary to you, Ali. He writes, "Works actually justify." But this gets REALLY, REALLY close to a topic I have strong urges to avoid on MyChurch -- the specific mechanics of Justification. On this topic the Catholics hold one view, and the Protestants are split between Calvinists and everybody else. Mike got very close to this topic on his blog, and we've argued over this topic in person a few times with nobody budging. |
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Eric |
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August 17, 2007 at 1:23pm |
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| An elaboration worth repeating on the first line in my last comment: your enthusiasm for the Lord t0t@11y r0x!! More Catholics need to be like this. :D |
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ali |
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August 17, 2007 at 1:42pm |
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Thanks Eric... :)
by the way, I don't think the author doesn't hold 'grace alone' after all he wrote "The Church teaches that we can be saved only by God’s grace. " in the fourth paragraph. I do not think that fact that he says "works actually justify" means that he doesn't hold "grace alone"
see catholics believe that it is only through God's grace that we can have faith and do good works.... and in this way we are justified. Ha! I guess that ties it all up :)
Thanks Eric for your comments and questions, I am learning so much myself by doing research on this stuff! yay! |
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shane |
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August 17, 2007 at 2:25pm |
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For Eric or Ali or anyone else for that matter,
Are you aware of any other links like the one you gave. It is very helpful to me for putting my belief into words. You gave some interesting to my question, a point of view I haven't yet heard. One thing in particular stood out to me: "even Indulgences are just that. The Father giving us His Grace. The Father being "indulgent" with us!" I have never thought of indulgences being something of God's gracious favor to us, but rather I've always heard indulgences were either bought or merited by human effort.
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ali |
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August 17, 2007 at 3:02pm |
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Shane Shane, I'm so happy all this posting helps out :) Indeed, every single Sacrament, tradition, prayer, ritual... they are Gifts from the Father, not "our" works. We can never merit His Love, He freely gives it :) yay for God!
Now, about links:
I think one of the places I would start is reading the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The actual Catechism is a fat fat book, and can be kinoff hard to read, but they just put out a Compendium in question and answer format. It is not a "why do we believe this or that?" its more of a "what do we believe?" but it is still great stuff.
You can read it here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
or buy it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Compendium-Catechism-Catholic-Church-Ratzinger/dp/1574557203
Now, Catholic Answers is a great, great organization. They have all kinds of articles and you can even download their radio program "Catholic Answers Live" in which they answer the questions of callers about the Catholic CHurch.Here is their website.
http://www.catholic.com/
Also, there is EWTN, the "Catholic' tv/radio network. Wonderful, wonderful programs. You can view them online, in english or spanish:
http://www.ewtn.com/
Other good resources are:
The Coming Home Network : http://www.chnetwork.org/
The Catholic Encyclpedia: http://www.newadvent.org/
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Eric |
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August 17, 2007 at 5:48pm |
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The Catechism is a total schnooz! ;P It's like reading the Westminster Confession straight-up. The link I posted really helped me, but that's the only one I've found. I see Ali posted the same website as my link, catholic.com, so I'll probably do some more browsing in there for more goodies. |
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ali |
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August 19, 2007 at 12:38am |
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yeah, they have all kinds of good stuff!
and the Catechism is good as a reference tool, most people can just read it from cover to cover (I have some crazy friends that have...but they are my crazy friends... ha ha!) that's why they created the Compendium...a much easier read! :D
and yeah, catholic.com is a good good fun spot :) |
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