It is my question. Lazarus was told to come out of the grave. Could he have refused? The parallel there is when Christ calls us out of our sin. Can we refuse?
Sorry Voice, that I didn't clarify. I was saying that the verse comes across as an order, not an option. So my opinion is that he did not have a choice. I don't think a dead person can say yes or no to a call, unless God breathes life into them. My theology is the same for the dead physically, and spiritually.
If we are truly His sheep, when we hear His voice we will come.
Voice, you asked precisely the same question on March 29, 2007 at 11:19am. And it's a very interesting question too.
I don't think the parallel between Lazarus and us is all that strong. All our lives God is blessing and wooing us, isn't he? But Laz was already dead, so there wasn't any blessing and wooing, all I see is a command, for a specific purpose at a specific time. Imagine if Laz hadn't come out. What would the people have concluded about Jesus' ministry if he had said "Lazarus, come out!" and Laz didn't emerge? I don't think there is any way Laz stays put!
Did the waves have a choice to be still or the water becoming wine? God is the source of life, and He can do with it as He wishes, thus he can give physical life when He wants and He takes physical life when He wants.
This is an interesting question Voice. After having mulled it over a bit, I think yes, Lazurus did have a choice. To view it from the opposite end, did Mary have a choice? Of course she did. In a similar manner so did Lazarus.
Well, I know that when God calls us out of our sin, we can refuse...we have free will. Does that apply to someone already dead? Hmmm...good question. Like Mike said, if Lazarus hadn't come out, that would have shed doubt on Christ. So I would say, based on that, it was a command and not a request, so he did not have a choice. As far as people choosing whether to turn from their sin, if we allow Him, God can work a miracle in the most messed up lives. We do have a choice, but I don't think Lazarus did. Very thought provoking blog!
Interesting question, Voice. I read it last night, but had to ponder it a while. I think I'm close to Mike on this one. I think this was one of God's miracles when He broke through the daily routine of earthly life without Lazarus (or the wine or the waves, as Eric said) having any choice. Free Will applies to our normal everyday lives, not the moments when God reaches in and performs a miracle.
Norm, I believe Peter did have a choice. Just because God (Jesus in this case) knows which choice we will make doesn't mean we don't have that choice. Being unconfined to time, God knows every choice we will make in our lives, but He does not orchestrate our choices.
That's what I think as well. So now push this back to Lazurus. Was there the chance (whether free will or not) that Lazurus was not coming out of the tomb? The fact that Lazurus did does not mean that Jesus was proving this was a command.
However, I do not think this was a moment of "choice" for Lazurus. At least not whether he was going to stay dead or come back to life. Maybe whether he was going to come out of the tomb or just hide out (while still alive).
We seem to equate free will with total control. We can certainly make decisions, but that does not mean we are in control of everything in our environment. Our soul's residence being one of these.
Let me illustrate it in two ways.
1) You find out you have terminal cancer. There is no cure and this time there will be no life saving miracle. If you use free will, can you stay in that body forever?
2) When someone stands before the judgement seat of Christ, he is surprised to hear that he is going to be cast into the lake of fire. Using free will can he decide... Ah no sir! I'm booking myself a one way trip to heaven!
Norm, I agree. I would never equate free will with total control. The world was designed with its seasons and natural laws, and our free will resides within the framework God has given us. When I talk about free will I mean that God does not preordain our every movement. i.e. I do not believe that "everything happens for a purpose," or that everything that happens is "God's will."
The balance? IMHO, God set the parameters of life on earth (to everything there is a season, a time to plant, a time to harvest, a time to die, natural laws like gravity, etc.). Within those parameters. we have free will to make our own choices. (This is not the same as choosing our own destinies, because we cannot control others' choices, natural disasters, sickness, etc.) The rst of the "balance" is that God can step in anytime He chooses, as He did with Lazarus. This is not the norm, but certainly always His option.
Not as simple a question as I make it sound here. For example: How much influence do our prayers have on His stepping in? And why does He step in on one situation and not on another? Why did He leave Lazarus dead the second time he died? Why does he cure one person's cancer and allow another to die?
When He steps in, that's when I agree that "It was God's will." But most of us will live and die according to laws of nature, which is no tragedy from God's perspective, because He knows what awaits us!
Folks, this is a great dialog and I appreciate the comments. I have been away for the day, and am just now catching up.
I can not and will not equate a soul or a person to the inanimate objects God created - water and wine. Sorry, He created us as a special being to be in total communion with him. That sets us apart from the rest of creation. Given that, I can not equate this item (Lazarus) to changing the water into wine. Maybe that is something I need to learn, but right now that is where I am.
My thought is that indeed Lazarus had a choice. Much in the way that Job had a choice to "curse God and die", Lazarus had a choice to ignore the voice of God. However, God knew Job and knew how Job would respond. In this case, Jesus knew Lazarus and knew how Lazarus would respond. I want God to have confidence in me and know me that well.
Regarding the flesh, that is an interesting perspective...to say that the flesh is what gets in our way of obeying God and to be free of the flesh, we obey willingly. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. Need to chew on that idea for a while. My initial thought is that we know that even spiritual beings (free from the flesh) rebelled against God. However, we are created differently...need to think...or as Johnny 5 says...need input.
You know Voice, while i really do appreciate the question, and it does make one think, I believe that you've caused a different issue to rise into my heart, that's reagarding His love, and it's personal attributes. In the scripture you posted it earlier says this;
Joh 11:35 Jesus wept.
I know that free will is of importance, but even more so, the God of the universe wept over the death of a friend, and then called him from the grave, really as a precursor of that final ressurection when we all, whom He has also wept over, get ot come forth, out of the grave, and see the stone rolled away fro us also! So Lazarus got to go first ! He did make a choice, wether before his ressuraction, or at his ressurection, doesn't much matter when ! The real truth is that Christ, in His free will, chose to go to Calvary, die on teh cross, be ressurected, and then ascend into heaven. Isn't that the real best part about free will, that God Himself would, in His free will, chose us ! Thanks ol' Lazarus, I appreciate your paving the way for the rest of us! He knew you by name, He knows us by name !
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