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| Topic: Tithing ..... Join Me In a Biblical Discussion |
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Today I would like to open up the floor on the discussion of tithing. This topic has been discussed many times on here before, but I would like for this to be more of a question and answer discussion. So if you have any questions, bring em on! If you have the answers (or you think you do :), we would like to hear what you have to say. I will start off with a few questions (not necessarily mine, but questions some might have.) So if you have the answer, feel free to express your thoughts. I know we all want to do what glorifies God in the area of giving. I think the heart and the wallet do have some sort of connection :)
So here are the conversation starter questions.....
Should every Christian tithe?
Is there ever a time when a Christian is not obligated to tithe?
What if a Christian is married to a non-believer and he/she says "no" to tithing? Should he/she tithe off of the mother-load, only tithe off of his or her income, or do what the spouse suggest?
Should a person tithe if they can't pay their bills?
How do people tithe if they don't attend a church? Do they tithe to various organizations and/or do they help their fellow man?
Does grace change the law of tithing?
Should we tithe off of our gross or net income?
If you aren't tithing, why not?
I do have plenty of thoughts on these questions, but I want to hear from you first! So get out your Bibles, and let's hear it! I will list a few verses on the topic to give some references.
Feel free to tackle any or all of these questions, create your own, or just put your thoughts down. This post was created to help us learn from different people's viewpoints. Let's respect one another in the Lord!
27:30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.
23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. And we have Malachi 3, of course :)
What saith you?
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| I think tithing is a valid excersize in worship to the Lord, but it is not something that is a "Must Do". If you look st the conversations that Jesus has in regards to tithing, his standards are a lot higher because he want our how lives, not just 10% of our income. |
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Should every Christian tithe?
Good question Sue...I think that we have gone beyond Old Testament tithing and should have the desire, not requirement, to give freely...especially to those in need and to support those who spend their lives devoted to the word of God. God loves a cheerful giver :-) That should be incentive for us to give. I don't believe its still a requirement, but , based on our love for God and each other, why wouldn't we?
(sorry...i don't know how to change the font size back to normal) |
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| IMHO, tithing is a form of legalism that ties us in bondage. Give freely as Zach and Shannon have stated, and why limit it to 10%? Give everything. |
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4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 4:35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
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Guys, I hate to cut and paste so I'm going to post a link: http://home.earthlink.net/~russkellyphd/index.html
This Pastor did his disertation on this very subject and it will blow you away. I disproves what most Preachers teach about tithing. Very, Very interesting! |
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| Sorry, I forgot to put my opinion out there. No, I do not believe tithing is taught for Gentile Christians. Paul does teach proportionate giving based on living a comfortable, content life. For most people, this would exceed the tithe! |
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Hm. Surprised to see these positions regarding tithing. Sue, what's up with our church, why do we keep getting the tithing sermons (hehe). Given the teachings on tithing in the Bible (yes, OT for the most part) and the fact that God never changes, plus the teaching from our pulpit, I had concluded that tithing, though not a "requirement" or binding law, was something God would expect every believer to seek to attain as a minimum standard, once God laid it on our heart.
In fact, I agree w/Voice's exhortation: why stop at 1/10? Give everything.
Giving to the Lord (tithing) seems to follow the Biblical pattern w/regard to the rest of the moral law. Laws on scrolls (written) BC, laws on the heart AD. OT Jews didn't have the indwelling of the H.S. so the written law guided them in their giving. Now that the written standard has been nailed to the cross, we have the H.S. prompting us to give, i.e. we're free to give freely!!!
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Tori |
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August 20, 2007 at 5:00am |
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| Those are some realy good questions about tithing |
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Should every Christian tithe? Yes
Is there ever a time when a Christian is not obligated to tithe? No.
What if a Christian is married to a non-believer and he/she says "no" to tithing? Should he/she tithe off of the mother-load, only tithe off of his or her income, or do what the spouse suggest? It depends if the money maker is the Christian or not. Should a person tithe if they can't pay their bills? Yes, tithe is first.
How do people tithe if they don't attend a church? What? Who are these people?
Do they tithe to various organizations and/or do they help their fellow man? What?
Does grace change the law of tithing? Clearly not!
Should we tithe off of our gross or net income? Net (after the canker worm has eaten [the government]) If you aren't tithing, why not? Great question! |
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GERVIS |
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August 20, 2007 at 5:14am |
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The tithe belongs to God.Not just Christian but all humans. 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
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I think the reason tithing is brought up so much is that it isn't taught properly. I am not saying I have all the answers either. I just know that the teachings I have set through are inadequate. (I have not gone to Chris' link above and will when I have some time.)
I have stated several examples previously on various blogs regarding tithing. Please remember my position on giving to God...I think we should give as much as we possibly can and don't look at some magic number (10%) that somehow gains satisfaction with God.
From a "walking it out" perspective, I understand most of the teachings if I were a person that received a weekly, or routine, paycheck. When I was in the military, it made sense. However, in keeping with Sue's theme here, take these examples:
What about gifts? Do I keep track of the value of gifts and tithe on the value? Those are certainly an increase. What if I can't afford to tithe on it? (Say I am a single parent and someone gives me a car.) What happens then? Do I keep a running total like a check book and when I finally get enough money do I pay "back tithes"?
What about the business owner who makes income off the profits of a business? Some months there is no check (no profits). Some months there is negative cash flow. How often do you calculate the tithe? Only on the positive cash flow months? Or do you do it once a year, once a quarter? Some years there is profit and some years there isn't. As a business owner, I take out enough money to cover my living expenses and a little extra to go out to eat, take a vacation, etc. Do I tithe on that "little extra"? Then I just take out 10% more. Does that make it a tithe?
What about our 401K or IRAs? When do we pay tithe on that money? Some say when we withdraw it. Why?
What about our house? The value goes up, so we take out a second mortgage to pay for college. That is an increase. Do we tithe on that? The government recognizes it and takes more taxes on the house. Wouldn't God recognize it as increase, too? |
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Should a person tithe if they can't pay their bills?
Personally, i think yes. trust the Lord to help you when you are in need. trust him enough to give to him, and he will give back, one way or another. |
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Sue |
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August 20, 2007 at 8:37am |
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I have a few jobs to do, so I have to make this short. YPC, I read about 1/2 of the link, (I will read the other half later.) That is very thought provoking. I had never heard that prospective before. And I don't think I have every read a single document that has challenged my beliefs more than that one. He has some excellent points that cannot simply be ignored.
Recon: Thou art the man! You answered all of the questions!! I know a lot of folks on here don't go to church, and I was wondering how they tithe, or don't they? And about the non-believing spouse, what if they both work :) ? |
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He didn't answer the one about various organizations/fellow man... :-)
Recon, I wonder if you might be able to supply a scriptural basis for the net vs gross answer you gave. The bulk of teaching I've heard recently has indicated the gross, though I don't recall the scriptures used to support that either...
The question I posed to my pastor recently was similar to the one Recon passed on. Are contributions to World Relief, World Vision, crisis pregnancy centers, missionaries, etc. considered part of the "tithe"? Our pastor said 'no', his understanding was that the tithe is what goes into the "storehouse" (local body), whereas what we contribute outside of the local body is giving, to be done over and above the tithe. But he wasn't rigid and unbending on that, and indicated he could be swayed the other way. I said "good thing", b/c I am one who tends to see the "tithe" in this era of worldwide missions and relief organizations as everything given unto the Lord. (But then, I'm not presently rigid and unbending on that answer either...) |
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I have heard it stated this way Mike, " If you eat at Burger King, do you give McDonalds your money?" |
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ali |
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August 20, 2007 at 9:21am |
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In my diocese there is a big push to try to make people good stewarts...but I really like the approach. They say being a good stewart is not only tithing from our treasure...its actually threefold. We should be giving from our time, talent and treasure!
The best thing would be to tithe from all three in equal proportions... but if you can't tithe from your treasure, tithe from your time and talent.
I personally do not see a problem at all with not tithing from my treasure when I really can't afford it. I mean, by providing for my family I am providing for His people! I have been in a position when if I give 10% of my income I wouldn't be able to make rent... so I didn't tithe, but I was still giving Him my treasure by providing for my family... 5:8 But if any provideth not for his own, and specially his own household, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever. obviously, if I spent the alloted 10% shopping and eating out then there might be a problem :)
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I related with Voice in the business tithing area. We own a SMALL business ourselves. It is primarily seasonal. We are always wondering if we are doing things right. We have tried to do an end of the week profit & loss analysis & tithe like that. That didn't seem to work, so we tried monthly P & L's. Then we saw our contracts get much larger & figured out that monthly didn't work well. I am now at the point where I would like to do a yearly P & L just like we do on our taxes, but am struggling with thinking of coming up with tax money & tithe money in the winter when we are so very slow. So, I said, " I will tithe a good guess every week, but even that proved to not be satisfying. I have found a hunger to tithe. When I cant be consistent, I feel lacking. So, I have not found the answer yet, but lets just say it has always been a struggle for us. At the end of the year, we always come out tithing MORE than what we earned. So I guess thats good. |
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Deb |
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August 20, 2007 at 10:47am |
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| Good questions, Sue! One thing I would like to point out, Time, Talent, Treasure...not only should we tithe our money, but we should also give of our time and talent too. So many people think that if they give their money that is enough. The church needs people to make it run too, and so often I see the same people over and over again sharing their time and talent, when others don't do a thing. Not that I am judging that...but we should include Time and Talent along with Treasure. |
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I've gone to Calvary Chapels a lot. Their teaching on tithing has one simple guideline: "If you feel like giving, then give. If you don't feel like giving, then don't." They also have another teaching: "Where God guides, He provides." If provision doesn't exist for some additional ministry, it isn't pursued. I haven't heard of an ineffective Calvary Chapel, nor I heard of one that is in unmanagable debt. Personally, there are times when I've tithed and times when I haven't. When I was without steady income, I prayed about tithing. God put it on my heart to time only my time, and not my money. I helped to set up and take down chairs at my church, and led worship when the occasion presented itself. Now that I have a steady income, I give regularly, and I volunteer. I never give out of guilt or a sense of needing to follow the rules (2 Cor 9:7). Here's the verses Calvary Chapel base their teaching on (emphasis added by me): 2 Cor 9:7
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Exod 35:5 5 'Take from among you a contribution to the LORD; whoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it as the LORD'S contribution: gold, silver, and bronze,
Exod 36:5-6 5 and they said to Moses, "The people are bringing much more than enough for the construction work which the LORD commanded us to perform." 6 So Moses issued a command, and a proclamation was circulated throughout the camp, saying, "Let no man or woman any longer perform work for the contributions of the sanctuary." Thus the people were restrained from bringing any more. |
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"I desire obediance not sacrifice" I think it is an obedience issue, not to say we dont feel the sacrifice part, but it is not what He desires. "How will they know unless they are taught? How will they hear, if they dont have teacher?" We must be taught the Kingdom. Kingdom of God: Gods way of doing things & them being right." |
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So, we must teach the principles of tithing. Then the rest is up to the person. Will you be a hearer & not a doer of the word? I believe every church should be teaching tithing principles. If they are not, it may cause some to stumble. Everyone needs to have the right to obey or disobey. " My people perish for lack of KNOWLEDGE". |
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Should a person tithe if they can't pay their bills? I think 1 Tim 5:8 covers this. 1 Tim 5:8 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. |
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I would like to say some thing, I hear alot of talk on tithing, one of you said that dose grace change the law od tithing ? and you said no it didn't, You can not have things two ways. If we are to still live by the law, we have to do it in every thing, and not pick what we have to do. you say tithing is in the law, so we have to do it, but there are other things in the law, and you say, we are not under that no more, we arw under grace, and another person, if you can't pay your bill, you still have to tithe. show me where Jesus said that, you will not fine it, Jesus ;oves us amd our kids, and he would never tell us not to feed our kids, so we can pay him. |
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| I cannot say for sure whether it is required or not but I can say that either way, If you are only tithing b/c it is required than wouldn't God not honor that. Since He sees the heart of the giver, if it's not in your heart to give and you are only giving b/c it is required, wouldn't God not recognize it then? So either way isn't it a choice we have to make individually? Or am I just confusing myself? |
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| great post Brian, please don't apologize! :-) |
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To the tithers: Doesn't it seem like you have more when you tithe, than when you dont? |
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| I never seem to overdraw my bank account when I'm tithing. |
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Interesting quote: Billy Graham Evangelistic Association: Questions and Answers. It (tithing) is not mentioned in the New Testament except where it is describing Old Testament practices or in the Gospels where Jesus is addressing people who were under the Old Testament law. Note Jesus' comments to the Pharisees in Luke 11:42? A New Testament teaching on giving which may be helpful to you is found in 1 Corinthians 16:2.... This passage brings out four points: we should give individually, regularly, methodically, and proportionately. The matter of your giving is between you and God, and He always takes into account our circumstances. He knows when they are beyond our power to direct and control. The important thing is that we see giving as a privilege and not a burden. It should not be out of a sense of duty, but rather out of love for the Lord and a desire to see His kingdom advanced. Second Corinthians 9:6-7..... What has priority in our lives? Is Christ really first--or do we put ourselves and our own desires first? Make sure Christ is first in your life, and then ask Him to guide you. Note: Billy Graham himself does teach tithing. http://www.billygraham.org/LFA_Article.asp?ArticleID=28 |
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Again I post this link. What Jess is posting above is covered here and the other teachings will make you seriously look at what you believe about tithing.
http://home.earthlink.net/~russkellyphd/index.html
Recon, You will be suprised if you will look at this man's research. |
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| The tithe was never meant to be stockpiled in the bank and build huge buildings. It was there to meet a need and to remind people that their increase came from God. What I see Paul teaching in the NT is proportionate giving, which for most, would be much more than 10%. |
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Cassie |
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August 20, 2007 at 5:06pm |
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It is an honor and a privelege to give to God's work. I am somewhat concerned about some of the answers I have read here, but we all to work this out between us and God. However, I know many good men who have been forced to work outside the ministry (and their wives) to be able to support their families; well no wonder. Then they aren't available when someone needs them and they get criticized. I want to be sure it isn't me that causes the man of God hardship. Any way, yes, every Christian should tithe. Yes, they are obligated to tithe, if that's how you want to put it. I like to think about being obedient to the Lord I love and who loves me so much. I really hate to hear of the Christian woman who is married to the non believe who won't allow her to tithe. It happens all the time. I believe she is to honor her husband, and God will take care of the rest...but she must honor him in all things. I personally believe that if you tithe, paying your bills gets easier. Is it a magic trick or a gimic? NO, but God is faithful. Even we can obey him in our finances, then indeed we do trust him. People who don't attend church??? What?? I hope they are worshipping faithfully in their homes. In that case, they should tithe into God's work somewhere. Tithing didn't go away with the new covenant any more than "thou shall not murder". I read through the article that the link has been posted in this conversation and I have to say, I interpret 1st fruits differently. Tithing from the first fruits meant all the way from the first fruit to the last of the crop. Oh well, I never claimed to be a theologian but I tithe from the gross --my first fruit. People who don't tithe should try it! Not just a few weeks, but do it steady for a while and just see what God does with it. |
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Nobody answered my questions...if we are going to be legalistic about it, how do we do it? (Shannon shared my concern as a business owner - I have gone several years with negative cash flow, so it is hard to find any legal way to "tithe".) What about Christmas gifts? What about when someone takes me out to dinner? Why do we only look at our paycheck? What about an insurance payout that I don't use all of it? How do I tithe on a heirloom that my grandparents pass to us?
I have to say I am with Paster Irwin on this one. Give from the heart, or be totally legalistic about it and figure it all out. You can't have it both ways. |
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Act 20:17-36 "Now from Miletus he [Paul] sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church to come to him. And when they came to him, he said to them: "You yourselves know how I lived among you the whole time from the first day that I set foot in Asia, serving the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials that happened to me through the plots of the Jews; how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house, testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. And now, behold, I am going to Jerusalem, constrained by the Spirit, not knowing what will happen to me there, except that the Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city that imprisonment and afflictions await me. But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again. Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you, for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears. And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" And when he had said these things, he knelt down and prayed with them all."
Paul is on his way back to Jerusalem and he has called ahead to have the Pastors in the region of Ephesus to meet him. The above passages tell us a great deal about the Apostle Paul's feelings concerning the ministry.
If you study carefully the way Luke (a frequent companion of Paul!) treats money in all of his writings, you will see a great reversal in his treatment of money. He is not anti-wealth, but anti-greed.
Folks, we have gotten so far away from how the Church was intended to handle money it is sickening.
From where do we pull all proof texts for tithing?
Then are we saying we are still under the Law?
Some of the very same posters above argued with me that we are under no Law on one of Mike's (Mike and Laura) blogs concerning Law. Friends, we don't get to have it both ways. Either we are or we're not. Tithing was an OT principle that was placed on Land Owners and Farmers.
Chris |
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Voice, you have just hit the proverbial nail. It's legalism to brow beat our church members with an OT doctrine never meant for them.
I'll take it a setp further, in Acts 15 when James gives instructions to the Gentiles thru Paul- He never mentions tithing. |
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| Thanks Chris...I don't feel so alone any more ;^) |
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I cannot, as a Shepherd to God's people and will not, stand over them and Demand they pay 10% which pays my salary (I am Bivocational) with no authority to do so from God's Holy word.
We should give as the Lord has given us increase from a heart that wants to give, but not out of necessity. From a loving heart.
God never, ever meant for His people to starve either. Voice, I used to own my own business so I can identify. With all the Biblical admonitions for us to remember the poor, God is not expecting us to keep placing ourselves in the poorhouse so the "store house" at the Church might be full.
I challenge you to find the collections mentioned in the NT. There are approximately 5. Each and every one is directly attached to a specific need (Church in Jerusalem). Voice, is your church trying to meet a specific need that it could not meet without you contribution? Could you contribute 2% as opposed to 10%? I am just using you as an example because there are thousands out there who will read this and have struggled for quite sometime because they feel like a failure not "giving" enough. Remember that Jesus said, "I will build my Church." We don't build it placing our last dime into the offering plate, or Chicken bucket.;)
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Sue, sorry my sister for talking so much here, but this has really hit my heart lately. So much so, the scales have fallen off.
It is wrong to tell people to "give till it hurts. It's God's money anyway! He'll reward you for it. He can make it return to you 10, 60, or 100 fold!" That's just silly! You are trying to test God! We shouldn't be giving to God strictly because we want God to "return it" to us.
He has blessed us with material wealth that we might be a blessing to others. We should be meeting needs, not building empires! |
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Chris, it is hard to put all of this in short paragraphs, but I will add a couple of things to how I walk my walk...
First, if a need is presented, I pray and, if led, I give. Second, I don't keep track of what I give any more. I don't deduct it from my taxes. I don't get a statement from my church. Just for fun once I tracked how much I gave over a four month period and, suffice to say, it was far more than any 10% number I would have calculated...and it was all given from the heart not out of some fear of robbing God or some compulsion to be within the law.
Our pastor preaches about sacrificial giving. I don't mean to sound harsh against him at all. I have been active in several churches as the military has moved me around the country and I have never seen giving taught well. I think it is a teaching that is lacking in the body as a whole, IMHO. |
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| Oh, and Sue, thanks for the dialog here. |
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Sue |
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August 20, 2007 at 6:40pm |
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| lol, I just got off work. It looks like I have a lot of reading to do :) Thank you all very much, and to think I was wondering if this topic had been over-blogged. |
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Voice, we gave money we didn't have. And I don't mean sacrificial as much as I mean just being 'stupid". We were brow beat that we needed to give and give and give some more. Many times we gave ourselves into the poor house. God never intended that. Although that's what was being preached to us at the time. I pray for people who are struggling with this.
Jesus said, "I will build my Church." He is God and will do this work without one cent of anyone's money. God's blessed us when we have tithed, but he has blessed us much more since we have been giving according to how he has prospered us.
Once we have taken care of our financial needs, we are free to give to meet any need that may arise. We have found ourselves giving more than what we gave just giving a tithe. Oh, yeah, and did I mention that God still has blessed.
There is a reason that this teaching is giving pause, it contradicts what most of us have heard for years. |
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Sue |
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August 21, 2007 at 12:04am |
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Is the husband always the one who should make the decision on how much to give, even if he isn't a believer? |
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I believe a wife should have in subjection to her husband as the Bible teaches. Now, having said that, we husbands are to love our wives as Christ loved the church. The Greek word translated submission gives the indication that "two wills become one will". In other words, what I want my wife should want and likewise, what my wife wants I should also want. I believe if the fellowship within the marriage is where it should be, even an unbelieving husband should desire to please his wife.
I have a several women I know who's husbands don't believe, but I don't know (don't want too) thier respective giving situations. I feel like they would give regardless and then as they feel led. |
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One thing I would like to say on this, if you know any thing about the Bible, you will know that back in the law. every man work, but the priest didn't and had no income, so the law said for the working men to give 10% of his income to the priest, so he could make a living and take care of the needs of the people too. Now if you look at how they do it today, everyone pay tithes, the pastors and elders in the church and all. and they pay it to the church not the elders. if we would do it,liek the law said, we would not pay it to the church but to out pastor or elders. and the pastors and elders would not pay tithes. as the priests did not pay tithes back then. Another thing, they try to get you to pay tithes by telling you that 10% of what you have is God's, no, no, that is not rigth, 100% of what you have is God's. Just some thing to think about.
Pastor Irwin. |
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OH Boy could I get into trouble here...LOLI have had many discussions on this subject. I personally believe that the tithe is an old testament law that is not meant to be kept by gentiles.. Why would we keep one law and not all the laws. What I believe is realy put into to words by my friend John Fenn so I will post his "teaching"
Tithing and Giving in the New Testament (Part 1) Hi all, I'm going to write about the #1 thing people write me about, which is tithing, and they always ask open ended questions like: What do you believe about tithing?
That's something like Groucho Marx asking the hapless guest on his show; "Have you stopped beating your wife?" If you answer yes, you're in trouble; if you say no, you're in trouble.
A question like that does not give me a clue where they're coming from or what their church experience has been, which puts me in the unenviable position of trying to write in some detail, yet for the sake of time and space having to summarize and assume a basic knowledge base, and inevitably I get burned as a result.
Most of those who ask such a question have a 'hot' button they got because they experienced a church that was either (A) very legalistic; or (B) very prosperity '100% tithing' minded; or; (C) they are tired of preachers arm twisting for money to the extent they now break out in hives if someone mentions Malachi 3, or; (D) all of the above or some combination thereof.
But they prefer to keep their little 'hot' button hidden from view, ask me an open ended question, and then attack or at the least, back off, when their button is pushed.
With the start of the new year it only seems right (in a funny sort of way) to try to push ALL the buttons on this week's "Thoughts" by sharing some basic principles, coming at it from another perspective, and once you have the principles down you can apply them to any situation you've experienced (even over and above money issues), and questions you may have...it may be a help.
The first principle sounds ridiculously elementary, yet it needs to be said: People have been giving to God since Abel's offering. The 2nd principle is: People have been getting mad over giving to God since Abel's offering. (Cain didn't take too kindly to it if you'll recall)
But seriously... Giving to God is normal behavior for believers in God...but wait, here are some statistics from George Barna's organization:
Percentages of people who Donated money to a nonprofit organization in the past month: Non-believers - 48% Christians - 47% Gave money to a poor or homeless person in the last year: Non-believers - 34% Christians - 24%
The fact that non-Christians out give Christians may be because we (Christians) have been so abused, beaten over the head, and had our arms twisted so much over the years from the traditional church that we are shell-shocked over the issue of giving and tithing.
Here I hope, is a little sanity to soothe your soul:
The first thing to keep in mind is that the Old Testament contained a series of 613 external laws to guide Israel's behavior. These laws were broken up into 3 groups: Worship, moral, and dietary/sanitary.
But now, God through the New Testament has written those laws in our hearts and minds. What used to be external is now an internal grace. Note Hebrews 10:16-17 quoting Jeremiah 31:34: "This is the new covenant, I will write my laws in their hearts and in their minds..."
This is why Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 that he didn't come to abolish the law, he came to fulfill it. Fulfilling the law is like this: When a person buys a car over the course 5 years with 60 months of payments for example, once they make that last payment they have fulfilled the contract. They didn't abolish the contract (negate the purchase), they fulfilled it.
Because they fulfilled the contract (law) they have now become the possessors of the contract and have (now) the grace to do whatever they wish to that contract. It's the same with a person paying off a mortgage. By paying the price in full you become possessors of the contract - burn the thing, frame it and hang it on a wall - it doesn't matter because you now own the contract.
Jesus fulfilled the law by walking blameless in all 613 rules, and then nailed those rules to his cross, taking possession as owner of the law. Colossians 2:14 says Jesus took the contract, the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, and nailed it to his cross. Jesus now owns the contract, and we own it by virtue of being in Him and He in us.
Those external laws of the Old Testament are now in us, we possess them, and we can do with them what we want...so keep that in mind as we proceed.
There is another principle that builds on the principle of owning the law that we need to look at, and that is the principle of using the cross as a strainer.
Think of the Old Testament, from Genesis through Malachi as the thing we want strained. The 4 gospels are the funnel, and the cross is the strainer. Anything that makes it through the strainer into Acts through Revelation is applicable today in one degree or another.
How do we know something has made it through? - If it's written about as being in the life of the churches Paul and others wrote to, OR if nothing is mentioned of it at all in the New Testament but understood to be relevant by the writers of the New Testament.
How do we know if something did not make it through? - It will be written about as being not for today.
How do we know if something made it through, but modified? - If it's written about in the New Testament as still being applicable but modified to the church then it's made it through the strainer. These issue are what I would term, swallowed up by grace and become part of a larger whole.
As a side note lest someone try to apply cultural issues to the 'strainer' and not understand this principle is limited to the Mosaic Law: Cultural issues are clearly identified as being cultural, such as Paul mentioning three times in I Corinthians 11 that the veiling of women was a local custom when he wrote about it. In Rome women weren't veiled, but in Corinth's area it was common, not unlike the Muslim mid-east versus the west today...follow the local customs is what he said. (I Corinthians 11:6,13,16)
Back to the subject at hand: Some things making it through untouched that ARE addressed in the New Testament:
Sexual sin. Leviticus 18 is a chapter largely devoted to instructions about not uncovering the nakedness of various men and women - a friend's wife, your sister, your son's daughter, your sister in law, your dad's brother, etc.
Jesus in the 'funnel' of the gospels, and on the other side of the strainer, the letters of the New Testament have several passages dealing with fornication, which is sexual relations outside of marriage, so we know that guidelines for sexual relations has successfully made it through the strainer of the cross. (Incidentally, the instructions in Leviticus cover the subject of pornography, as seeing another man's wife/relative or husband/relative is forbidden)
The subject of sexual sin was in the Old Testament, addressed as being relevant in the gospels, and addressed as being relevant in Acts-Revelation; Therefore we are possessors of the law in this matter...it's not in my spirit to uncover another woman's nakedness...it's not a matter of external law, the law is inside my spirit man - the spirit/Spirit constrains me from the inside not to do such a thing.
Something not mentioned at all in the New Testament, and therefore has made it through unchanged:
Abortion and the question of life in the womb. Exodus 21:22-23 is a law that states if men are fighting and a nearby pregnant woman has a miscarriage as a result of inadvertently being injured in that fight, then the man responsible is to pay for it; anything ranging from a monetary fine to being put to death, giving "life for life", as the judges determine.
Therefore we know God considers a baby in the womb as life...was it addressed in Mathew through John? No. Is it addressed in Acts - Revelation? No. Therefore it made it through the cross untouched and we can say (it should be) illegal to kill a baby in the womb.
Now for 2 things strained out, that are mentioned in the New Testament and modified - diet and holy days:
Leviticus 11 and elsewhere limits what Israel's diet should be - including not eating scavengers of any kind. Those who know me know that I don't eat what I call, "insects of the sea" (crab, lobster, shrimp), which is consistent with the law. I don't eat them because I don't like the taste and texture, and am mentally turned off because they eat poop and dead things, not because Leviticus tells me not to eat them.
But...can you eat them nowadays if you want? We strain them through the cross and look for something in Paul's writing, and lo and behold he talks about food in Romans 14: 1-18 and I Corinthians 8:1-13 and 10:23-33.
In Romans 14 he mentions 2 issues of the day: those who consider one particular day a Sabbath day (who he calls weak in the faith) versus those who think all days are equal; and those who "believes he may eat all things; another, who is weak (in the faith), is a vegetarian."
His answer? If a person wants to eat anything under the sun; or if they want to eat just vegetables, let them, for each does so unto the Lord. As he would later say in I Corinthians 10:23, "all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient."
So the dietary laws are now on the inside of us and we can eat what we want...eating 3 Big Macs a day might not be expedient, but it is lawful. John the Baptist ate grasshoppers, buy hey, who am I to argue with him?
The same with holy days...the OT says Saturday is the Sabbath (as well as other OT feasts/fasts), but places in the NT show they met on Sunday (I Cor 16:1-2 for instance) and from house to house any day..."Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind." (Romans 14:5)
Thus...both the OT Sabbath laws and the OT eating laws got strained out. No where does Paul or the other apostles command Christians to worship on Saturday or hold other Sabbath days, nor do they command them to eat according to the Levitical law...it all got strained. Yet the principles, the kernel of truth, remain. It is good and right we set a Sabbath to rest, reflect, worship, and recharge. It's still needed, though not mandated to be each Saturday. And the eating laws are good principles that make for healthy bodies, so the kernel of truth remains, but it's up to us if we want to follow them.
In fact, Acts 15: 20-21 says the only constraints from the Old Testament they put on the believers was to abstain from sexual sin, idolatry (Commandments #1 & #2 having made it safely through the strainer), and from eating blood (for the sake of the synagogues and Jewish population around them - in other words, that part is a directive to be sensitive to local custom and culture no matter how 'free' you are in Christ - ie be considerate - if you're having dinner with an orthodox Jew, don't order your steak rare)
Thus whatever gets strained remains a good principle, and we can learn from it...but it is now a grace on the inside of us to do with as we wish. Paul said the things that happened to Israel were examples for us. ( I Cor 10:6)
Now something superceded and swallowed up by a larger principle: What about giving to God, either 10% (tithe) or more, or even less? Giving to God has been in existence since Abel gave to God, and giving has made it safely through the cross, for giving is talked about quite a bit in the Gospels and rest of the New Testament, but not through legalism, but with grace.
Is there anything from Acts to Revelation about tithing?
The answer is no. Why is that? Because the law, having moved inside us, is now a grace. Therefore giving in the New Testament has superceded and swallowed up the 10% level of giving, for in Acts 2: 44-45 we see: "And all that believed were together and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them to all men, as everyone had need." and in Acts 4:32 "...but they had all things common."
Why drop down from 100% to just 10%? Tithing has been swallowed up by the 100% giving of the New Testament. (laying down your life for others) You aren't held to an external law, but rather an internal one - love, grace, integrity.
The Law not only set a minimum of 10%, but by naming a percentage it also provided a cap...they didn't have to give anything beyond that 10%. In the New Testament there is no cap. You give as you have, as you want, as you are led. Why would I want to drop down to 10%???
You don't suffer a curse at 9.999% giving and then burst into heavenly blessing at 10.001%...you are blessed because of Jesus' blood, and that is how God relates to you in terms of his relationship with you.
But in the natural realm we must ask: Is the truth of 'what is released on the earth is also released in heaven' still at work? Yes...from Genesis, through Proverbs, through Jesus' statements, through Paul's writings, God does bless the giver...that has made it through the strainer for sure, untouched.
How we give is modified by grace, but giving itself went through the strainer of the cross untouched.
There is a grace over Christian givers that is not over stingy Christians - a sense of timing, 'luck', favor, and a host of intangible things that are hard to put into words...we still live in this world and if you give you enter a flow of blessing that involves inflow and outflow and timing...it's just the way it is. God so loved that he gave...and those who follow in His footsteps by giving are blessed.
Paul called giving a grace in II Corinthians 8:7: "You abound in faith, utterance, and in knowledge, and your love for us, see that you abound in this grace also." Abound...in this grace also. We want to abound in grace when we come before the throne asking for mercy, or help, or peace...do we want to abound in this grace as well? (that's a heart issue each of us must ask of ourselves)
He says in verse 10 that he gives advice on that matter. Why advice? Because giving is a grace, not an external law. (His advice became our scripture so it was very good advice)
He continues: Verse 11 | |
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