Because we are imperfect, we have a hard time wrapping our heads around the idea that our PERFECT GOD would judge them all the same.  But He is perfect in His judgement and his righteousness, so this is the case.

Imagine it from the flip-side:  what if there were, for sake of simplicity, 3 types of sins in God's eyes:

Trivial Sins

Regular Sins

Major Sins.

How many trivial sins would you have to commit to get the 'punishment' due 1 regular sin?  How many regular sins equal 1 major sin?  It starts to sound silly then, doesn't it?  

It's like it was explained to me - how many times do you have to murder someone before you're a murderer?  It just takes one.

How about how many rapes to be called a rapist?  Same answer.

So the same should be for a blasphemer, a liar, a thief...one time is all it takes. 

While Jesus died for my sinful actions, He also died for my desire to sin.

I think there are a couple of reasons all sins are the same in God's eyes.

The first is the fact that we want to sin.  In the sermon on the mount, Jesus said that hate was equivalent to murder, that lust was equivalent to adultery.  Notice Jesus is saying that if we want to sin, that's equivalent to doing the sin.  In Isaiah 53:6, the iniquity that is laid on Jesus is that "each of us has turned to his own way."  This leads to something rather interesting fact - is there any difference in the intensity of sin.  Is there any difference in God's eyes between the action of entertaining a lustful thought, or the act of rape?  Since both of these actions are an expression of the same heart problem (lust), there isn't any difference.  A teen age boy with lustful thoughts and a practicing sex offender are both acting on the same sinful motivation.  The earthly ramifications are definitely different (and should be), but both actions show the same heart problem.

Another reason why sins are all the same in God's eyes is the cost of each sin.  Every sin and sinful motivation cost Christ's life.  Romans 1 says we all know God's plan of salvation on some level.  I have to come to grips with the fact that I've knowingly committed actions that Christ would have to die for.

Incidentally, this is also why we shouldn't judge other people for their sins - we have all the same motivation to sin that they do.  Also, before I know any particulars of your sins or sinful habits, I've already committed an action that lead to the death of Christ.  I didn't murder just anyone, I murdered the Son of God.

Here are the scriptures I reference:

Matt 5: 21,22, 27,28
21  "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'
22  But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

27  "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'
28  But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to his own way;
    and the LORD has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.

Charles Spurgeon had a sermon on God, and His perfection and unchanging nature.  It was really cool to read, but it applies here:

If God is perfect, he cannot change - change implies that something needed 'fixing' or 'modification', meaning it was not perfect.  Now, does that mean He could be "more perfect" now, or that He was "less perfect before"?  No, that's silly.  He is I AM.  Always the same always perfect.

So, If Heaven is being with God (perfection), and we cannot get to Heaven without perfection through the forgiveness of our sins and the Blood of Christ, then how can there be "less perfect" parts of heaven for those that are "less perfect" to exist in?  

Remember, all our good deeds are like dirty rags to God...we try to show them to Him as if that would tip the scales away from our judgement, but it won't  Either we accept Jesus as our savior and repent, knowing that we have 1 of 2 options - heaven or hell, or we make the choice for damnation.

I guess it's also hard for us to wrap our heads around this too, that there isn't the option to live an 'ok life' and get an eternity of mediocre existence in heaven...but I think it also speaks to the sin of Idolatry - we don't look at scripture for the answer, but what 'we want'.  

Just watch anytime you say "What I think...".  We all do it, and it's our nature to have opinions, but many of us start to think  that our opinions shape the reality of the truth.

:D 

Hey Deb,

I talked to another person on this site about an article that our local Pastor has taught, but they were very unwilling to hear it. So thanks for giving me an oppurtunity to present it here.

Premise: Are all sins equal to God, and will they all receive the same punishment, in the hereafter?
 
Jesus answered Pilate and said, "the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin Jn.19:11)."

To me, Jesus was not saying that they had broken an earthly law, but a heavenly one, and that it was a greater sin. Unless greater doesn't mean greater anymore?

From the old testament, "You who judged your sisters (Northern Israel), bear your own shame also, because the sins which you (Judah) committed were more abominable than theirs; they are more righteous than you. Yes, be disgraced also, and bear your own shame, because you justified your sisters (made them appear less wicked)" - spoken by God in Ezekiel 16:51.

Here God says Judah had committed greater sins. So this isn't anything new with God, it is the way that He seems to have thought about sin, from the beginning. Also if you look at the way in which people reconciled for their sins. Some had to do many things, while others not as much. I think what we tend to do is, because we know God can forgive the most vile sinner we take that and equal it to God punishing sin equally. But they are not the same God has the right to punish sin as He sees fit, regardless if He will forgive the most vile sinner.

What about punishment? In Luke 12 starting at verse 42 Jesus shares a situation that some think tells of the time when He will return - return to the Jews (not necessarilly born again), but the chosen. In this account Jesus lays out differences of punishment - (some) shall be beaten with many stripes, while others few (47,48). It's also interesting what Jesus says after this, "I came to send fire on the earth [judgment], and how I wish it were already kindled!"

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves (Mat. 23:14-15)."

First they are going to receive a greater condemnation. Then two, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. Both of these seem to show different levels.

I think the thing we have a hard time grasping is punishment. How can there be "hell lite?"  Unquenchable fire seems that it would be the ultimate in punishment no matter what you did, if you found yourself in hell it would be as equally bad if you went there as Adolph Hitler or an adulterer. Both bad, both in hell. But what does God and Jesus seem to say?  Is it possible there could be different deaths, different severities? I know if I had my choice, I'd rather die in my sleep than be eaten by sharks in the Ocean. So, since there are different deaths and different severities here on Earth, I don't think it's impossible that the hereafter could have these realities also.     
 
"Bethsaida... it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.  And you, Capernaum... it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you (Mat. 11:21-24)."
 
"In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow... (a heavenly voice in Rev.18:7)." Pay back at the same level that they dished it out.
 

I really think (but I do not know how), that Hitler will be subject to greater condemnation than the adulterer, even though both will be in Hell.   R...

R....you spelled it out this time at least, so I'll give it another shot.  

I'll go back to what I was saying about someone being a murderer...how many murders does he need to commit to be considered a murderer?  Just one.  

Now, that's where Jesus' upped the ante, so to speak.  I need only one person that I've hated, and I'm a murderer in God's eyes.

To take it to the logical conclusion...once Hitler had the first person killed for being Jewish, or non-German, he became a murderer.

Without Christ, I would be in hell with Hitler, for the same sin.  NOT that I'm a 1xmurderer, and he's a 100000000xmurderer.  We're perfectly judged as murderers. 

Now, if someone, like Hitler, who was responsible for the murder of millions, came to God, in genuine repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ - does he have to do it more than once to receive God's forgiveness? 

He has more to be repentent for, but his million murders would be forgiven by GODS PERFECT FORGIVENESS just like my hate. 

I think we want to believe that sins are treated differently by God - we have all said "at least I'm not a murderer" when we're told we've blasphemed, or lied. 

That's why Jesus said that all that look at a woman with lust are adulterers at heart, and all that hate their brother are murderers...to point out that no one that has lived in this flawed creation (flawed by man and sin), has lived a sinless life.

It is not our place to judge anyone - God has that responsibility.  But just keep in mind, without salvation through Christ's sacrifice,

EVERY PERSON that walked and walks and will walk the earth (except Christ) were on their way to hell.  Someone else above said, being saved we don't have to worry about if there are 'tiers' to hell, and that is good enough for me.

Knowing that Jesus died for me so that I don't have to go to hell, even though I deserve it, makes me want to go out and talk to other sinners about the Gospel.

 R- my whole point is this:  if you assume people are going to be punished in different ways, then does that keep you from trying to preach the Gospel to them, thinking that they are 'unsavable"? 

That's why I'm against discussing what their punishments could be - outside of the general idea that they are going to hell without Christ.

Hey,

I know I posed this thought before, but I'll ask it, as a question this time. 

Is it possible that there could be different deaths, different levels of severity in hell? I know if I had my choice, I'd rather die in my sleep than be eaten by sharks in the Ocean. So, since there are different deaths and different levels of severity here on Earth, I don't think it's impossible that the hereafter could have these realities also. What do you think (from the scriptures) and why? 

P.S. Can you give the scriptures that say it?  R...

Hey,

Growing wrote, "R- my whole point is this:  if you assume people are going to be punished in different ways, then does that keep you from trying to preach the Gospel to them, thinking that they are 'unsavable?"

First, I am not assuming my conclusions, as you say in the above quote. They are based on the verses that I've brought to the table of this discussion.  I sympthaize with people who don't like it, because I don't like to see others hurting or upset. However, we are not called to be the most popular or well liked, especially if it means we need to re-write what God's word says. We must relate what the word says, regardless if it is what people want to hear (and I know that you know this and agree with it).

Second part (to answer Growings question - in my own words), "do you R keep from preaching the Gospel to people that you consider the worst sinners?" "Would I had have kept from sharing Christ with Hitler?"

No. I don't keep from sharing God with anyone (if the oppurtunity is there), no matter what they've done or are doing. Second, if I would have lived there and had the oppurtunity to share the Love and Life of Christ with Hitler... I would have, even if I didn't want to. Same as Corrie Ten Boon.

Peace bro and readers here, Peace. 

R...

Then we all agree.

You'll go to hell without christ and repentance.

It's God's Place to judge, not ours.  And it's His place to decide the punishment.

But no sin that someone commits should keep us from speaking the Gospel to them.

Thanks for pressing the points you made, R, I am glad we got a second chance to clear the air about them.

Paul 

     If we are lead by the Spirit, we know that our lives should reflect being led. If we are continuing in sins on purpose, I think we should examine our faith. As some had said, to a Holy and Righteous God what sin is acceptable at all, and what does it say to God when we claim to be saved yet walk in the darkness, that we know Jesus has forgiven all our sins and yet keep sinning on purpose.

Hey Deb and others,

While reading the comments, I realize there is another big issue and question that needs addressed (if you want), "can God change His mind?" and if He has... "does that make Him a bit less perfect to us?  

If so, why?"  R...

I have to disagree with the idea that we will receive varying punishments for our sin.   I have two reasons for this, one is the attitude thing, the other is scriptural.

Since we sin in attitudes and motivations, we commit many, many more sins that we realize.  Any time we feel like pursuing an action that is outside of God's will, it's an indication of sin in us.  We are inherently sinful enough that if God punished me in heaven for all my sinfulness, I'd never have any blessings.

Scripturally, this is addressed in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.  It mentions each will be receive a reward for quality work (described as gold, silver and precious stones).  It mentioned we each will not receive are reward for poor quality work (described as wood, hay and straw).  Notice that it does not say any rewards will be removed for poor quality work.  What defines quality work?  I think 1 Corinthians 13 handles that quite nicely.

Just a further note, to take this idea to it's logical conclusion: "...letting the alcohol control you is sinful."  Paul states letting anything control you is sinful (1 Cor 6:12).  With that in mind, there are a number of "good" things I do that can have very sinful motivations.  I must admit, when ice cream is in my house, I tend to be controlled by it, more that I control my craving.  From what Paul said, I've come to the conclusion that ice cream is a sin for me.

And why not bring up another topic?   "Yet having Jesus in our lives, we should not sin on purpose."  I think that a habit of sinning on purpose is what the Bible calls bondage. What do you think about that?

1 Corinthians 3:11
11  For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12  Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13  each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14  If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15  If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 

1 Corinthians 6:12
12  All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

E. Degrees of punishment in hell

1. Proof texts:

a) Many and few lashes: Lk 12:47-48

b) Both lost but one judgement more tolerable than other: Mt 11:24

c) Hypocrites will receive "greater condemnation": Mk 12:40

d) Better for them if they had never been Christians: 2 Pe 2:20-21

2. The basis of the degree of punishment is not the frequency or magnitude of sin, but rather how accountable the individual was to God: (teachers- stricter judgement Jas 3:1)

a) The elder who runs off with another women will be punished more severely than any of the recent mass murder-rapists.

b) It is not a matter of how bad they sinned but the degree they knew it was sin.

Hey,

In this blog there seems to be two different questions being asked and addressed.
 

1. Will God deal with all sins the same, when it comes to believers? 

2. Will God deal with all sins the same, when it comes to unbelievers?
 

For sometime I thought question 2's answer was No, today I do not. If you look back to some of the verses I presented, they are saying some people (unbelievers), are going to receive "greater condemnation."

But now... that Jess has brought up 1 Cor. 3:15, I might have to adjust my ideas on punishment or suffering for the believer also.
 

Why?  Because if a person (believer), had done many more things without God than another person... it is reasonable to assume, that they would suffer the loss more greatly, than another person who had done less. ~ Both will be saved according to the verse, but one I suppose would suffer more because they had more to burn. Do you get what I'm saying?

One had a backyard Bar-b-que fire, while the other had a four alarm-er with all the trucks, media and medical departments.
  

R...

For a few years, I've had this idea.  Please let me know if isn't scripturally sound in your opinion.

People in heaven and hell will receive the same blessings/losses (not punishments).  The difference is people in hell will be without God, and therefore have a purposeless eternity.

I hope I didn't just give people enough wood to burn me at the stake ;) 

Jess, I certainly won't burn you at the stake!  :)  I think that being without God for eternity would be hell.  I can't even imagine it.  I don't know how anything could be any worse.  And likewise, if we are in the presence of our Savior, how could it be any better?

Alrighty then, I'll try to be a total heretic =D

I can't except the notion that God "sends" anyone to hell.  I think the people who go to hell will do so because that's where they want to be.  I've spoken to many people who say "I can't follow a God who would ______".  For these people, staying in heaven for eternity would be worse than hell!  They would have to deal with God 24/7/365 (or whatever the heavenly equivelent is).  For them, going to hell would be a merciful alternative.

Cool!  A verse to back my heresy up =D

Oh, wait, that means it isn't heresy.  Oh, well, so much for my bad boy persona! =D

Thanks Deb 

Here ya go....

Matt 25:41

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Hey Deb,

I'd like to hear him discuss these 2 points with our Pastor. I don't know what he bases his findings on, but I can't think of anything. On the surface and in my mind, it doesn't seem quite right. Here are the ones I'm talking about (verbatim):

2. The basis of the degree of punishment is not the frequency or magnitude of sin, but rather how accountable the individual was to God: (teachers- stricter judgement Jas 3:1).

a) The elder who runs off with another women will be punished more severely than any of the recent mass murder-rapists. - What are the proof texts for this belief and would he be willing to discuss it on air?  If so, 1-800-836-9278  - M-F at 3MST.  Also on the internet at Kgov.com

b) It is not a matter of how bad they sinned but the degree they knew it was sin.  - What? Are we talking about believers or unbelievers? This also applies to the one above it (believers or unbelievers).

You can listen on line to the broadcast in about 1mins.  Thanks, R...

Hey Steve,

You'd be interesting to listen to on the radio and try to defend your theory with our Pastor. Want to give it a try?  He's on M-F at 3pm (Mountain time), and to find out if you can or should call in go to this web link at 3 and there will appear a button that you can click on, to listen to the program live = www.kgov.com.
 
He might be able to guide you through what seems to be a stumbling block to many.  And of course the greatest thing to invetigate is what does greater condemnation mean?

P.S. Sorry to anyone who may have called the program 1-800-836-9278 regarding this blog or any other and found they could not get on with the Pastor because he was discussing something else. Some things do take priority. But keep trying if interested. After all if our Pastor is mis-leading people the rest of us want to know about it.  In advance, thanks for caring.  R...