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| The Power of Thinking |
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Somewhat stealing from Jason over here. Which of these is more Biblical to claim: 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you hope in your latter end. or 5:22 and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, and make thy body to swell, and thy thigh to fall away.
Blessing or curse? |
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Sue |
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September 03, 2007 at 8:49pm |
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Since you sited two Bible verses, I wouldn't say one is more "Biblical" than the other. But I would like to remain on the side of the first verse :)
Actually I have experienced both of these verses to the fullest extent. If you ever go to Pittsburg, drink bottled water :) |
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Norm |
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September 04, 2007 at 12:46am |
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Yeah that probably isn't the best of wording. However I think the bigger issue is realizing I should have chosen a different verse for the second one. :) How about this one: 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. |
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| Sometimes the plans He has for us, to prosper us, are not the easiest to undertake. But like a coach who sees the potential in the team whose individual members don't add up to much, God sees all of us as a Body and work through us in ways that we seldom understand. |
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Norm |
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September 04, 2007 at 4:55am |
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I guess my question will have to be more distinct. Outside of the "Wisdom" (Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes) books in the Old Testament much of the statements are historical. If you go and look up the context of any of the verses, you will find that they were directed towards specific individuals. So the question I'm asking is how can we "claim" one verse while disregarding the others? |
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Context is critical. Here is some context for Jer 29:11. "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Notice that they first had to go through the ordeal with Babylon. Believers who love to quote v.11 almost always neglect v.10. Furthermore, the Lord goes on to say in v.13, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." So if the believer isn't seeking with all their heart, can it really be said that they are about to lay claim to the promise of prosperity?
And a further note on context. v.14 says "I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile." I have yet to figure out what significance this verse has for the modern day believer who has never been exiled. So your point about context is indeed very important.
Of course, the point of the oft-quoted v.11 could be seen from the eternal perspective, in which every believer indeed has an incredible "hope and a future" to look forward to. Where we get into trouble is when we put all our eggs in the basket that lies "under the sun" where everything is "vanity" (Solomon, Ecclesiastes). |
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Norm |
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September 04, 2007 at 6:00pm |
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Mike, Your statements agree with mine to a point (and maybe that's what you're referring to in the second paragraph). However clarifying my question is how can we (the ones who weren't brought back to this place) can make any claim on that verse whatsoever? Is that not a historical statement/promise made to a specific group of people? And why do we only do this with "positive" verses. As opposed to the "negative" curse filled ones? I'm certainly guilty of this as well. Actually I really like Jeremiah 29:11, but I don't know that I am it's actual intended audience. |
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| No doubt, Jer 29:11 is mightily abused. I hardly see it as a promise that I will live in a big house, have lots of Christian friends, have a good job with a high salary, and a position of great respect and honor within the church. Like you, I see it primarily or at least initially in its historical context. However, the verse (29:11) does teach a principle, which unfortunately gets glossed over when people rush to apply it literally to their lives. This verse shows us that God didn't completely abandon his people, and neither will he ever abandon us. We as God's people of this age also have a "hope and future" which are a direct consequence of the Lord's love for us. Again focusing on the principle rather than the literal, this verse can be seen as an encouragement in that regard. |
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