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| Would Jesus have dinner with Britney & Lindsay? |
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At the conclusion of this week's Bible Study, we had our closing prayer, and I asked for everyone to share with the group regarding specific prayer requests. While we were sharing, my wife, Kim, spoke up and said a name that I can honestly that I wasn't expecting to hear from her. Ever. Britney Spears. Two days after she made headlines again, Kim did what every Christian should have been doing all along: praying for her. We always hear (and hopefully, offer) prayers for our religious leaders, but aren't we missing something? It's 2007, and whether we like it or not, the people on television, in movies and music are leaders. I don't know how popular this statement will be, but as Christians, I feel like we are doing a terrible job of presenting ourselves to the world as a people of prayer. We know all the latest gossip, but we don't pray together like we should. It seems like the only time we talk about celebrities in church is to condemn them while they're living, or mention them when they've died. Isn't there a flaw in there? I'm not saying that we should excuse the kind of rampant sin infecting society, because we're called to be a light of the world, but just ask yourself a question: when you read or even hear about someone famous who has been caught up in a bad situation, what is your response? Do you read the gossip, or do you pray for the person while everyone else is talking? So, here's the challenge. Make a list of 5 people you've read about and talked about, but never prayed for. Make a commitment to spend some time in prayer for them, according to some of the challenges we see them facing. |
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| To add a comment to "Would Jesus have dinner with Britney & Lindsay?" |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Hey Tim, I realize you want to share this encouragement to pray for the ungodly more, and I agree, some do need to pray more, rather than gossip. But it does bring up a question, if these that you are talking about, gossip (showing some immaturity already); just what will they pray for? What specifically? Nothing wrong to me... if you give them a little prayer advice. Of course this also brings up a question concerning your title, "Would Jesus have dinner with Britney & Lindsay?" He could, but the greater question is, would he instantly forgive them? If they had no interest in repenting from the things they have done and the damage they have caused, to many people, I don't think He would (without repentance). "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother (or sister) sins against you, Rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them (Luke 17:3)." Would the media promote their repentance like they have their ungodliness? Would either two of them want that? If they are on certain peoples minds, the first thing I think we should encourage them to pray for is, that they would repent and make it public... much more so than their ungodliness. My two cents... R. |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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I am so convicted. Guilty as charged. Never stopped to even give it a thought. I do not see Britney as a leader, however, she is a role-model or an idol for many. She's lost and confused, yet no different than any other soul without Christ.
There are still many flaws within me, and once again by the mercies of God, I now have the opportunity to make it right in His sight.
Thank you for this message, thank you for the teaching.
Pastor Aminata
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| September 13, 2007 |
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| R, thanks so much for sharing. Of course, I totally agree with your point. I think as Christians, we see some of these people who are ridiculed, and our reaction to them is completely unacceptable. Most people that I talk to have no problem embracing the idea that Jesus would forgive them, I just thought the most challenging way to pose the question was to inquire on the level of how He would love them. Thanks again for the comments, and keep 'em coming! |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Pastor Aminata, I'm with you. My heart was pricked the moment my wife mentioned her name. I think you're right about the leader versus role model thing, but I do think that I see so many people not just imitating her style, but following her steps, I felt like she is leading some people as well, though we both know that's completely opposite of God's intention for their lives. As you can tell by the time of the original posting, it was something that couldn't wait, and I honestly ended it a bit wound up, because I thought there was more to be said. The Lord, however, closed my mouth and indicated to me that I was to stop with those comments. I hope I can post again on the subject, because I strongly believe that there is much to be said. Thank you for your words of encouragement! |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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A soul, is a soul, is a soul!, all need to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, it is our duty to share Christ werever we go. we must do this by praying and weeping day and night! I think that most of the time we as Christians spend so much time looking at the lost, but we are looking at them in the wrong way! what i mean is that we dont remember how we used to be. we tend to view the Sins of others different or mesure the Sin insted of understanding that their are no big and little sins with God.
Sin is Sin and we all need to be saved. Yes i believe that Jesus would have dinner with these two young ladies!
But than the question becomes "Would they have dinner with him?" "And would you wittness to these ladies if you had the chance? Just a thought to provoke us to be soul conscious.
I think kim's heart is right to pray for them> ( Let pray they get saved) |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Well said, brother! I think that if we view these people as souls and not celebrities, our attitude would be different, and we would become more sensitive to their issues and problems. One thing I appreciate about you is this: if you were walking down Sunset Blvd. and saw anyone famous, I know you would share Christ with them just as fast as you would with anybody else. As a matter of fact, I think you would be evangelizing while other Christians are asking for an autograph! :) God bless you for your passion! |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Like I said in bible study, I too am guilty of talking and gossiping about celebrity mess. But here is the thing, I can one up you guys and get a little worse. Let’s take for instance Michael Vick and R. Kelly. R. Kelly is a genius in the studio and Michael Vick is hero for many young men aspiring to be “something from nothing”. Both have been and legal trouble recently and proclaimed that through the fire they have found God. When I should have rejoiced, I gave them the “yeah right, you just need mercy from the court and mercy from the fans.” I thought about this after bible study and realized that it doesn’t matter what I, you, or anyone else thinks. They only mercy that they need is from the Father. He can take dirtiest penny and make it shine like new. Both men need so much help, not only with their legal troubles but with their souls. I think he would have dinner with them in a heartbeat! And you never know, they may want to have dinner with him too! I mean, who else can futher your career like Christ! I don’t think God would hesitate in their quest for forgiveness. If they had no intention in coming to Christ, I think he would just persistently love them, just as he loved us before we came clean. God hates the sin, but continuously loves the sinner. By and through his love, patience, grace and mercy is how we all got saved. Let me tell you, I would be dead in a grave somewhere if God would have given up on me. The good news is through our diligent prayers we can help. There are some great “turnaround” stories. Look at DeeDee “Vanity” Michaels who uses her past as a testimony. Remember that song by Helen Baylor, where she said when she was lost in drugs and alcohol that she had a “praying grandmother”! Grandma prayed her through. I truly believe my grandmother in heaven prayed me through too! I’ve got my list on whom to pray for ready. The funny part is, when I was in the world, most of these people were my role-models. My how the blood washes us! |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Amen! I think when we get busy for the Kingdom, we'll notice that some of the people we reach out to are people we previously wanted to be like. As far as our response to their confessions of faith are concerned, we must remind ourselves that there are some people in our past who didn't believe us when we met Jesus, either! I think you're absloutely right, and it's not our place to judge whether or not someone has truly repented and accepted the Lord Jesus. That's up to someone else, and I guarantee, He doesn't read the National Enquirer. Very encouraging! |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Pastor Tim,
Did this ever happened to you? You could be anywhere, doing anything and all of a sudden the Holy Spirit tells you to call so and so, or pray for so and so right now. I have had so many of these experiences, more than I can count. One thing I learned, and I learned it the hard way was, when the Holy Spirit tells you to do something, it's best to just do it.
I said this to say, please tell your wife I said, God bless her for her obedience. It's not our job to "pre-qualify" any soul for the Kingdom. It is our responsibility to pray for them, pray that they might have a chance to eternal life.
Pastor Aminata |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Hey Tim,
I know I'm back trying to stress the point of repentance on you blog that wants to stress praying for celebirties. But I think it's important also. I know that you said, "most people that I talk to have no problem embracing the idea that Jesus would forgive them..." My reply, Yes, He most definately could, but according to the principals that Jesus laid out; it's after they repent, isn't it? This is what I think needs to be stressed. There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding forgivness, what do you teach, Tim? Do you stress repentence as our Lord said, or do you tell believers to forgive, no matter if the person repents or not?
Thanks, R... |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Hello All,
It has been a long time, but I was moved to say something about this blog.
I think that we are all missing an important point that Jesus made to the Pharisees when they questioned the disciples about him having dinner with the publicans and sinners?
9:11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 9:12 But when Jesus heard [that], he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Do I think that Jesus would have dinner with Britney and Lindsay?
I'd have to answer a resounding: YES! Jesus would have dinner with them. Why wouldn't he? First of all, Jesus is a gentlemen. He wouldn't force them to have dinner with him, but if invited He'd take the OPPORTUNITY to do His father's business.
Furthermore, Not to repeat what Evan. Wilson said, all have sinned and come short, so who are we to judge the sins of others. The Bibles warns that we should not judge, leave the judgment to the one qualified to do so.
7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Am I my brother's keeper? Yes, but I must first be without sin!
Secondly, what good would it have done for Jesus to just encamp himself around the Christian-folk only? Would he have been able to complete the task He came to complete, if He only came to visit the "well folk"?
I guess we shouldn't focus on what the media is saying, although it is hard to ignore, we should be like Sis. Kim, convicted that we, Christians, are not doing our jobs. We should be praying for them to come to the saving knowing of Christ. I do pray that they aren't taking by the waves of the world into the sea of endless sorrow. I hope that you all will pray for their salvation and repentence, and let Christ do the rest.
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Guilty. That's what I felt when I first read this. When I heard about R. Kelly I just shook my head, when I heard about Vick I just shook my head, when I heard about Lindsey I said, "It's a shame", and when I heard about Britney I said, "That's sad". Not once did I get on my knees or lift either of them up in prayer. All I can think about now is how many Christians treated me the same way when they saw me before Christ. Wow, I'm just like them. We get so focused on living the Christian life that sometimes we forget about our main priority and that's reconciling the lost to God through Christ. Sister Gina, Matthew 9:11-13 settles it for me; yes Christ would have dinner with Britney and Lindsey. As a matter of fact he's inviting them to dinner now, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."--Revelations 3:20. Does the Lord require repentance? Of course He does but Jesus also knew a lot about fishing and anyone who fishes knows that you first have to get the fish in the boat and then back to land and then you can clean them. Jesus stands at the door of the heart of every sinner and He knocks. He has never said, "Clean the house first and then I'll come in." No, He says open the door and let Me clean the house. Sinner's could care less about repentance but everyone knows about forgiveness. Our ability to first forgive someone who has wronged us is usually what attracts them to Christ in the first place. Has anyone ever asked you why did you take the high road when you could have easily fought back? Or why did you give up your spot in line when you were there first? That's all forgiveness is, you restoring someone who doesn't deserve to be restored. When Christ was on the cross He said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."--Luke 23:34. He didn't require repentance but He knew that the ones who were crucifying Him needed to be restored so the Father wouldn't take action against them for crucifying His Son. I pray that Britney and Lindsey will both repent and turn away from their sinful lives but first I pray for God's mercy on them and that He keep them in the land of the living so they can accept Christ. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."--John 3:17. Sorry if I wrote too much I just couldn't help myself. : ) |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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Wow! Brother Ben! Confirmation! I couldn't have said it better myself.
Thanks! |
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| September 13, 2007 |
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What a fantastic day of discussion! I've been waiting for the Lord to release me to elaborate on a few things, but it's been rewarding just reading so many of your comments. I think by the end of the day, many of you, including those who read my blog and spoke to me by phone, understood the point of today's blog. How can you reach people for Christ, if you're not even willing to carry their names on your heart in prayer? I do not endorse any type of "short-cut" theology, and I'm convinced that when we have the opportunity to speak, we should speak with the same boldness as John the Baptist. This is not about preaching a watered-down version of the Gospel, we must continue to tell this dying world to repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. The question I was hoping to pose in the blog wasn't really whether or not Jesus would have dinner with anyone. The Bible already teaches us that he would. It also never talked about who offer the invitation. The question I'm trying to move you to ask is, what would Jesus do at dinner? See, I believe that if we follow the example of Christ, we would be reaching out to them in whatever way we can, which for most of us, is through prayer. Having dinner with someone doesn't make them a Christian, but it can begin a conversation that will eventually lead to a turning point in their life. I am constantly encouraged by the work of Campus Crusade for Christ. As I watch them minister in the footsteps of one of God's most effective spokesmen, Dr. Bill Bright, I realize that they are touching so many lives because they understand that they must show the same kind of love and acceptance that Jesus exhibited over and over again. Much has been said about repentance, and I'm glad to hear it. I'm convinced that true repentance is not only important in establishing a relationship with Jesus Christ, it's a requirement. The problem comes when we apply our weak definition and try to pass it off as the real thing. It's not that our definition of repentance is wrong; it's just incomplete. True repentance is a complete turning away from sinful behavior, and it has far more to do with what you do than with what you say. It's not enough to say you're sorry, or even to feel sorry. There must be a turning in order for true repentance to take place. I'm thrilled that we have a place like MyChurch, where so many members of the body of Christ can come and share honestly. We have an unwavering mandate to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with the world, and to bring the lost into the ark of safety before it's too late. I just hope that we are actually reaching down into the waters of sin to pull men and women to safety, rather than sitting in the boat and criticizing those who are drowning. There's so much I want to say, and I can't right now, and I don't know why. I hope what I've said makes sense to you. |
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| September 14, 2007 |
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Interesting blog, Pastor Tim! Yes, we should certainly be praying for those who are so influential to our children's lives, and I do not regularly do so, except when something in the news especially lassos my soul. You've given us a good reminder.
Would Jesus have dinner with B and L? Imho (which is mere conjecture), I think the answer is yes, if they sincerely came seeking Him. However, unless their hearts were bent toward Him, I think He might be spending all His available dinners with those who are seeking, marginalized, and not cared for by His church. Those to whom we pay lip service "Yes, you are welcome here. We love everybody," but to whom we offer nothing but a Sunday morning building, because they are different from us or have no money or talents to offer the church. I think it is for these people that His heart breaks most. |
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| September 14, 2007 |
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Kathy, you are so right! Jesus was very clear about who we should be most concerned about: 25:41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 25:42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 25:44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 25:45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." I believe that we must be searching for ways to be a blessing to those you have spoken of, because the Word teaches us that it will be the true measure of our ministry. Thanks for sharing! |
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| September 14, 2007 |
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Ready for another angle? Hey maybe we can make this exhaustive until the Lord comes?
Pastor Aminata already mentioned that if we walk in the Spirit and are sensitive to His leading, He will direct how we are to pray... and for whom.
I totally agree with that... and I rely on it. Afterall, "the wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." In other words, not everyone is going to pray for them, because Not everyone will be lead by the Spirit to do so. * But it does bring up something else: trying to get everyone to jump onto my bandwagon when maybe the bandwagon I am invovled with... was only meant for me (question)? But what often happens? And No... I don't mean to imply that is what you or your wife have tried to do here, I'm only saying I have seen it go that way a few times. Example: One person gets the unction from the Lord (for them personally), to be involved... but then they run out and get a dozen others to make a vow to do it also, when God never called them to. Sometimes, I believe, God gives us Mission Impossible assignments; meant only for us. What do you think, true or false? R... R... |
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| September 14, 2007 |
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I remember years ago when I was fairly young in the ministry, a group of us was preparing to go out to do street ministry. We gathered together in prayer. After the prayer, one of the sisters said, she felt lead of the spirit to take off her lipstick. Problem? Not at all, that is until she suggested that I do the same. My reply to her was, the Holy Spirit said "you" not to confuse it with all of us. Well she wasn't happy about that, she felt all of us should do the same. In this case, none of the other sisters felt like she did. Yes, there are times when God does have an assignment that is meant just for that individual.
Another time after a church service, we was having lunch and a brother started sharing how convicted he was after hearing the sermon earlier that day. It was about robbing God. He said that his heart was so disturbed, because he knew he had been doing just that, robbing God inspite of being so blessed by him. You could see he was really convicted by it. He excused himself and went back to the church to talk to the pastor.
A week later, again after the service we went to get something to eat. This time, two other people thanked him for sharing. One person said to him, that because he was so open about his conviction that it made him (the other person) think and after going home and talking to his wife about it, they made a vow to be better stewards with God's money. Did the first young man, suggest that we all do what he did? No, he did not. This was about him. However, because he shared it with us, two other people realized that they could give more than what they had been giving. The second of the two people was me.
See that is the power of sharing our flaws, shortcomings, mistakes,etc. It really can help someone else. Remember you share, you speak.... and let the Holy Spirit do the convicting.
Just loving Jesus
Pastor Aminata
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| September 15, 2007 |
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Hey Pastor Aminata,
We are on the same page and yes I agree. What I don't like is when it becomes a guilt trip.
One will say, "I'm doing this! But YOU... you, are doing nothing."
This insisting that others do what we are doing when maybe God hasn't called them to that... is not good. We don't want people manufacturing the power of the Spirit for the work, we need His originality and authenticity, not manufactured.
I regress a little... and to any reader: I am not saying anyone here in this discussion is implying this, we are just talking it out from as many angles as possible just to share it. R... |
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| September 15, 2007 |
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Pastor Tim,
I have to tell you I have been thinking about commenting on this blog for days now. Finally, here I am. It is so exciting to see all the comments this blog has brought up.
I was a Britney and a Lindsey. Ok, well, lets get real, I wasn't as famous as them, but I experienced the same wreckless, selfish, self serving sin. I would re-live every single moment in that period of my life, cause it took each moment to get me here. Yes, I had praying people in my family and friends circles. Through the Grace of God, Jesus chose to have lunch with me, and FINALLY, I chose to accept. He knocked on the door of my heart, and I chose to repent, and follow Him.
Yes, Jesus came for the sick, not the well. I honestly believe if He was to do lunch, it would be with the Britney's and not so much with me. Although if I was blessed enough to be there, He would probably rebuke me like he did Martha. Becky, Becky don't you see?
There is so much sin in the world. Continually I am shocked by things I hear on the news. Complete debachery in our leaders, our celebraties, our families, our youth and our communities. I have to be reminded that a sin, is a sin, is a sin! What gives me so much hope is the criminal that was hanging on the cross with Jesus. In his last breathing moments, he chose to believe and accept Jesus as Lord and King. I know this is true for all of us. So, once again in Him I find hope for all nations.
I think later in a comment on this blog Pastor Tim writes about the point of prayer. My question to you is so how do we pray for them?
As for me, I think I will praise God for Britney just the way she is!
I know this sounds really crazy, but I have had to learn this lesson the hard way with my children, my teenagers....the reason I know God created some animals that eat their young.
I can pray and pray until my hands and knees are numb asking God to change people that are placed in my heart. I can ask Him to make them different, according to what I would like to see. But it seems that sometimes they just seem to keep going down the wrong path. It was like I knew what the people I was praying for needed more than God. Like I knew more than Him cause I was telling him how to fix them and when to fix them.
It wasn't until I started to thank God for my troubled teens just the way they are because it is GOD's beautiful story to write. I started to thank God for His perfect Will in them, even in their mistakes and struggles. I also asked God to change my reactions to them. Don't get me wrong, I did ask for God to convict them too. But then the real key for me was keeping the faith that He was going to do as he promised as we continued to go through another teenage struggle. His lessons have been very hard for them, (and me) but all these lessons keep drawing my teens (and me) closer to Him.
I have to believe that God uses what people see as bad, (a behavior, addiction, murder, torture, or total debachery) and turns it to good. I have to believe that people like Britney will get convicted, eventually, even if they keep going down the wrong path. And if they don't get convicted, their bad behavior might convict someone else.
Anyway, Thanks Pastor Tim and Kimberlee for the thought provoking blog. |
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| September 15, 2007 |
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Hey Becky, I know you wrote that per Pastor Tim, so I hope you don't mind, if I put in my two cents in regards to what you shared also? Here it is, my two cents on this open forum about Becky's thoughts and question, if the Spirit continually places someone on my mind, I don't say anything more to God but, "Lord, I lift them up to you and I hope somehow... they would turn to you for salvation. Amen." At other times there is the conviction from the Spirit to pray, "Lord, I ask in the name of Jesus that somehow... the imaginary peace and prosperity that this person thinks they have... would come crashing down around them. But not for their destruction Lord, but for their salvation. I pray that they would come to the end of their rope, sooner rather than later, so that they would seek your salvation and purpose for their lives. Amen, thank you."
And then... there is what Paul said regarding certain individuals, "this charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith, have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." I delivered them over to Satan so that they may learn not to blaspheme? Sometimes I think we can spend to much time and effort towards people, who may never ever are going to come to the Lord. Maybe people in our own families, who we would like to come more than the unknown dregs of society... but alas it just might not happen. Can we deal with that? I know no body likes this message, including myself, but it seems that is the way it is. And while we make someone more of our prayer concern than someone else... the fact is, God might be wanting us to keep at the work that He has next in store for us to be involved with. It's a scary thing to say to God, "Lord I present myself to you as a living sacrifice," because He probably will ask us to do just that sometimes.
P.S. Please don't think that I'm saying this toward anyone that you might be praying for (readers and Becky)... I'm just saying this seems to be a real possibility from the Bible. God is not going to overthrow peoples own ability to choose Him or reject Him... everyone must make their own decision, and receive their salvation themselves. R...
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| September 15, 2007 |
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I will admit that I have wondered more than a few times in the last few days exactly why I was moved to title this blog the way I did, especially when the content of it didn't exactly tackle the title head-on. Anyone who knows me knows that as a pastor and teacher, I don't seek to entice attention with "catchy phrases". I trust God to communicate His truth through me in whatever way He chooses, and I know that my job is to remain yielded to His purpose for me. He'll take care of everything else. So, I believe that my purpose on this blog was to spark a conversation that needed to take place among believers. I'm watching closely as new responses are added, and I'm encouraged by the fact that so many people have an opinion about this subject, and even about how I presented it. I hadn't spoken to Kim about that night in Bible Study since then, but last night, we were sitting in the office together after she put Faithe to bed, and I decided to ask her why she felt moved to mention Britney Spears. You have to know Kim to appreciate just how odd it is to hear that name escape her lips. Her tastes in TV don't vary. Outside of GOD TV and other religious programming, she gets about as secular as HGTV and Golden Girls, and that's it. Music doesn't very at all. It's KLOVE on the radio or Fred Hammond in the CD player. Whatever she knew about Britney Spears was hearsay at best. When I asked her about it, here was her answer: "When I was listening to everyone talking about her performance on television, everyone was laughing at her, and I kept trying to offer some kind of explanation for her. I just felt like someone needed to speak up and remind everyone that she is a person, and is probably going through a lot, and dealing with it in front of the whole world. Then, when I was taking the newspaper out to the recycling bin just before Bible Study, I saw a picture of her, I guess from that TV show, and she just looked lost to me. I saw someone who didn't know which way to go, and there were all these dancers around her, and I thought that it was probably the same way after the show is over. No direction, and everyone around her is just performing. I didn't think about her being famous or anything. I looked at her the same way I would look at anyone suffering with addiction and sin. Right before I dropped that paper, I realized that a lot of Christians are doing the same thing: Gawking and gazing at her, talking about her, and then throwing her away. I felt convicted by the thought that if I don't really pray for her when I know she's going through something, even if I don't know all the details, it's the same as watching starving children on TV and doing nothing when I could help. So, when you asked about prayer requests, I simply mentioned the person I was thinking about. It really wasn't about the fact that she's famous, as a matter of fact, I thought that her fame wasn't a good thing if she was going through so much. I just hope that someone close to her is sensitive enough to the Spirit to be able to tell her that Jesus doesn't care about anything she did before, if she's willing to give her heart and her life to Him, he'll give her joy in place of all that sadness." I'll leave it there for now. I'm sure I'll comment again soon, but for now, I'll let you think about her words, since she's really the one who started all this. :) ~ Pastor Tim |
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| September 17, 2007 |
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Wow! how amazing it is just after a week of this blog, yet another celeberty(O.J) is in the news! the second i heard this i thought of the comment kim made, i have got to admit as well as confess i was very judgmental at first until the Holy Spirit brought me back to my own words ( A soul is A Soul and all need to come to the knowledge of the truth!) now before any of you start saying he needs to " get right with God" let me say again i asked the Lord to forgive me for my reaction. but it did make me think about the way we look at people by looking at my own reaction and made me think of how when we sin what if God had the same reaction about us? anyway think about your reaction after you heard the news! Did it make you pray or did you react somewhat the same as i did? Just a thought! |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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Hey, I see a transistion in this blog available, so I'm going to add it. It's interesting that Evangelist has brought up OJ, because that gives me the oppurtunity to introduce you to... our "crazy, radical Pastor," and see how you would judge what he did. Our Pastor and a few members of the Church, went to an auction where they were selling off some of OJ's trophies and things. They went with an unction from God to burn the stuff on the Courthouse steps as a Godly witness against our Justice system and against OJ (we believe he should have been put to death). However, because of this, many many believers and Churches, now label him and the people that go to that Church as heretical. - But is it any different than the things that were happening in the Bible? Didn't God at times tell the Isrealites to destroy some of the other peoples stuff, even though it had value? Yes, and sometimes they didn't obey God, and instead they took and hid the stuff, and brought trouble on themselves (Joshua 7). This brings up a question, could we bring trouble on ourselves by keeping and doing stuff that should be destroyed? Also in this news report (attached below), someone says, "why couldn't they have taken the things and fed the poor or helped somebody out?" This isn't any different than what happened when the woman anointed the Lord (Mk. 14:4,5), they said the same thing. But obediance to the leading of the Spirit, no matter the cost, is what is important. News story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/281454.stm R... |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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Brother R., For some reason i knew you would surface again to this blog, i am not a great writter and i am going to try to chose my words carefully!
(O.J) was Acquitted! for the crime that he was accused of! i dont know if he did it or not, and unless you or any of the others who thinks he should have been put to death were there, i dont think it is for us to judge! ( Thats up to God, ) Further more in your words you said that the people who asked or gossiped ( showed some Immaturity) your words! dont you think that is a bit immature on your part? or did i read it wrong? Anayway as far as the trophies go, the only people who are buying them or burning them must think they are of some kind of value! but lets get back to the real deal.
All need to come to the knowldge of the truth and be saved! It is not our duty to burn the sin out of anyone or anything , But it is our duty to share Gods Word! i dont think Burning trophies on a court house step is showing anyone the Gosple of Jesus Christ! He said go and teach, not go and burn!
just like it is no use burning a cross outside of a house! " It dosn't teach anyone a thing it just shows us that we all need a Savior and his name is Jesus! Brother please dont think i'm implying anything i just thought "as Brothers and Sisters in Christ we can share and help on another grow. |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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I was all set to just allow this blog to continue, and maybe add a little something here or there, but what I read just now compelled me to speak. R, you talked about introducing your Pastor, and mentioned that you wanted to "see how we would judge what we did." First off, I won't do that. It's not my place to judge the actions of another. I do have a few questions that I hope will put that whole situation for me. Now, let me be clear, these are real questions, not rhetorical ones. I'm not asking them hoping to make a point in the asking, I'm asking so that I can maybe understand what had been done. Was this a part of any sort of outreach or anything? Was the Word of God shared with those who were present, to give a holy context to what was being done? Was prayer offered up in your church for OJ, the families of the victims or the court officers involved in the case while it was underway? Did it concern anyone that the British Broadcasting Company reported on the most sensational part of the demonstration, and not the part you where shared the love of God? I want to say again, I do not and will not stand in judgment, but I have to also assume that the story I've read is incomplete. ~Pastor Tim |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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Hey Evangelist and Tim, You both seem to hold a position that we are not to judge. Pastor Enyart would definately disagree with you, Jesus is being taken out of context; and we are the only ones on earth who can judge rightly. So that's for starters. Next, if you want more information, why not get it from him? You can call Pastor Bob, Monday - Friday at 3pm Mountain time @ 1-800-836-9278. He has a live call-in talk show program and I'm sure he would love to take your calls. You can listen on the internet while the show is on at kgov.com.
Afterall, if you think our Pastor, isn't doing the right thing, by teaching we should judge... and that he is misleading others, then why not contend with him (like Paul did), for the truth? And evangelist with all due respect... all I was doing was reporting the facts about what the Church did. I thought I'd insert it bacause maybe you guys and others on this site, didn't know about it. But, as far as this being compared to cross burning, I don't believe that. It has nothing to do with skin color or the lack of it, but rather the ungodliness in our Justice system. In fact that is what it has become, just-a-system. P.S. There are many paper reports about what Denver Bible Church did, but some of them are very condemning. Also, I just saw Britney's manager quit (9-18-07)... I hope they were talking about the devil. See... our prayers are working, the times they are a-changin.' R...
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| September 18, 2007 |
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Hello Brother R, I've been reading this blog for some time now. After reading your last response I'm just curious and would like to have your opinion on something. I know that you gave the contact number for your pastor's show but since you're the one representing his point of view then I would rather hear from his ambassador. Please, if you will, elaborate on this scripture and it's "true" meaning: "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."--Luke 6:37. Remember, this is Jesus talking and not one of the disciples. |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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| R, I think you misunderstood my questions. I tried to be as clear as possible by saying that these were honest questions, not veiled accusations. I did not say that I had an opinion about your Pastor or his teaching. I don't have enough information about either to say anything on that. I have no desire to contend with anyone about anything until I know exactly what they are doing. I would hope that you would agree that the story that you linked probably doesn't paint the complete picture of what happened, so I thought that you could fill in the blanks. If you're not willing to do that, that's okay. If all I've read is all there is, that's fine. Either way, I just want to understand it better, nothing more. |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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Thank you Ben, i thought of the same thing! but i am happy you asked. also R. when we get into "Theolgy" i think it is important to know that it is a study of God and of religious doctrine and matters of Divinity your pastor could be right as far as teaching goes! but it could be " You"! misunderstanding what he is saying. Remeber it is all going to end in what God says is right and wrong and what he say goes. THE BEST WAY TO FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS IS READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF AND ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WROTE IT TO GIVE YOU THE UNDERSTANDING. if you Pastor wants to help you ask him to join in. |
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| September 18, 2007 |
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Hey Ben, Tim and Evangelist,
Thanks for the continuing dialogue. Here are my replies:
Ben, no problem, but you should chat with him, he will challenge what you think. Anyway, he did for me, and I've been in many Churches since birth (literally), though I was truly born again in 1986 (age 29). But now... here is a question for you? If I take the time and write this all out, will you seek God about it, before you just reply? I know you and Evangelist think you can build a case, but let me put it this way... Pastor Bob, hasn't lost a fight on this subject yet. So, the challenge still stands, call him up and see if you can defend your position. and Ben, if you will keep an open mind and will examine what the word says and to whom it is speaking... this will make all the difference in the world.
So here goes, as fast as I can: Jesus only came to the lost sheep of the house of Isreal (proven by His own words), he did not come firstly to the Gentiles. We Gentiles were grafted into Christ after the ressurection. So, what you are quoting is before this happened and He was not saying these things to everyone, but to the Jews who were relying on the law. In fact, "forgive to be forgiven by your Father in Heaven," is all law... and it is totally to the Jews. We on the otherhand, were placed into Christ by grace, what God had done, not by what we had done. What we did was accept the free gift, but we didn't have to forgive anybody for God to forgive us.
Do you see the difference in the time, and in what is spoken? What was spoken before the Cross, versus after the ressurection? - While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us! We were, or could have been, very unforgiving... but God through Christ, accomplished the work of forgivness Himself. The Jews on the otherhand, were relying on the law, and Jesus was speaking to them directly, not to all people.
================ Hey Pastor Tim, My wife and I didn't attend DBC at the time that they did this with OJ's stuff. So when I read the BBC account, it sounded pretty clear, compared to the other things that I read. - As far as knowing all the intents and maybe other goings on, I don't know them, that's why I made the offer for you to call him. By the way, what is your belief on Judging, or would you rather not say? ============== Hey Evangelist, Words have meanings and I know that you know that. I think we can know what some of the things in the Bible mean. And when I read the apostle Paul, he seems to make it an important business to defend and contend for the right meanings of those words. Today however, many people say, "oh we can't fully understand what God meant, so lets' just do what feels right." This in turn, puts a different denomination on every corner, while all the unbelievers wonder why. Answer: because no one wants to contend and defend for the truth anymore, just believe whatever you want, without hardly an argument. Regardless, we can go back and forth for a long time and get tired fingers and wrists, but if you would call Pastor Bob (since he's more of an expert at it, than I am), he might be able to explain better his actions with OJ's stuff and his beliefs on judging others. Bless all of you, R...
P.S. Right now Pastor Bob is talking to a doctor on abortion and it is a taped program. That happens sometimes, so today you couldn't call in... even if you wanted to. |
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| September 19, 2007 |
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| I regret Pastor Tim I haven't read this blog for a while. I didn't realize it had really gotten so crazy. I also didn't realize there was so much hate out there in the Christian community. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but when I was reading this my mind actually went to the burning of crosses like Evangelist that was done in the name of God. My mind also went to the bombing of abortion clinics, in the name of God. Because I am a soldier’s wife, and a soldiers step mom, I get e-mails that try and support the military who fight for our freedoms to worship how we please. One I received had pictures of a war protester holding a sign thanking God for bombs, and dead soldiers. Another had the date 9/11 with the saying God’s wrath written across it. Course that email also had a picture of a soldier carrying off another dead soldier who fought for these people to wear their anti war t-shirts. What exactly is the message, in the name of God, is this church in these pictures is trying to send out to the world? I clearly see a hateful wrathful God, not a loving God who sent His only Son to die for our sins so we could be in heaven with him. My mind then went to spending $16K on easy-to-read bibles. Bibles that stressed the loving God I know. Forgive me Lord, I probably should have prayed first before responding like that, because I was sinning all over the place in my mind with anger. I just felt the need to share what those words provoked in my mind. It scares me what people are saying and doing in the name of God. It scares me because it chases away the people who need it the sick the lost, the Brittney’s, Lindseys, OJs, and ME. I thought all sinners had the right to ask for forgiveness even up until their dying breath, just like the sinner who hung on the cross with Jesus. Jesus told him, he would be in heaven with Him, because He believed. I don’t attend Pastor Tim’s growing church, but I know that Ben is a member of his church. So I think I could actually assume what Tim’s view is on Judging is if I read what Ben wrote, WHICH WERE THE WORDS OF JESUS! Words that came straight out of the bible. I know that if I hadn’t of found the LOVE of Jesus and instead of the HATE and judging I have heard from some Christians and churches. They tried to preach the love of Jesus then in the same breath preach the condemnation which was only Gods right. That judging condemnation that came out of their mouths made me doubt salvation and whether I would ever be forgiven for my sins. I NEVER would have turned my will and life over to the care of JESUS if I only heard judging and condemnation. I can’t get stuck in the Judging because the bible tells me that God is the only one who can Judge. Every time I tried to read the bible or attend the church before I became saved, all I would hear is was the judgement and his wrath, then I just ran further away from God into my sin. Yeah I visited a clinic. I know if I was to see a church that was judging and condemning before I was saved, I would be thinking YEAH RIGHT GOD IS NEVER GOING TO ACCEPT ME AND FORGIVE MY SIN. On my drive to work, I once saw a marquee in front of a church that stated, “Ask the aborted babies, who the real terrorists are?” I was so angry I called the church up and told them that if I was still a lost soul, I would run as far away from the church as I could after reading that message, because the message I was receiving from that church was not only was I a murderer, but I was a terrorist too in the same category as Al Queda, a really radical religion. The next week they changed it to say something like, “Ask the aborted babies, if the people performing the abortions are terrorists.” I couldn’t believe it. They were trying to clarify on their judgement of sin. I thought Jesus came for all sinners, from those to tell a little lie to those that commit murder, there isn’t a degree to what sin is worse in God’s eyes. Would I still be a sinner that your church would judge me and condem me? |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Hey Becky,
Do you know why people there (in the situation you site), and people here (in Denver CO), use such shocking signs? - Because by the time the cars roll into the parking lot at planned parenthood (abortion clinic), and they go inside... it is literally a matter of seconds.
I use to feel the same way as you. Why use these ugly signs with shocking statements? Answer: because there is no time to get into discussions with them, so some choose shocking signs to grab at their conscience. If it gets through, some choose not to abort.
So far this year in Denver, 50 women changed their minds, because of the Churches witness. We are not being unkind or unchristlike. This is warfare. They are really going to murder their unborn. You don't go into battle with a water pistol. The signs have proven to be effective. But it is not for everyone. You do get flipped off, cussed at and sometimes even spit on. It is at the gates of hell, after all.
But to answer your question, "does God forgive the person who repents and asks for His forgivness, for doing such a thing? Absolutely, and so do we, but they must repent. Sorry, forgive me, works everytime... right up until our dying day. Thank you Lord for your mercy and grace. R...
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| September 20, 2007 |
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P.S. I noticed one other thing, very few abortion clinics have ever been blown up by some nut case who believed that they were doing God's will. While on the otherhand, many women have changed their minds and many lives have been saved. - Yet, people seem to ignore that. Instead they magnify the negative and ignore the positive, because it's just... to in-your-face kind of combat. - my morning rant. R...
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Hello R, So, if Jesus was speaking only to the Jews-according to your words-in Matthew, Mark, and Luke then are you saying that we shouldn't pay attention? I'm asking this because if what you said is true then we could take parts of what He said and decide to obey them and other parts and decide to not obey them. Also, forgive and you will be forgiven was not part of the law. The law told the Jews to kill the sinner. Many times in the law we see that a sinner should be stoned or thrown out. When Jesus showed up on the scene He established the period of grace and this is partly why what He was saying made the Jews so mad. He challenged everything that they thought was correct. So actually by saying that we should judge those who are outside of the church you and your pastor have reverted back to the law and advocating law not grace.
I see how you are using the time period as part of your point so, let me ask your opinion on this verse: "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges."--1 Corinthians 5:12-13. This was written by Paul after the resurrection of the Lord. |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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So, If you are getting flipped off and making people angry, then are you sinning? I mean you are causing me to get angry and sin. I have had to go ask the Father for forgiveness for my thoughts these last two days.
I mean is the church cause worth looking like a hypocryte to others when you judge and condemn sinners. Don't you think that the agnostic would look at that as craziness? and don't you think they may turn from God because of that? I mean so you saved 50 people from having abortions, How many people did you turn away from knowing the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior because of radical behavior
I would rather hear the statistics of the pregnancy help centers that are Christ filled and try to send those women to a church that was full of the Holy Spirit. I would imagine those would be just as high without causing others to sin.
I am not very good about quoting versus (I guess I need to work on memorization) but I have two questions:
Doesn't the Bible say it is better to wear a millstone around your neck than to cause some one else to sin?
Also, doesn't the Bible say you need to go to those you have sinned against and ask for forgiveness before you bring your gifts up to the Lord or they wont be seen as holy?
Someone help me out with some scripture here. These are what are popping up in my mind and thoughts. I am trying so hard to learn how to be obedient in the Lord, and this is making me question my own actions, not just a denomination in Denver.
Just a Jesus Freak,
Becky |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Here you go Becky, "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."--Matthew 5:21-24. |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Also, Becky, I love the way you have based your response on scripture. Too many Christians respond according to what they heard their pastor or another pastor say. Eventhough you may not know where to find the scripture (and that will come with time and study) at least you have a scriptual foundation. We must remember that God has the last say and let God be true but every man a liar. (Romans 3:4). |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Hey Becky,
I think we should talk about this in private, people don't need to be reading all this conflict. Some people want the thing to stay on the blog topic, not to be caught up into all this other stuff. I know I am largely to blame for it, but when I have the conviction that these things cannot be discussed without more tempers. I'm exiting out of here. So, if you want to take it up behind the scenes, I am willing to do that (for a little while), because I am kind of growing tired of it.
Bless you regardless, R... Nobody is forcing anybody to believe what I believe, I have the conviction from the Lord that the way I read His word |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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| true. i still have a lot to learn about prayer and God's heart for the world. i always think about the poor people and people in war, but celebrities never feature in my prayers... grow, grow, grow... |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Oh R,
I am so sorry, I didn't mean to come across nasty. I was learning so much through this conflict, and I was trying to excersise what I had learned through reading, listening to the bible on cd and hearing messages from the bible from pastors and friends. I like you as you say, "I have the conviction from the Lord that the way I read His word. " I hope I am speaking the Truth, that is why I asked someone else to help me with scripture, and so graceously Ben did so. Please forgive me if I offended you or made you angry. I did not mean to.
Although I have to decline taking this up behind the scenes. Like you saw before, I don't have the armour of the word put on completely to be able to have a conversation like this without my friends who are on Pastor Tims web page. So I have to decline. Please forgive me for that too
But I have to thank you for the debate, I learned a lot from you and the teachings of your pastor.
Joyously in Jesus
Becky |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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| Okay. I’ve gotten more than a few messages from people asking me if was going to respond to all of the activity. Just to be clear, there is a specific reason why I’ve not responded to specific questions asked of me. It’s not that I don’t have an opinion, and it’s not that I can’t express it clearly. I just know in my heart that I’m not supposed to be a part of this discussion. I do, however, want to say something to each of you according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. By the way, every personal message in my inbox will be returned as well. God is not the author of confusion, and the Spirit of God is intelligent. So let me be clear: I will not speak against any work that has truly been done in the name of Jesus. Whether or not I agree with the tactics of any church is irrelevant. The Bible orders us to “test the spirits, to see whether they be from God.” I simply am not close enough to R’s church or pastor to speak with any sacred authority. While I do have opinions about a lot of what I’ve read, it’s simply improper to speak until I know that people I speak against are ill-intentioned. Some of you may think that what I’m saying is some sort of cop-out, but I assure you that it would be much easier to give in to my impulses. The challenge that God has placed before me regarding this situation is quite simple: be silent until He tells me to speak, and when I do, say only what He gives me. I am not critical of any of you who have posted, and I agree with a lot of what I’ve read. It simply appears that right now, I’m supposed to be writing in the sand, while the debate goes on. I have heard a number of what I truly believe to be significant differences in interpretation, but the object of our worship and devotion must be the same. I certainly hope that no one has been injured in any way by the dialogue that has taken place. Any time Christians disagree about these matters, it is bound to be an emotional discussion, because we are all passionate about our work for the Kingdom, even if we disagree on how best to accomplish it. When we feel a certain way, I believe that it is healthy to have an honest dialogue about it, but we must be careful to avoid “friendly fire” scenarios. As much as we are called to spiritual warfare, the war must be waged in the proper arenas, within the proper context, and against the proper enemy. The differences we have as Christians should unite us, not divide us. We have a common enemy, and we must work together to defeat him and establish God’s Kingdom here on Earth. There is a time for boldness, and there is a time for compassion. My prayer is that in some small way, you have all taken one step closer to the divine balance that God has created us to experience. I hope you’ll continue to read my blogs, though I’m sure that they won’t all be this…interesting. :) God bless each of you, and let’s work together to hold up the Light in whatever way we can. |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Thank you Pastor For clearing that Up! This is why you are my Pastor.WE think a lot alike and you use your God given Wisdom to know when and how to speak, i myself stoped replying after awhile for this very same reason, i agree with you all the way. I have prayed about this hole thing and have my convictions and you know i am a fighter of the Faith.
To all who read this i want to say this is one of the Thing that i try to teach in Soulwinng,
"When you are doing one on one Soul winning you have to know what you know what you know and you have to stick to what the LORD has lead you to say! People will Challenge you and if you dont know you will fall for anything"! Be Blessed and dont stop Bloging! |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Dear Everyone involved in this debate,
I'm reading this blog and I am in awe of the hatred in the christian community these days, I always learned that, who are you to judge, and you only get judged by one in the end.
This brings me to my point, Pastor Tim, wrote a very interesting blog about people judging stars like Britney and Lindsey, Yes, they are constantly judged by the public, but remember they also chose that route in their life. I think that we should pray for stars like Britney and Lindsey and others.. Not praying that they will soon publicly repent or anything. WE NEED TO PRAY THAT THEIR EYES ARE OPENED TO THE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS OF GOD. Past that point, I think its gets to far, I think there is a certain amount that you can do for a person, and you can only pray so much. I can honestly say that I don't keep up with the tabloids, but every now and again, I hear something major like someone shaving their head hair off, but nothing to extreme.
Another note: Also always remember that things in the press are also very exaggerated, not every star in Hollywood has an eating disorder and does crack, get a grip.
Oh and Becky, "Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse." -Romans 12:14 and do you remember this, and this message.. "IF IT IS POSSIBLE, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
God Bless All |
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| September 20, 2007 |
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Sorry, folks, as a mom I have to publically tell her this.
Out of the mouth of babes.....
You make me so proud Jennifer, you are really getting it.
Keep drawing closer to Him, and He will draw closer to you.
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| September 20, 2007 |
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| When my wife told me that I needed to read this blog, I was a little taken back. I did follow the logic of each and every person. I truly believe that everyone believes that their convictions are correct. The first thing I thing that comes to my mind is: John 15 (NIV) 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. Are we trying to produce fruit apart from the vine in out actions? (Burning OJ material, praying for celebrities, etc.) I did not see anything in the blog about seeking God’s will in all of this. Clearly God has a plan, and sometimes the answer is ‘no’ to our prayers, and ‘no’ to our actions. Do we go on and do it anyways because we think we know what God is calling us to do. I would say that in every circumstance, it is God’s will we should seek first. Clearly God has a plan for everyone and everything, and all of it will work out for his glory. There are times when we desire an outcome to something when God has a different plan. I am not going to go into depth on this one, because it brings up a whole other topic, but clearly from the passage below, we know that our ‘all knowing God’ knows the outcome of everything, yet still lets the unbeliever and the believer live together. Romans 9 (NIV) 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? God has a purpose for them, granted, we are not privy to this knowledge and our command is to go into the world and preach the ‘Good news’, but I always think back to John 15:4-5. Do we go door to door and beat everyone over the head with the gospel? I think not! We always must seek the will of God in everything we do, and let that be our guide in all things. We might just get a ‘no’ to our prayers about someone’s eyes being opened. In fact, I know that we have been getting a ‘no’ to our prayers about Britney and Lindsay. I have not seen anything on the news lately about their repentance and salvation. So I would ask then, are we trying to produce fruit apart from the vine? Shouldn’t we instead pray all of this and then preface it with ‘according to your will and not ours’. This is just my 2 cents. Matthew 6:10 (Lords Prayer) … Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. |
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