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| Why Do We Have To Disagree? |
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I was going to write about an entirely different topic today, until I read Mike's blog here...A new perspective on the log in my eye Now, I have to take this in a whole different direction because it is what I feel led to do.
There have been a couple of blogs that I have written, that apparently have hit a sore note with some people on MyChurch. Either they don't agree with something I have written, or they don't agree with something someone else has written. People have gotten upset and mad and said things they ought not to, in my humble opinion. I have, on a couple of occasions had to delete a comment or two from one of my blogs, and I really hate to do that, but when it hurts someone else or is said to point a finger at someone, I feel I have no choice. Then people take offense at that...I guess we all have to have thick skin if we want to write blogs or respond to them. :)
I really don't think it needs to be this way. We are all different. We all have different opinions. For every person that reads the bible, there is a different perspective on interpreting it. Some see things in black and white, some see things in shades of grey. Some want others to see things their way, no matter what. Others don't care how you look at things as long as you believe in Christ and that He died for us.
I guess I place myself in the latter category. As long as we believe Jesus was sent and died for our sins, and we have accepted Him as our Lord and Savior, everything else pales in comparison. Does it really matter if there are different levels of Heaven or Hell? Does it really matter if there are different levels of punishment for different levels of sin? Does it really matter if instruments are played in church or not? Does it really matter if we have a contemporary worship service or a traditional worship service? Does it really matter if we sing hymns or contemporary songs? Does it really matter what translation of the bible we read from?
I could go on and on and on, but you get the idea. Why do we so quickly take offense at things when someone doesn't agree with us? I am lumping myself into that category, because of course, I am guilty of it, just as everyone else is. I think my point of view is RIGHT. And that is how most every other individual feels. But, I don't think it is worth losing friendships to get upset over something that really isn't that important in the big picture. When we get to heaven, will we walk on by each other because we disagreed about something inane in this life? (Will we even get to heaven if we disagree?)
Don't jump on me now because I think that all things are unimportant, when some have a valuable argument for what they believe in and the passion with which they believe. I have respect for everyone's passions. One of mine is music, and I wish that everyone else had a passion for it like I do, but it simply is not the case. All of your beliefs and passions are important. But it is not worth it if you are not spreading the love of Jesus. If you are fighting with another Christian over a differing opinion, then you are sreading the hate of the devil. You are giving him the opportunity to come in and tear down. And personally, I don't think the Lord will think too much of that.
I have to examine my own behavior as well. I try not to say things on here that might offend, or hurt someone else. But sometimes what I think is ok behavior, might not be considered as such in someone else's opinion. My goal is always to work out differences, but there are going to be times that won't be possible because someone else won't consider it. That is when writing blogs becomes a chore, because I want to help someone somewhere find an answer, and maybe, just maybe I have an answer that someone needs...but then I start thinking about offending someone, or writing something that someone else doesn't agree with and then they get upset...it just makes it hard to do another one of my passions, which is writing...so why do we all have to disagree, anyway? Can't we just agree that we love Jesus, and we don't know all the answers and won't know them until we get to Heaven? I am always open to hearing someone's opinion even though it might not meld with mine. I don't have all the answers, and neither does anyone else. But maybe if we all work together, we can come up with a few of the answers? AT the very least we should be able to "encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing." 1Thess 5:11
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Haven't you heard Deb? There are two topics you just dont get into. Politics and religion! LOL.
Your point is as I stated in Mikes blog. I just pick what blogs I let in a little better now that I have seen how they can end up. For me, my time is precious, and I dont want to waste it. I think alot of times we end up wasting time on prooving points. This is not beinbg a good steward of time in my opinion. If we are sensitive to the Holy Spirit, we might not say some of the things our flesh wants to say. I personally know someone who got steaming mad over a blog. I mean red faced angry! This is silly. Its hard enough getting along at home on a regular bases! Sometimes, I will feel led by the Spirit to comfort and direct someone, just to have another person come behind me and not support it. This is working against each other and not together. I dont know if we can ever eliminate our desires to debate, but atleast we can work on it. I like what Dr. Thomas said. He said we should only get involved in what the Holy Spirit leads us to. If it is the Holy Spirit, it will produce the fruit in the lives of the readers it was intended to.
Simply said,
Shannon |
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| Hi Deb, Excellent point here. So why do we have to disagree? In my own opinion, I think disagreement is necessary. Yep, that's what I said, necessary. God designed it so, that every now and again we will disagree with someone, with each other. This is to let us know, that our thoughts, experiences, perspectives are limited. To let us know that none of us have all the answers, and to let us know that this is a way to learn from each other. Disagreement challenges us to be open, listen at another person's point of view and learn. God knew what He was doing went he made us different. To see the bigger picture is not to see our big picture but His (God's) big picture. Yet, many of us forget that we see through a glass darkly. Now let me say this, disagreeing does not give license for being disagreeable in your disagreeing. Where is the Christ is that? Most people know what WWJD means, but what about HWJR? How Would Jesus Respond? You said, "All of your beliefs and passions are important. But it is not worth it if you are not spreading the love of Jesus." Ah this is where the knife slices the butter, it's not the disagreeing that is the hindrance, it's the fact that many think that their answer is THE answer. No one has The answer to anything, no one this is, but Christ. Anyone that thinks otherwise, well, I call that SOS. Stuck On Stupid. Keep writing Deb. Pastor Aminata |
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| Good Point Pastor Aminata! |
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John 17:20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
This here is one of the last prayers Jesus prayed before he ascended up into heaven. So it must be purty important for us to all be in unity. Great blog Deb! |
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| Dont know what got your gurad up but The word (JESUS)says "as they did to me they shall to you and more so" so if getting your fellings hurts for doing good get used to it. I have been hurt more by "Church Folk" than I ever thought possible I expect it from siners, ateists, ect .but The Church catches me off guard and it's more so for the love I try to show. Love and peace comfort you my friend and God Strengthen you Amen |
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Well, Deb, a disagreement I had on here was probably one of the ones you referred to...but the same thing you said here is what solved it. The details aren't important - what is important is that Jesus died for us, and if we TRUST in Him and repent, we'll get all those answers one day!!! But, much like a response I just gave to another post, we're still human - imperfect and flawed, and stuck in a mortal, flawed body with an imperfect mind - we're not gonna be able to see around the 'log' in our 'eye of experience and opinion' until we let the Holy Spirit help us do more through submitting to God's will. That's a tall order, and I feel it's out duty once we're saved...to refine ourselves to best serve the Glory of God, and NOT get bogged down in these details. |
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I honestly think that a lot has to do with how one chooses the words they say. I can completely disagree with you on a subject, but if I see you as one created in His image, then it is hard for me to be nasty or talk down to you. I have my passions, too, and sometimes my excitement is taken for anger in the typed words. It happens. However, there have been many times I write comments, read them, read them again, then delete them simply because there is a chance someone can read them wrong. Our intent should always be to build up and not tear down...then again, if we all were able to do that, there wouldn't be divorce in the church, would there.
Deb, keep fighting the good fight. Keep setting the higher standard. It is worth it. |
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JessIAm |
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September 14, 2007 at 2:37pm |
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Here's my goal (and I know I'm far from it). I'm trying to disagree, without being disagreeable.
Romans 14:1-3 Amplified
1 AS FOR the man who is a weak believer, welcome him [into your fellowship], but not to criticize his opinions or pass judgment on his scruples or perplex him with discussions.
2 One [man's faith permits him to] believe he may eat anything, while a weaker one [limits his] eating to vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats look down on or despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains criticize and pass judgment on him who eats; for God has accepted and welcomed him. |
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| One statement that has helped we when dealing with this issue was made by St. Augustine. He said, "In essentials unity, in nonessentials liberty, in all things charity." I believe this is a great creed to live by. As evangelicals, we believe that such things as the virgin birth, inerrancy of Scripture, deity of Christ, etc. are all essentials that Christians everywhere must agree on. However, there are many more nonessentials that some deem to be essentials that are really not. Such things as sprinkling or dunking when baptizing or whether the spiritual gifts are operative today are not essentials. Augustine says it is ok to have a diversity of opinions in these areas. However, whether they are essentials or nonessentials, do everything in a spirit of love. I, like you have gotten some mean spirited posts. I have learned a kind answer turns away wrath and I know you have too. Blessings, Pastor Tim |
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"A gentle word turns away wrath." I'll hang my hat on that one! And how about "Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." You can disagree all day long, but as long as your words are chosen wisely, following the leading of the gentle Spirit of love, unity never has to be forsaken. People will disagree on everything from now until Jesus returns, and if I decided to speak only to folks who agree with me I'd be a loner! But thank God for the Spirit at work in my life, seasoning my words (most of the time?) and using them for good.
Deb, this was one of my favorite blogs that I read today. And it was your PASSION which really made this an enjoyable read. Thanks for choosing to share with US, blessed sister! ~mike |
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Sue |
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September 14, 2007 at 10:25pm |
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| I read the post, but not the comments. I will read them later. I do feel that discussion is a very good thing. But disagreeing, just for the sake of argument, is from the evil one. I see some on here that seem to disagree with just about everything everyone writes. I have even seen it on post where I couldn't see how any christian could possibly disagree. So I definitely see your point Deb. But I also think that some have a tendency to bunch together what is good with what is evil. I believe God meant discussion for the good, but just like anything else, the enemy comes along and tries to create evil. I hear some Christians don't even want to discuss topics at all because of the few "wolves among the sheep." And I think it would be a sad day if we ever hindered the possibility of learning from one another, just because there are a few "bad apples" on the tree. May we continue to discuss His Word to grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord. |
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Deb |
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September 15, 2007 at 6:50am |
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Shannon, I seem to remember hearing that we shouldn't talk about politics and religion...I guess I just don't listen very well. lol You make a lot of good points in what you said. Especially the part that Dr. Thomas said... "I like what Dr. Thomas said. He said we should only get involved in what the Holy Spirit leads us to. If it is the Holy Spirit, it will produce the fruit in the lives of the readers it was intended to". I usually write what I feel the Holy Spirit is wanting me to write, so I guess it will bring something to someone somewhere...even if it does upset someone else along the way.
Pastor Aminata, well said...you make a good point in that we have to have disagreement among us. I guess it is more what we do with that disagreement that makes the difference. If we allow it to divide, then it is not worth it. If we allow it to cause us to think and grow, then it is worthwhile.
MulletPreacher, Great quote from the good book.
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Deb |
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September 15, 2007 at 6:57am |
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Valerie, what you say is sad but true. I think that the church oftentimes has more rifts between individuals and groups than the non-churched have. It is sad, but it is something that we will all go through at one time or another.
GrowingInFaith, well said. We are all "works in progress", and we won't ever all get along in this life, at least not 100% of the time. But if we let the Holy Spirit lead us and do what the Lord wills, and think before we open our mouths, then maybe, just maybe, we can do a better job. Thanks for your comments.
DC, I respect what you write, and it seems to me that you what you have to say is always an encouraging word, at least in the posts that I have read. If we keep in mind that we are always to "build up" and not "tear down" we will be doing good. |
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Deb |
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September 15, 2007 at 7:08am |
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Jess, some of what prompted this blog is something that happened between you and someone else...(you probably figured that out). I like to write blogs that make people think, but sometimes I guess perhaps I don't consider all the different views that people might take on a subject. Then when conflict comes between two people, I become a referee, and I don't like being a referee. lol Anway, I understand where you are coming from, and I hope you keep reading and commenting, and that you will learn more with each blog you read!
Pastor Tim, yes, I have learned that a kind answer turns away wrath. I have responded in anger a few times, and it doesn't really get me anywhere. However, sometimes even responding in kindness sometimes turns a few away, since I may not agree with what they are saying and they still take offense at that. But, if I have acted in a spirit of love, then I have no guilt in that.
Mike, thank you for your kind words. Many of the blogs you have written I have learned something from, especially in the way you respond to others. You seem to have it down to a science on how to handle the posts of others, whether they agree or disagree with what you have said. You have been a great encouragement to me, and I thank you.
Sue, I agree completely with what you said! Discussion amongst us is good, and helps to promote learning. There do seem to be the few that will disagree with everything. Maybe that is just their way, and we can learn from that as well. I for one, enjoy hearing all the different thoughts on a subject, even the ones that don't agree...but it is the way it is said that really gets my goat. lol Thanks for sharing. |
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R |
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September 15, 2007 at 7:37am |
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Hey Deb,
I've only read your topic, I don't have enough time to read all the replies... but here is my two cents on it.
First, this is a complex subject, and it seems to me the body of Christ (including myself), needs some diversity training. An armpit, is as necessary as a heart... and we all need a refresher course on this, maybe once a week?
Oh, we like the presentable parts of the body, the ones that are always saying, "peace and love,"
while on the otherhand, we are not to found of the people who call what a certain person did... an
act of the Devil (as Jesus said to Peter). No, we don't want to hang around people like that... they are hated and not very popular with the Christian majority. Case in point: Here in Denver, is a Pastor who will not back down from confronting ministers who
are not squarely doing and teaching the things that are true. From this... he is greatly shunned, and so is anyone who attends or is connected to his Church (my wife and I are included). Also... this Pastor has a conviction that people should beg and plead with people going into Planned Parenthood to kill thier unborn children. To stand outside those places, and pray and plead that the parents not abort their babies. And for this, do you know what has happened to some of the people who have sided with our Pastor?
They have been asked to leave other Churches because they tried to hand out bumper stickers that said, "abortion is murder." Yes, I for one need to learn the hard lessons of diversity in the body of Christ, no doubt about it.
R...
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| Thanks Deb...and, oh, by the way...keep posting. Your posts are great and they always give me something to think about. People will always disagree. Some people are never wrong. They still need to hear the truth, though, and so do I. |
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Deb as it relates to the point of "our opinions" (of which I agree with you), each of us have one, some choose to share it, others do not, either way it's ok. I always teach that "you better know what you know, because what you think you know is surely to be challenged, and if you don't really know what you know, then you won't know that you don't know it, and therefore can't stand upon what you thought you knew."
Pastor Aminata (Now try saying it 3 times fast) lol |
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Deb |
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September 16, 2007 at 11:18am |
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R, As I have always heard said, there are always two sides to every story. Yet, sometimes to us, we only see our side of the story. And naturally, we think we are right. Something so radical as abortion... I for one, cannot understand how people can do that, and not see that it is wrong. Or if they do see it, they don't care. They may have a change of heart later on, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt. But in that subject, everything is black and white for me. It's hard to imagine someone in a gray area on that subject. I guess we all have learned lessons of the diversity in Christ. Thanks for sharing your comments.
ca_flickerfly, you said...We should be learning from eachother not completely disagreeing...Now that is a thought! A very profound thought! Why not try to learn something from someone else instead of getting in an argument? I like that comment. Thanks!!!
DC, I will keep posting...and I am glad that my posts make you think. This is a learning experience for me, and I am enjoying it. Even when people disagree....
Pastor Aminata, Whew, that is a mouthful! All I can say is that I know I know what I know, but I am not sure about what I don't know. :) |
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KitKat |
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September 16, 2007 at 11:39pm |
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Hi Deb,
Your honest approach to a historical debate is very refreshing. I have often said the same thing and that’s after attending a Bible College to better understand God’s Word. Our ability to find such vast differences of opinion within scriptures further demonstrates the genius of who God is. Only God could present himself in such a way that even a child could understand his kingdom principles but theologians could expound for centuries on the differences in their interpretation. LOL
How can a complex God become simple? God becomes a simple understandable truth when we see him through the eyes of love. Love never fails. 1 Cor 13:4-7 tells us “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. (NIV) In summary the writer says Love never fails, but it doesn’t say love never disagrees. We are biblically permitted to disagree - and there are vast examples of disagreement found within the Bible. Look at Acts 15 where Paul and Barnabas came into such stark disagreement they chose different companions and went their separate ways. Yet their division brought about good.
This blows my mind - sometimes God uses division to enable multiplication. When I homeschooled our two daughters I taught them how to multiple and divide at the same time because the facts are interchangeable. The working of God can not be mathematically defined confined, or refined. If all we did as Christians was divide, the kingdom of God would suffer harm, but God does not apply the law of mathematics when his people divide over certain matters. I believe if evil seeded rebellion causes the division, then division is all there will be, but if the division is caused by God separating us like a gardener separates flower bulbs in the fall, so they can have more room to bloom and multiply, then the division will bring forth multiplication.
In the garden of Eden we were given specific instructions to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. Because of the fall our very existence as human beings depends on a sexual act that gratifies us through imposition. We impose on our spouse (our covenant partner and God's choice for reproduction) to fulfill our needs and in exchange we agree to meet our spouse's needs as well (in a healthy relationship). This is very edgy to speak of but my point is this, many of us impose our opinions on others simply in an attempt to meet our need of being understood and if we are all honest, we speak up also in an attempt to understand ourselves. I don’t think this is always a negative thing – it can be very healthy. To sum my viewpoint, I believe arguing outside of God’s covenant is unfruitful. That is why I believe debate with a non-Christian is, for the most part, unwholesome. If we argue just to hear ourselves speak, and to make a show of ourselves - then we are like a woman who gratifies herself outside of marriage - we are in sin. If through comparison and debate within the body of Christ we produce understanding, wisdom, and acceptance then this is a healthy discourse and ordained by God. Blessings from a “COULD BE THEOLOGIAN” but instead chose to be a ‘SIMPLE CHILD OF GOD” Kathy Nicholson |
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I dont think you should be worried because some body disagree with you ,I believe you have to stick to what you believ that is very important.Will you say u are not going to go to church on sunday because it will offend a moslem who is a nieghbour?
NO PLEASE AS LONG AS IT GLORIFY THE LORD AND IT WILL HELP THE BODY OF CHRIST U HAVE TO STICK TO IT. |
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My dad always use to say this to us kids: "If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you"
(just thought I'd add some humor :)) |
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Deb |
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September 17, 2007 at 1:35pm |
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Kathy, great insight and thoughts. I agree that some disagreement among Christians can lead to growth, and can be a healthy way to learn. If our minds are open to seeing another's viewpoint, we just might be able to discover something we didn't know. I appreciate your thoughts.
Pastorrich, great advice. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me, but when someone gets difficult then I have a problem...still, like you said, as long as I am glorifying the Lord, I have nothing to be ashamed of. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. |
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Deb |
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September 17, 2007 at 1:37pm |
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| Lisa, my dad used to say that too :) |
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