JessIAm
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||September 24, 2007 at 4:56pm|email it|1038 reads
 

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Lara Leger
September 24, 2007 at 7:39pm
Amen to that....but don't forget the rest of the verse that says "that walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh."  So often we wonder why we feel condemned, and it is because we are in the flesh!  But, yeah, you are totally right, man!  And also wise to only confide that stuff in men...I could give you other reasons, but that is a whole other topic!  bless you, bro.
KitKat
September 25, 2007 at 4:14am

I believe it is important to understand our issues.  In understanding we can forgive and be forgiven.  It is just important not to dwell (live in) our past issues.  Whom the son has made free, is free indeed.  Once we understand our sins/issues, then it is time to load up the stationwagon and move on!  Jess, keep working on the trust issues because while it is not a good idea to confide in all women, there are many women in the body of Christ who have insights and wisdom that could bring freedoms to your life as well.  All of mankind is not man but also woman, and so different events may need a female perspective. My husband and I regularly counsel individuals together so that we give wholesome (complete) cousel.  Just something to think about. 

Mike n Laura
September 25, 2007 at 4:27am
Jess,
I found this entire paragraph to be rather profound: "The odd thing about condemning myself..."

Great blog, one that really made me think!!
~mike

Glenn
September 25, 2007 at 6:11am
Excellent thought provoking blog Jess.  I am struggling with issues from my upbringing and have basically pushed them down for years and really need to dig them up, deal with them, forgive myself and family, and leave them at the cross.  Thanks for the encouragement here and the push to begin the process. 
peace
glenn
Apostle  Patrick
September 25, 2007 at 6:44am

Awesome post.

JessIAm
September 25, 2007 at 9:25am

Thanks all!

Lara, you bring up an important point.  When I thought about it, I realized I'm most condemning when I'm least walking in the Spirit.

Kathy, thanks for pointing that out.  I didn't even see that thread in my post.  I apologize if I seemed to convey that women don't have valid input and opinions for men (and vice versa).  God has used many women to teach me His truth.  When it comes to dealing with issues on the level I'm suggesting, this is really on the level of deep counseling or a recovery group.  On this level, I would be totally unqualified to help a sister deal with everything.  God might use me to help her deal with some individual things.  But I could never be a guide to a sister dealing with her issues.  She needs another sister for that.  My background here is 12 step recovery.  In 12 step, sponsors are always the same gender as the person sponsored.  There are a number of reasons for this.  When I share my issues with a person, that forms a very strong bond.  If a man's sponsor was a woman, there would be all sorts of emotional overhead that could get in the way of the process.

Mike, thanks!  I find dirty dishes rather profound as well ;)  Seriously, it took me a very long time to realize that my self condemnation was a smoke screen.  I'm grateful God let me see the truth about myself.

Glenn, I'm excited for the next steps God has for you.  I'm greatful God could use my experience to help.

Patrick, thanks.

Eric
September 25, 2007 at 10:53am

Jess wrote:  "Everyone includes everyone who has sinned against me (including myself)."

I've met a few people that had a difficult time grasping your parenthetical.  Good!

Jess wrote:  "The problem is, in my sinful nature, I really don't want to understand myself."

If I understand Paul correctly, your problem is imaginary.  You are not a slave to sin anymore (Romans 7).  You, as a Regenerate person, have the ability now to overcome all sin, including your desire to keep yourself in a broken state.

Jess wrote:  "To know what I'm forgiving someone else for, I will need some objective help. That help has to be Divinely powered, but it also includes people."

I'm sure you meant to say this, but the objective standard of right and wrong is God's Word with guidance from God's Spirit, not people.

Jess wrote:  "As I deal with the underlying issues, the condemnation goes away."

R.C. Sproul made the distinction between "guilt" and "guilt feelings." As Justified saints, we are guilt-free before the Father, thanks to the blood of Jesus poured out on those God foreknew.  This is instantaneous, once for all.  However, we still have guilt feelings we have to deal with, and sometimes guilt feelings are unwarrented.  For instance, you can experience a guilty feeling by walking on your neighbor's grass even though the neighbor might not care if people walk on his grass.  I hope this helped somehow.

Jess wrote:  "As the condemnation goes away, I'm able to submit to God by accepting myself for who I am...."

I'd like to add "who you are before God."  Romans 8's "more than conquerers" comes to mind, as does the benefits of being Justified in the first half of Romans 5.

Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God.  More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us. While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. ... But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received our reconciliation.

This is an encouraging blog, Jess.  Thanks for sharing!

Deb
September 25, 2007 at 11:30am
Jess, great blog.  I have struggled with forgiveness in my life...especially with myself for things I have done that were wrong.  I had to come to the realization that God doesn't want us to continue to punish or blame ourselves for the things we have done, and I had to learn to forgive myself, and only when I could do that, could I really forgive others. 
JessIAm
September 25, 2007 at 11:38am

Thanks Eric!  Wow!  That's a lot to respond to.  I'll give it my best shot.  I appreciate your intellectual approach, and I'm responding in kind.  If anything comes across as angry, it isn't - I'm just anal when I explain what I mean.

I understand what you are saying about not being slaves to sin anymore.  My point in that statement was to show we don't understand ourselves without help.  There is a very big difference between realizing God's truth that I'm free from sin, and doing what I need to live in that freedom.  Just because I have the ability to overcome all sin, doesn't mean I'm actually doing so.  I can't see the state of looking at myself in an untruthful way is an imaginary problem.  If it were imaginary, Paul wouldn't have had to remind believers to view themselves in truth in every letter he writes. 

Your right that God's Spirit and God's Word are the objective standard.  The verses in James are pretty clear that in the process of gaining healing, I need people.  As I see it, reading and understanding God's truth is important, but not sufficient.  I have to apply that truth to my soul.  I think the Bible makes it clear in James that other people are part of the process of applying that truth.

I agree with you and R.C. Sproul: there is guilt that is a state before God, and guilt that is a feeling towards myself.  The guilty feelings can be totally unwarranted.  The Bible clearly states the guilty state no longer applies to a believer.  However, there is no verse that says removing the state of guilt causes me to automatically forgive everybody who has sinned against me.  That's going to be a process.

Well, I hope that clarifies my position somewhat.

Great reponse, Eric!  Thanks. 

JessIAm
September 25, 2007 at 11:39am
Thanks Deb.  That's my point entirely, but much more concisely presented =D
Eric
September 25, 2007 at 12:43pm

Jess wrote:  "There is a very big difference between realizing God's truth that I'm free from sin, and doing what I need to live in that freedom. ... However, there is no verse that says removing the state of guilt causes me to automatically forgive everybody who has sinned against me.  That's going to be a process."

Aye, yeah, I took the intellectual approach.  Maybe that's my own safeguard to my own heart.  There's a difference between knowing and doing.  But a lot of times knowing helps the doing.  I understood what you were saying.  I just felt compelled to share a bit of what I knew.

JessIAm
September 25, 2007 at 1:20pm
Eric, there's nothing wrong with an intellectual approach.  I hope I didn't come across as contentious.  I guess I was so into responding because I used intellectualism as a smoke screen for my issues in my teens.  I actually had to teach myself to recognize my feelings.  That's one of my issues. =D
KitKat
September 25, 2007 at 8:23pm

Okay Jess, it is more clear of where you are coming from.  Now understanding moreI will agree strongly with you on your wise choice in counsel.  Oh, and I just want to go on the record, I know for a fact God likes you and thankfully the rest of us as well. SGLY

JessIAm
September 26, 2007 at 9:18am

Thanks Kathy, I'm glad I was able to clear that up.

God doesn't just love me, He likes me.
God doesn't just like me, He adores me.
God doesn't just adore me, He's always on my side, helping me become more like Him.

Kathy
September 26, 2007 at 2:27pm
Thought-provoking post, Jess.  This line especially gave me pause:

"Have you ever met someone who only sees them self as one or another brand of sinner? It's funny how they don't seem to change much"

It seems there's a lot in this statement.  Perhaps that we see our "sins" but miss our "sin."  If I see only my "sins," I can judge that they are less than those of someone else, but God does not look at our "sins."  He sees our "sin," which equally condemns me with all those whose "sins" seem worse to me.  I am a sinner, period.
JessIAm
September 26, 2007 at 2:40pm

Thanks Kathy.  I like to think of all Christians as Sin-aholics.  The details might be different, but we all have the same basic problem.

I should admit that for years I was a self brander.  I'm so grateful God had mercy and gave me a clue. 

Pastor Tim
September 26, 2007 at 3:02pm
Jess, I enjoyed your post. One Scripture that I have found solice in when being attacked by the enemy with condemnation is Isaiah 53:5-6.

Isaiah 53:5-6 -
 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.  6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

When we fall victim to condemnation we are beating ourselves up for our transgressions. Besides self condemnation is not the godly sorrow that will bring about repentance. Biblical repentance is not to improve yourself by making yourself feel bad because of what you have done wrong. It is seeing the sin as God sees it and confessing/repenting of the sin and receiving forgiveness.
JessIAm
September 26, 2007 at 3:16pm

Thanks Pastor Tim.  I agree, trying to make myself feel bad to improve myself is me using my sinful nature to fix my sinful nature.  That ain't gonna work!

Thanks for posting the verses.

Isaiah 53:6
We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Getting back to Kathy's comment, I don't know what Christs died to address more, my individual sins, or everything in me that wants to sin (I know He died for both).

 

Valerie Williams
September 27, 2007 at 2:22pm
No that you need my in put but Jesus loved you so much edied for your sins as well as all sin including mine and Thank God we are forgiven yet we have to learn to for give and recieve God's forgivness.  Amen
JessIAm
September 27, 2007 at 2:25pm

Thanks Valarie.  I totally agree!  Amen!   The fact that God saw each of us as worth dying for is pretty affirming.

cateyez
October 03, 2007 at 9:52am
"Part of forgiving is identifying what I'm forgiving someone else for. If I apologize to someone, it doesn't matter much, unless I state exactly what I'm apologizing for. The same goes for forgiving. Unforgiveness is like spiritual cancer. It feeds my issues to the point where its harder for me to show God's Love in my attitudes and actions."

Jess, I agree with this whole paragraph. It is useless to apologize to someone without knowing what you have done to upset them or hurt them in any means. That is similar to confessing your sins and asking for forgiveness. You are apologizing in hopes the other person will forgive you. Once you acknowledge your wrong doing, the "cancer" has been lifted. God wants what is best for us. What is best for us is knowing when we have done wrong. Acknowledging what we have done, and taking the necessary steps in correcting what we have done and providing preventitive maintenance, so to speak, lengthens our walk with Christ and brings us closer to God.

Thank you so much for your insite and I love reading your posts. It is awsome to see someone put out there, their thoughts and struggle. Knowing someone is going through the same struggles, reassures us that we are only human and being in the flesh, we are not alone by any means. God bless you and keep you.
JessIAm
October 03, 2007 at 10:31am
Thanks cateyez.  I'm really touched by your response.  God and I will make it yet!
JessIAm
October 08, 2007 at 9:25am

Howdy James,

 

Thanks for posting.  The relationship I have with Jesus is the basis for all my healing.  I'm kind of confused by something you said, which seems to negate much of what I'm saying (if I understand it correctly):

We need not concern ourselves with our petty problems.

My view is that petty problems are what I need to take to God.  As such, they are a concern, but God wants to remove them as a hinderance.  For example, I was an angry child.  I kept praying that God would take my anger away.  One day, I learned that a relative had phyisically abused me.  When I forgave this relative, I wasn't angry anymore.  For me, facing all my problems (even the petty ones) in God's truth is the pathway to peace.

JessIAm
October 09, 2007 at 3:48pm
Thanks Arlene.
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