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| Critiquing Pentecostals: Are We Going too Far? |
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“A lady once came to Billy Sunday and tried to rationalize her angry outbursts. ‘There's nothing wrong with losing my temper,’ she said. ‘I blow up, and then it's all over.’ ‘So does a shotgun,’ Sunday replied, ‘and look at the damage it leaves behind!;" As a Pentecostal, one thing that I find a bit disconcerting is the anti-Pentecostal bias that exists in parts of the Body of Christ and the subsequent anger that sometimes accompanies it. Some are quick to point out the shortcomings of parts of the movement, in order to paint with broad strokes, a characterization that is geared towards discrediting the movement as a whole. These individuals have done a disservive, I believe, to the body of Christ. Somehow spiritual gifts, or that dreaded of all gifts, tongues, is going to destroy the Church as we know it.
There are Shortcomings
At this point, I must say that I am not oblivious to some of the movements shortcomings. Christian television, I find much of the time to be repulsive, with the health and wealth gospel or the so called five-fold ministry emphasis where everyone seems to be an apostle or prophet. Then there is the anti-intellectualism that sometimes characterizes the movement that I love. However, I have equal disdain for those who want to impose straw man arguments to further their positions. In their quest to further their anti-Pentecostal fundamentalism, they will take one issue and paint the whole movement with a broad brush. For instance, they will charge that Pentecostalism is overly emotional, while at the same time failing to see how rationalism and naturalism have affected their theological presuppositions.
More Conservative than the Bible
Our tendency, when trying to counter wrongs in our haste to set the proverbial record straight, is to become more conservative than the Bible. This should not be. We as Christian are called to simply honor and obey God’s Word, not to add to or take away from it.
A Final Thought
So next time a critique is offered maybe we might want to also tell about the good things that God is doing in the movement. J
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Jami |
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September 27, 2007 at 9:53am |
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| People that say we are over emotional simply don't understand one thing...Christ gave His life for me. That's enough to get over emotional about. No one else has ever done that for me. These same people will scream at their T.V. when their favorite sports team is playing until they can't talk anymore. That seems over emotional to me. I can't help but be emotional with my worship. I serve a great God that has done great things for me. The least I can do is put my whole self (body, soul and mind) into my worship. |
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"MORE conservative than the Bible"..... that's an interesting phrase. I take it the point is we add requirements that aren't there, like the religious leaders of Christ's day. Good point.
Amen Jami! Funny how we can get so worked up over a football game (and I do), and yet we have to totally maintain our composure when worshiping our Savior. That does seem funny. |
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Just thinking about something you said about the 5 fold ministries and that everyone seems to be an Apostle or a Prophet. There are 5 ministries spoken of: Pastor, Teacher, Evangilist, Apostle, & Prophet. It actually seems to me that EVERYONE seems to be a Pastor, If I had to pick one.
I thank God for ALL 5 fold ministries. Are some calling themselves Prophet or Apostle who are not called to such an office? Perhaps. But, I know Pastor who are not called to Pastor, but are. In the end, God has His way, and brings balance to the scales. So, is there something GOOD I can bring out of this? Yes! Praise God for men & woman who have answered the calling of God, and stepped out into greater debths of ministry to teach, edify, and rebuke the body of Christ.
Smiles!
Shannon |
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| Good point, I sometimes wonder what god thinks as different people he has endowed with different gifts separate themselves into different denominations and then claim there gifts are the best. All of us who were given the gift of tongues would love to know what we were saying but we aren't talking to the interpreters right now. |
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Hey, Pastor Tim,
All I can say is that ignorance abounds among those who call themselves Christians. Part of the enemy's strategy is to keep us divided by superficial issues so that we don't see the important things. C.S. Lewis speaks of the Church as "spread through all time and space and rooted in eternity, terrible as an army with banners" but which is "quite invisible to ... humans." We often only see the people around us, with their excesses, carnal attitudes, obvious mistakes, etc., but we don't see our own errors. I long for a day in which we could just focus on loving God and loving people and let God take care of the differences. I'm not talking about ignoring doctrine or theology, but putting things in their proper place. I think that's what Jesus spent a lot of his teaching and healing ministry doing: setting things in their proper. Jesus loved people. He met their needs. He taught them about and demonstrated the Father's love. He called them to not be hypocrites, but to be real before God and men. He taught them to hate sin, but to love the sinner (I know it's a cliché, but it's true!). And he wanted us to be one as He and the Father are one. God help us. |
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Thanks Jamie and MH for your comments. Jamie I liked your analogy about sports.
Mike, yes, that was what I was referring to. For instance, in a response to the idea that God works miracles today, some people hold that God never works the miraculous. I would see that as being more conservative than the Bible.
Shannon, thank you for your comments. I respect your views on the five fold ministry, but I see this ministry a little different. I have lots of friends that hold this few and are used greatly of the Lord. A good site to visit is http://www.letusreason.org/Pent1.htm , to see an apposing view.
God bless you sister!
Dave, good point! I always appreciate your imput. |
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| Danny, If that were a blog I would have starred it. Outstanding. |
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Pastor Tim~ The link is very very long. I got lost in the middle of it. But I read the end, which basically says that Apostles & Prophets are not for today. Is this what you are saying?
I know many Apsotles & Prophets who are being used by God TODAY. I believe you when you say you and your friends are being used by God greatly, but so are the Prophets & Apostle of today. I simply cannot remove 2 of the fingers of the 5 fold minister because I think they are not for today. A hand missing two fingers does not function properly. It is considered handicap. Point being, it takes all 5 fingers to grasp things correctly. This is true for the 5 fold ministry. It takes all five to grasp the things of God correctly.
Smiles!
Shannon |
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Deb |
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September 27, 2007 at 11:59am |
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| Pastor Tim, good post and good advice, and I agree that Danny's response here was very good. |
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AndrewB |
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September 27, 2007 at 12:17pm |
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I think one of the big problems in the Body of Christ is our grouping into diverse denominations and traditions from which we critique one another's theology, doctrine and eccelesiology. Jesus Himself prayed that we would be one. Our real unity is in our acceptance of Him as Lord.
A great book I found recently is by Brian McLaren with the crazy long title "A Generous Orthodoxy: Why I Am a Missional, Evangelical, Post/Protestant, Liberal/Conservative, Mystical/Poetic, Biblical, Charismatic/Contemplative, Fundamentalist/Calvinist, Anabaptist/Anglican, Methodist, Catholic, Green, Incarnational, Depressed-yet-Hopeful, Emergent, Unfinished CHRISTIAN". In this book Brian McLaren goes through all the mainline denominations and shows what is great and good about them. And he also shows how we all have much more in common than we have differences.
So really there is no reason for us not to drop our critical view of other denominations and fulfill Jesus' wish, command and prayer and be united in Him. |
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Thanks, Tim,
Maybe I'll turn those comments into a blog one of these days! I've been too busy to write lately.
I wanted to comment on the apostles and prophets issue. The main concern that some people have is whether what we are seeing today under the title apostles and prophets is the same thing the Bible says they are. People using these title are exercising quite a bit of authority in the spheres that accept them, and many of them want every one else to come under their umbrella. I think Christians need to proceed with caution in regards to this movement, because good things can be accomplished by people without God's blessings, but human good and God's Good are not the same thing. Again, may God help us as we seek to hear His voice and follow Him. |
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| Danny, I expressed exactly what that I didn't have time to type earlier. I couldn't have said it better myself. |
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Shannon, thank you for your comments. I always appreciate your input.
Andrew, I haven't read that book yet, but I am going to check it out. |
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| What we are dealing with is this. Any 5 fold minister can get off a bit. To me, a pastor can have the same poor leadership skills as some apostles * prophets * teachers * evangilist. I get a bad taste in my mouth seeing the seperating of the fold here, to esteem some better than others. I choose to take ALL that God has to offer. Is a Pastor today the same as a Pastor was in the old testiment??? NO, we are not. Times change, people change, but God does not. Why do I keep coming back to this blog???? LOL. |
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Denise |
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September 27, 2007 at 12:59pm |
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| Yeah, what Jami said!!!! Glory be to God, He gave His only Son for me!!!!!! |
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MaKelly |
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September 27, 2007 at 1:30pm |
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Pastor Tim I agree
I use those words all the time (not to add to or take away from it. |
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Pastor, thank you for your Blog, and i know just what your saying! i think one of the biggest problems in the Christian cammunity is that we have decided to change the mandate Christ has set for the Church!
one of the things that hurts people the most and keeps people from comming to Christ is US changing the mandate! 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
He told us to Go, and we decided to fight for the high Seat on His Left and his right!
if we just follow the blue print and stop trying to make our own copy we will do just fine! |
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Deb, thank you for the encouraging words. You are always a great source of encouragement.
Denise, I always like the song that says, When I think of his goodness and what he's done for me I wanna SHOUT SHOUT SHOUT I wanna SHOUT SHOUT SHOUT all night long.
MaKelly, God bless you sister.
Keith, amen brother. It's about reaching out with the love and power of Jesus. |
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Eric |
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September 27, 2007 at 2:05pm |
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I hesitate to write this because it may appear I glorify myself, but really, I want to put it all on God: I'm glad I've been discipled in such a way that I find positive attributes in (nearly) all denominations. Regarding the "Pentacostals," I love how they rejoice in the Lord and wish the more "conservative" churches would shake the dust off their shoulders and dance like king David danced! At the same time, there are many churches, some of them "conservative" that have excellent teaching and discipleship programs, stuff to get Christians trained on meat, not milk. And then there are the "seeker-friendly" churches that could use stronger discipleship programs. I'm sure this was mentioned in the comments above, but there's no such thing as a perfect church. What we should do is focus on the positives (as the Bible and Spirit determines) and pray that spurs us on to hunger for more out of ourselves and our own local church. Sanctification is a process. |
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| Eric, very good word. I appreciate your imput. |
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| God bless one and all and may the love and peace of Christ but more abound. Danny right on! |
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JayKTX |
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September 27, 2007 at 2:34pm |
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I have enjoyed reading the comments and the various opinions and am encouraged at the emphasis on unity and holding to "whatsoever things are of good report" (Phils 4:8). I believe there are "church planters" today who could call themselves apostles if they wanted to but I am put off by those who use it as a title before their name. Likewise there are many who hear from God and speak his words but don't put the title "Prophet" on their business cards. Perhaps doing that doesn't always mean a prideful heart so I would say Phils 2:3 is the main thing: Let nothing be done through selfish amibition or conceit but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. I think Shannon said that first! |
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1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I wish I could remember where in the book of acts it sais something like they searched the scriptures daily to see if what they said was true. But I'm glad that we have the scriptures in our own native tongue these days. I think there is a Gospel going forth, but theres also many counterfeits. This is why we are to search the scriptures with the guidance of the spirit. However I find that I do need to respect those god has put in authority over us. But then again 90% of this comment is just my opinion. with $.50 I could get a coffee... |
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Did you say Coffee Dave? I'd love some! 
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I giggled as I read this because I come from a traditional Lutheran background, and when I began attending a Pentecostal church instead, it was like the world had collapsed for some of my Lutheran friends. It took me years to get to the point where I could worship freely and extravagantly and shake off the "stuffiness" and intellectual approach that I'd been taught growing up. I now attend a Lutheran church again, but it actually broke away from the traditional ELCA because our church believes in being spirit-led. And *gasp* we even have members with the gift of tongues. The sad part is that we are known as the "cult Lutheran church" by our local Lutheran churches... most of them anyways. All because we have a more charismatic expression and focus on the spirit as an essential part of Christian experience. It's sad. As a Lutheran by theology myself, I'd like to speak for the minority of us who are not like the "Christians" you described. There are some of us out there from other denominations that don't fall into that category.
I think one of the people above hit it on the head. We gather by the masses and flock to sports events, painting faces and cheering like maniacs... yet, we should be silent and composed in church? My family always became the "church rebels" b/c we would clap during a song, or when something said touched us. You wouldn't imagine the looks we got! All for clapping?! To contain excitement over what Christ did is ridiculous.
Not sure where I'm going with this except to say - there are shortcomings in all denominations and all Christian movements. I say, as long is the focus is on Christ, then go for it! |
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| Ditto on the focus being on Christ, If our focus is on Benny or Joyce or something like that our focus is in the wrong place. |
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17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Beroea: who when they were come thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 17:11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.
there that's what I was looking for |
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| My church isn't under the Pentecostal umbrella, but for the longest time, I just assumed it was! So, I am a non-tongue speaking one, that is totally cool with people speaking in tongues or not...I know there is sometimes flesh, and perhaps even faking due to pressure, but I know I have encountered and heard the real thing. Admittedly, I at one point got really frustrated with the push to speak in tongues, but if we are secure in the Lord, we won't care. I just want to love. And really, there is nothing "better" about Pentecostals, we, who love the Lord come in all kinds of flavors and out of all kinds of denominational umbrellas. I love and accept and respect many who don't believe in the gifts, and they respect my view enough to not attack me for it. Praise God for love! So do I have nice stuff to say about Pentecostals???? Absolutely!!! But also some Baptists, and some Anglican, and some Presbyterians, and Vineyarders, and so many other brothers and sisters I know who love Jesus! Titles, titles, titles...but we also who believe in tongues, where it is not a matter of one's salvation, should not try to force another believer to believe in it. Leave it in God's hands. They may never, but if they are walking in love and righteousness, who really cares, right? |
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Grant |
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September 28, 2007 at 6:05am |
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Tim, I personally struggle with the shortcomings in every branch of the church. I find the authoritarianism and exclusivism in the two ancient branches of the church stifling. I find the legalism among conservative Protestantism stifling, and equally the denial of the power of God in the liberal branches. I have the same frustrations with Pentecostalism as you do. No, let me correct myself. I don't find them a struggle, I find these issues downright depressing and a cause of great grief to my soul.
Don't get me wrong. I honor the faith of those who understand Holy Scripture differently to me. I do not wish to play the accuser, nor do I wish to say that my take is superior to anyone else's. What grieves me is the attitude of persecution that I get when my faith is different to someone else's.
Let me tell you why. I used to attend a Pentecostal church and I even tried out the tongues thingie. However, for me, it did nothing, so I eventually gave up on it as of relative unimportance for my faith. I did not judge the faith of those around me who wanted to pray in tongues, but felt like my faith was being judged because I saw no point in it for me personally. In fact, I was teaching in a Pentecostal Bible College at the time, but was to find out that I was not going anywhere near the pulpit, because I did not speak in tongues.
I experienced a similar thing in a Baptist Church and now the Churches of Christ. I just do not seem to fit a preconceived mold and hence am not part of the "in" crowd. It is for that reason that I grieve with tears sometimes. |
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Val, blessings to you too
JKTX, I agree with your statement regarding apostles. Good word.
Dave, The Bereans are a good model to follow!
Kathleen, I enjoyed your testimony. You are right. There are shortcomings in all denominations.
Laura, I agree. While I believe in a tongues, it shouldn't be forced on anybody. The Holy Spirit is a gentleman.
Grant, I always appreciate your comments and your heart for the Lord. I will be praying for you that God would lead you into a healthy, well balanced church that would enhance your walk with the Lord.
Psalms Girl, I agree that it is important to glean from all Bible believing Christians. We can all learn from one another.
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Pastor Tim:
I see a lot in our Churches today... Somethings I like and somethings I am not sure of... I just Know One thing... I am searching and seeking Christ in the fullest sense... I want the closest relationship with HIM i can Have...
I have attended many different denomonational Churches... If there nis ONE thing I have Learned ... It is that NONE of us are perfect , Therefor NONE of the church groups are going to be perfect... This has to be Understood By us all.... if You are Not satisfied where You are , Then PRAY for Gods Guidance to where He wants You to be.... IF you are where HE wants You to be... Then You will have a sense Of Purpose , and Completness that was Missing in those Other Places.... When You criticize others... You are doing the same for your shortcomings... , therefore you criticize yourself... I am a NON denominational Minister... I am a Minister of the Gospel Of Jesus Christ... In That... I found contentment... Like Brother Danny wrote above... In His first Post... WE are the Church... Not the Denomination.... as Such... we have to Love One another and bear each others Burdens, to Lift Up our Weaker Brothers and Sisters... By doing so we Honor Christ , Our Redeamer... Hope this wasn't too Long... |
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Joey |
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September 28, 2007 at 5:05pm |
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| I believe there that none one of us has the right to critique another child of God. |
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Grant |
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September 28, 2007 at 7:58pm |
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Okay, I complained above about my grief. Now I feel an urge to praise the Lord for the blessings which he has bestowed upon the various branches of HIS Holy Church. Let me tell you why I am grateful to each branch of the church of God.
I am thankful for what God has given to the Catholic Church, because they were the only branch in the west for 1500 years and preserved the Bible to pass on to us Protestants. I also love the depth of theology expressed in the Catholic Encyclopedia online.
I am thankful for what God has given to oldest branch of Christianity, the Orthodox Church, because of their wonderful take on many theological issues and their faithfulness during many centuries of persecution under Islam.
I love the zeal God has given to the conservative Protestant churches for the Holy Scriptures, the depth of obedience of the liberal Protestant churches to the command to love our neighbor, because they actually do something about it.
Last, but not least, in keeping with the topic of this blog, I am grateful for what God has given the Charismatic branches of the church of God including Pentecostals for their faith that God has something to say today, through the Holy Spirit and that we should listen. |
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KitKat |
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September 29, 2007 at 8:53am |
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As a child I was front and center stage during the 70’s and 80’s early Apostolic Evangelism movement that has graduated to the more widely accepted “Charismatic Movement” of today. Until I was in the 7th grade I had never worn a pair of pants. My mother didn't cut our hair and she didn't wear makeup. (Thank Goodness she was a natural beauty...LOL).
As a child I didn't understand how this made us any holier, but now understand why it did. Why? Plain and simple because it helped my mom and dad abandon all concern for what man thought of them and devote their lives to seeking for all God had for them. You see God had delivered them out of so much bondage (alcohol, speed) and as a result my parents experienced the power of God in their lives and wanted God to use them to help other people. My mother was a former beauty queen so when she laid down the vanity that had controlled her, she grew in grace and beauty of God. My dad grew because he laid down his greed and desire to obtain wealth at any expense. Their decisions were right for them. Eventually they realized owning a home, making good money, and wearing pants wasn't sin. Thankfully they eventually let their 3 girls wear a little makeup and take an occasional trip to the beauty salon. (smile).
Looking back I would not take anything for the passion my parents instilled in me as I witnessed them "lay aside every every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. "Hebrews 12:1-2 (KJV)
What I am trying to communicate is this - we each have different bents from our entanglements with sin. The curse of sin leaves different scars on our lives. Whatever it takes to rid our mind of the desire to sin - then by all means do it. If speaking in tongues keeps your heart focused on God - then it is beneficial. If sitting quietly in church listening with an open heart - quiets your sinful nature then it is beneficial and not to be criticized by others.
I find myself utilizing many different God approved 'strategies' to cope with life inside this fleshy casket. There are days I must boldly pray in tongues or I will fall victim to the fear and wickedness of my flesh. Then there are other times that the shouts of the enemy have been so loud - that I just long to rest in a quiet and peaceful place and find refuge for my soul. God is not to be confined to one particular 'tradition'. He is like the modern worship song by Chris Tomlin declares ....INDESRIBABLE! With that in mind, it should come as no surprise mankind is attracted to so many of the different aspects of who God is...thus many of the denominations we have today are formed just because their field of study is on a different aspect of God's majesty.
Those denominations formed in sinful rebellion will produce rebellion, and those who are formed in pursuit of holiness will produce disciples of Christ. As moma always said – time will tell what seeds are planted in your heart…for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. (Matthew 12:34). |
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| Hey Pastor - I see you got some heat for your implication that as a rule the Apostolic and Prophetic ministries are in great need of accountability. It doesn't surprise me that some of it was rather defensive. There is a real boy's club mentality that goes on. Unfortunately many, including myself at one time, can't see the forest for the trees. Blind obedience is rampant!! The truth is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the other 3 offices. That's not the point. The point is the co-dependant culture that underscores the throngs that follow whoever has the biggest name or reputation. It's the popular thing to be involved in anything with the name Aposotlic or Prophetic. I do believe that the offices are legitimate, and deeply needed for today. If you would like to get an opinion from someone coming from that side of things I can give you one. I'm still waiting for those that not to long ago stood up in pulpits in my city, and boldly set themselves up as being sent and called by God to this city as Apostles and Prophets to actually fulfill what God called them to do. I guess God must have made a mistake (He did that with KIng Saul too!!), because one has left the nation entirely, and the other has all but vanished from the scene. Their complaint is that it was the churches fault, and that's their excuse. Not really what we would expect from someone so profoundly called of God is it? I should point out that these are not the exception. Both ministers held credentials with major Pentecostal denominations both in Canada and the U.S. !! |
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| Married to the Lord, Kathy, Grant, Rev. Floyd, Joey, thanks guys for your comments! |
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| Sorry for my late comment. After going through all the doctrines of some of the denominations in the Body of Christ, I realise that a portion of the doctrines of each church is based on The Holy Bible, and some of the other doctrines are interpreted. This is one of the major stumbling block in the process of evangelisation, because, when believers of many denominations approach a non beilever and shares the word of God and the gospel and the process to become a believer, he finds many ways and not "THE ONLYWAY". The non-belivers are sometimes confused. They compare this to the 'many ways' to reach God. In India, non christians often use the rivers and the ocean as example to the different ways to reach god. |
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| Yes Jesus was all inclusive. We should not be exclusive. |
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I hail from a protestant background church in India. But I was saved and baptized in water and in Spirit in a pentecostal church in Delhi, India. Though there are some extremees in the pentecosal movement, there are many wonderful things in these churches.
Vision of the churches of God
Please click the above link to read my article on the Vision of the seven churches of God. Through our human eyes, we cannot find fault with any church of God. It is the Holy Spirit Who judges all these churches. |
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Gene |
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October 04, 2007 at 9:02pm |
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I think most of us truly desire the joy of Christian friendships regardless of background or type of church we attend. And while we are told not to judge, scripture also talks of admonishing others when they stray and at some point even seperating from them. And I think that's where the rub occurs - finding the proper balance between accepting others lovingly as children of God through Christ and admonishment.
Too frequently we find ourselves jumping on the high horse and pointing our fingers at others. I believe admonishment needs to begin with quiet time in prayer to reflect on the real situation at hand, to humbly acknowledge our own failings, then to ask the Holy Spirit fhow we should respond.
If we don't get an answer, maybe we should just do nothing about it. Even though we may be right, the manner in which we may be inclined to respond may be against what the Holy Spirit wants.
Gene |
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Gene |
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October 06, 2007 at 10:25am |
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Tim, I've made quite a trip through the various paths of faith. It's sad when we start criticizing others in ignorance. There are legitimate reasons to disagree with one another - but we do that in our own congregations - and about dinner on Saturday night. But disagreement is not the same as calling names. It's important to remember what unites us. If we can focus on that, we can really get to the basics of our faith.
Another Gene had to chime in. . .
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Wow! What an excellent thread! A preacher from El Salvador once came to our church. We could be called "pentecostals" or "charismatics" although we don't call ourselves anything like that. We just call ourselves christians. We praise and worship with our hearts and our bodies. We believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I've seen the power of God in my family, in my life, in my ministry. This brother is from a very conservative church. He stood quiet during the praise and worship songs, then the time came for him to preach. It is wonderful how God works. He came to our church not knowing we have dance, and we clap our hands, and we raise our hands, and we kneel, and we jump sometimes. He stood at the pulpit and said "God is moving here". The Bible teaches: 1 Corinthians 12:4-7 (ISV) Now there are varieties of gifts, but the Spirit is the same; (5) and there are varieties of ministries, but the Lord is the same; (6) and there are varieties of results, but God is the same, and it is he who produces all the results in everyone. (7) To each person has been given the ability to display the Spirit for the common good. If every church would focus on the Bible, the body of Christ would be united. Just remember Paul and Peter. They had different ministries, but both were servants of Christ. One had a different style than the other. But both of them preached, both had their congregations, both wrote letters, both were apostles. This brother who came to our church told us how his congregation supported the missions, had an elementary and a high school. They are serving the Lord that way. We have our children feeding programs and our neighborhood crusades. They use an organ to play the music for worship. We use a modern keyboard . But we are both worshipping the same God. In the end he gave us a number of Scriptures encouraging us to hold on to what The Lord has granted us. And the whole congregation acknowledged that the man has authority in The Word, and he is a wonderful pastor. But he uses the ministry to give life and to encourage faith, not to criticize everyone that goes to a different church. This man set an example. And he has preached several times at our church. The end should be to give Jesus the glory, to teach the congregation to love God and to live for Him and by Him. The rest is vanity of vanities; all is vanity. |
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| I am amazed to see that the members of different denominations are the same the world over. Yes instead of critisising other denominations every one will do well if we just follow the Bible and do as Christ Commanded. Love our neighbours and Love our enemies. If we cant love fellow Christians where is the question of loving neighbours? I hope all believers would realise this world over. |
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| If we do not love our brethren and sisters in other denominational churches by finding faults with their doctrines, then we do not know the love of Christ. Kindly read my blog "What is Christian love?" |
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Elmer, You are right. It's all about God's glory.
Ragland - As I was reading your post I was reminded of the statement made by Jesus about how people would know that we are disciples of Jesus by the way we love one another.
Job - I really enjoyed your blog. |
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Grant |
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October 11, 2007 at 7:28pm |
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A huge problem comes when we think that we are above criticism. When Luther criticized Leo because he condoned a money-making scam, he was told how dare he correct the Pope! When some criticize certain televangelists, these same televangelists act just like Leo, and claim that we are criticizing God. We are not!
One of the strengths and weaknesses of Pentecostalism is the independence of most churches. Independence is great because it avoids the heavy-handed and often abusive top-down episcopal structure in many churches. However, this strength is also a weakness, because there is no control over the wacky and abusive elements at the local level.
A second major weakness of Pentecostalism is the lack of education in the Holy Scriptures of many of their pastors. This is actually being addressed in many areas, but like many movements, Pentecostalism has gone through the 3 historic phases of any movement. Phase 1 is largely enthusiastic but ignorant and theologically off-base. Phase 2 is a little more educated, but less enthusiastic. Phase 3 is far more educated and hence much more theologically accurate, but the enthusiasm has gone.
Rather than a reformation taking place with greater education in Greek and Hebrew and exegesis and hermeneutics, defense of original doctrines, even ones that are not accurate or defensible, tends to take place. In my opinion (which could be wrong, by the way), I believe that rather than correct some of the doctrines from Azusa Street when the movement was theologically weak and filled with largely uneducated people, with further education, Pentecostalism has tended to find more and more intricate reasons to defend them.
There are some in the movement that I respect highly, such as Gordon Fee, who are very highly educated in good theology, and do not tend to agree with the simplistic end of the Pentecostal spectrum, but rather have a more balanced approach. I pray with time that this can filter through to the rest of the movement. |
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