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| When will the body of Christ come together (for the world to see)? |
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Actually the body of Christ IS one in Spirit (and always has/shall be). Jesus said that the SAME Spirit and love of the Father would also be in "them"/us, so that the world would know God's love and know that God sent Jesus (Jn17).
I believe this is the purpose and design God has in mind for Christ's body on earth today. So I ask, "when will the world see this?" I'm not just talking about here in America or the western hemisphere. We are talking WORLD (cosmos).
Will it ever come about as long as we keep arguing and bickering over what WE (corporate "we") consider to be "truth" to the exclusion and/ or disrespect of another's conviction of "truth?" Our oneness can NEVER be demonstrated to the world by offering them a taste from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Our diet must first come from the LIFE tree. "Taste and see, the Lord is good!"
I said all that...to say this: I have had these questions brewing in me for some time now. This morning I had this thought, so I decided to present it to MyChurch family here. Brace yourselves..it's pretty wild!
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
What would happen if Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore could sit down and discuss their personal viewpoints without attacking one another?
Wouldn't it be a shame if that happened before Christians born by the life and love of God living in them sat down with their own brothers and sisters and did the same? God's life and love in us is longing for us to come together in life (spirit) and love so the world may see God's heart and plan.
Only love can transcend those differences and prejudices. May the Spirit of God open our hearts and draw us closer to Him that His heart's desire and ours will be the same.
2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 2:8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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| To add a comment to "When will the body of Christ come together (for the world to see)?" |
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| October 17, 2007 |
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Hey Charlie, thought provoking blog! My first thought is the world sees what the world chooses to see. There are some amazing Christian fellowships, which the world doesn't give the time of day to. There are wonderful ministries all over the world, but the world largely ignores them, saying "fine for them". Even when they look at a Mother Theresa, they say "she's so good!" rather than acknowledging the truth, that it's God who is so good, living his life through surrendered folks such as she. If they say it is she that is good, that emphasizes personal choice, rather than human responsibility.
There is plenty of unity in the body of Christ which the world couldn't care less about. Yes, there is division as well, but the depravity of the world puts the disunity of the body of Christ to shame!!!
Only when we are beyond the limitations of our "bodies of death" (including physical bodies and brains) will we final true, limitless, complete unity in the Spirit. In the meantime there's too much contending to be done. Another thing to consider, the unity that we do achieve is only glorious to those who do notice precisely because it is so hard-won. It's so uncommon. I do agree though, when Limbaugh and Moore sit down and get friendly w/each other, that'll be the day our divisiveness really comes under the microscope. |
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| October 17, 2007 |
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I'm entering the conversation rather late in the game. But the way I see it, unless a grain of corn falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone. In other words, the way up is down. But we know that with our heads already. Living it is another matter.
But maybe that's why I don't get on many forums these days. Mostly "truth" isn't worth arguing for. It's something that you live in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Personally, I somewhat expect a spiritual death of the Church before it rises again. I think that's maybe the norm. I actually posted something on the topic the other day here. It sounds a little down at first, but I think there's hope. |
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| October 17, 2007 |
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What would happen if Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore could sit down and discuss their personal viewpoints without attacking one another? Wow! That would make my reality for a day or two. Jesus brought together Matthew (a Jewish man who collected taxes for the Roman empire) and Simon the Zealot (an anti Roman terrorist). Why do we think that Jesus and His followers should have a political agenda? I just want to be on board for Christs Spiritual Agenda (i.e. the Great Commission). |
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| October 18, 2007 |
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I appreciate y'alls input. I agree Mike that many could care less. I think that's "our" fault more than theirs. How can anyone turn down God and His love when they really "SEE" it!? Who is gonna show that love? Well first of all it must come from those who have personally experienced it. This may be where Jack is referring to the "sons" of God.
Jess, that was a great point! Look at who Jesus chose. Some of the most unlikely dudes that would ever be brought together. Each had their own agendas. -- Ah, therein is the rub! Like Kat stated, there has to be some surrender, denying, death that takes place within, before God's life in us can be seen without. First within..then comes without. God sees the heart (hence Jesus chose not from outward appearance). Man looks to the outward. Methinks religion and politics cater to the outward.
I have more to say and would like to present a very real scenario of this transformation of Christ's body being made evident and appealing to the world in the near future.
For now, let's hear more from the saints. Yea or Nay..we're all family, so speak up. Let's learn from one another. |
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| October 18, 2007 |
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Anything or anyone "false" cannot show the love of God. I agree, love is not a doctrine, but it certainly is a reality. Jesus said He is the way, the truth (reality) and the life. I believe all begins and ends in/with love. God's love transcends our comprehension or understanding. Love is a matter of life..God's love MUST and can only come from God's life within us.
You are so right soldier, religion(s), doctrines and denominations are not what God seeks. He seeks worshippers in spirit and truth (reality). Even that is an expression of God's love that must be experienced and lived out.
As the world sees that lived out in reality before them, they will see God's love in us. That is Christ's body on earth today in reality. |
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| October 25, 2007 |
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Hey Charlies, it has been a while...good topic here. You hit the nail on the head. While there is some justification to getting worked up over issues...we always seem to forget the whole "we do not wrestle with fleash and blood" thing and the "weapons of our warfar are NOT carnal" thing until we are in the security of the pulpit (or like surrounding)...I myself have also been guilty many times.
There is a human factor and I wish some people would stop trying to force Christianity in certain realms and would stop acting surprised that ungodly people act...well ungodly.
Not to add fuel to your fire but it seems all the Christian voices today can only seem to rally about how the gays have destroyed marriage (I think we did a good enough job of that!) and about corrupt politicians (yet our own mega church leaders keep falling like extras in the Last of the Mohicans) while there are Christians being tortured and murdered right now for their faith and they are leaving this world in absolute silence. Silence from their end b/c they understand the war they are in and silence from our end b/c we have lost sight of the enemy!!!
Sorry Charlie (if I got carried away...the punn was intended) |
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| October 26, 2007 |
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This has been brewing in me for a while, and I couldn't think of the right venue to express it in until now. Last weekend, I visited an Anglican Church with an old, old friend that I hadn't seen in over 20 years since last July. It was a wonderful reunion and all.
Anyway, we went into this church and listened to the sermon, liturgy, etc. My friend absolutely loved the sermon, until they spoke about the body and blood of the Lord. She looked at me and asked, "Are you going to take communion?" I said, "Well, I thought about it. Why?" She said, "They believe the wine and bread really turn into the Body and Blood. I just don't think I can take communion with them."
Later, I considered all the points of view on the communion/Eucharist. Technically, it doesn't matter what we think--mainly because Jesus didn't cover the characteristics of the elements. It is what it is. Now think for a minute--didn't Jesus say it was the little foxes that spoil the grapes?
Unity is destroyed because people think someone's 'wrong' opinions have the power to render the things of God null and void. There is no unity outside a Christocentric emphasis. |
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| October 29, 2007 |
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Christocentric, that is a big word...I like it. While there is some justification to not wanting to be aligned with a group of individuals that are preaching and alternate or altered gospel, I think the basis of what you say is true. I myself could not submit myself to the leadership of a local church body that does things like that...but I could still stand before the Lord and partake of it.
The anti-christian world deems us all brain-washed...which can be understood in instances like this. We allow the human church leadership to have such a say in our walk with the Lord that we can exchange the Word of God for the word of man...that is the only explanation possible for a person who refuses to partake of communion in a setting that may not believe the same. "In as often as you do this do it in remembrance of Me" has probably been overlooked.
In defense, however, the Bible also says that if one is convicted by what he is eating or drinking than it is sin. So again, a catch 22. Where is the answer? Embracing freedom. How dissappointing it must be to the Lord that He purchased our freedom at such an aweful price yet once redeemed we seem to LOOK for chains to put BACK on... |
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| October 31, 2007 |
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I didn't invent the word, but I like it, too. It probably means something close to "Christ-centered". Still, don't you think that the word "Christ-centered" conjures up thoughts of something that we can figure out and then apply---sort of like the words "biblically based"? I prefer losing myself in the Person of Christ. It implies less control on my end and less dependency on my own knowledge of Him as opposed to Him drawing me into Who and whatever He is. Sadly, you are right about finding our freedom in Christ only to look for more chains. "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Having begun in the spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Doesn't this all ring a bell? |
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| November 01, 2007 |
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| I can hear it in perfect pitch Kat...I think...I know better yet that the Lord is not impressed by what we can impress others with...He judges the intentions of the heart and Iwant Him to have the King's seat there |
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| November 01, 2007 |
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| Perfect pitch? Okay, Patrick--I'll sing soprano. What part will you sing? :) I can hear us now... |
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| November 01, 2007 |
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| It seems like we have come to a point where everyone defines Jesus their own way. This comes from the fact that we have set the Bible aside or we make it say what we want it to say rather than seeking to "rightly divide the Word of truth." Granted, there will always be some things that Christians do not agree on, but if we are honestly seeking to develop our beliefs based on a right understanding of the authority and inerrancy of Scripture we can sit down and talk those things through. If we don't regard the Word, we will have a distorted view of Jesus and unity will never happen. When Paul called the ealry churches to unity, he urged them to turn away from false teaching and return to the truth of the Gospel. We can't unite around Jesus by setting the Bible aside - Jesus is the Word in flesh. You can't separate Jesus from the Word of God. |
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| November 02, 2007 |
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I think Jesus summed it up when He said, "...if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." Jesus perfectly reflected the Father and lived His life by His Father's nature so that others may see the Father in Jesus' living and behavior toward others. Now we have received the same Father's life and nature (in Spirit). Jesus was the LIVING testimony. The Bible is the "living" written testimony of God with lots of stories and examples to reveal God's heart. As Father's children, we too should be living by our Father's nature. How we live and relate with others will manifest who's life we are living by. Our oneness
and unity are in His Spirit. |
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| November 03, 2007 |
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| In other words, a tree is known by its fruit, ey? |
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| November 05, 2007 |
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Right on bro, you could also say a tree bears fruit after its own Kind. The kule thing about Christ's body on earth is that (in this case) it is made up of all kinds
of trees, but all from the same Source: all trees find their origin with the ONE unique
Tree of Life. |
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| November 10, 2007 |
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Hi Charlie
It is true that the body of Christ is One because in the presence of the Lord, all of our disputes, doctrines and opinions fade away into insignificance. However, as to loving a suffering world, rather than despising it, we ourselves must suffer. This is so, that by our stripes, they can be healed. It is more than this though. It is coming to a place in our walk of seeing that we are utterly bereft of love, except that is, self love. It takes the Holy Spirit to allow us to see our own self centredness and sheer inability to love anyone but ourselves.
All of this comes by very painful degrees and revelation. Once we are completely stripped of everything, THEN God can take away our hearts of stone and give us a heart of flesh, where any thought of self is a distant thing of the past. It takes many years. Think about this, when the scribe said to Christ, the second greatest commandment is "Love thy neighbour as thyself". This is a tall order!! He didn't know what he was saying!
I am not saying that I now know how to love my neighbour, I am just saying that I can admit to God and myself that I am bankrupt of love, except for myself. Self must die first, that God may love through us. This is also true concerning our love for God and for our brother. This is not a place to end, but a place to begin in newness of life. Then, hopefully, the world will know God's love through men of flesh and enter in to a life abundant.
Cam. |
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| December 01, 2007 |
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Well, it's been too long since I checked in..sorry about that. I said I would present a very real possible scenario about this. I'm thinkin it may lead to a blog later. I'm still cogitating over it, so maybe some of you can help me with it.
Thanks Cam for your comments. That has triggered my thinking again about how practical this must be. God wants to bring us to this place or reality, not just for our benefit, but for a testimony to the world and to His glory. |
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| February 17, 2008 |
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| You are right, my perspective does not project hope. Perhaps I should rephrase the title of the blog to something more positive. In reality, whether we see it or not, the body of Christ IS one. All who have received God's life ARE Family. I just wished we didn't have to live in so many separate houses, and use so many NON-Family names. |
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| February 17, 2008 |
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Another thought to ponder...speaking of family. As a family grows, it is normal due ot so many factors for the family members to live in different houses...but the tell tale sign of their family relationship is that they are always family regardless of whose house is being visited. It seems to so many Christians that you can only be recognized as my family if and while you are in my house.
My sister married some guy who "forced" her to change her name...but she is still my family regardless of what name is attached ot her. I am almost sure that is the way it SHOULD be with us...that if we are family, I should be able to visit your home and be as comfortable as if I was in mine and that I should be as comfortable with your different name because you are still born (and bought) of the same blood. |
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| February 28, 2008 |
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That's a very good point Haz. It just seems to me that the division among Christians is centered around "house." I would love to be able to travel from "house to house" and enjoy family where ever that might be. Someitmes I can/do. God's Spirit in us can transcend the house and center on the family.
It kind of reminds me of the mountain experience when Jesus was transfigured. Good ol' Peter wanted to build three "houses" (tabernacles). They were re-focused on ONE family. Jesus prayed that we might all be one, even as He and the Father are one. God answered Jesus' prayer. The life (re-born life) is in the blood. We be kin and we be one! PTL!! |
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| February 29, 2008 |
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Someitimes...what does that word mean...maybe ancient greek for "sometimes" just kidding. I have to agree unfortunately...my above proclamation is like a "that's life and this is Walgreens" commercial. But I will never stop striving to teach this principle to whatever echelon the Lord has placed around me. One that is worthy of reminding...we are to be one...and fight for that continually. Unity is worth fighting for...so to speak
What is PTL? |
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| February 29, 2008 |
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Eph. 4:3 says "...keep" the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. I think that word keep also means guard, protect, or preserve. Which says to me it's not fighting to gain something but endeavoring, striving, give great dilligence, even to make haste to keep/maintain the unity we already have. The other thing is that this should be done peacefully, not through strife or discord. I think you are right on bro.
"PTL = P raise T he L ord |
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| February 29, 2008 |
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Yeah, fighting to keep unity was a punn...that is like the old chick track aout the general screaming we want peace at any cost, and we will go to war to get it!
And to fight for peace was not supposed to mean like punch eachother or have anything to do btwn eachother but within ourselves for eachother...your words guard, preserve and of course teh Bibical "keep" are better said...leave no room for mormon interpretation (that was also a punn) |
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| April 29, 2008 |
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Hey Charlie, It's a nice thought to have but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Recently my wife and I have been collecting signitures to get an amendment on the Colorado constitution that basically says a person is a person no matter how small and no matter if they have left their mother's birth canal or not. This is a huge dividing line in the body of Christ. Some believers think it is more merciful to abort the child than to let it live (if not wanted), while others believe since God causes the child to begin forming in the womb, that He wants that child to live (regardless if it is wanted or not). So, life and death even among Christians is a huge dividing line. We have found this out close up and personal. R... |
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| April 29, 2008 |
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You are so right R. I'm so glad you and your wife are acting upon something that you feel is God's heart and will. We all have such liberty, but most want "church programs" to do it and then they can feel good about themselves by giving some money to that particular cause.
This is the wonderful thing about America. I'm afraid those liberties may not be here much longer. "Big Brother" is wanting to decide for us what we should think and do (for the common good of mankind).
Perhaps when that happens, Christians will come together, set aside their petty differences and be a light in the darkness for others. Persection seems to be what has revived the saints through out church history. |
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| April 29, 2008 |
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Hey Charlie, I want to comment on two things from your comment to me. 1. Churches and their programs. 2. Suffering brings believers together. I recently heard this story about some Christians who had written out their experiences during Nazi Germany, they said something like this. "We were in a tent one day having a revival meeting when a train pulled up near where we were. At first, when I heard the sounds I thought it was animals fighting or something I couldn't quite make it out. But as the music stopped and we prepared for another song, I realized what those sounds were." "The sounds were from people, cries of captive Jews inside those boxcars. Oh my God... I can't stand it, I didn't know what to do and neither did anyone else; and then the director yelled, "sing even louder," and we did nothing but sing until that train left. Not one person tried to do anything we did our best to just not focus our minds in the direction of that train." Six million Jews dead. And today?, a new holocaust is going on; 40 million babies torn apart in their mothers wombs... and still we sing. R... |
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| May 01, 2008 |
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| What can I say? How can anyone follow up on that!!? |
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| May 01, 2008 |
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| What can I say? How can anyone follow up on that!!? |
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