Pray4emmett
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||October 18, 2007 at 11:47am|email it|698 reads
 

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Trevor Sund
October 18, 2007 at 2:34pm
Thank you Jesus for speaking through Mike.
Deb
October 19, 2007 at 12:10pm
You wrote...I have found it to be true in my own life, the more I get to know Jesus, the more I desire to please Him.  The more time I spend with Him, the more I am willing to trust Him to take care of my problems, and the more I am willing to allow Him to work through my life.  I have found this to be true in my life as well.  And we have to work at it sometimes, because worldly things can come between us and life can get to hectic.  We have to make it a priority to spend time with Jesus.
R
October 21, 2007 at 4:59am

Hey Pray4emmett,

I was going to send you this comment in private, but see only signed on friends can do that. -  With all due respect, we differ a little bit.  And here are a few things:  Do we confuse flesh?  Was there a sinful nature = flesh, and is there this body of flesh?

Can we think about it in this way, that there were actually two parts flesh and one part according to the word (verse 6), was supernaturally crucified with Christ?

This being true... then only one flesh remains, and that is this body, which in and of itself, cannot carry out anything sinful... without receiving commands to do so. Example: a person in a coma or shows no brain activity, how can that person continue to sin?  Answer: They don't. -  Therefore, it becomes a matter of the mind and what we place it on.
 

Do we sit our mind on His facts, or on our experience and all the voices around us?  Do we believe God when He says we can reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to Him... or do we listen to the other voices that say we will sin again?

I think you are saying the opposite to what God says, concerning this. If we would reckon on the truth and do a brain wash on ourselves, God would show us how true this verse really is. Romans 6:11... is all the truth and answer we need for this experience to happen.

P.S. Chapter 7 is all about the law. The i-chapter, not the depend on God chapter. Oh yes we have all experienced doing it, but it is not the place we stay or dwell on. The answer is 6:11.

Pray4emmett
October 25, 2007 at 10:32am

R,

I had somewhat of a hard time following all that you were trying to say, and I wasn’t completely clear what exactly I said that you didn’t agree with. However, I will try to answer your concerns, maybe I can help you to understand what I meant or if it is a matter of semantics.

You wrote,
“I was going to send you this comment in private, but see only signed on friends can do that. -  With all due respect, we differ a little bit.  And here are a few things:  Do we confuse flesh?  Was there a sinful nature = flesh, and is there this body of flesh?

It is obvious that our physical body was not crucified with Jesus Christ, but when I speak of the flesh, or old nature that was crucified, I am speaking of the controlling aspect of the flesh in regards to our mind, or soul as the bible calls it.

Can we think about it in this way, that there were actually two parts flesh and one part according to the word (verse 6), was supernaturally crucified with Christ?

I don’t know that you can separate the two of them so cleanly, it is the flesh we carry around that use to dominate our lives, a body that has drives that once were motivated by a nature that was completely sinful. That controlling aspect of it has been nailed to the Cross. Now because I use to serve it, I have the tendency to continue to try and serve it, although instead of pleasure and thrill, I feel conviction and shame. The point is not that I won’t want to sin anymore, the point is that I can’t find the same pleasure in sin… Paul’s point is that we should account or reconcile our flesh to be dead unto sin, because Jesus took away it’s power.  Paul said to the Galatians, "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." Gal 2:20 & 21 He also told the Colossians to set their minds on things above not on things of the earth for we died and our life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:2 & 3. It is clear that Paul acknowledges that he still lives in the flesh but recognizes, by faith that it no longer has the power to rule him, so instead of worrying what the body needs or wants, I can set my mind or soul upon Christ or heaven. To realize that my life in hidden with Christ in God and I do not have to seek for my life here.

 

This being true... then only one flesh remains, and that is this body, which in and of itself, cannot carry out anything sinful... without receiving commands to do so. Example: a person in a coma or shows no brain activity, how can that person continue to sin?  Answer: They don't. -  Therefore, it becomes a matter of the mind and what we place it on.
 

I will agree with you that it is a battle of the mind, but I don’t think all body activity is driven by the mind. When my body is hungry, the entire system sends signals to the stomach and the stomach sends signals to the brain, then I (that is my soul or mind) decides what I want to do about it. Sin can be the same thing, maybe I remember how pleasurable it use to be to look at women in lust, chemicals are released within my body to produce a strong desire, craving sinful things or attitudes that are ungodly. I then have to decide whether or not I will partake in this activity. I decide in my mind if I want to meet my body’s demands. If I am brain dead, my body may well still send signals to my mind but being unable to carry them out they fall on deaf ears (metaphorically speaking). We must not forget that the brain is part of the body. Now that I am born again I also have been quickened in the spirit, something that was dead, but is now alive because Jesus gave me a new birth.  My spirit yearns for God and tells my mind to seek God, I then have a choice obey my spirit that is communing with God’s Spirit. Or serve my flesh.

I might be hungry and my blood sugar levels are low and I want to kill someone. I then am rude, and irritable because I am being driven by my body appetites, I yell at my wife, kick the dog, and swear at my son (all justified in my mind, because it is a chemical imbalance in my insulin levels.) But if I am walking in the Spirit, although all of the same body demands are there, I set my mind on Jesus who helps me to deny my flesh, change my mind, and be kind to my wife, walk around the dog and bless my son, all the time waiting patiently (a fruit of the Spirit) while I get food in my belly.

Do we sit our mind on His facts, or on our experience and all the voices around us?  Do we believe God when He says we can reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to Him... or do we listen to the other voices that say we will sin again?

I agree with you that our experiences have nothing to do with fact. However, when our experience in the things God tells us prove out just as He said they would, then our experiences are valid, in fact they are a testimony to the faithfulness and truth  of God’s word. I think you would be helped to read part 1 of this teaching. In that article I talked about Romans 6:11. Here I did not address the mechanics of it because I had already in the previous article.

I think you are saying the opposite to what God says, concerning this. If we would reckon on the truth and do a brain wash on ourselves, God would show us how true this verse really is. Romans 6:11... is all the truth and answer we need for this experience to happen.

If that were the case I don’t think Paul would have started verse 12 with “therefore” Paul using the rest of the chapter to tell us how we should respond to what he has said in chapter 6 so far, which subsequently was built upon the points he made in Chapters 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. It is a shame sometimes for this very reason that they put in verse numbers because it causes some to be caught on one verse rather than the context.

P.S. Chapter 7 is all about the law. The i-chapter, not the depend on God chapter. Oh yes we have all experienced doing it, but it is not the place we stay or dwell on. The answer is 6:11.

This is an interesting statement you make. I however, don’t think Paul separated it with the rest of the book. In chapters 1-3 he condemns all men in every walk of life. In chapters 3& 4 he shows us how we can only be justified by faith and not the works of the law. in 5 & 6 he shows how all are sinners who were born in Adam, and how Jesus has given us a new birth and conquered the old man. In chapter 7 he get practical and shows what it is like trying to live according to the law of the flesh, and the struggle between the old and new nature. Finally in chapter 8 he gives us the answer to living a life of victory and walking in the Spirit, that answer is Jesus, a person we must go to. I think we need everything Paul wrote in these chapters in order to completely understand it and allow Jesus to do the work in us. Jesus said “without me you can do nothing.” John 15:5b. I will conclude that we must look unto Him, the author and finisher of our faith.

As I said earlier, I had some difficulty understanding what you were trying to tell me in some places. So I interoperated it all based upon your statement that I was saying the opposite of what God says on this subject. Again it may have just been semantics, and if so I apologize and encourage you to reply. I spent the time on this because I feel it is so important that all of God’s children understand this. It is the difference between victory over sin and a very frustrating Christian life.

 

Blessings,

Pastor Mike

 

 

R
November 14, 2007 at 7:07pm
Hey Mike,

Sorry that my comment was harsh. It was just the way I took it... or read into it that day.  If you've ever read Watchman Nee's, "The Normal Christian Life," this follows what I have shared, though harshly, I admit.

Also, I want to boast that Rom.6:11 works, and it has been the only thing effective that has worked against sin. Here is to depending on God to back up and empower His word, when He tells us to reckon ourselves dead to sin. It works. R...   
Pray4emmett
November 16, 2007 at 9:12am

R,

Thanks for your comments. I doubt that you will find anything in my blog that disagree's with Watchman Nee and his book Normal Christian life. I have read this book as well as many others on this subject. 

You will find in Part 1 of this thread I delt with the death of the Christian's old man Romans 6. In this blog I gave some insights into helping us practically allow Christ to bury our old man, rather than struggle with the thought that I still am controlled by it.... as Paul talks about in Romans 7.  

My next blog will be the third and final part of the thread. It will deal with the subject of walking a life of victory and faith. Walking in the Spirit or abiding in Christ, obtaining promises and so on. Romans 8. If you haven't read part 1 yet you should go back and read it, I think it will help you to see where I am coming from, and see the emphasis on Romans 6:11 that you were looking for here.

Blessings,

 

Mike 

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