Eric
Eric's blog
Stars:121|Readers:17|RSS feed|View all entries
||October 24, 2007 at 2:49pm|email it|367 reads
 

To leave a comment or start your own blog: or Already a member? Login

JessIAm
October 24, 2007 at 3:39pm

I hope murder isn't unforgivable.  Romans 1 says we are all without excuse when it comes to rejecting God, since God has made Himself known through His creation (vs 18).  It also says, of the people who don't follow God, that they made a choice not to follow Him (vs 21).

Here's how this applies to me.  At some point, I decided to sin.  I knew about God, and on some level knew He would have to die for my sin (both the sinful action, and that I wanted to sin in the first place).  I sinned anyway.  If I knowingly commit an action that results in the death of another, that's murder.  If murder is unforgivable, then no one can be forgiven.  Ergo: murder is forgivable.

Scriptures I used:

Romans 1:18-21 (Amplified)
18  For God's [holy] wrath and indignation are revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who in their wickedness repress and hinder the truth and make it inoperative.
19  For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them.
20  For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],
21  Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.

JessIAm
October 24, 2007 at 3:45pm

That Jesus Christ died unreservedly for every single sin (past, present and future) of those people that are His.

I mostly agree with this.  Before you light the bonfire, let me explain.  Jesus did die for every single sin.  He also died for everything in me that wants to sin (the sinful nature, aka the flesh).  Thats why Romans 6 says we are dead to sin twice.  The first section that mentions it is, in my opinion, concerning the sinful nature (Rom 6:1-11).  The second section seems to be talking about sinful actions (Rom 6:12-23).

Eric
October 24, 2007 at 5:20pm
Awesome insight, Jess!  I hadn't thought of it like that before.  Jesus died for my sins AND for my sin nature!
JessIAm
October 24, 2007 at 5:47pm
He had to die for the sin nature, so it could die with Him.  I don't know about you, but my sin nature is rather active in its post mortem state.
Patrick Hazard
October 24, 2007 at 11:15pm
That is why it is to be a continual process...daily take up the cross...renew the mind...etc and romans chapter 7 starting at 13 and into chapter 8.

Anyways, Jesus Himself said that only blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven man...not wanting to go astray...but no, murder is not unforgivable.  But that necessitates another question.  What is the difference between forgiveness defined in human terms vs forgiveness defined in Jesus sacrifice...that is a good topic b/c many have no clue and seem only to repeat what has been told to them.

What say you??
Eric
October 25, 2007 at 2:50pm
3:29 [Jesus said,] but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" --

Actually, blaspheming the Holy Spirit came across my mind yesterday as I thought more on this topic, WebYouthPastor.  If I were to argue, I'd make a note that there are absolutely no conditionals at all attached to the atonement of sin.  It's always defined as "all sin."  This is remarkable, considering the extreme detail God goes into when dictating these things to Moses.  That leads me to conclude that those that blaspheme the Spirit are not "Israelites," or God's elect.  I could go further and speculate that, just as it is impossible for God to lie, it is impossible for God's elect to truly blaspheme the Spirit.  But I'm less sure about this conclusion.

I also realized that this topic touches on a hotly-debated doctrine within the Christian community today -- the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints.  Some disagree with this.  Sheesh.  That really complicates things!  Personally, I have difficulty imagining what it would be like to live without the assurance of my salvation.  There would be nothing to bank my hope on.  (Of course, I wouldn't use incredulity as a real argument.)  

Forgiveness in human terms versus forgiveness in Jesus' sacrifice?  When I forgive my neighbor, I don't generate in them a new spiritual heart.  When the Father applies the blood of the Son upon me, He forgives me of all my sins and I am regenerated anew.  But I think I'm missing what you're getting after.  Could you clarify what you're asking?

Jess, I see.  I think we're running into the problem with analogies.  Scripture says we have a sin nature, we were slaves to this nature, we died in Christ, we got a new righteous nature, now we're not slaves to our sin nature, the sin nature is still active (Rom 7, 2nd half), and we will be able to stand before God when we physically die, so supposedly we shed our sin nature when we shed our old body.  Also, I think Christ can die for our sin nature without our sin nature dying; seems reasonable to me.  At any rate, it's possible that Christ will die for our sin nature when we physically die, if you need Christ's death to slay our sin nature.  O.o  Confusing!

Patrick Hazard
October 26, 2007 at 11:34pm
Hey Eric, wan't realy getting after anything...more over just making the point that many Christians put impossible boundaries on what man's responsibility to forgive and therefor fails to meet the standard set that only the cross could do.  In english, man often mistakes forgiveness for redemtion and attempt to "forget" wrong doings assuming that means to forgive...and that is not only incorrect but impossible.

One would consider it foolish to allow a convicted pedafile to work in the childrens program even after receiving Christ.  Forgiveness means he has been restored to fellowship (upon walking through restoration) but his sin is never to be forgotten by us,,,we are to be vigilant in remebering...for his sake and for the sake of the congregation.  Only Christ can remit (absolve completely) a man's sin.  That is what I meant.

I think your close on target with the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit...do have some takes to consider.  I do not think it is possible for a real Christian (i hate to have to use the word real) to blaspheme the Holy Spirit either.
Patrick Hazard
October 26, 2007 at 11:35pm
remebering is the ancient greek form of the word for REMEMBERING
JessIAm
October 27, 2007 at 1:20pm
so supposedly we shed our sin nature when we shed our old body. 

The word that the NIV translates into "sin nature" is the greek word for "flesh", or "body".
More Posts from Eric
Most Popular Posts
 God is up to something...
Debate one-liners
God's justice: something to...
Next Posts
 What to do with old Bibles?
Baby Bibles!
Atheist Becomes Deist, Convi...
Previous Posts
 Scorecard for Comparative Re...
Giving the Gospel, One Soul ...
Having a Blast!

 
About | Sitemap | Tools | Advertising | Press | Private Networks | Ministries | Help | Terms & Privacy